PurpleWonderPower

Why I Hate MLP Season 8

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10 hours ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

You can't teach friendship in a school!

Quite the contrary. Some schools teach classes or tutor others on how to be friends with others or providing skills to become friends with others. This is an example. And in the Realm, the Magic of Friendship's the most powerful and important magic of them all. By teaching the magic of friendship to individuals near and far, they can spread diplomacy with other nations and tribes. Despite still learning, the RM7 have the experience to teach it now.

Also, to echo @Ganondox, social skills are taught in some schools. The School of Friendship is no exception. They're teaching them the concept of friendship and put it into practice.

10 hours ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

Plus, how the heck do the Mane 6 have time to teach at the School?

That's the advantage of being a cartoon without a set calendar. DHX is able to bend it so the Mane Eight can take part in the school and stay occupied with their other dominant jobs.

10 hours ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

The Mane 6 seem to have been replaced with Yona, Sandbar, Gallus, Silverstream, Smoulder and Ocellus.

  1. The RM7 haven't been replaced whatsoever. Even with new focus on the Young Six, they're not the main characters or the stars of the show. The FIM Movie specifically puts the RM7 as the mane characters of the movie and series, including having their likeness on the poster and cover art.
  2. We're delving into early-episode territory, so I'm spoilering the next bit:
    Spoiler

    Let's say the Young Six eventually succeed them. What Lies Beneath and School Raze heavily suggest that the Young Six will become the new Bearers of Harmony someday, courtesy of direct conversation with the Tree and auras representing who's currently carrying the Elements. The RM7's character growth is close to completion, and the show's gonna end soon. Because they learned so much, good and bad, over the years, it's likely they'll someday pass off their powers to eventual successors.

    The Young Six fit such a quality. After fighting early, they successfully overcame their differences, became friends, and returned to the School of Friendship to learn more. Over the semester, they learned a ton, both as leads and otherwise. The HW Club featured their first fight as friends, but they successfully overcame it and stood up for a friend who was at his lowest moment.

     

11 hours ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

It was bad enough in Season 7, when the show became from Starlight Glimmer's point of view instead of Twilight's

Starlight Glimmer joined the man cast to conclude Season 5, and the S6 team had a hard time properly executing her redemption arc. Season 7 rectified many of the problems she had in S6, including:

  1. Giving her a solid alibi to use her magic. In Every Little Thing, she turned to magic at the first possible outcome, making her desperation reason at the end flimsy. In All Bottled Up, she physically bottled up her magic to not upset Trixie, maintain their friendship, and control her temper.
  2. Being in appearances despite not having a lead role and often around the ReManeing cast. This made her a more inclusive part of the team and feel belonged in Ponyville as a whole.
  3. She became more sympathetic. Uncommon Bond and Shadow Play demonstrate that well, the latter formally completing Part 1 of her arc.
11 hours ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

but practically all the rest have been just terrible.

STRONGLY disagree. Out of every episode this season, the only episodes to truly suck are Non-Complete Clause and Fake It 'Til You Make It, the latter coming nowhere close to some of the worst episodes of previous years. Several episodes from the first half are excellent, especially Break Down. Rockhoof aired today in the U.S., and it's a top-ten of the series. The second half, as a whole, is very consistent with so many good episodes.

12 hours ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

Father Knows Beast 

Spoiler

was just an exact copy of Dragon Quest. I mean, the dialogue is practically identical. "Who I'm supposed to be." "What it means to be a dragon." "What I'm supposed to be doing." But what about in Dragon Quest, where Spike learns that who you are isn't the same as what you are, and he realized that Equestria was his home, and also knew exactly who he was supposed to be? 



Spoiler

Dragon Quest is one of the worst episodes of the series. In trying to make Spike realize he's his own identity, his friends say racist and sexist stereotypes of dragons, and not only does the episode side with them, but supports them and teaches them that message. In "understanding" his identity, he generalizes his race as a whole and implicates that living as a dragon is terrible compared to living like a pony. It's racist, xenophobic, and imperialistic.

Father Knows Beast fixes all of its problems, especially these three.

  1. There's a clear distinction between authentic representation of dragon culture and false pretense. Sludge uses Spike's naivete and lack of understanding of dragon culture to self-gain. OTOH, Smolder lived in the Dragon Lands, is friends with Spike, and thoroughly understands dragon culture. Generally, dragons aren't the most polite and masculine in nature, but greatly care for their kids. Guess who's written in the right.
  2. As mentioned previously, the ReMane Five mock Spike for being feminine in DQ. That doesn't happen here. They support Spike discovering their "father" and worked with him to get close to his "dad." Their biggest concern was Sludge using excuses to take advantage of him, not because of a prejudiced ideal of dragons being primitive. When Twilight tried to get involved, Spike plugged the racism accusation and was written in the wrong for it. That's why he apologized at the end.
  3. In DQ, rather than live up to her end of the deal with Dash, FS punts her in the stomach and cowers away. Here, she's not only unafraid of Sludge, but also actively helps him rehabilitate.

 

12 hours ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

Twilight Sparkle has, in Season 8, developed a nasty habit of making wild accusations at ponies, blaming them and punishing them for things they never did (e.g. the CMCs, the Young Six), and not even apologizing for it afterwards.

  1. The CMCs schemed, broke into the school, and nearly sabotaged Dash's class. Afterwards, Cozy manipulated the CMCs into helping her study for Twilight's exam, intentionally failed, and framed them to Twilight. When Starlight told Twi the truth, she de-blacklisted the CMCs and hired them as tutors.
  2. The vandal ran off into the student quarters, and there was no way out. Spike, Twi, and Dash knew who was left in the school and that one of the Young Six did it. All of the Young Six declaring innocence meant one of them was lying, and to the teachers, the others were covering up for them. They suspected Gallus vandalized the decorations, but waited for him to crack.
12 hours ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

this isn't the first time she's done it, given her appalling behaviour in What About Discord?

The episode went into that false "Twilight is jealous" trap, when Twilight has every reason to still believe Discord was up to no good. Twi doesn't like or trust him, and episodes like Return of Harmony (slowly broke her confidence and trust for her friends) and Three's a Crowd (led her and Cadance to a man-eating plant for self-amusement) support why. Additionally, her friends acted very suspiciously around her, and at the end, Discord admitted to intentionally scheming against her, nullifying the jealousy plot and marginalizing the moral it taught minutes earlier.

13 hours ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

Princess Celestia

There's a HUGE difference between Celestia in ARP and HP.

  1. In ARP, Celestia and Luna not only argued pettily, but also treated their other's jobs as meaningless. Their insults breached into personal levels, and their bitterness and arrogance continued throughout the episode. Celestia even commented in surprise that raising the moon was as easy as raising the sun, contradicting the fact that she rose and set the moon for a millennium while Luna was sealed.
  2. In Horse Play, Celestia had no idea how to properly act on a stage, but Twilight lied to her because she wanted so badly to make it work and treat this special occasion with the authenticity and respect it deserves. Celly's anger came from being disappointed in Twilight as a student and friend, because Twi failed in living up to her title. She has no problem with being told she stunk, but had a big problem in being lied to, even with the best of intentions in mind.

Also…

4 hours ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

Luna and Celestia's bickering in Slice of Life was pretty OOC too

Big difference here, too. Celly and Luna were miffed because they left the wedding presents back in Canterlot. The argument was on the material alone, didn't become personal, and they quickly made up.

14 hours ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

He has had not just one, but two different colours of OOC. The first one showed a little in Dungeons and Discords, then again, a great deal more, in The Break Up Breakdown.

One of Break Down's biggest strengths was how Discord behaved. The chemistry between he, Spike, and Big Mac was organic with a lot of fantastic lines. His romantic advice to Big Mac was terrible, but meant well. When he realized his mistake, he knew how to make it up his way: breaking Sugar Belle's wagon wheel to stall her as Big Mac ran to her and fix the mix up. He remained the Lord of Chaos while being his friend.

On top of that, the exchanges between him and Spike were comedy gold. They knew how to push each other's buttons without crossing the line. Like SG and Trixie in Road to Friendship, Discord and Spike act like long-time friends despite being sworn enemies till season 3.

16 hours ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

Flim and Flam are positive, enthusiastic showponies who, despite their deception, are actually really nice and good-natured.

I beg to differ. The Flim Flam Brothers live exactly by what they are: they're crooks. They sell a product too good to be true, only to actually scam the hell out of you without remorse.

  1. The Cider Squeezy 6000: claimed to sell efficient cider, only to be a terrible product after they beat the Apples.
  2. The tonic: an obvious placebo effect.
  3. FU: graduating with a college degree in only half the time, only to use their charges to expand their resort.

And there are antagonists whose reformation makes sense and otherwise. Flim & Flam don't deserve one. In Viva Las Pegasus, after Gladmane was exiled, they took over his enterprise, returning to the same scheming as before. If they're gonna go back to their old ways, then reforming them is not necessary.

17 hours ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

Flim and Flam have always been Applejack's personalnemesis!

After Viva Las Pegasus, not anymore. They hold no more animosity between each other. Their rivalry's closed.

Their Friendship U scheme has some conviction in it.

  1. As what they advertise, Ponyville's really far away and difficult to travel to. Having a new school close to them allows them to study friendship without having to spend nights there. For LP residents, they can commute by going to school.
  2. Many ponies there graduated and accelerated in the ranks, Star Swirl its most prized pupil.
  3. It got the trust of Neighsay, and he and the Flim Flam Brothers were able to manipulate the crowd by accusing her of monopolizing the teaching of friendship. Flim & Flam are cons behind the scenes, but publicly, they gained a really strong LP rep.
  4. Early-ep spoilers:
    Spoiler

    They picked up a pirated copy of Twilight's curriculum, courtesy of Cozy Glow. Because their cuurriculum's really strong, they give an impression to LP that they mean teaching friendship.

     

Lightning Dust doesn't deserve reformation, either. In Wonderbolts Academy, she showed no remorse for Dash hurting her wing, disrupting the other teams' routines, and accidentally nearly killing her friends. Each time Dash reminds her of how reckless she's being, Dust remains remorseless and acts like their near-deaths aren't a big deal. Throwing her out of The Wonderbolts was justified. In The Washouts, she not only remained unapologetic for the accident, but attributed it to beginning her daredevil career. And in the episode, she manipulated Scoot into convincing her to join the Washouts and helped divide her relationship with Dash.

17 hours ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

She was a really nice pony in the first half of Wonderbolts Academy.

Later on, she got jealous of Dash's academy record and dared Spitfire to increase the dizzitron's speed to one-up her. She didn't break it, but helped her become the lead of the Dust-Dash team, and that ego got in Dust's head, which made her more and more brazen in her recklessness. Dust is Dash without her morals.

17 hours ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

The CMCs - Surf and/or Turf

17 hours ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

The Cutie Map - Surf and/or Turf 

The Map's lore's tied to the Elements of Harmony, but there's no explicit lore of the Map being tied to only the Bearers. It can call anyone it sees fit and suspect the character(s) are able to use their strengths to complete their quests. The CMCs are no exception. The Map called them, because they can convince Terramar he doesn't have to make an all-or-nothing decision, but also help resolve the collateral damage his parents accidentally caused.

And, no, Twilight didn't solve it. When the CMCs let their biases get in the way, Twilight gave them advice. The CMCs put it into practice, and the problems were resolved.

18 hours ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

I detest the idea of Starlight Glimmer still having parents.

You're going into headcanon territory. Firelight was a latchkey parent to Starlight, because she was in the middle of her dark path that eventually transitioned into becoming a cult leader. He treats her like a five-year-old, because watching her grow up pained him, and he wanted to keep her safe, hence the security blanket and coddling. Like Sunburst, Starlight disowned her dad and wanted nothing to do with it. The Map forced them to return to Sire's Hollow and path things up.

18 hours ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

Injustice - The Mean 6

17 hours ago, Iam said:

P. S. going back to episode 13 of season 8 - how easily the Mane 6 was provocated by Mean 6 behaviours? And how they didn't recognise the greyish fur? It's just stupid, if you ask me.

From the get-go, the RM7 were anxious. Things went wrong at every corner, and each of them got on each others' nerves by accident. Dash questioning Twilight's idea of fun activities, Pinkie accidentally startling Fluttershy, Pinkie nearly punting Twi in the muzzle as she stared down at the checklist and running ahead, AJ loading Starlight with all her camping equipment, FS going off to rescue the bird without informing anyone, and so on. The Mean Six accidentally exacerbated the simmering tempers. Them not questioning the Mean's coats and personalities isn't that big of a deal because of the preceding events.

As for not discovering Chryssie and the Mean Six, that's not the point. The point is that friends sometimes say things they don't mean or get on each others' nerves. Close friends argue, sometimes to the point of being really upset, and have misunderstandings. What shows their close bonds is their ability to get past it. At the end, with everything that went wrong, their bond became tighter.

18 hours ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

I've loathed Starswirl ever since Shadow Play, first because of his dismission of friendship and "Once a villain, always a villain."

His reasoning is very believable.

  1. Star Swirl didn't understand how powerful the Magic of Friendship truly was. The Pillars' era was fraught with war and evil, so they couldn't keep their guard down. The light of the Realm comes as a result of the Tree's continuous maturation, the Magic of Friendship, the absence of evil, and Equestria's millennium-long evolution.
  2. Twilight made a very careless mistake of overlooking a key component released from limbo: Stygian. He was rightfully upset, because her oversight put Equestria in danger, and it's up to her to gain his trust for her.
  3. While they still fought evil, Stygian stole the Pillars' artifacts behind their backs. Everyone was upset at him for taking advantage of their trust and endangering the security that made Equestria safe from harm.
18 hours ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

In a nutshell, Season 8 bites beyond compare. 

Strongly disagree. Season 8 is one of the best seasons FIM ever had, and I argue that it's better than S7 (though not better than 5). Albeit a slow start, it got better after Grannies Gone Wild. Eight of the best this season are among the best of the show, including Rockoof, Surf, Breakdown, and Washouts. DHX under Haber and Dubuc looked at what went wrong in previous episodes, understood them, and (for the most part) created a more solid experience from beginning to end.

  • Brohoof 3
  • teacup 1

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Okay this is a really big one, I do agree that Twilight wasn't experienced enough to deal with Flim and Flam. Flim and Flam themselves didn't change, they just dug their own graves and got caught. I thought that Lightning Dust was decent, considering that it was her first and possibly the only come back in entire series. They've made Discord into insufferable jerk. I myself is not really a big fan of the idea of teaching friendship like a lecture in the class. Friendship is just happens or it doesn't. I do agree that Twilight did hijacked Rarity and Dash weekend and made it about the friendship lecture that no one asked.

Edited by R.D.Dash

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I watched most if not all s8. I liked it. Just like that.

Ok, so does my completely different opinion deserve to have me blocked?

Cause if you want or need to, that's fine.

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20 minutes ago, PCutter said:

I watched most if not all s8. I liked it. Just like that.

Ok, so does my completely different opinion deserve to have me blocked?

Cause if you want or need to, that's fine.

Why would you be blocked?

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2 minutes ago, Gainsborough said:

Why would you be blocked?

Quoting from my entry in the welcoming plaza " New here and very nervous about being online and talking to strangers."

Add to that I shut down everytime I'm around a volatile person, and such people badmouth me.

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Just now, PCutter said:

Quoting from my entry in the welcoming plaza " New here and very nervous about being online and talking to strangers."

Add to that I shut down everytime I'm around a volatile person, and such people badmouth me.

 

Ah, no worries.

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To be fair... Neighsay was completely in the right about Twilight school except for the racist comment. Everything else was completely on point. Then Celestial is all like... remember that time i said that you needed the EEA approval to open a school of friendship? jk  :please:

Edited by Kadeda

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I don't really hate season 8 is more to a school kind of thing but they still  teach about teamwork and all of that sort of stuff . princess twilight as a head mayor really taking those job seriously . 

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4 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

Quite the contrary. Some schools teach classes or tutor others on how to be friends with others or providing skills to become friends with others. This is an example. And in the Realm, the Magic of Friendship's the most powerful and important magic of them all. By teaching the magic of friendship to individuals near and far, they can spread diplomacy with other nations and tribes. Despite still learning, the RM7 have the experience to teach it now.

Also, to echo @Ganondox, social skills are taught in some schools. The School of Friendship is no exception. They're teaching them the concept of friendship and put it into practice.

That's the advantage of being a cartoon without a set calendar. DHX is able to bend it so the Mane Eight can take part in the school and stay occupied with their other dominant jobs.

  1. The RM7 haven't been replaced whatsoever. Even with new focus on the Young Six, they're not the main characters or the stars of the show. The FIM Movie specifically puts the RM7 as the mane characters of the movie and series, including having their likeness on the poster and cover art.
  2. We're delving into early-episode territory, so I'm spoilering the next bit:
      Reveal hidden contents

    Let's say the Young Six eventually succeed them. What Lies Beneath and School Raze heavily suggest that the Young Six will become the new Bearers of Harmony someday, courtesy of direct conversation with the Tree and auras representing who's currently carrying the Elements. The RM7's character growth is close to completion, and the show's gonna end soon. Because they learned so much, good and bad, over the years, it's likely they'll someday pass off their powers to eventual successors.

    The Young Six fit such a quality. After fighting early, they successfully overcame their differences, became friends, and returned to the School of Friendship to learn more. Over the semester, they learned a ton, both as leads and otherwise. The HW Club featured their first fight as friends, but they successfully overcame it and stood up for a friend who was at his lowest moment.

     

Starlight Glimmer joined the man cast to conclude Season 5, and the S6 team had a hard time properly executing her redemption arc. Season 7 rectified many of the problems she had in S6, including:

  1. Giving her a solid alibi to use her magic. In Every Little Thing, she turned to magic at the first possible outcome, making her desperation reason at the end flimsy. In All Bottled Up, she physically bottled up her magic to not upset Trixie, maintain their friendship, and control her temper.
  2. Being in appearances despite not having a lead role and often around the ReManeing cast. This made her a more inclusive part of the team and feel belonged in Ponyville as a whole.
  3. She became more sympathetic. Uncommon Bond and Shadow Play demonstrate that well, the latter formally completing Part 1 of her arc.

STRONGLY disagree. Out of every episode this season, the only episodes to truly suck are Non-Complete Clause and Fake It 'Til You Make It, the latter coming nowhere close to some of the worst episodes of previous years. Several episodes from the first half are excellent, especially Break Down. Rockhoof aired today in the U.S., and it's a top-ten of the series. The second half, as a whole, is very consistent with so many good episodes.

  Reveal hidden contents

Dragon Quest is one of the worst episodes of the series. In trying to make Spike realize he's his own identity, his friends say racist and sexist stereotypes of dragons, and not only does the episode side with them, but supports them and teaches them that message. In "understanding" his identity, he generalizes his race as a whole and implicates that living as a dragon is terrible compared to living like a pony. It's racist, xenophobic, and imperialistic.

Father Knows Beast fixes all of its problems, especially these three.

  1. There's a clear distinction between authentic representation of dragon culture and false pretense. Sludge uses Spike's naivete and lack of understanding of dragon culture to self-gain. OTOH, Smolder lived in the Dragon Lands, is friends with Spike, and thoroughly understands dragon culture. Generally, dragons aren't the most polite and masculine in nature, but greatly care for their kids. Guess who's written in the right.
  2. As mentioned previously, the ReMane Five mock Spike for being feminine in DQ. That doesn't happen here. They support Spike discovering their "father" and worked with him to get close to his "dad." Their biggest concern was Sludge using excuses to take advantage of him, not because of a prejudiced ideal of dragons being primitive. When Twilight tried to get involved, Spike plugged the racism accusation and was written in the wrong for it. That's why he apologized at the end.
  3. In DQ, rather than live up to her end of the deal with Dash, FS punts her in the stomach and cowers away. Here, she's not only unafraid of Sludge, but also actively helps him rehabilitate.

 

  1. The CMCs schemed, broke into the school, and nearly sabotaged Dash's class. Afterwards, Cozy manipulated the CMCs into helping her study for Twilight's exam, intentionally failed, and framed them to Twilight. When Starlight told Twi the truth, she de-blacklisted the CMCs and hired them as tutors.
  2. The vandal ran off into the student quarters, and there was no way out. Spike, Twi, and Dash knew who was left in the school and that one of the Young Six did it. All of the Young Six declaring innocence meant one of them was lying, and to the teachers, the others were covering up for them. They suspected Gallus vandalized the decorations, but waited for him to crack.

The episode went into that false "Twilight is jealous" trap, when Twilight has every reason to still believe Discord was up to no good. Twi doesn't like or trust him, and episodes like Return of Harmony (slowly broke her confidence and trust for her friends) and Three's a Crowd (led her and Cadance to a man-eating plant for self-amusement) support why. Additionally, her friends acted very suspiciously around her, and at the end, Discord admitted to intentionally scheming against her, nullifying the jealousy plot and marginalizing the moral it taught minutes earlier.

There's a HUGE difference between Celestia in ARP and HP.

  1. In ARP, Celestia and Luna not only argued pettily, but also treated their other's jobs as meaningless. Their insults breached into personal levels, and their bitterness and arrogance continued throughout the episode. Celestia even commented in surprise that raising the moon was as easy as raising the sun, contradicting the fact that she rose and set the moon for a millennium while Luna was sealed.
  2. In Horse Play, Celestia had no idea how to properly act on a stage, but Twilight lied to her because she wanted so badly to make it work and treat this special occasion with the authenticity and respect it deserves. Celly's anger came from being disappointed in Twilight as a student and friend, because Twi failed in living up to her title. She has no problem with being told she stunk, but had a big problem in being lied to, even with the best of intentions in mind.

Also…

Big difference here, too. Celly and Luna were miffed because they left the wedding presents back in Canterlot. The argument was on the material alone, didn't become personal, and they quickly made up.

One of Break Down's biggest strengths was how Discord behaved. The chemistry between he, Spike, and Big Mac was organic with a lot of fantastic lines. His romantic advice to Big Mac was terrible, but meant well. When he realized his mistake, he knew how to make it up his way: breaking Sugar Belle's wagon wheel to stall her as Big Mac ran to her and fix the mix up. He remained the Lord of Chaos while being his friend.

On top of that, the exchanges between him and Spike were comedy gold. They knew how to push each other's buttons without crossing the line. Like SG and Trixie in Road to Friendship, Discord and Spike act like long-time friends despite being sworn enemies till season 3.

I beg to differ. The Flim Flam Brothers live exactly by what they are: they're crooks. They sell a product too good to be true, only to actually scam the hell out of you without remorse.

  1. The Cider Squeezy 6000: claimed to sell efficient cider, only to be a terrible product after they beat the Apples.
  2. The tonic: an obvious placebo effect.
  3. FU: graduating with a college degree in only half the time, only to use their charges to expand their resort.

And there are antagonists whose reformation makes sense and otherwise. Flim & Flam don't deserve one. In Viva Las Pegasus, after Gladmane was exiled, they took over his enterprise, returning to the same scheming as before. If they're gonna go back to their old ways, then reforming them is not necessary.

After Viva Las Pegasus, not anymore. They hold no more animosity between each other. Their rivalry's closed.

Their Friendship U scheme has some conviction in it.

  1. As what they advertise, Ponyville's really far away and difficult to travel to. Having a new school close to them allows them to study friendship without having to spend nights there. For LP residents, they can commute by going to school.
  2. Many ponies there graduated and accelerated in the ranks, Star Swirl its most prized pupil.
  3. It got the trust of Neighsay, and he and the Flim Flam Brothers were able to manipulate the crowd by accusing her of monopolizing the teaching of friendship. Flim & Flam are cons behind the scenes, but publicly, they gained a really strong LP rep.
  4. Early-ep spoilers:
      Reveal hidden contents

    They picked up a pirated copy of Twilight's curriculum, courtesy of Cozy Glow. Because their cuurriculum's really strong, they give an impression to LP that they mean teaching friendship.

     

Lightning Dust doesn't deserve reformation, either. In Wonderbolts Academy, she showed no remorse for Dash hurting her wing, disrupting the other teams' routines, and accidentally nearly killing her friends. Each time Dash reminds her of how reckless she's being, Dust remains remorseless and acts like their near-deaths aren't a big deal. Throwing her out of The Wonderbolts was justified. In The Washouts, she not only remained unapologetic for the accident, but attributed it to beginning her daredevil career. And in the episode, she manipulated Scoot into convincing her to join the Washouts and helped divide her relationship with Dash.

Later on, she got jealous of Dash's academy record and dared Spitfire to increase the dizzitron's speed to one-up her. She didn't break it, but helped her become the lead of the Dust-Dash team, and that ego got in Dust's head, which made her more and more brazen in her recklessness. Dust is Dash without her morals.

The Map's lore's tied to the Elements of Harmony, but there's no explicit lore of the Map being tied to only the Bearers. It can call anyone it sees fit and suspect the character(s) are able to use their strengths to complete their quests. The CMCs are no exception. The Map called them, because they can convince Terramar he doesn't have to make an all-or-nothing decision, but also help resolve the collateral damage his parents accidentally caused.

And, no, Twilight didn't solve it. When the CMCs let their biases get in the way, Twilight gave them advice. The CMCs put it into practice, and the problems were resolved.

You're going into headcanon territory. Firelight was a latchkey parent to Starlight, because she was in the middle of her dark path that eventually transitioned into becoming a cult leader. He treats her like a five-year-old, because watching her grow up pained him, and he wanted to keep her safe, hence the security blanket and coddling. Like Sunburst, Starlight disowned her dad and wanted nothing to do with it. The Map forced them to return to Sire's Hollow and path things up.

From the get-go, the RM7 were anxious. Things went wrong at every corner, and each of them got on each others' nerves by accident. Dash questioning Twilight's idea of fun activities, Pinkie accidentally startling Fluttershy, Pinkie nearly punting Twi in the muzzle as she stared down at the checklist and running ahead, AJ loading Starlight with all her camping equipment, FS going off to rescue the bird without informing anyone, and so on. The Mean Six accidentally exacerbated the simmering tempers. Them not questioning the Mean's coats and personalities isn't that big of a deal because of the preceding events.

As for not discovering Chryssie and the Mean Six, that's not the point. The point is that friends sometimes say things they don't mean or get on each others' nerves. Close friends argue, sometimes to the point of being really upset, and have misunderstandings. What shows their close bonds is their ability to get past it. At the end, with everything that went wrong, their bond became tighter.

His reasoning is very believable.

  1. Star Swirl didn't understand how powerful the Magic of Friendship truly was. The Pillars' era was fraught with war and evil, so they couldn't keep their guard down. The light of the Realm comes as a result of the Tree's continuous maturation, the Magic of Friendship, the absence of evil, and Equestria's millennium-long evolution.
  2. Twilight made a very careless mistake of overlooking a key component released from limbo: Stygian. He was rightfully upset, because her oversight put Equestria in danger, and it's up to her to gain his trust for her.
  3. While they still fought evil, Stygian stole the Pillars' artifacts behind their backs. Everyone was upset at him for taking advantage of their trust and endangering the security that made Equestria safe from harm.

Strongly disagree. Season 8 is one of the best seasons FIM ever had, and I argue that it's better than S7 (though not better than 5). Albeit a slow start, it got better after Grannies Gone Wild. Eight of the best this season are among the best of the show, including Rockoof, Surf, Breakdown, and Washouts. DHX under Haber and Dubuc looked at what went wrong in previous episodes, understood them, and (for the most part) created a more solid experience from beginning to end.

Flim and Flam showed no interest in cheating ponies at the end of Viva Las Pegasus, they just took ownership of the resort, and Lightning Dust and Rainbow Dash weren't trying to one-up each other, they were friends. And I thought that Trixie, Starlight Glimmer, Gilda, Diamond Tiara, Discord and Nightmare Moon didn't deserve a redemption, but I was glad when they did. Flim and Flam and Lightning Dust are actually ahead, because Lightning Dust was one Dash's friend, and Flim and Flam teamed up with AJ and Fluttershy. So they should definitely be reformed.

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@Dark Qiviut

You made a very strong counterarguement and I'm impressed. Considering I earlier pointed out learning friendship skills while in school via group therapy, I'm very inclined to agree with you. And I also agree with your points about Celestia being less than perfect and Father Knows Beast being a huge improvement over Dragon Quest which had a potential set-up wasted.

Well done.

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Just now, Willusion said:

@Dark Qiviut

You made a very strong counterarguement and I'm impressed. Considering I earlier pointed out learning friendship skills while in school via group therapy, I'm very inclined to agree with you. And I also agree with your points about Celestia being less than perfect and Father Knows Beast being a huge improvement over Dragon Quest which had a potential set-up wasted.

Well done.

Dragon Quest was a million times better than Father Knows Beast. D.Q. had a really interesting and brand new plot. F.N.B was just boring, repetitive and way too predictable.

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8 hours ago, starlightfan1 said:

Yea I noticed Fluttershy has been shoved into the background again this season only this time it’s worst than season 6 this season she only had 2 episodes. While I’m Season 6 she hadn’t 3 episodes. So at least they cared more about her in seaosn 6 than in season 8. Another thing I like about season 6. Season 6 is probably my favorite season. I hope Fluttershy appears more and has more lines than any of the mane 6 next season she does more love. 

Season 6 is my second favourite season after Season 4, although Viva Las Pegasus is my favourite episode, and it is a Season 6 episode.

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15 minutes ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

Dragon Quest was a million times better than Father Knows Beast. D.Q. had a really interesting and brand new plot. F.N.B was just boring, repetitive and way too predictable.

Again that is an opinion of what YOU think of the episode, not a fact that everyone must agree with.

Just because you point out facts, that does NOT make you immune to criticism and counter-arguements. 

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4 minutes ago, Willusion said:

Again that is an opinion of what YOU think of the episode, not a fact that everyone must agree with.

Just because you point out facts, that does NOT make you immune to criticism and counter-arguements. 

I know, I never said it was. I never said everyone must agree with my opinions, I just said mine. Just like you said yours. I could very easily say the same thing to you. Problem?

Edited by PurpleWonderPower

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1 minute ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

I know, I never said it was. I never said everyone must agree with my opinions, I just said mine. Just like you said yours. Problem?

Earlier, you said in your opening posts like they were facts! Sorry, but that's how your OP came off to me and I already said I am done here. I stated my points about how perfection is close to impossible since everything has flaws.

Have a nice day, Madame.

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17 minutes ago, Willusion said:

Earlier, you said in your opening posts like they were facts! Sorry, but that's how your OP came off to me and I already said I am done here. I stated my points about how perfection is close to impossible since everything has flaws.

Have a nice day, Madame.

I didn't say everything was facts, just some of them were. My opinion on Spike's wings, and how the episodes were really bad, were my opinions. Things like how characters don't act like themselves, and how a school of friendship contradicts the whole idea of the series, are facts. For instance, if Rainbow Dash started talking in a high country accent using "darned tootin'" and "ain't" and "plum tuckered", that would be a straight fact that Rainbow Dash's voice and vocabulary are not right, because that is not how Rainbow Dash is supposed to talk.

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Dark Qiviut provided stronger points in my eyes.

Your points are still a good attempt nonetheless.

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6 minutes ago, Willusion said:

Dark Qiviut provided stronger points in my eyes.

Your points are still a good attempt nonetheless.

I'll take what I can get.

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3 hours ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

Flim and Flam showed no interest in cheating ponies at the end of Viva Las Pegasus, they just took ownership of the resort, and Lightning Dust and Rainbow Dash weren't trying to one-up each other, they were friends. And I thought that Trixie, Starlight Glimmer, Gilda, Diamond Tiara, Discord and Nightmare Moon didn't deserve a redemption, but I was glad when they did. Flim and Flam and Lightning Dust are actually ahead, because Lightning Dust was one Dash's friend, and Flim and Flam teamed up with AJ and Fluttershy. So they should definitely be reformed.

Ah but for characters there two sides to the coin of reformation will it help the ones offering the chance to change (gaining a friend as you like it) AND does the reformee benefit from this change both externally and internally? That is where F&F and LD differ from every other character you've mentioned. There is nothing presented to be satisfied in their eyes.

Flim and Flam are business ponies and they work best when they're in control. When they took control at the end of Viva Las Pegasus there was no talk in them being better, they only wanted to take away the damage caused by Gladmane mostly because they were victims as well and in a sense they have. Under their control LP is a nicer place to stay and work in and in Friendship U that sentiment is no different. For Twilight there is nothing wrong with using her lessons to teach ponies of LP and there is nothing inherently wrong with charging for lessons but embezzling under false pretenses is an issue but it is not one you can be reformed from. It is a mistake you make and the only solution is to clean up the act or drop it. They chose the latter with the mindset of finding another way to fund their expansion plan, that is also not inherently wrong.

Lightning Dust is an even simpler example because the fact is she isn't doing anything wrong in her eyes and the publics. What specifically are you wanting to be reformed for her? To regret her decisions and be a Wonderbolt again? Why would she do that when being a Washout is so much more appealing to her and Equestria. There is nothing wrong with being a Washout, there is nothing wrong with the dangerous stunts she's pulling because we've demonstrated that she and her team are actually good at them. The only thing she did wrong was force Scootaloo to perform and that's only of the result of her own ego. There is no reason to physically change just maybe regret the decision of having Scootaloo on the team. It never said the Washout's lost their reputation in Equestria, so the biggest thing she's going to take away from this is: "Stupid, kid ruining MY stunt!" "Well maybe ya' should've given the kiddiewink a little easier of stunt to start with" "True" "Eh, who needs her besides leave the dangerous stunts to us we can handle them. AAGH, THERE'S A DENT IN THIS HELMET IT'LL TAKE DAYS TO EVEN THIS OUT!" "You're right, our team is still amazing and we're not going to let this mistep ruin what we have made; you haven't ruined me yet Dash."

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1 hour ago, KH7672 said:

Ah but for characters there two sides to the coin of reformation will it help the ones offering the chance to change (gaining a friend as you like it) AND does the reformee benefit from this change both externally and internally? That is where F&F and LD differ from every other character you've mentioned. There is nothing presented to be satisfied in their eyes.

Flim and Flam are business ponies and they work best when they're in control. When they took control at the end of Viva Las Pegasus there was no talk in them being better, they only wanted to take away the damage caused by Gladmane mostly because they were victims as well and in a sense they have. Under their control LP is a nicer place to stay and work in and in Friendship U that sentiment is no different. For Twilight there is nothing wrong with using her lessons to teach ponies of LP and there is nothing inherently wrong with charging for lessons but embezzling under false pretenses is an issue but it is not one you can be reformed from. It is a mistake you make and the only solution is to clean up the act or drop it. They chose the latter with the mindset of finding another way to fund their expansion plan, that is also not inherently wrong.

Lightning Dust is an even simpler example because the fact is she isn't doing anything wrong in her eyes and the publics. What specifically are you wanting to be reformed for her? To regret her decisions and be a Wonderbolt again? Why would she do that when being a Washout is so much more appealing to her and Equestria. There is nothing wrong with being a Washout, there is nothing wrong with the dangerous stunts she's pulling because we've demonstrated that she and her team are actually good at them. The only thing she did wrong was force Scootaloo to perform and that's only of the result of her own ego. There is no reason to physically change just maybe regret the decision of having Scootaloo on the team. It never said the Washout's lost their reputation in Equestria, so the biggest thing she's going to take away from this is: "Stupid, kid ruining MY stunt!" "Well maybe ya' should've given the kiddiewink a little easier of stunt to start with" "True" "Eh, who needs her besides leave the dangerous stunts to us we can handle them. AAGH, THERE'S A DENT IN THIS HELMET IT'LL TAKE DAYS TO EVEN THIS OUT!" "You're right, our team is still amazing and we're not going to let this mistep ruin what we have made; you haven't ruined me yet Dash."

But what I'm saying is that Friendship University and the Washouts shouldn't have been. Flim and Flam would never have treated Twilight so cruelly, or done anything like blackmail. After Viva Las Pegaus, they are obviously characters who should be reformed, and Friendship University didn't tally with past episodes. And about Lightning Dust, she isn't just an antagonist, she is a former friend. Mlp is never a show about losing friends, it's about making friends and rekindling old friendships. If there's ONE antagonist in the show who should be reformed, it's her. There should have been a completely different episode in the place of Friendship University, since it's just so not something Flim and Flam would ever do, and The Washouts should have ended with Lightning Dust's reformation.

And both Lightning Dust and Flim and Flam would certainly be better characters and benefit from reforming, because making friends and learning how to be better ponies is what MLP is all about. Look at Gilda, or Starlight, or Trixie, or Sunset Shimmer.

Edited by PurpleWonderPower

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I hated Season 8 mostly because it gave Pinkie Pie her lowest number of appearances in one whole season to date. Fluttershy also didn't do a lot this season. Also, too many Rainbow Dash episodes, and more Spike episodes than how many he usually gets per season. Season 9 better be good to the two cute pink-haired ponies and there also should be NO combo episodes for any of the Remane Four.

Edited by FirePuppy

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While you bring up some valid points, I have to say that I disagree with your take on Season 8.

Though it isn't as narratively focused as Season 4, or as consistent in quality as Season 7, I'd say it's about on par with 5 and 6 , in a good way.

I can only really think of two episodes that were flat out awful:

• Non-Compete Clause 

• Yakkitty Sax

There are plenty of episodes that were still very good or flat out gems:

• Surf and/or Turf

• Horse Play 

• The Break Up Breakdown 

•  Molt Down

• The Hearth's Warming Club

• On The Road to Friendship 

• The Washouts

• A Rockhoof and A Hard Place 

• What Lies Beneath 

• Sounds of Silence

There's episodes that are good/decent:

• Grannies Gone Wild

• The Mean 6

• School Daze

• School Raze

• Father Knows Beast

• Friendship University 

The rest are just okay, but that's still a good track record overall than Seasons 1,2, and even 3.

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I used to eat at a diner that had the best food around, especially their desserts. I ate there for years. Then one day I ate a piece of pie that wasn't quite as good as it normally was.

I threw the pie into the waitress's face and told the owner this was literally the worse place I had ever been to, worse than a North Korean prison camp. I vowed to never return because my life was ruined.

Oh yeah, and MLP season 8.

  • Brohoof 6
  • Shocked 1
  • Smile 1

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2 hours ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

But what I'm saying is that Friendship University and the Washouts shouldn't have been. Flim and Flam would never have treated Twilight so cruelly, or done anything like blackmail. After Viva Las Pegaus, they are obviously characters who should be reformed, and Friendship University didn't tally with past episodes.

I'm not certain where you're getting this characterization. This is the final exchange of Viva Las Pegasus:

Quote
Applejack: And if it weren't for you wantin' to show even those two con-ponies kindness, we never would have been able to trick the trickster. [to Flim and Flam] Must've felt pretty nice to finally put all your connivin' and cheatin' skills to good use.
Flam: In fact, we might think of it as a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.
Flim: Emphasis on "once".
Fluttershy: [suspiciously] What do you mean?
Flam: [over loudspeaker] While this establishment undergoes a slight change in management, my brother and I want to assure you that it remains the pinnacle of Las Pegasus entertainment! Which is why we invite each and every one of you to experience the wonder of the Ponet Fantastique Theater – at half the normal cost of admission!
Flim: [over loudspeaker] And while you're appreciating this historic venue totally devoid of any performers of any kind, we invite you to use the wonder of your own imaginations to fill the space at no additional charge!
[crowd excited chattering]
Applejack: Flim and Flam!

Applejack is complementing them on their conniving and cheating characterization there is nothing there about putting it behind them especially when they quite literally scam ponies to come watch a show with no performers because all their focus is on the price. That is exactly the scam they run in Friendship U give ponies the main draw but slide a little monetary payment under their noses. They are business ponies to the end and proud of their tactics because when they put them to use with little to no interference there is nothing wanting them to change. So reforming them does nothing, all they need is a kick to keep their scheming in line but no story has ever made them feel like the bad guys to themselves, because again this comes down to what I said before with the character themself needing to benefit from such a reformation. Friendship U didn't ruin Flim & Flam's reputation it just impeded some expansion progres they most likely scalp from casinos and hotels now a more civil approach since the school market is off the line. They have no internal desire to change, so reforming them does nothing.

If you want to talk about what they should have been, that's a subjective opinion on your expectations for the episode and in some cases yours can be better by how you see the characters. But objectively there was nothing wrong with the outcome because of how they have been characterized.

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On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 11:39 AM, Totally Totally said:

Main thing is, I agree completely that season 8 killed the show.

The show died as soon as McCarthy, Larson, and Rodgers (later Lewis/Songco) left the show.

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