S09:E01+E02 - The Beginning of the End

[ManaMinori 4,145]

Season 1- Nightmare Moon breaks the elements in front of Twilight 

Twi: doesn’t panic. Me and my friends are the spirits of the elements! 

 

Season 9- Sombra breaks the elements and tree. 

Twi:  BSOD

48 minutes ago, Yfus said:

I felt that Celestia didn't really want to retire, but i fell into a theory Twilight is a new queen.

I have no idea, how Twilight is supposed to rule, when she doesn't even know how to control the sun and moon. She also needs to stop twilighting.

Yeah she needs to stop Twilighting had before being given any governmental position. Maybe give her an episode with Mayor Mare to get her used to seeing how such positions are handled by her.

[JH24 385]

4 hours ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

Season 1- Nightmare Moon breaks the elements in front of Twilight 

Twi: doesn’t panic. Me and my friends are the spirits of the elements! 

 

Season 9- Sombra breaks the elements and tree. 

Twi:  BSOD

It can be argued that Twilight and the others had become too complacent and dependent on the Elements over time. ("You've lost sight of what's in front of you")

Edited April 7, 2019 by JH24

[oregon 170]

30 minutes ago, Nye said:

This episode was awesome! Though I'm upset about one thing.

  Hide contents

Why did Sombra have to die? He was so cool.

 

It’s rated Y. He didn’t die. He was destroyed!

[Solar Power 295]

"Equestria is enjoying its longest period of harmony in years"

I think Luna and Celestia need to rewatch the last eight seasons.

[BastementSparkle 20,326]

32 minutes ago, Solar Power said:

"Equestria is enjoying its longest period of harmony in years"

I think Luna and Celestia need to rewatch the last eight seasons. 

Or maybe the last 8 seasons are what they'd call Harmony.

In which case, I'm slightly scared to see what exactly they'd call Disharmony.

[n1029 227]

48 minutes ago, oregon said:

It’s rated Y. He didn’t die. He was destroyed!

And he may not be really gone anyway. 

[Mirage 24,747]

After some more thought, I think the most recent creators are the one's that are really afraid. They are the ones who 'twilight' over the content and what they should do next.

The foundations were already laid - all they had to do was remain faithful to the vision created by LF and others. The problem is that they have slowly been making the show into something else, which has been causing some intentional and unintentional contradictions and out of character reactions.

1) villains. Nightmare Moon, for example, was not slapstick. Tirek and Sombra were totally serious business too. They were created as real villains with a dangerous purpose to respect and fear. They had a goal, named their obstacle, and did all they could to attain it - often at the expense of others. They were powerful and the ponies feared them more than anything. Now, the villains are the he-haw of the show and the ponies are afraid of themselves (how do we do this?).

2) Inner darkness.

We likely won't see anything like this...

The profound awakening to inner struggles seems to be gone as well. Coming to terms with the truth about serious emotional and intellectual problems are scary. There are surface conflicts, yes, but the main protagonists are never really challenged to the point of breaking anymore. It's 'safe' writing, and it doesn't satisfy people over the age of 12.

Don't get me wrong - I still enjoy the show. But I think the new creators have been waging their finger at challenging, bold storytelling that MLP used to carve new ground with.

 

Edited April 7, 2019 by Mirage

[Sovereign Leader Rarity 12,006]

Pretty good episode all things considered. The premise was entertaining to witness unfold, and   it had to juggle a great many balls at once, which I appreciate.

That said, and I do believe this to be an issue with quite a few of the newer two-part episodes, while I thought that the story-telling was arguably more coherent here than in most of the other episodes resembling it, I will admit that I found the whole endeavour somewhat lacking in impact.

Take the villain(s), for example. I really didn’t care for Sombra when he first appeared all the way back in Season 3, due to a lack of backstory, screen time and his uninspired personality and design. That said, and this is probably the nicest praise that I will ever give the Mr. Sombrero, he definitely had a menacing presence. Not enough for me to forgive all of his shortcomings, but at the very least it was something. Here, Sombra gets a great deal more screen time, as well as lines. And while I think that his new voice is to DIE for, and I kind of enjoy the cocky, over-confident and self-assured personality that they gave him this time around, he was still a pretty weak villain overall, still remaining as a very two-dimensional antagonist, as well as lacking any real intimidation this time, in my opinion. All in all, I did prefer his characterisation in this episode, versus his first one, but ultimately I think that his role could have been filled by anyone. All of this is made more apparent with the knowledge that he isn’t even really the main evil at work, with G1 classic villain Grogar finally making his long-awaited debut.

Expanding on this point, Grogar is a pretty “meh” antagonist in his first appearance. I’m sure that his threat level will ascend as the season progresses and I hope that we see him undertake in some seriously nefarious, sinister activity  before the inetivable final battle with him and his army arrives, but as far as his premier is concerned, his design is fairly unthreatening, and the writers kind of expect you take him as this gigantic Code Level Omega evil, by simply TELLING you what he’s done in the past, which doesn’t really work in this context, or any other.

Alright, I didn’t expect this “review” to go so in depth, I wanted to keep it brief. I just find the villains the most enjoyable aspects to talk about with these sorts of episodes. And given the last two paragraphs, it probably sounds like I hated this episode, but that’s seriously not accurate. It had weak facets, but it had powerful ones as well. The ending, the final climax in the throne room, I thought was particularly convincing, and I did like how Grogar neglected to revive Sombra again, as a threat to the other villains, emphasising his no nonsense attitude towards reaching his goals. Also, in spite of her limited screen presence in this episode, I am progressively, but definitely considering becoming a full-time member of Team Cozy Glow, who’s really going to be an enjoyable character to watch going forward, I think.

So, all things considered, definitely not the best two-parter, but also far from the worst. If I had to give it a numerical score, I’d probably give a 7/10. Keep in mind that I’ve only seen it once thus far, so that opinion is subject to change, rise, fall in the future.

[MangoFoalix 24,944]

2 hours ago, oregon said:

It’s rated Y. He didn’t die. He was destroyed!

Vaporized is more like it.

[Sonic5421 423]

For the final season premiere for the series, the staff were not kidding about this being the best they saved for last. Not only do we see the debut of Grogar, with some possible continuity to his previous incarnation, but he attempts to form his own Legion of Doom in all the villains that haven't reformed and made peace with the ponies yet, including Lord Tirek, Chrysalis, Cozy Glow, and using a little necromancy to bring back King Sombra.

However, Sombra decided to try and go it alone, and Grogar granted it, knowing full well Sombra would be a good example to the other villains as to what their fate would be if they chose not to follow Grogar in his plan to take over Equestria once and for all.

Plus, while we heard Flurry Heart in mostly gurgles and babbling before, I think this is the first time we hear her actually say something as she called out for Cadence, her mom, as she was held in Sombra's grip.

Still, to see Sombra let himself be defeated so he could trail the Mane Six back to the Castle of the Two Sisters and destroy the Tree and Elements of Harmony seemed pretty smart for him to do. And due to the link the Tree had with the Pillars, Star Swirl sensed when it was destroyed, treating it like a part of him died with the Tree's destruction. Yet, he still managed to fight off the Everfree Forest with Celestia and Luna while the Mane Six went to Canterlot, took out Sombra once and for all, and freed Canterlot, Ponyville, and all their friends and family from his control, leaving Grogar able to bring Tirek, Chrysalis, and Cozy into line as a result, paving the way for the rest of Season 9.

As for the Royal Sisters, glad they will be staying on the throne for a little bit longer before handing the reigns over to Twilight to bring the series to an end.

Amazing season premiere, so it gets a 9.5, maybe a full 10/10 from me as my rating.

[SeaSpray 22]

Comparing it to previous seasons (particularly the high-quality episodes in the Season 2 premiere), it seems like the Season 9 premiere's script writers Joanna Lewis and Kristine Songco treated episodes 1 and 2 like some random kids Saturday cartoon fling. 

I thought the script didn't show what makes MLP G4 stand out - it seemed like now it's become another forgettable show.

Were there really any new emotive insights, did the characters develop or were they stuck in a one-dimension? There were a few very small funny moments, but after watching and re-watching the episodes there was nothing really there.

When the antagonists do their manic laughter routine and the story plods along in a seemingly random direction - I was asking myself whether the show really should be ending in Season 9 because the show creators are REALLY struggling to form new ideas.

In the music department, it feels like Daniel Ingram has gone Absent Without Leave (AWOL) for a while, certainly there was no song production in the premier.

Edited April 7, 2019 by SeaSpray

[gingerninja666 487]

17 minutes ago, Rarity the Supreme said:

Expanding on this point, Grogar is a pretty “meh” antagonist in his first appearance. I’m sure that his threat level will ascend as the season progresses and I hope that we see him undertake in some seriously nefarious, sinister activity  before the inetivable final battle with him and his army arrives, but as far as his premier is concerned, his design is fairly unthreatening, and the writers kind of expect you take him as this gigantic Code Level Omega evil, by simply TELLING you what he’s done in the past, which doesn’t really work in this context, or any other.

Really? The thing that makes him feel legit to me was basically just how he seems to know what he's doing. He resurrected the dead, casually plucked Cozy and Tirek out of tartarus, and replenished a significant portion of Tirek's power with what was essentially a speck of magical dust he blew at him.

[Sovereign Leader Rarity 12,006]

16 minutes ago, gingerninja666 said:

Really? The thing that makes him feel legit to me was basically just how he seems to know what he's doing. He resurrected the dead, casually plucked Cozy and Tirek out of tartarus, and replenished a significant portion of Tirek's power with what was essentially a speck of magical dust he blew at him.

It allows the viewer to know that he’s got a great deal of raw power. but that isn’t enough to make him an intimidating villain in my opinion. He reminds me of Vaatu from the second season of The Legend of Korra. Technically, yes, he is the most powerful villain ever to appear in that show, we know that the minute he debuts. But compared to Amon from the prior season, he doesn’t come across as nearly as threatening.

Edited April 7, 2019 by Rarity the Supreme

[gingerninja666 487]

Just now, Rarity the Supreme said:

It allows to know that he’s got a great deal of real power. but that isn’t enough to make him an intimidating villain in my opinion. He reminds me of Vaatu from the second season of The Legend of Korra. Technically, yes, he is the most powerful villain ever to appear in that show, we know that the minute he debuts. But compared to Amon from the prior season, he doesn’t come across as nearly as threatening.

I guess that's one of those "Your mileage may vary" things I guess.

 

You mention Vaatu, to me he was like, the only good thing about Korra season 2 XD

[Sovereign Leader Rarity 12,006]

5 minutes ago, gingerninja666 said:

I guess that's one of those "Your mileage may vary" things I guess.

 

You mention Vaatu, to me he was like, the only good thing about Korra season 2 XD

I actually preferred Season 2 of that show to Season 1 for a couple of reasons, but to be honest, Vaatu wasn’t one of them. He had a neat voice and design, but other than that he didn’t really leave any impact on me, and was pretty forgettable. He was, however, better than the other villain of that season.

Edited April 7, 2019 by Rarity the Supreme

[SteveMorison 404]

8 hours ago, PathfinderCS said:

Yeah I know, pricey voice actor, but anyone find it funny Grogar never even bothered with this guy?

Grogar: “Well I planned to but Liev Schreiber cost too much money”

[Jeric 46,850]

11 hours ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

Soooooo... Rarity is completely fine about giving up running her boutiques to run Equestria. rD is fine with having to quit the Wonderbolts. AJ is ok with not being able to work the farm, Fluttershy leaving her sanctuary, Pinkie no longer making cakes or throwing as many parties......all of their lifelong dreams and occupations being halted to rule Equestria full time.....they’re perfectly ok with this, huh? 

It’s the next city over. You know how many people live in one area and work in another? Rarity has already shown she is apt at delegating. Rainbow already splits focus like this. Hell in Season 8 they added something new. Built-in explanation right there.

Anyway, all they need to do is resign their teaching spots and apparently they can use that time to help with nation management. Since Luna didn’t really do much of that, it should actually be easier having 7 individuals split responsibilities. Plus if Big Mac marries Sugar .... maybe they stay in Sweet Apple Acres. 

 

[Mirage 24,747]

47 minutes ago, gingerninja666 said:

Really? The thing that makes him feel legit to me was basically just how he seems to know what he's doing. He resurrected the dead, casually plucked Cozy and Tirek out of tartarus, and replenished a significant portion of Tirek's power with what was essentially a speck of magical dust he blew at him.

 

39 minutes ago, Rarity the Supreme said:

It allows the viewer to know that he’s got a great deal of raw power. but that isn’t enough to make him an intimidating villain in my opinion. He reminds me of Vaatu from the second season of The Legend of Korra. Technically, yes, he is the most powerful villain ever to appear in that show, we know that the minute he debuts. But compared to Amon from the prior season, he doesn’t come across as nearly as threatening.

What was lacking is build up (tension) and drama (interaction).

If Grogar's return was at first implied (like NMM) and then he interacted with ponies while slowly wrenching his choke hold tighter and tighter (Tirek) then the villainry would have been more satisfying. Power doesn't mean much until it affects the protagonists personally.

 

[Castle Bleck 19,333]

On 4/7/2019 at 10:22 AM, oregon said:

It’s rated Y. He didn’t die. He was destroyed!

"You're going to die... and then you'll be dead... because I killed you!"

-- Anubis (Yu-Gi-Oh! The Abridged Series)

Edited September 30, 2020 by Anti-Villain

[oregon 170]

2 minutes ago, A.V. said:

"You're going to die... and then you'll be dead... because I killed you!" -- Anubis (Yu-Gi-Oh! The Abridged Series)

Hmmmm...

Quote

• General name-calling, such as: "jerk", "loser", "nerd", "dork", "dweeb", "lame-o", "dummy", "stupid", "fools", "worms", "idiots" and "imbeciles".

Oh my. The abridged series wasn’t kidding. Yugioh really is dark.

[gingerninja666 487]

13 minutes ago, Mirage said:

 

What was lacking is build up (tension) and drama (interaction).

If Grogar's return was at first implied (like NMM) and then he interacted with ponies while slowly wrenching his choke hold tighter and tighter (Tirek) then the villainry would have been more satisfying. Power doesn't mean much until it affects the protagonists personally.

 

To me this episode WAS setting Grogar up. He didn't do anything directly in this episode because he's being built up for a later date. We hear his thought process, we're given a bit of backstory on what he is, we see a demonstration of his power. These are all things that will pay off later when he finally interacts with the main cast.

 

Also, maybe this is just me, but the destruction of Golden Oaks never really hit me that hard because it felt kinda forced. I dunno, the execution didn't do much for me.

Edited April 7, 2019 by gingerninja666

[RDDash 19,169]

1 hour ago, TheTaZe said:

Vaporized is more like it.

We can't show blood, but disintegration is perfectly fine.

[gingerninja666 487]

Discord was acting really odd in this two parter.

 

I'm wondering if he has a connection to Grogar. Grogar is "the Father of Monsters" after all. Like, I wonder if he knows that Grogar is about to return, and Grogar has some kind of ability to nullify him, so he's especially invested in making sure the cast can stand on their own.

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

4 hours ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

Season 1- Nightmare Moon breaks the elements in front of Twilight 

Twi: doesn’t panic. Me and my friends are the spirits of the elements! 

 

Season 9- Sombra breaks the elements and tree. 

Twi:  BSOD

Yeah she needs to stop Twilighting had before being given any governmental position. Maybe give her an episode with Mayor Mare to get her used to seeing how such positions are handled by her.

Twilight was able to RESTORE the elements with the realization they are the spirits of them
Sombra destroyed both the elements and the source of the elements power.

It isn't the same thing.

[Sinvanor 25]

I'm a little baffled that people liked these two episodes so much. I thought the pacing was some of the worst I've seen in any show, or movie for that matter. It's like they were trying to pack in a movie in two eps. I really didn't care for how sappy it got. Everyone felt shoehorned into the "friendship IS magic" thing after problems started happening. Yes, we know, is this for newcomers or something? Have they really not noted the various times without the elements that they beat a foe? They ARE the elements. I felt like the audience is being treated as idiots or the characters are having amnesia.

Twilight freaking out over becoming a ruler over everyone I get, but the woe is me, trying to fit the pieces of element back together? The part where they legit try to stop the everfree forest with gardening tools? 

I just ... for the first time, I felt like this show really was for little girls, stupid very young short attention span toddlers with the way the show was handled. The only thing that saved it remotely was Discord, he was great. I also feel like Grogar came out of nowhere, but that's because his intro and explanation was incredibly rushed. I've usually been decently forgiving of problems as generally they are more isolated, like Pinky being out of character, double standards, learning the same lesson over and over again. But this... for the first time I really didn't enjoy watching it. I felt like I was being throw left and right with the pacing and then the overly sappy tones and amnesia like "Bwah?!" responses in trying to defeat Sombra was tedious and just badly done.

Message was good to remember, but I was basically screaming it at the TV. Twilight seemed really thick, as did most of the others. Discord is a major troll and I love that.
Sombra's death however did look pretty darn painful, damn

I really hope the next eps are better paced and the characters aren't prone to amnesia to their inherent abilities.

Edited April 7, 2019 by Sinvanor