S09:E01+E02 - The Beginning of the End

[Music Chart Fan 818]

1 hour ago, Truffles said:

If it helps, I look at the polling for this episode and it seems like a less-than-spectacular result. If I'm recalling correctly there are numerous episodes that have scored higher than this one did when the low end votes are taken into account.

I concur with this (and I'll tag @Justin_Case001 so he sees this). I don't necessarily put too much stock in the episode topic polls in the first place, since voters in episode topic polls have to be aware of the polls, willing/able to distill their opinions down to a 1-5 integer scale, motivated enough to vote in the polls, etc. So, for example, we might think that people who disliked or didn't care much about an episode are less likely to be motivated to vote in the poll at all.

But for what it's worth, if we compare the poll results for "The Beginning Of The End" to those for a couple of other episodes that are widely loved, "The Beginning Of The End" doesn't score quite as highly. (Note that the poll for "The Perfect Pear" below has six options, with the last one being even higher than "Love it!".) I briefly looked around and found that the poll results for "The Beginning Of The End" could be compared to those for "Once Upon A Zeppelin", for example. And while I think that episode was fairly well-liked, it probably isn't in the stratosphere of all-time most amazing episodes.

[Zestanor 98]

1 hour ago, Truffles said:

My instincts tell me that wouldn't last for long once the Mane 6 took over

Maybe not. But the sorts of folks she'd shift the favors to would be her friends in the non-pony communities. The fact that Celestia had almost nothing to do with the alliances between all of the creatures/kingdoms I mentioned and Equestria may be why she wants to give the job to Twilight. The dragon Lord, Thorax, the Yak prince, Queen Novo, etc. owe nothing to Celestia and Luna. If Celestia truly values these relationships, maybe she thinks it is in the best interests of Equestria for the new ruler to be the person who made this league in the first place.

 

1 hour ago, Truffles said:

She doesn't have to collect taxes, throw ponies in jail, decide border disputes

AFAIK from the way medieval monarchies/Gondor works (what Canterlot is based off of), collecting taxes doesn't look anything like what we think of today. So, nothing like income tax or sales tax, but tariffs and excise taxes; that is, revenues that can be collected directly in person by an officer of the state. That's not the job of the monarch. Nor is there, I think, a pony IRS, because in the Middle Ages, revenues were not monitored that closely. And prison doesn't seem to be a thing in Equestria.

But she has a lot of experience in things like border disputes.

[Jonny Music 3,308]

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Truffles said:

And there's another reason I'm really glad Spike has his wings: When he gets hit or flipped, he doesn't land on his back anymore since he can hover to a recovery!

Good observation there.

[azbat 301]

It only took seven viewings but I finally realized that: 

Tirek = Something old

Cozy = Something new

Chrysalis = Something borrowed

Grogar = Something blue

It really is an unholy alliance.

[Senko 459]

5 hours ago, Zestanor said:

Maybe not. But the sorts of folks she'd shift the favors to would be her friends in the non-pony communities. The fact that Celestia had almost nothing to do with the alliances between all of the creatures/kingdoms I mentioned and Equestria may be why she wants to give the job to Twilight. The dragon Lord, Thorax, the Yak prince, Queen Novo, etc. owe nothing to Celestia and Luna. If Celestia truly values these relationships, maybe she thinks it is in the best interests of Equestria for the new ruler to be the person who made this league in the first place.

 

AFAIK from the way medieval monarchies/Gondor works (what Canterlot is based off of), collecting taxes doesn't look anything like what we think of today. So, nothing like income tax or sales tax, but tariffs and excise taxes; that is, revenues that can be collected directly in person by an officer of the state. That's not the job of the monarch. Nor is there, I think, a pony IRS, because in the Middle Ages, revenues were not monitored that closely. And prison doesn't seem to be a thing in Equestria.

But she has a lot of experience in things like border disputes.

"You're behind on your taxes that's a tartarus."

4 hours ago, azbat said:

It only took seven viewings but I finally realized that: 

Tirek = Something old

Cozy = Something new

Chrysalis = Something borrowed

Grogar = Something blue

It really is an unholy alliance.

How is Chrysalis borrowed?

[KH7672 1,604]

1 hour ago, Senko said:

How is Chrysalis borrowed?

You're right I think it still works but better as:

Something Old: Chrysalis (being the Mane 6's oldest rival)

Something New: Cozy Glow (their newest rival)

Something Borrowed: Tirek (receives power from stolen/borrowed magic)

Something Blue: Grogar

[azbat 301]

Chrysalis is a changeling so she can borrow the look of any other creature.

[Truffles 2,033]

13 hours ago, Zestanor said:

But the sorts of folks she'd shift the favors to would be her friends in the non-pony communities. The fact that Celestia had almost nothing to do with the alliances between all of the creatures/kingdoms I mentioned and Equestria may be why she wants to give the job to Twilight. The dragon Lord, Thorax, the Yak prince, Queen Novo, etc. owe nothing to Celestia and Luna.

To be fair, we don't know what the relationships between the two sisters and the other species are. We do know Luna told Twilight to seek out the hippogryphs in the movie, so there must have been some kind of relationship there (probably a 1000 years ago, anyway, lol). The rest has, admittedly, been fan speculation. E.g., Celestia and Torch's mutual respect for one another allowing for a truce between ponies and dragons. (Though Smolder's comment about dragons not terrorizing pony villages anymore makes me wonder what kind of truce there really was before Ember became Dragon Lord.)

I agree though, that the Mane 6 and Spike helping the other species during various points of the series gives her an in with them.

13 hours ago, Zestanor said:

But she has a lot of experience in things like border disputes.

Could you name some examples? I'm blanking on what those might be.

[Zestanor 98]

1 hour ago, Truffles said:

Could you name some examples? I'm blanking on what those might be.

I guess I mean all of the diplomatic stuff is akin to border disputes. 

[Rushing cash 824]

After re-watching the premier a few more times I started to really like sombras new voice, I think it suits him, it shows his confidence and from time to time his sounds very menacing, like when he says "you should be".  The fact that grogar is voiced by the dragon ball narrator is amazing.  

Definitely my favorite 2 parter and one of mine favorite episodes overall, but I am probably biased       10\10

I hope the rest of the season is close quality wise to this episode,if it is, it might end as the best season in the show for me.

When twilight will become the ruler, will celestia and luna still raise the sun and moon? I guess we will learn in the finale, or never.

[RaphLuna 305]

Grogar I find to be more bossy Demanding and Controlling. After all He demanded the villians to join him. He is not type to work hard to get the Villians to work together. That responsibility he leaves to cozy glow. After all she does have a way to influence others to join together in friendship . True Friendship is Magic. However through cozy glow discovery she discovered that Friendship is also Power. So I believe the ending will be a Friendship is Magic VS Friendship is Power Take Down. That is until Grogar gets his bell. And he starts to abandon the friendship is power circle. And instead summon all the monsters Demanding they obey him to take Twilight and her friends down. The friendship is power circle betrayed by Grogar teams up and joins twilight and her friends to take down Grogar and all the monsters he summoned back from which they came,.

[Princess Cheese Dorito 7]

I  feel like these were an amazing two episode season premiere because it they were so cool. Yes, the villains are bad, but man, is King Sombra cool. I also thought Grogar was cool too. It seems that his comeback is a must for the end of FiM and I couldn't agree more by getting to see this awesome villain in action. 

[Light Blade 8,658]

So, I finally watched the premiere too. here are my 1st viewing immediate thoughts:

- Pinka > a bowling ball! 

- THAT BOOK COVER 

- SWEET CELESTIA, TWILIE! CALM DOWN!!! 

- Twilighting? TWILIGHTING?! PINKA, YOU MAGNIFICENT GENUIS! 

- How much I can relate to Twilie. 

- Chryssie? Tirek? Cozy?! S-s-s-s...SOOOOOOOOMBREROOOOOOOOOOO!!! 

- Wait, what? Oh hey, that's the guy from G1. You are...ah yes, Grogar? What is this!? Avengers but with villains? 

- Oh, so he is a big shot, eh? Thanos of MLP?

- Puny Ponies?! HOW DARE YOU!

 - 'pfffft' I dunno why, but something about Sombrero's voice makes me really love it.

- Starlight, please get LOADS OF ICE!!! We need...oh colt. She got it too...oh, get it. From mentor to student, to student's student...or we STILL NEED ICE!

- Oh no! NOT MIND CONTROL HELMETS!

- Let baby go, Sombra!

 

- ...well that takeover didn't take long. 

- Okay, that Twilie begging Discord is adorbs 

- What is up with that check? 

 

...is it just me or the pace is a bit...fast?

 

Huh?

 

TREE!

 

 SOMBRA YOU'LL SUFFER FOR THIS!

AND WHAT IS UP WITH YOUR VOICE?!

 

...not even Pinka can cheer us up now...oh...

...BUT HER DRRRILL IS BACK, EVERYPONY!

 

Sh...SHOW ME THE MUDDY?! Rrrarrrity, you ssspicy lady 

 

NOT SPIKE AND STARLY TOO!

 

That's some aggressive gardening I'm seeing here.

 

Well what do you know, those two came to help! Oh, and Starswirl!

 

Welcome to my world, Mane 6. How do you think I feel about hurting you in a situation like this?

 

You don't know, Twilie...except teleporting into the castle. It's okay, sweety. I also say inaccurate things about my next actions when under pressure.

 

DISCORD! COULD HAVE HELPED, YOU KNOW!

...oh.

 

[ + that pony sure does love dark crystals ]

 

Did...did Discord just say MVP? Most Valuable Player?! 

 

So much for MVP

 

A.

C.

T.

O.

R.

 

"You should be"

What are you, Yoda now?

 

Like I said, ACTOOOR

 

So those baddies are saving it until next time...

 

Overall...I dunno, guys. Must be my drink when I was watching, but I did get a feeling that the premiere felt a bit...rushed. As in, a story crammed into a frame smaller than it requires. I felt like it tried to tell us the story as quick as it could so it could make it into the 40 minute limit.

If I am wrong about pace then please inform me of that. Details shall be appreciated.

Edited April 14, 2019 by Light Blade

[Darkness Void 51]

So, "The Beginning Of The End", they didn't have try to pretend. After all it was fun to see Sombra in his full powered state. So far only he and Tirek both have managed to fully render Equestria powerless. Tirek through seer force, Sombra through brainwashing.

I think Tirek is a bigger threat but Sombra shouldn't be taken lightly. He's a smart villain, and totally ripped off Nyx. X3 But you know what Sombra? NIGHTMARE MOON SHATTERED THE ELEMENTS BACK IN SEASON 1!!!!! I don't think that matters much, plus RAINBOW POWER which didn't need the Elements to work either.

Kinda a cheep way to beat him tho, in the end there, but Rainbow Power is a good answer for how and the spirit within the Tree is likely still kicking. Grogar being the prime villain...I theorized Cozy was going to free him, but that wasn't the case and thus we have a question.

Since it is stated that his defeat was so very long before Tirek's first attack, how the bloody Tartarus wasn't he found in that tower? What, a cloaking spell? Another world maybe? Idk, but he should have been discovered---or his base at least---by now if it's been that long.

At any wait it'll be interesting to see how this band of villains (will others join I wonder?) will go about working together. I hope they won't suffer from "villain + villain = "MUST KILL FOR EVIL RIGHTS YOU STUPID LOW LIFE I AM IN CHARGE HERE!!!!!!!" route. Chrysalis, Cozy, are likely to be reformed. Tirek? Not unless his brother shows up.

Overall this Ep was fun! But so many questions now...like, what will the royal sisters do? I mean, why and how can they retire? Well Twilight, best be getting your friends enteral life sooner rather than later....Aw well, time travel! Or, you know, have an occasional meetup within the Dream Realm.

 

[Zestanor 98]

31 minutes ago, Darkness Void said:

NIGHTMARE MOON SHATTERED THE ELEMENTS BACK IN SEASON 1!!!!! I don't think that matters much, plus RAINBOW POWER

She shattered the five stones that contained dormant versions of the elements, and Twilight’s element materialized out of nothing IIRC. The “pure” elements didn’t need the rocks to be perfectly spherical to reactivate. Whereas Sombra broke the pure elements and their power source, so they couldn’t be reconstituted. So it’s slightly different.

Rainbow Power is a mystery I guess. i would say it was a one time power up, but I remember that Pinkie did it randomly one time. It’s probably also tied to the Tree of Harmony, since it came out of the lockbox.

the progression of power ups is interesting. The most reliable were the element jewelries, which required a “spark” the first time, but subsequently only required the consent of all six bearers, and sourced power from the Tree. The Rainbow Power wasn’t tied to the physical elements, and seemed to require dire circumstances to activate (if we take Pinkie’s random transformation as a joke, which seems safe) along with the consent of all six, while still sourcing its power from the Tree. The thing they did in this episode, however, required dire circumstances. That is, it wasn’t as simple as putting in necklaces and zapping people; it required the mental/completely active participation of the Mane 6, and the power came from within, not using the Tree as a crutch, finally. 

So it is different. The elements were definitely more reliable though, since they didn’t require emotional exertion to use.

[Star Petal 215]

It was a great episode overall, I just really REALLY wish they didn't kill of Sombra. I hope this, whatever his name was again, brings him back again before this season is over. For me it seems like the evil bad guy team's power was significantly reduced as a result of this and I couldn't help be scream inside to make twilight realize that "you guys ARE THE ELEMENTS OF HARMONY!" I really wished they used that actual line in the episode too, but alas. It took a long obviously faked speech from Discord to get them to realize that. Sometimes I think he is the most intelligent creature in equestria for being able to notice the obvious more often than others. 

[Sh Pie 65]

Between the S8 finale and the present, I have watched the movie with the hippogriffs and I'm currently watching the Equestria Girls hour specials. So now I have a greater understanding of the lore of Equestria and its various creatures. Just in time for the last season.

This was an epic premiere. I'm glad it continued where the S8 finale ended with Tirek and Cozy in Tartarus, as they're suddenly teleported out by a magical ram called Grogar. I recall Twilight mentioning his name before so that must have been foreshadowing for his appearance. Sure, he doesn't look that intimidating, but neither does Cozy and that little filly almost destroyed magic. Chrysalis knows not to underestimate him, figuring he must have some potent magic if he can spring them so easily from their cages. His plan of collaboration immediately appeals to Cozy who takes friendship very seriously as a powerful weapon. Sombra, probably the lamest of the gang whose previous defeat was not by the Elements of Harmony but by a wingless baby dragon, protests the idea and insists on ruling Equestria alone. Grogar's plan is actually pretty pragmatic. If their combined effort succeeds in defeating the Mane 6, that doesn't mean they have to rule together. They could fight until the last creature standing and if Grogar is as powerful as he seems, that would definitely be in his favor.

Twilight getting called out on Twilighting by her friends was humorous. That verb really needs to go in the dictionary forever. Twilight's reaction is understandable though, after Celestia and Luna just declared their retirement and appointed her as their successor. I can only presume that there was a substantial time skip since the S8 finale to justify Celestia's claim regarding Equestria's harmony and considering Twilight already became a headmare last season. Discord's inclusion is welcome as always, he's awesome. I liked AJ's throwback to Flim and Flam as villains since Twilight saw a future scenario where they won. Grogar may regret overlooking them.

Despite Sombra not being as effective and intelligent as his fellow villains, he does succeed in destroying the Tree of Harmony and the Elements which were keeping the Everfree Forest in check, rendering it uninhibited and the Mane 6 without their friendship magic. Good thing Starswirl was there. If he and the pillars were still in limbo, there would be nopony with the means to control the overgrowth.

When Rainbow attempts to fly in to Canterlot Castle, she is stopped by the brainwashed Wonderbolts. Even though Sombra was never shown or implied to have invaded Cloudsdale. I thought that was strange.

Discord is a surprisingly reliable mentor to the Mane 6. He proves he can turn Sombra's attacks in to balloons effortlessly and he could have taken care of him whenever he wanted. Instead, he chose to deliberately restrain himself and fake an injury to spur the Mane 6 in to action. They begged him to defeat Sombra with his mastery of chaos but they forgot how powerful their magic was when they called upon their friendship. Sure, the Elements made it easier to access their friendship power, but when they're completely synchronized with each other's feelings, they can still do it. Discord showed them they didn't need his help, just their friendship and courage and that's why the princesses were so confident of Twilight's ability. It shows how far they've come from hating Discord to seeing him as a true friend and powerful ally.

Grogar makes Sombra's second defeat an example to the others that the Mane 6 cannot be defeated alone. I don't think this is the end of Sombra though. Grogar will probably want to collect on their pact now that he agreed to submit if he failed. With some of the most dangerous villains working together, it really sets the finale for a climactic and perilous series of events. I have a feeling that this is going to be a mindblowing and gratifying last season of MLP.

[Senko 459]

1 hour ago, Sh Pie said:

Between the S8 finale and the present, I have watched the movie with the hippogriffs and I'm currently watching the Equestria Girls hour specials. So now I have a greater understanding of the lore of Equestria and its various creatures. Just in time for the last season.

This was an epic premiere. I'm glad it continued where the S8 finale ended with Tirek and Cozy in Tartarus, as they're suddenly teleported out by a magical ram called Grogar. I recall Twilight mentioning his name before so that must have been foreshadowing for his appearance. Sure, he doesn't look that intimidating, but neither does Cozy and that little filly almost destroyed magic. Chrysalis knows not to underestimate him, figuring he must have some potent magic if he can spring them so easily from their cages. His plan of collaboration immediately appeals to Cozy who takes friendship very seriously as a powerful weapon. Sombra, probably the lamest of the gang whose previous defeat was not by the Elements of Harmony but by a wingless baby dragon, protests the idea and insists on ruling Equestria alone. Grogar's plan is actually pretty pragmatic. If their combined effort succeeds in defeating the Mane 6, that doesn't mean they have to rule together. They could fight until the last creature standing and if Grogar is as powerful as he seems, that would definitely be in his favor.

Twilight getting called out on Twilighting by her friends was humorous. That verb really needs to go in the dictionary forever. Twilight's reaction is understandable though, after Celestia and Luna just declared their retirement and appointed her as their successor. I can only presume that there was a substantial time skip since the S8 finale to justify Celestia's claim regarding Equestria's harmony and considering Twilight already became a headmare last season. Discord's inclusion is welcome as always, he's awesome. I liked AJ's throwback to Flim and Flam as villains since Twilight saw a future scenario where they won. Grogar may regret overlooking them.

Despite Sombra not being as effective and intelligent as his fellow villains, he does succeed in destroying the Tree of Harmony and the Elements which were keeping the Everfree Forest in check, rendering it uninhibited and the Mane 6 without their friendship magic. Good thing Starswirl was there. If he and the pillars were still in limbo, there would be nopony with the means to control the overgrowth.

When Rainbow attempts to fly in to Canterlot Castle, she is stopped by the brainwashed Wonderbolts. Even though Sombra was never shown or implied to have invaded Cloudsdale. I thought that was strange.

Discord is a surprisingly reliable mentor to the Mane 6. He proves he can turn Sombra's attacks in to balloons effortlessly and he could have taken care of him whenever he wanted. Instead, he chose to deliberately restrain himself and fake an injury to spur the Mane 6 in to action. They begged him to defeat Sombra with his mastery of chaos but they forgot how powerful their magic was when they called upon their friendship. Sure, the Elements made it easier to access their friendship power, but when they're completely synchronized with each other's feelings, they can still do it. Discord showed them they didn't need his help, just their friendship and courage and that's why the princesses were so confident of Twilight's ability. It shows how far they've come from hating Discord to seeing him as a true friend and powerful ally.

Grogar makes Sombra's second defeat an example to the others that the Mane 6 cannot be defeated alone. I don't think this is the end of Sombra though. Grogar will probably want to collect on their pact now that he agreed to submit if he failed. With some of the most dangerous villains working together, it really sets the finale for a climactic and perilous series of events. I have a feeling that this is going to be a mindblowing and gratifying last season of MLP.

Here's a scary thought when Celestia say's Equestria is enjoying a period of peace and stability she's not referring to a period of time since the S8 finale but the whole timeline since NMM first returned in season 1. All the attacks, all the battles, all the invasions are to her a nice quiet period compared to what things are like normally.

[Zestanor 98]

If y’all hadn’t noticed yet, Grogar’s orb is a goat eye.

[Steel Accord 6,658]

47 minutes ago, Zestanor said:

If y’all hadn’t noticed yet, Grogar’s orb is a goat eye.

Yes I did see that. It was a nice touch and also reminded me a little of the Palantir that Saruman used to contact Sauron.

(Love your avatar pic by the way. I have a thread to share with you.  https://mlpforums.com/topic/44444-christian-bronies-meet-greet-and-mingle/page/3/)

 

[simba86 1,541]

so this is it, the beginning of the end. not gonna lie i'll probably shed some tears when G4 ends. I have been with it since the beginning "technically before it since pony tales" and it has been a fun and wild ride and I am going to miss it when its gone.

they sure did pack a lot in these 2 episodes, it's a good start to the end and I loved it, especially since I am old enough to remember when the ponies fought Grogar the first time back in G1.

[Rainbowfan45 22]

I loved these episodes. After hearing that this was the final season, I felt that Hasbro better deliver an excellent season. So far they have. These were great episodes. I was lowkey expecting past villians to unite, and had already figured out which ones might do so. It was pretty nervewracking watching it, but it was awesome seeing how everything came together in the end. 

[Kion 7,374]

At first I didn’t really think I was gonna like this episode due to Starlight being sidelined in the trailers. However not only was it better than I thought it would be but it’s also in my top 3 favorite premieres overall. I love almost everything about this episode the comedy the entertainment. The only thing I didn’t like was when discord was being annoying to Twilight. But other then that What a fantastic way to start the season. 

If I had to choose a favorite part it would probably be cozy shipping Tirek and Chrysalis. 

Overall fantastic premiere 

Score: 9/10

 

[heavens-champion 1,893]

Turns out Cozy Glow didn't have a plan after being locked up in Tartarus, after all. She really didn't want to befriend Tirek.

[CypherHoof 26,479]

Saw Purple Pony, Twi'ing hard as she could Twi

what could I do?

My Pony's tree had gone, and left my Pony blue

Nobody knew

What kind of magic spell to use?

Starswirl's scales or Starlight's fails

Thunder or lightning

then pony said...