S09:E01+E02 - The Beginning of the End

[MangoFoalix 24,898]

Just now, oregon said:

Lol what? The ponies?

He is talking about the way they are drawn in. I kind of have to agree to an extent. Not the biggest fan of the drawing style.

[ImpctR 155]

^ Yes, their look. When I first saw this MLP we have now, Rainbow Dash, Fluttershy, just recalled how Luna looked in Season 1 too,  didn't take long to like these cuties.

And one more:

- Why did the Tree of Harmony not fight back and stop Sombra with its tentacles like in the Mean 6? It got ambushed?

 

Edited April 10, 2019 by ImpctR

[Senko 459]

My theory its conciousness now resides in the castle/school and that is a largely empty shell used to store the element of harmony gemstones.

[Truffles 2,033]

18 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

First, it feels to me like Twilight's fretting, freaking out, and hyperventilating are being dialed up too much. I can't help thinking that, in comparison to these episodes, Twilight seemed more composed, clearheaded, and even leader-like in "Princess Twilight Sparkle"

I hadn't thought of that, but I have to agree with you there. It would make sense for her to have not freaked out so much since something potentially worse happened back in S4. About the only plausible explanation I can give is because she was new to being a princess, she didn't really understand what was involved. So the subsequent seasons of dealing with politics, potential wars, and multiple bad guys have made her less sure of her ability to lead rather than strengthened it.

It's funny - back in S4 it was Spike who was freaking out and fainting every time he thought about the princesses being gone, but here he's the one trying his hardest to reassure Twilight.

18 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

One problem here is that it's never specified what exactly Celestia and Luna are retiring from, and what the Mane Seven would be expected to do in taking Celestia's and Luna's place. There's more to Celestia's and Luna's "jobs" than just protecting Equestria from big bad villains. At one point, Rainbow asks if the Mane Seven will get all of Celestia's and Luna's powers, and calls dibs on showing up in everypony's dreams, but Rainbow is never answered about those things.

Yeah, I was hoping we'd hear the details of what the Mane 7's jobs would be, especially the part about whether Twilight would be responsible for raising the sun and moon. Many fans have speculated that's not the case, but the episode leaves it ambiguous for reasons I can't discern.

18 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

For example, Applejack says that the Mane Seven are "not a bad choice" to take over for Celestia and Luna because "we always have Equestria's best interests at heart". But that doesn't, in itself, mean that they'll do a good job. One could have Equestria's best interests at heart, but do an utterly incompetent job

Ain't that that the truth. As the saying goes, "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions." I will say, however, I think at least a few of the Mane 7 have shown some leadership qualities - Twilight, Rarity, AJ, and Rainbow. I'm not sure Pinkie will ever qualify for being reliable in a leadership position (lol), though if the series was going to continue on past this season with all of them in charge, it would have been an interesting area of character development in her to explore. We already saw what happens when Spike tries to lead in S5, though admittedly he did do a lot better the following season in "Gauntlet of Fire." Fluttershy will probably always prefer working in the background, though her quiet resolve might work.

I suppose if they all work together in leadership instead of compartmentalizing their tasks among themselves, it should work out. For example, I'm pretty sure AJ would be terrible at politics, but Rarity seems like she'd be really good at it and could step in to handle any issues that arise. Again, though - they'd have to work together on pretty much everything when it comes to running a country for this scheme to work.

I'm still not sure why Celestia and Luna would think Twilight and her friends could learn to do heavy-duty politics in just a couple of days, though.

18 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

It just feels like the utter ease with which Sombra strolled into the Crystal Empire and subjugated it makes Cadance, Shining Armor, and the Empire in general look incompetent unnecessarily.

Furthermore, why did he think he needed to lay siege to Canterlot after having no problem taking the Crystal Empire? He used dark crystals to get into the palace of the Crystal Empire, but for some reason he felt he needed to use Big Mac to break Canterlot's main gate. Couldn't he have simply gone over (or through it if he turned himself into smoke like he had been doing all episode) to breach Canterlot's defenses? Canterlot doesn't even have an artifact protecting it.

18 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

Also, considering how well Spike's fire breath disabled Sombra's magical shield in that case, Spike could have gotten everyone out from Sombra's trap down at the Tree of Harmony without all the digging if he had tagged along. I guess the Mane Six didn't think that Spike needed to come, and/or Spike just didn't feel like going with them?

With Sombra having been "defeated" I could see Spike wanting to stay with the castle since all the Mane 6 were planning on doing was to return the elements. He may have wanted to check on things, or see how Starlight was doing running(?) a... closed school? Lol.

Although Spike could have broken them out of there quicker, I think having Pinkie around was probably good enough since she has those spooky earth-breaking powers her whole family shares.

18 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

If Cozy Glow hasn't heard of Grogar, then does that mean that he wasn't covered (yet) in any of the classes at Twilight's School of Friendship? After all, Cozy Glow seemed to be a particularly studious student.

Like I said in my comments, I get the impression Cozy is playing dumb and knows exactly who Grogar is. I kind of hope she'll turn out to be some ancient reborn evil entity by the end of the series, lol.

18 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

Twilight asks Starlight if she can "stay here and take care of the school", and Starlight replies "I've got you covered" while levitating Twilight's rulebook. But Starlight said earlier that the school is closed for the summer, and that she didn't expect anyone to be at the school. So why exactly does Starlight need to "take care of the school"?

I suppose she  was referring to running the school when it reopens in the Fall, though the immediacy of her reaction does make it seem like she's going to start doing things right away, even though there aren't any students present. I guess she could start making lesson plans and hiring all-new teachers, but I would think Twilight would insist on helping out, much like she couldn't stay away in "A Royal Problem."

18 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

Why does Cadance call Sombra's attention to the Mane Six charging into the throne room? Wouldn't it be better for her to distract him while the Mane Six do a sneak attack?

My guess is Cadance just got cocky. But I think it actually worked out for the better since it caused Sombra to be preoccupied with them while Spike freed Sombra's hostages. After they were free, the Mane 6 could wield their power without worry of reprisals against Twilight's extended family.

18 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

So apparently Sombra wasn't killed by the Elements-of-Harmony rainbow laser, which had appeared to disintegrate him. But that raises a question: in a world of magical beings, like Equestria, how does one confirm that a magical being is dead if there's no physical body, or if a magical being can exist independent of a physical body? Is there some of magic detection spell that could confirm that the constitutive magic of a magical being no longer exists?

The dark explanation is the second time the Mane 6 powered up, they didn't just destroy his physical body but they also destroyed his soul. So there was nothing for Grogar to resurrect. That's pretty grimdark for the Mane 6 to do, especially considering all the chances they give other villains. Perhaps Grogar is just annoyed with Sombra and is letting him have a time-out in purgatory (as it were, lol) until he feels like he might be useful again as part of the Legion of Doom?

18 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

It does seem a little weird that Rainbow's first thought isn't to worry about Scootaloo being enslaved by Sombra, but rather, to worry about Spike and Starlight

I thought so, too. But I also thought it was sweet she really cares about Spike. Shipping levels intensifying.... XD

18 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

And of course, it's very convenient that Sombra's magical shield apparently doesn't extend below and around the Mane Six like a bubble.

The amount of time and depth it took Pinkie to get out it does seem like the dark crystals extend below the surface for some distance. I guess the way they grow doesn't allow for them to form an enclosed space underground? I guess they also work better if they're placed on a hard surface like stone, much like what happened at the end of "The Crystal Empire."

18 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

But after they hit each other, they don't appear to move at all as Twilight levitates them into a pile on the ground. Are they supposed to have knocked themselves out from hitting each other?

Yes. I thought that was actually a really nice detail in that Twilight had to save them from dying or being seriously injured if they were to hit the ground at full speed.

 

 

16 hours ago, Justin_Case001 said:

Yeah, Goat Man brought him back. 

He's actually a ram, though the mistake is understandable since his design looks very goat-like (aside from his horns) to me as well.

16 hours ago, Justin_Case001 said:

That's right.  The little monster.  I know, I know--she's a parasitic little sh*t right now, but someday she's gonna look like that ^, and when she does, she might be f*ckin' awesome.  Consider this: I believe that natural born alicorns (as I still believe the Sisters are), are immortal, or at least age very, very slowly.  Transformed alicorns, on the other hoof, I believe still have the lifespan that they had before transformation.

I actually agree with you on this. She might even have plans to take over all on her own by the way she enjoyed using her power. XD

But perhaps audiences are now tired of these Kylo Ren types who are offspring that throw everything their parents believed in back in their faces? Heh.

16 hours ago, Justin_Case001 said:

But what they did with him today was disappointing.  He seemed....silly to me.  He voice was silly, and his personality was silly.  I couldn't really take him seriously.

Agreed.

16 hours ago, Justin_Case001 said:

But moreover, why does this friendship and magic thing seem so important to me?  Why is it such a sore spot?  I'll tell you--it's because I have always argued for a naturalistic worldview of Pony in which magic makes logical sense for what it is, and can be studied, learned, cast, and so forth.  I believe that a world in which simply "being friends" hard enough can explode villains is a silly and unbelievable one with a ramshackle and unmaintainable continuity.

I had to go and read your comments on "Feeling Pinkie Keen," because what you say here reflects what you said 4 years ago perfectly.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Truffles
missing an 'l'

[Here No Longer 5,270]

This premiere was absolutely fantastic. Probably the best premiere since the show started and that leaves me with a good first impression.

 

Discord was definitely solid here (he was funny and he actually for the first time seems to truly care about the mane six since he was reformed), Pinkie was well utilized (she had a few good lines, and she didn't get annoying at all), and they actually made fun of the way they write these types of episodes most of the time. Basically almost everything was solid here.

 

But, there's a few things off here. It is really obvious to me that Grogar is using the others for his own gain and lying to them about sharing rule over Equestria once they have finished, though this could be utilized in the finale potentially. Also, it's illogical for Twilight not to have enough power to defeat Sombra without the Elements... But then suddenly she does at the end. I know they used this as a plot device but... Ugh.  

 

I'll just say it was a 9.75/10, Seems about right.

[Music Chart Fan 818]

56 minutes ago, Truffles said:

I thought so, too. But I also thought it was sweet she really cares about Spike. Shipping levels intensifying.... XD

Yeah, this hadn't come to mind before, but when I stop and think about it, Rainbow has had good rapport with Spike before, such as her going with Twilight and Rarity to watch over Spike in "Dragon Quest", or her and Spike's going to the Dragon Lands to retrieve Flash Magnus's shield in "Shadow Play".

[Steel Accord 6,658]

That was probably the best season opener of the entire show. Which I feel weird for saying because it can really only be this good with everything having been built up to this point. It's like, we can't have Avengers: Endgame or the final season of Game of Thrones have the hype going into either without the previous movies/seasons having gotten us so invested as to care. Sidebar: Isn't it kind of odd how all three of those are coming to an end at about roughly the same timeframe?

Really though. I mean, this is it. I've never in my life felt such a combination of anticipation and bittersweet. The episodes' titles lay the cards on the table flat out, The Beginning of the End. With everything set up in this, I do anticipate a worthy send off and I shall break down exactly why. This had three major things going for it.

1. The villains: This show has had a surprisingly good track record when it comes to villains. The Storm King is the only one I can think of who was a flat out failure in terms of being any combination of scary, cool, or funny. Even he was more than made up for by Tempest. Yet they managed to do surprise me with a move I genuinely didn't see coming. They pulled a Legion of Doom. It's such a simple tool on its face, part and parcel of any superhero story or team. The Sinister Six, the Secret Society of Super-Villains, the Masters of Evil, the Crime Syndicate. Any longstanding group of heroes eventually prompts a group of villains to join forces because they come to realize that with the heroes working like a well oiled machine, an alliance is the only way they can hope to succeed. The fact that the Mane Six (who honestly are superheroes in all but name) have amassed even a handful of remaining nemeses speaks to their accomplishments. Something they even casually comment on to Twilight in the castle. "Do Flim and Flam count?"  Yet despite this narrative implement's apparent simplicity, it never even occurred to me that it would happen in this show. The villains up to this point have been seemingly too misanthropic and egotistical to consider a coalition. Obviously we had Tirek teaming up with Discord but that was always a deception on his part until he was powerful enough to defeat him himself. So having Grogar pull them all together seems simple but in context it's almost revolutionary and an appropriate raising of the stakes. Speaking of which . . .

2. The stakes: Damn this was tense! The initial episode was almost reassuring in that Twilight was the only one making a big deal out of the whole affair while her friends reassured her, even seemingly taking out Sombra with little effort. Then he flips the table on them and proceeds to put the Mane Six in a corner both physically and mentally. Every step of the second episode was a struggle of one kind or another and it kept me on the edge of my seat the whole time. Which was itself nicely capped off by the fact that Grogar is a great stakes raiser. A ) MLP deep lore bonus points. B ) I love how Grogar essentially proves his point, consolidates his leadership, and removes a potential rival, all by doing nothing. It's a great way to up the ante in both the opener as Sombra proves to be as big a threat as he promised and sets the stage for what's to come as this is the decoy!

3. The friendship: The "classic Twilighting" is more indicative of just where the Mane Six are emotionally. As Twilight is wigging out, her friends are handing her water and other means without comment. It's such a sign of familiarity. They even mention their past exploits as I said. The actual emotions on display were not only great at selling the aforementioned tension but the genuine warmth. When the Mane Six pool their various skills and just continue to press on even when disarmed, I really feel like they've progressed, like they've "leveled up" so to speak. The callbacks weren't just there for their own sake it was a reminder to earlier season to really show us a kind of mental before and after montage.

All in all, I'm super psyched and stoked.

[gingerninja666 487]

I’m going to make an obtuse comparison here. Bear with me.

The Dresden Files is a series all about master mages, and almost every wizard uses rituals and spells and incantations and has tools made of valuable mystic materials with carved runes.

The thing is though, while almost every wizard requires these things, they aren’t inherantly NEEDED to cast the exact same spells. Those items and magic words act as a focus for the wizard. It’s a ritual they associate with a specific effect, which causes their own internal magic to do the rest. Someone could theorhetically perform a ritual with their own mind, envisioning an atom perfect representation of the thing needed to cause a spell to happen, but the effort and discipline required to do it is nigh impossible for a human mind to fathom.

I’m kinda thinking of the the Mane 6’s harmony magic as something like that. The elements are a focus, something with their own power, but mainly serves to focus the Magic of Friendship that the Mane 6 already have inside them. And now they’ve learned they don’t need this focus anymore. They can manifest the effect anyway. It would also explain why the elements couldn't fully stop Cozy's ritual, only slow it down, allowing the students to rip it apart. It didn't have the same depth of power that the mane 6 provide.

[Zestanor 98]

1 hour ago, Truffles said:

I'm still not sure why Celestia and Luna would think Twilight and her friends could learn to do heavy-duty politics in just a couple of days, though.

 

Realistically, maybe they don’t and that’s the point. After over 1000 continuous years of rule, Celestia has probably built up a sort of shadow state that she has to “govern” and keep in line alongside Equestria itself; a network of privileges, favors, and courtesies that favor very old and established alliances (the EEA, and the aristocracy of Canterlot, for instance) over new allies, and involve formalities and politics that get in the way of actually ruling; that is, making judgments for the protection and well being of her subjects.

 

Where did Fancy Pants, for example, even get the idea that he should get free admission to all events that one time? Twilight shot him down, but perhaps he had come to expect hand outs from Celestia. Why was the EEA given such control over education? Celestia noticeably did not step in when the Chancellor was giving Twilight trouble. And why does Celestia tolerate that the Grand Galloping Gala is “always awful” if she’s the one in charge of Equestria?

 

Perhaps Celestia realizes that her long rule has not only become burden for herself, but that by totally clearing the slate (thus Luna’s resignation is also necessary) and setting Twilight up as the leader, Equestria will be more fit to work with all the new friends and allies that Twilight, not Celestia, has made for ponies: the Crystal Empire, dragons, Changelings, Yaks, Hippogriffs, and sort of Griffons. 

 

There doesn’t need to be any politics surrounding the princess who rules Equestria, since the position is not elected, nor are their any (significant) opposition parties. Twilight as “Princess of Friendship” has proved herself an apt diplomat. Whereas, we’ve seen that Celestia’s day job is mostly performing tasks that ought to be delegated to someone else, and appeasing influential ponies. With Twilight in charge, the “policies” taking up the majority of the time of Celestia can be shifted to more effective pursuits, like magic, or friendship, or something.

[Senko 459]

2 hours ago, Truffles said:

I hadn't thought of that, but I have to agree with you there. It would make sense for her to have not freaked out so much since something potentially worse happened back in S4. About the only plausible explanation I can give is because she was new to being a princess, she didn't really understand what was involved. So the subsequent seasons of dealing with politics, potential wars, and multiple bad guys have made her less sure of her ability to lead rather than strengthened it.

It's funny - back in S4 it was Spike who was freaking out and fainting every time he thought about the princesses being gone, but here he's the one trying his hardest to reassure Twilight.

Yeah, I was hoping we'd hear the details of what the Mane 7's jobs would be, especially the part about whether Twilight would be responsible for raising the sun and moon. Many fans have speculated that's not the case, but the episode leaves it ambiguous for reasons I can't discern.

Ain't that that the truth. As the saying goes, "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions." I will say, however, I think at least a few of the Mane 7 have shown some leadership qualities - Twilight, Rarity, AJ, and Rainbow. I'm not sure Pinkie will ever qualify for being reliable in a leadership position (lol), though if the series was going to continue on past this season with all of them in charge, it would have been an interesting area of character development in her to explore. We already saw what happens when Spike tries to lead in S5, though admittedly he did do a lot better the following season in "Gauntlet of Fire." Fluttershy will probably always prefer working in the background, though her quiet resolve might work.

I suppose if they all work together in leadership instead of compartmentalizing their tasks among themselves, it should work out. For example, I'm pretty sure AJ would be terrible at politics, but Rarity seems like she'd be really good at it and could step in to handle any issues that arise. Again, though - they'd have to work together on pretty much everything when it comes to running a country for this scheme to work.

I'm still not sure why Celestia and Luna would think Twilight and her friends could learn to do heavy-duty politics in just a couple of days, though.

Furthermore, why did he think he needed to lay siege to Canterlot after having no problem taking the Crystal Empire? He used dark crystals to get into the palace of the Crystal Empire, but for some reason he felt he needed to use Big Mac to break Canterlot's main gate. Couldn't he have simply gone over (or through it if he turned himself into smoke like he had been doing all episode) to breach Canterlot's defenses? Canterlot doesn't even have an artifact protecting it.

With Sombra having been "defeated" I could see Spike wanting to stay with the castle since all the Mane 6 were planning on doing was to return the elements. He may have wanted to check on things, or see how Starlight was doing running(?) a... closed school? Lol.

Although Spike could have broken them out of there quicker, I think having Pinkie around was probably good enough since she has those spooky earth-breaking powers her whole family shares.

Like I said in my comments, I get the impression Cozy is playing dumb and knows exactly who Grogar is. I kind of hope she'll turn out to be some ancient reborn evil entity by the end of the series, lol.

I suppose she  was referring to running the school when it reopens in the Fall, though the immediacy of her reaction does make it seem like she's going to start doing things right away, even though there aren't any students present. I guess she could start making lesson plans and hiring all-new teachers, but I would think Twilight would insist on helping out, much like she couldn't stay away in "A Royal Problem."

My guess is Cadance just got cocky. But I think it actually worked out for the better since it caused Sombra to be preoccupied with them while Spike freed Sombra's hostages. After they were free, the Mane 6 could wield their power without worry of reprisals against Twilight's extended family.

The dark explanation is the second time the Mane 6 powered up, they didn't just destroy his physical body but they also destroyed his soul. So there was nothing for Grogar to resurrect. That's pretty grimdark for the Mane 6 to do, especially considering all the chances they give other villains. Perhaps Grogar is just annoyed with Sombra and is letting him have a time-out in purgatory (as it were, lol) until he feels like he might be useful again as part of the Legion of Doom?

I thought so, too. But I also thought it was sweet she really cares about Spike. Shipping levels intensifying.... XD

The amount of time and depth it took Pinkie to get out it does seem like the dark crystals extend below the surface for some distance. I guess the way they grow doesn't allow for them to form an enclosed space underground? I guess they also work better if they're placed on a hard surface like stone, much like what happened at the end of "The Crystal Empire."

Yes. I thought that was actually a really nice detail in that Twilight had to save them from dying or being seriously injured if they were to hit the ground at full speed.

 

 

He's actually a ram, though the mistake is understandable since his design looks very goat-like (aside from his horns) to me as well.

I actually agree with you on this. She might even have plans to take over all on her own by the way she enjoyed using her power. XD

But perhaps audiences are now tired of these Kylo Ren types who are offspring that throw everything their parents believed in back in their faces? Heh.

Agreed.

I had to go and read your comments on "Feeling Pinkie Keen," because what you say here reflects what you said 4 years ago perfectly.

 

With regards to ressurecting Sombra (and assuming it doesn't happen later in this season) what happened to his broken horn? I remember it being a plot point in the comics about resurecting him there but did we ever see what happened to it after it sank into the ground back in the crystal empire? If not that could be why Grogar couldn't restore him this time as last time a bit of him was left behind as an anchor (the tip of his horn) whereas this time he was entirely destroyed.

[Misty Shadow 7,078]

4 hours ago, ImpctR said:

- Why did the Tree of Harmony not fight back and stop Sombra with its tentacles like in the Mean 6? It got ambushed?

It was the Mean 6 corrupting the elements with their evil that provoked the Tree of Harmony to fight back, not their mere presence. 

36 minutes ago, Senko said:

With regards to ressurecting Sombra (and assuming it doesn't happen later in this season) what happened to his broken horn? I remember it being a plot point in the comics about resurecting him there but did we ever see what happened to it after it sank into the ground back in the crystal empire? If not that could be why Grogar couldn't restore him this time as last time a bit of him was left behind as an anchor (the tip of his horn) whereas this time he was entirely destroyed.

Grogar resurrected Sombra in an underground cave nowhere near the Empire as far as we know, strongly implying that it is not Sombra's remains that are relevant to his ability to be revived, but the fact that he's a shadow. It's much more likely that the reason Grogar didn't bring Sombra back at the end was because of him betraying the deal and trying to take Equestria for himself. The canon of the show and the canon of the comic are not the same. 

[bwrosas 252]

Based on this premiere and the hints and references and names dropped in it, these are moments that have to occur.

 

1, Mane 6/8 finding out about Grogar (either en-counting him or learning about him being behind certain events through piecing the clues together), this has to/should happen (imo) in the Mid-Season finale

2. Gusty reveals herself to the Twilight and her friends, and reveals that she somehow merged with the seed that would grow into the Tree of Harmony and beyond  This should occur/has to occur in the 2nd half of this final season.

3. As much as this a repeated trope, you have to the Mane6/8 and their friends/allies get walloped by Grogar, to showcase how powerful he is.  Even to the point where not even the elements magic or rainbow magic have any affect on him

4. Is the discovery of a new magic (courtesy of Gusty), a magic that embodies each of the 6 elements, but the catch is the Mane 6 have to embody all 6 elements within them, not just their own.

5. Finally answer all the Shipping (Sparity, Fluttercord, SoarinDash, Etc..) questions.

6. Grogar getting back or reterving his bell, which would make him a bigger threat.

7. The introduction of the Dark Realm, even have a character (minor) sacrifice themselves to be toss into it by Grogar. 

8. Have Twilight become the new ruler of Equestria (Like Lauren Faust planned), but with a twist, the twist being, that she gives complete control over to the ponies and creatures to leave in Equestria without a ruler.

9.  An Epilogue scene that takes place a few years/moons in the future, showing a new generation of students being taught at Twilight's school, and being taught by the Young/Student 6, as well as have some of the students be the children of some of the members of the Mane 6/8 (Sparity, Fluttercord, SoarinDash, Etc..) .

 

These are moments that based off the premiere have to occur or should occur.

 

Edited April 10, 2019 by bwrosas

[Justin_Case001 4,855]

18 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

I feel you about this. Over the years, there have been quite a few episodes that it seemed like just about everyone loved and raved about, but that I just didn't like, and in some cases, really didn't like. And I felt like I just couldn't see what everyone else was seeing.

For me, at least, I could chalk that up to a few things. I might just really be an idiosyncratic person who has a different mindset when watching the show than a lot of (or even most) other people have. Also, my own personality, personal experiences (or lack thereof), etc. will probably mean that some episodes just won't resonate with me, even if they do with many other people. Or I'll be inclined to see things, or have things bother me, that other people just don't notice, or don't particularly care about, or are more willing to give a pass.

I'm not sure that I'm being particularly insightful or helpful here. But I just wanted to say that you're not alone in sometimes just not liking episodes that seemingly everyone else loves.

Actually, that's very insightful.  Thanks.  That's pretty much exactly how I feel. 

5 hours ago, Steel Accord said:

That was probably the best season opener of the entire show. Which I feel weird for saying because it can really only be this good with everything having been built up to this point. It's like, we can't have Avengers: Endgame or the final season of Game of Thrones have the hype going into either without the previous movies/seasons having gotten us so invested as to care.

Don't know if you happened to see my post, but I prattled on quite emphatically about how I didn't care at all for this episode.  As Music Chart so eloquently described above, I'm an idiosyncratic type person who has a different mindset about the show most of the time.  Doesn't mean it was a crappy episode, but it did not click with me one bit.  Y'know, I really wish I could see it the way you do, Steel.  I should be super stoked and hyped, and I should feel like it's all been building to this great moment.  Instead I'm just annoyed and frustrated, and I've been thinking all day about why, and I believe I have a theory. 

I think what bothers me the most is the way they seem to have a tendency to drop massive game changers in 30 seconds during the cold open.  If feels like little thought goes into such important story developments.  More time needs to be devoted to these things.  The Sister's retirement should get an entire episode of its own.  The season premiere should have been a single episode focusing solely on that, and then episodes 2 & 3 should have been the two part villain stuff.  I feel like the way in which the retirement announcement happened was unbelievable, abrupt, and totally bogus.  I can't believe that's how the Sisters would handle it.  There needed to be dialogue.  Story.  Acting.  Not just Twilight "Twilighting" in a comical fashion.  We needed feels.  Instead, they just say, "Surprise!  We're done!  Yer up, kid!"  That was minotaursh*t, I tells you.  Give me a reason to believe in this decision.  I realize that Twilight has basically been being groomed for this since the beginning, but this abrupt cold open just didn't do this scene justice at all.

Here's my suggestion.  Have a separate episode, as I said.  Celestia invites Twilight to Canterlot for a nonchalant visit, just the two of them.  Twilight arrives, has tea or something with Tia, and then Tia says, "Walk with me, Twilight."  They talk for awhile about Twilight's experiences over the past years.  Tia asks Twi how she feels about what she's learned, and the role she plays now.  Tia takes Twi to the restricted section of the library.  After looking at the books quietly for a few moments, Tia breaks the silence:

Tia: "Twilight... did you ever wonder why I promoted you to princess in the first place?"

Twi: "...  I guess I never really thought about it."

Tia: "I'm old, Twilight.  You may not know it to look at me, but I'm tired.  I've been doing this for 1111 years.  A long time, even for an alicorn.  I can't go on forever, and I don't really want to try."

Twi: "What are you saying??"

Tia: "In truth, I might well have retired some time ago, but I felt that I couldn't as long as Luna was imprisoned in the moon.  I couldn't leave Equestria all alone.  I needed to stand watch.  And I always hoped that somepony might eventually find a way to free my sister and restore her to her true self again.  You and your friends gave that to me, Twilight.  But still, I couldn't leave.  Not when my sister was still trying to find herself again.  And certainly not when you still needed my help and guidance.  But I think that time has passed."

Twi (tears forming): "No!  I'll always need your guidance!  Celestia, please!"

Tia: "You're stronger than you know, Twilight.  You don't need me as much as you think you do.  Honestly, I would very much like some time with my sister, to just be with her, without all the distractions.  I'm not going to force you to do anything.  I can't.  But I'm asking.  I had always hoped that one day you might feel ready to take my place.  I realize I'm asking a lot.  You don't have to answer now.  Think about it?"

After that, Twilight would go back and talk to all the others in the castle.  So, that's the starting point for the episode.  Just imagine where it might go from there.  Perhaps a heartfelt song about not feeling ready yet?  A throwback to that song in Crystal Empire Pt 1?  Instead, it was more like, "K, we're outta here!  The keys to the Canterlot throne room are in the drawer.  Have fun."  "But Celestia, I'm not ready!  What if I can't do this?!"  "Sorry, Twilight, can't hear you, we're already on a beach somewhere sipping piña coladas!"  Yeah, I know that they back peddled on the decision at the end, but they fact that they really dumped that bomb on them so suddenly at the beginning just really ground my gears.

I was thinking about how different my feelings about the upcoming Thrones premiere are.  I'm ludicrously excited, but the irony is that I really don't care what they do.  I have no wishlist items, I have no preferences or hopes.  I don't care who dies or not.  I honestly couldn't care less what they do or how it ends, because I know that no matter what they do, it's going to be well-written, well acted, believable, it will make sense, and it will be a helluva ride.  I don't care where the ride ends, I just enjoy being on it.  I wish I felt that way about Pony, but instead I feel frustration because I dread these moments where huge news is crammed into cold opens, and scenes that should, by all rights, be deep and emotional are instead silly and comical. 

Give me good writing, give me enough believable dialogue, and I'll be on board with just about anything the show could throw at us.  In fact, I don't think there is literally anything I wouldn't love and be open to if the writing was good enough.  There's no event horizon where I'd say that this is the last straw, the show is ruined, if they gave us good enough writing and reasons.  I know I have no right to complain, as they make this show for their target audience, and their target audience undoubtedly prefers faster pacing and comedy to longer feel-y dialogue.  But, y'know, that's why I told readers in my OP that if they don't like critical rants, then get out now because they won't like what they find.

 

6 hours ago, Truffles said:

He's actually a ram

Well lah, dee dah!  I don't care if he's Kristi Yamaguchi; he's a dingbat. 

6 hours ago, Truffles said:

She might even have plans to take over all on her own by the way she enjoyed using her power. XD

But perhaps audiences are now tired of these Kylo Ren types who are offspring that throw everything their parents believed in back in their faces? Heh.

Lol.    Well, if Flurry wanted to rule someday, I kinda doubt she'd kill her parents to do it!  Though that's a really funny image to imagine.

7 hours ago, Truffles said:

I had to go and read your comments on "Feeling Pinkie Keen," because what you say here reflects what you said 4 years ago perfectly.

Wow!  I can't believe you remembered and dug up that old post!  You're something else, Truffles.  You always make my day.    Extra hoofs for you.

 

Oh, something else really important that I forgot in my OP.  When Starswirl said that he felt the tree's destruction, as if a piece of himself were lost, who else thought of this:

Spoiler

 

 

[Zestanor 98]

7 hours ago, bwrosas said:

8. Have Twilight become the new ruler of Equestria (Like Lauren Faust planned), but with a twist, the twist being, that she gives complete control over to the ponies and creatures to leave in Equestria without a ruler.

I think the “twist” will be that she can stay and rule from her Ponyville castle. It will mirror season 1 episode 2, where Celestia asks if she’s ready to go to Canterlot, and Twilight says no, and Celestia basically says, “good, that’s what I expected.”

[Courageous Thunder Dash 7,809]

What an epic start to Season 9. 

Discord's speech was so special, even though I knew he was faking and testing the mane 6. But Discord will be Discord and he has his methods of reminding Twilight and their who they really are. 

Twilight as a verb was hilarious. 

Nonetheless it was sad to see all the ponies we love under Sombra's control. 

Overall awesome episode. 

[Music Chart Fan 818]

@Justin_Case001,

You make a very good point about how a more slower-paced, "feelsy" episode could probably better suit the emotional impact that this subject matter would seem to warrant, and I really like your alternative vision for how Celestia could have told Twilight about Celestia's and Luna's intention to retire, and their desire to have Twilight and her friends take their place.

[Monsoon 1,648]

It was an alright episode, it wasn't all that it was hyped up to be which is slightly disappointing, the overall plot of the 2 episodes was kind of all over the place. I hope the final episodes aren't as pridictable.

[Senko 459]

I have noticed that when thrown in the deep end Twilight acts swiftly and decisively but when given time to anticipate something she gets inside her own head and starts on a downward spiral of imagining the worst (a trait I actually share with her as I was reminded today) so ironically she'd probably have handled this better if Celestia had just handed the crown and said "Congratulations your now in charge of Equestria Luna are off on an extended sister bonding trip see you in a few centuries."

[Steel Accord 6,658]

6 hours ago, Senko said:

I have noticed that when thrown in the deep end Twilight acts swiftly and decisively but when given time to anticipate something she gets inside her own head and starts on a downward spiral of imagining the worst (a trait I actually share with her as I was reminded today) so ironically she'd probably have handled this better if Celestia had just handed the crown and said "Congratulations your now in charge of Equestria Luna are off on an extended sister bonding trip see you in a few centuries."

Good observation. How Twilight almost seems better when flying by the seat of her pants than being set to a task. Or at least one as overwhelming as this.

[rainbowflitz34 2]

On 4/10/2019 at 12:25 AM, bwrosas said:

Based on this premiere and the hints and references and names dropped in it, these are moments that have to occur.

 

1, Mane 6/8 finding out about Grogar (either en-counting him or learning about him being behind certain events through piecing the clues together), this has to/should happen (imo) in the Mid-Season finale

2. Gusty reveals herself to the Twilight and her friends, and reveals that she somehow merged with the seed that would grow into the Tree of Harmony and beyond  This should occur/has to occur in the 2nd half of this final season.

3. As much as this a repeated trope, you have to the Mane6/8 and their friends/allies get walloped by Grogar, to showcase how powerful he is.  Even to the point where not even the elements magic or rainbow magic have any affect on him

4. Is the discovery of a new magic (courtesy of Gusty), a magic that embodies each of the 6 elements, but the catch is the Mane 6 have to embody all 6 elements within them, not just their own.

5. Finally answer all the Shipping (Sparity, Fluttercord, SoarinDash, Etc..) questions.

6. Grogar getting back or reterving his bell, which would make him a bigger threat.

7. The introduction of the Dark Realm, even have a character (minor) sacrifice themselves to be toss into it by Grogar. 

8. Have Twilight become the new ruler of Equestria (Like Lauren Faust planned), but with a twist, the twist being, that she gives complete control over to the ponies and creatures to leave in Equestria without a ruler.

9.  An Epilogue scene that takes place a few years/moons in the future, showing a new generation of students being taught at Twilight's school, and being taught by the Young/Student 6, as well as have some of the students be the children of some of the members of the Mane 6/8 (Sparity, Fluttercord, SoarinDash, Etc..) .

 

These are moments that based off the premiere have to occur or should occur.

 

This has nothing to do with the show, this is about the friendship created by Lauren Faust herself, not about romance between these characters. The ships you mention are not a relationship. Soarindash (the character is not interested in having a couple.)is a ship made by fans and it is not a relationship, Fluttercord are beties with a very strong friendship, and none of them are a couple, they are fake and aren't part of a relationship. The only ones that are part of a relationship are sparity, sugar belle with big mac only they that happen, not with the main. lot people would feel dissapointed.

[Rushing cash 824]

The only thing that bothers me is how did sombra managed to survive the first blast of the elements in the episode? No other villain, not even discord managed to do it, is it because he is part shadow? Or because he uses dark magic? Maybe its because the mane 6 did not use the elements in full power? Other than this confusing bit the episode is amazing, I enjoyed every second of it, probably the best 2 parter in the show for me. Every character had a moment to shine: like starlight manipulating twilight it was hilarious! 

I hope we will find soon what grogar is planing and how powerful he is.

[MangoFoalix 24,898]

I need to give this another watch. My opinion probably won't change too much, but I just really want to see it again.

[Pripyat Pony 2,608]

OMGOMGOMGOMG it's GROGAR!

GROGAR!

Soz, a little bit of G1 fangirling there. XD I have been wishing over and over again for FiM to bring him in as a villain. Ever since they resurrected Tirek, I dared to believe it might be possible. Grogar was my favourite G1 villain, and he's certainly done justice in this incarnation.

 

[Jonny Music 3,308]

There was a particular moment in this season's premiere that made me want to do this, lol :
 

 

[Truffles 2,033]

On 4/9/2019 at 10:52 PM, Zestanor said:

After over 1000 continuous years of rule, Celestia has probably built up a sort of shadow state that she has to “govern” and keep in line alongside Equestria itself; a network of privileges, favors, and courtesies that favor very old and established alliances (the EEA, and the aristocracy of Canterlot, for instance) over new allies, and involve formalities and politics that get in the way of actually ruling; that is, making judgments for the protection and well being of her subjects.

My instincts tell me that wouldn't last for long once the Mane 6 took over. Every pony with some level of influence would likely test these newbies, just to see how far they could push them into granting additional favors or rulings. Twilight may still be the most popular princess (as of "Once Upon a Zeppelin") but I have a feeling even with that status some would be tempted to take advantage of her.

And once she actually had to start making tough decisions, I'm not sure her status as most popular would last.

On 4/9/2019 at 10:52 PM, Zestanor said:

Where did Fancy Pants, for example, even get the idea that he should get free admission to all events that one time? Twilight shot him down, but perhaps he had come to expect hand outs from Celestia.

That kind of ties into my thinking above. I always thought Fancy Pants was trying to take advantage of Twilight because she's new to all of this. And it wasn't Twilight who shot him down, it was Spike speaking on behalf of her.

On 4/9/2019 at 10:52 PM, Zestanor said:

Perhaps Celestia realizes that her long rule has not only become burden for herself, but that by totally clearing the slate (thus Luna’s resignation is also necessary) and setting Twilight up as the leader, Equestria will be more fit to work with all the new friends and allies that Twilight, not Celestia, has made for ponies: the Crystal Empire, dragons, Changelings, Yaks, Hippogriffs, and sort of Griffons.

I could buy that, though it diminishes Celestia in my eyes if that was the case since she's essentially bailing and handing it all over to Twilight and her friends. While I agree having non-pony allies would give Twilight some extra clout against those in the kingdom that would try to manipulate her, we've seen it always doesn't work out that way since the other species can be quite rude and/or aggressive.

On 4/9/2019 at 10:52 PM, Zestanor said:

There doesn’t need to be any politics surrounding the princess who rules Equestria, since the position is not elected, nor are their any (significant) opposition parties. Twilight as “Princess of Friendship” has proved herself an apt diplomat.

I just wonder though how much of that is due to her title of "Princess of Friendship" being more of a figurehead than an actual head of state? She doesn't have to collect taxes, throw ponies in jail, decide border disputes (as far as we know, anyway). She's a decent diplomat, but again I wonder if it isn't mostly due to her celebrity than her diplomatic abilities? I suppose as long as she has her friends to back her up, it might work out.

On 4/9/2019 at 11:40 PM, Senko said:

With regards to ressurecting Sombra (and assuming it doesn't happen later in this season) what happened to his broken horn? I remember it being a plot point in the comics about resurecting him there but did we ever see what happened to it after it sank into the ground back in the crystal empire? If not that could be why Grogar couldn't restore him this time as last time a bit of him was left behind as an anchor (the tip of his horn) whereas this time he was entirely destroyed.

I was hoping the events during "The Crystal Empire" would play a bigger role - including the questions as to his horn surviving - in how he was revived and interacted with the rest of the cast, but it seems the lady writers decided to ignore all of that and just make him more of a generic villain, which was unfortunate.

On 4/9/2019 at 4:48 AM, Justin_Case001 said:

I'm also annoyed by the fact that, if the poll on this thread is any indication, this episode was beloved by the fans.  And it annoys me that that annoys me.  I feel like I'm the one with the problem, here.

If it helps, I look at the polling for this episode and it seems like a less-than-spectacular result. If I'm recalling correctly there are numerous episodes that have scored higher than this one did when the low end votes are taken into account.

 

On 4/10/2019 at 4:19 AM, Justin_Case001 said:

Have a separate episode, as I said.  Celestia invites Twilight to Canterlot for a nonchalant visit, just the two of them.  Twilight arrives, has tea or something with Tia, and then Tia says, "Walk with me, Twilight."  They talk for awhile about Twilight's experiences over the past years.

I really like this idea, though I guess the buildup for last season was occupied by Cozy Glow and Celestia got pushed out after "Horse Play."

On 4/10/2019 at 4:19 AM, Justin_Case001 said:

Wow!  I can't believe you remembered and dug up that old post!  You're something else, Truffles.

Well.... Not quite.   As I read your comments you sounded just like Twilight in that episode, so I went back and re-read them from the "Feeling Pinkie Keen" thread and noted your spot-on consistency of opinion between 2015 and now. It also helped that that episode happened to be on recently during DFC's "Ponypalooza" and it was interesting to get to see it in HD for the first time since The Hub was standard def back in those days.

I actually like that episode - it has some of the most memorable gags and one-liners, and I found Pinkie funny and not annoying. They did totally bungle the moral at the end, however, but it wasn't enough to ruin the episode for me.

On 4/10/2019 at 4:19 AM, Justin_Case001 said:

Oh, something else really important that I forgot in my OP.  When Starswirl said that he felt the tree's destruction, as if a piece of himself were lost, who else thought of this:

YES. I felt like they were referencing "Star Wars" here, along with Sombra's reply to Twilight saying she's not afraid: "You should be." That's right out of "Empire" where Luke is talking with Yoda.

 

On 4/11/2019 at 7:57 PM, Jonny Music said:

There was a particular moment in this season's premiere that made me want to do this, lol

And there's another reason I'm really glad Spike has his wings: When he gets hit or flipped, he doesn't land on his back anymore since he can hover to a recovery!

 

On 4/9/2019 at 10:15 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

Yeah, this hadn't come to mind before, but when I stop and think about it, Rainbow has had good rapport with Spike before, such as her going with Twilight and Rarity to watch over Spike in "Dragon Quest", or her and Spike's going to the Dragon Lands to retrieve Flash Magnus's shield in "Shadow Play".

They both have personalities that are similar to one another in some ways, and are both very loyal. I think that's why I like seeing interact together. It feels like watching a couple of old buddies hang out and having fun.

Edited April 13, 2019 by Truffles
Missing a 't'