S09:E01+E02 - The Beginning of the End

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

Just now, TheTaZe said:

Why exactly? This premiere wasn't bad at all.

His point is they wrote such an amazing premiere that he wishes Lady Writers were in charge of the show again.

[MangoFoalix 24,898]

Just now, RyanMahaffe said:

His point is they wrote such an amazing premiere that he wishes Lady Writers were in charge of the show again.

I guess that makes sense...?

1 minute ago, VG_Addict said:

It wasn't, but when the Lady Writers were story editors, we had arguably the best season of the show in S7. 

To be fair, I still feel the best Seasons of the show was back in Season 4 and 5, but that is just me.

[Jeric 46,834]

2 minutes ago, TheTaZe said:

This is still technically a spoiler so I will post this here.

This is some great artwork!

That's going in the OP

[Misty Shadow 7,078]

1 minute ago, RulesofRarity said:

I'd say he's always been effective, he would've won way back in S3 if it wasn't for Spike.

This. Admittedly, I used to not like The Crystal Empire much, even as it's nowhere near as good as this special, but the problem was never Sombra. He just never got his chance to shine until now. His effectiveness here was at its peak. His strategy was flawless, the only reason he lost was because he was not willing to put aside his pride and work together with others, tying in perfectly with Grogar's plan for the season.  

[RulesofRarity 489]

6 minutes ago, CloudMistDragon said:

This. Admittedly, I used to not like The Crystal Empire much, even as it's nowhere near as good as this special, but the problem was never Sombra. He just never got his chance to shine until now. His effectiveness here was at its peak. His strategy was flawless, the only reason he lost was because he was not willing to put aside his pride and work together with others, tying in perfectly with Grogar's plan for the season.   

I adore TCE but you are absolutely right about Sombra. We saw shades of his intelligence back in season 3 and it was fully realized here! I'm so hoping he comes back later on.

[Ganondox 899]

I loved Cozy Glow, she was actually cute this episode, the friendship statue was the best. I think it's pretty obvious how the series finale is going to role out -> Grogar's plan will be successful, but the villain trio are going to form a genuine friendship and defeat him, probably by working with the mane six. I'm also guessing he's going to betray them once he get's his bell back, they wouldn't have mentioned it if it's not going to play some sort of role. I hope we get a three parter for the finale, with the first two episodes being action packed, and the finale being a slice of life epilogue. 

Overall, this episode was pretty good, main issue I found it a tad bit heavy on the expository dialogue. It also had several plotholes, but plugging them would probably have contributed more to the first problem, so here are my attempts are closing them: 

1. First, the longest period of harmony in recent years doesn't make much sense on the surface, but it's probably implying that there has been more time in-universe between seasons this time than any other. 

2. The fact that the Crystal Heart didn't repel Sombra this time. This one can also be resolved easily, it's due to him being a corporeal form this time around after Grogar resurrected him. 

3. Why did Sombra survive the first harmony blast, but was killed by the second one? This one is trickier, and I have two solutions aside from blind luck, commulative damage, or the second blast being inexplicably more powerful, none of which I find to be satisfying. First is that Sombra was killed, but Grogar revived him again (as he was implying he would do after Sombra failed), but Sombra managed to sneak away without being sent back into the darkness as he also promised if he refused to obey. The issue with this is it seems to be a bit much to assume without seeing any of it. The other is that Sombra was just pretending to be harmony blasted the first time, but actually managed to evade it. The problems with this is it doesn't match the visuals shown, and that it doesn't explain why he did it the first time, but not the second. My headcanon is that he was killed and revived, but I'm getting the impression that writers intended the latter. 

4. The next plothole is how did Sombra know where the tree was so he could take it out? The solution to this depends on the solution to the previous problem. If he was revived by Grogar, he could have learned from Chrysalis before sneaking away. If he evaded defeat, he could have stalked the mane six in the shadows. 

5. Why would the pillars know how to take care of the Everfree when Discord planted the plunderseeds after the tree was grown? It appears that overgrowth of the Everfree Forest is an issue independent of the plunderseeds, which is supported by the fact that no plunder vines could be seen here, and apparently even without the elements the tree could hold back the Everfree. This means overgrowth of the Everfree Forest was a problem before the pillars assembled, so who knows what that implies. Maybe we'll get more answers relating to this next episode, as it relates to the destruction of the tree, and this problem was not resolved with the defeat of Sombra. 

6. Lastly, why could the mane six invoke the power of the elements without the physical objects in this case, but not others? It appears that the spirit of the tree survived even though it's body was destroyed, and it then entered Twilight, notice the resemblance during her attack on Sombra. This also fits back with the series premiere, as the destruction of the previous physical form freed their essence so they could be reborn again. We're certainly going to get more information on this next episode, one of the teasers showed the student six being imbued with the powers of the elements. 

[Ganondorf8 11,118]

We all knew that Grogar would finally make his appearance in generation four and I must say that his design looks almost identical to that of his generation one appearance minus the red glowing eyes, larger head, and shorter height in general. I also like how they retained his magic bell as the source of his power though his backstory needed to be expanded upon just a bit further as right now there are some gaping holes to be found in it. To me, Grogar is the villain we've been needing, one who is ancient and whose power exceeds that of most conventional means. Freeing anyone from Tartarus is proof that his power must be taken seriously even if it was a mere summoning spell he used. I do wish we'd been given more time with him and the other villains instead of so much with King Sombra but then this premiere needed a main antagonist and Sombra turned out to be the one.

Speaking of Sombra, while his new voice will take some getting used to, his personality is pretty much a typical villain trope where he desires for one thing only to seek out a much grander prize resulting in him overplaying the hand he had resulting in his eventual defeat. I'll give him props for destroying the Tree of Harmony and the Elements of Harmony as the latter had become way too much of a deus ex machina in recent years. Surprised no other villain ever considered doing this but I suspect Grogar would've done it himself once his power had reached its full amount.

In terms of what happened in these two episodes, the plot was pretty predictable though I enjoyed the various expressions, sad moments, and the callbacks to both previous seasons and villains. Predictability has pretty much become entrenched within the show's makeup considering what its intended age group is so it's something that can't really be used as a criticism if it ever had been to begin with. Yes, even Sombra's eventual defeat was to be expected so again predictability is part of what the show has. Celestia and Luna retiring was never going to happen as it's a status quo change too big to not get noticed but perhaps the comics could flesh it out as a possible what-if scenario just to see what they can do with it. Now that I think about it for a moment, I wonder if Discord is aware of Grogar's existence. I'm also surprised that no one bothered to ask Sombra how he came back from being banished to the ether. It's not a missed opportunity as it can be brought up later but you have to wonder why it never came up.

Twilighting… Fandom, make this a meme and do it quickly. That's all I have to say about that little bit.

Celestia and Luna were useful this time and the Mane Six mentioned how they felt they weren't. No doubt the writers are aware of what the fandom has been saying and decided to include this as poking fun at it.

Last thing I want to mention are the other villains. I'd bring up the Mane Six and what they went through but I'm sure others can say more about them better than I could and the analysts will obviously have their thoughts but I will say one thing. Twilight's freak out moments continue to be amazing though I think they went overboard this time as it was getting close to becoming agonizing to watch her lose it. Now... Cozy Glow wasn't as manipulating as she was in the season eight finale which to me feels like a regression. I did like how she tried her best to get Tirek and Chrysalis to find some common ground and it was cute how Tirek kept on brushing her off as though she were his conscious. Still, she felt out of place amongst the villains due to both appearance and mannerisms but she is amongst them as Grogar willed it to be. Tirek and Chrysalis haven't changed a bit though the latter is showing signs of losing what remains of her sanity with the former simply taking it all in stride knowing that his power is nothing compared to Grogar.

I'll give this season premiere 85%. It was good yes, but that usual predictability does bring the overall score down. 

[Steve Piranha 28,765]

58 minutes ago, TheTaZe said:

@Jeric

Gotcha covered

 

Beautiful, confident, badass. Our asocial nerdy horse has grown-up 

[Jeric 46,834]

Tweets are up! Apparently "Show me the muddy!" was an adlib by Tabby.

 

[Sparklefan1234 161,804]

Just now, Jeric said:

Tweets are up! Apparently "Show me the muddy!" was an adlib by Tabby.

 

See? Rarity LOVES being covered in mud. 

[Ganondox 899]

7 minutes ago, Ganondorf8 said:

Speaking of Sombra, while his new voice will take some getting used to, his personality is pretty much a typical villain trope where he desires for one thing only to seek out a much grander prize resulting in him overplaying the hand he had resulting in his eventual defeat.

I didn't like Sombra's voice in the animatics, but I found it to work really well in the actual show. I think it's the contrast with Grogar's voice that did it, it made Sombra sound cocky and proud rather than weak, emphasizing his youthful foolishness against Grogar's ancient wisdom. 

[Rebel the Wolfgirl 5,585]

Funniest moment:

Cozy Glow - "Now say something nice about ponies!"

Chrysalis - "Never!"

[Ganondorf8 11,118]

11 minutes ago, Ganondox said:

I didn't like Sombra's voice in the animatics, but I found it to work really well in the actual show. I think it's the contrast with Grogar's voice that did it, it made Sombra sound cocky and proud rather than weak, emphasizing his youthful foolishness against Grogar's ancient wisdom. 

Grogar's name along struck fear in all of the villains... except for Cozy Glow as she had no idea who he was.

[Misty Shadow 7,078]

15 minutes ago, Ganondox said:

Why did Sombra survive the first harmony blast, but was killed by the second one?

He's an immortal shadow.  He only "died" the second time because he was forced to accept defeat for real and Grogar forced him to uphold his end of the bargain, for "being defeated" the first time was just a trick so he could find the source of their power. 

 

 

[gingerninja666 487]

Just finished the episode.

Honestly, Sombra is actually consistant in one respect.

Both his appearances had him acting as part of some greater test for Twilight. In Crystal Empire he was a test by Tia and Luna. In this he was a test by Discord.

Really liked the two parter actually. There were some parts that felt off, like the whole confrontation with the mind controlled ponies outside of Canterlot. But the strength of the scenes that were good easily carried it. The cast knowing how to interact with Twilight’s twilighting. Starlight’s attempt to calm Twi down, the league of evil, Sombra’s defiance, Starswirl wrecking shit, Discord’s speech (he was right, that WAS a phenomenal speech. It almost got me EVEN THOUGH I KNEW IT WAS FAKE), Pinkie’s reaction to the Cakes being zombiefied.

Also, even though a staircase acknowledgement by Sombra was likely never in the cards, I loved that he made a staircase to break into Cadance’s castle.

[Ayvid_Reader 77]

Thank Celestia, it's finally here and I loved it!!

[Cadance of Love 1,118]

I honestly feel that Shining Armor and Cadance could have just teleported Flurry Heart out of Sombra's grasp and send him backing without the mane 6 coming in with the Elements of Harmony..Even with the brainwashed ponies they could have just teleported them elsewhere or just keep them out of the fight..but Shining Armor did the Pot device thing and stopped Cadance from doing that.. It could have been 3 against one and I don't think Sombra could withstand all three.. Also If they can dig out of that makeshift cell then why couldn't they just fly out of it or just Teleport.. and then Twilight Teleported them to the Castle when they were just outside Canterlot.. Twilight..why do you use teleportation as a last resort? smh.. Despite those parts though.. it was a fun Episode with Discord finally having something to do in these villain fights even if he was faking part of it.. Twilighting (and Starlighting for that matter) is one of the best parts to come out of this Final Premier.. the other being this picture 

[SasQ 1,355]

A couple of hours since the premiere and so many comments here already!

I'll start by answering some of them first, then I'll write my own thoughts on the episode...

5 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

So this is the best ultimate dark lord our glorious writers could come up with? Grogar the grumpy executive? His presence is rather underwhelming.

I think his overall appearance might be deceiving ;>  One could say the same about Master Yoda ("An older-than-coal green midget in a worn off robe and funny bat ears? Pffft, yeah, I can handle him with my hands behind my bAAaayyayayayaaSyasfddfhd (zap!)"   After all, he managed to rule the entire Equestria under his dark evil reign for a while, didn't he? ;>  I think his greatest advantage might be experience, and a knack for strategic planning. He doesn't have to be the "muscles". He's the "head" (with a goatee ;> ).

5 hours ago, RulesofRarity said:

This is definitely the best premiere, if only because it acknowledged how useless Celestia and Luna have been throughout the entire series.

Hahah yeah, I loved that part too, and there were no better pony than Rainbow Dash to say that

5 hours ago, Myung said:

The princesses retiring came out of the blue.

Maybe they knew what's coming, so they put Twilight in charge so that they could camp someplace safe, as they usually do, and wait for the flurry (no pun intended) to end?

5 hours ago, Myung said:

The lesson about "having the elements within" is rehashed and has been covered multiple times. Just in the season 1 premiere in fact, Nightmare Moon destroys the elements but the Mane 6 realise the power is within them and defeat her.

True. The wirters seem to keep forgetting that, which is bad, because that's, like, the basic premise of the entire show :q
On the other hoof, if they can forget about that so easily, so can the Mane Six, I guess?..  :q

5 hours ago, Myung said:

Probably my least favourite premiere but maybe it just needs a rewatch.

I'd definitely go with the rewatch. This approach often changed my mind about some episodes that I considered bad at first. Even better would be to watch some reaction videos, because other people's alternative point of view often helps in seeing things from more than one point of view. That saved several episodes for me in the past.

5 hours ago, PoisonClaw said:

the Tree of Harmony is still dead, so that doesn't exactly solve the problem of the Everfree Forest quite yet.

Don't worry. As Starswirl said, the Pilars were taking care of it quite successfully in the past without the Elements being there yet

5 hours ago, Adamgreen said:

The best thing about this premiere is definitely Discord. His acting skill is subpar personally

Hahah yeah, he got me good that moment. Up until he laid down coughing and "dying" like every cliché tragic character ever Then I already knew he's faking it and why does he do that for But I gotta say, they played this scene very well, with him mentioning his "favourite pony" and Sombra immediately taking advantage of it by attacking that very pony  That's what makes a good bad villain It also fits his character very well: taking advantage over others by playing on their greatest fears and hitting them hard in the heart – the only thing he doesn't have himself.

5 hours ago, Adamgreen said:

Having him to fake his own injury just to get them to actually not depend on him to save the day

Yeah, that was very well-written too. He was like "Hey, you saved Equestria multiple times without my help, and even defeated ME once, and now you're pleading for MY help just because I'm around? Oh puh-leease, you can do better!" ;>

5 hours ago, Adamgreen said:

Besides Sombra unexpected voice

Whatever do you mean, Darling? His voice is FABULOUS!

5 hours ago, Adamgreen said:

and I do like the struggling moments where the mane 6 were despairing over their love ones being controlled by Sombra. It's nothing much, but I like that it's there

Yup, that was very precious moment, because it really shows how much they care about their friends and relatives, and that this is the thing that gives them their strength. I think it's a VERY important lesson for Humans too, because they don't seem to care much about each other these days. The usual approach is "As long as it doesn't concern me personally, I can't care less". The problem with such approach is that when it finally comes to a moment when it does concern them, there's too late, because there's no one left to help them :q  (and why should they, if they couldn't count on their help before?). "Divide and Conquer" – the same old strategy since thousands of years, and it always works :q

5 hours ago, Jon the VGNerd said:

This time, it was a permadeath, which I realized that King Sombra was indeed gone for good, which shows that Grogar isn't playing around.

I wouldn't be so sure :q I'm pretty sure he's already dead, and that's the point: he's like an evil spirit, immaterial and indestructible. You can defeat him and send him back to hell for a while, but you may be sure he will return, as soon as he will come up with a new plan.

5 hours ago, Treeglow Flicker said:

Also, I now want a log with a changeling's face drawn on it.

Talk to this guy

OK so much for now, on to the next chunk...

[Castle Bleck 19,164]

On 4/6/2019 at 4:58 PM, CloudMistDragon said:

His strategy was flawless,

Admittedly, I did like his "Fake defeat, then follow them to the Tree Of Harmony" idea.

#XanatosSpeedChess

Edited September 30, 2020 by Anti-Villain

[Ganondox 899]

1 hour ago, CloudMistDragon said:

He's an immortal shadow.  He only "died" the second time because he was forced to accept defeat for real and Grogar forced him to uphold his end of the bargain, for "being defeated" the first time was just a trick so he could find the source of their power. 

 

 

Oh yes, being an immortal shadow creature is why he needed Grogar to revive him...

[Goat-kun 2,496]

9 minutes ago, SasQ said:

I think his overall appearance might be deceiving ;>  One could say the same about Master Yoda ("An older-than-coal green midget in a worn off robe and funny bat ears? Pffft, yeah, I can handle him with my hands behind my bAAaayyayayayaaSyasfddfhd (zap!)"   After all, he managed to rule the entire Equestria under his dark evil reign for a while, didn't he? ;>  I think his greatest advantage might be experience, and a knack for strategic planning. He doesn't have to be the "muscles". He's the "head" (with a goatee ;> ).

1. He was defeated by having his MacGuffin stolen.

2. He's a well-know G1 villain so he can't even hide his power level, yet his design is leaning to the lame side.

3. He ported some idiots from a cave, used a Palantir, and fed a hungry centaur. Oh my, so powerful!

4. And he's so big brain he wants to defeat Twilight instead of countering the magic that makes her a threat in the first place. It doesn't matter how many Twilights you capture if you can't go against Harmony. I'd appreciate a villain who could challenge magic itself rather than having a rage boner for a single insignificant pony. He's just another one of "I want to rule!" posers. It's just that he's doing it a little bit better than the half-wits known as FIM villains.

 

P.S: Inb4 some big brain realist slams their intellectual sausage down and exclaims it's all just a kid show. Well, allow me to clap in advance. Then explain to me why he looks like shit no kid would buy or get out of my sight. I do not feel charitable today.

[Cash In 21,498]

Now that was a premiere.

Sombra's return and Grogar making his appearance was something that I already knew, but it actually happening, gave me goosebumps. The concept of the villains joining forces is rather intimidating, though it's a concept which will bound to lead to an epic confrontation.

The foundation of the Mane 6's power being the power of friendship is something we already knew, so I was surprised it had to be reiterated again. That said, Discord's speech did come from a good place, despite him faking his pain. Now that the Mane 6 knows this, hopefully they'll put this knowledge to effective use.

I don't have any criticisms, though I initially thought that King Sombra was defeated too quickly, though it was all a ruse. This episode has set the bar pretty high for me, so you can bet that I'm looking forward to the rest of the season. 

[RaphLuna 305]

To be honest the three on the end might get reformed.and Join Twilight. to Defeat Grogar.

How do I know this. Easy their nervous chuckles, that sets off bells that they too fear Grogar. True Sombra Stood up for himself. The three saw what happens when you defy Grogar  Look how quick  he was to threaten Sombra for stepping out of line,

Grogar talks about teamwork. However I would not be surprised if he uses them to his advantage. To get his bell back.

Grogar says he hopes with the help of the three it would be enough. However I feel Grogar is still going to need King Sombra and be forced to redirect him again.

The more in their Group of Evil Friend the better.  Then again its Obvious Twilight  and her Friends will Win...

Wonder how long its going to take the Evil Vilinas to split the Group up, that they will stand a better chance at success.

Weak Fight Easy Defeat. Happened so quick

Still Grogar is Nothing Without his Bell which is the Ultimate Source of his Magical Powers.

True he managed to  get his magic Stronger. yet he is limited and reachers out to the other evils for help..

Some Villians.. He is noting without their help. Weakling.

[Megas 27,056]

It's been a while since I enjoyed a premiere this much. Admittedly the pacing was really quick but that's my only negative. The rest was just the Mane 6 getting to be awesome as a group and the villains getting to be their own kind of goofy antics(especially Tirek, Cozy and Chrysalis), and Sombra was delightfully hammy and corny

 

Also RIP Seige of the Crystal Empire, no one will miss you

[JH24 385]

That was a great premiere. There were some weaker scenes, especially in the second part, but the other scenes more than made up for it. Loved Discord's mentor role in this one, and it was great to see the other Mane 6 (besides Fluttershy) actually caring about Discord and showing emotions. That speech was very well done.

I'm really liking the premise of Grogar and his "league of villains." I'm keeping my fingers crossed this season will give some more depth to Tirek, Cozy and Chrysalis. 

King Sombra was great too. I was impressed with his voice actor, especially his final scene before he was (brutally) destroyed by the Mane 6. You could actually hear the fear and panic in his voice. 

 

Edited April 6, 2019 by JH24