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Pony punishment- Adults vs children & neurological implications


ManaMinori
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Ok, so after the season finale of "School Raze" (and before, thanks to early airings in other countries), the issue was raised among a few fans that Crazy Glue shouldn't have wound up in Tartarus, because "she's a child". What I want to know, however, is- does age matter if the actions of the pony  or villain in question is deserving of harsher punishment, and the one committing crimes is unrepentant of their actions? Nightmare Moon was our first villain in FiM, and she- as an adult fully aware of her actions and their consequences- remained unrepentant and wound up banished for 1,000 years on the moon, completely removed from ponykind and in utter isolation on a cold, desolate rock in space. Discord- also an adult- who made very adult decisions to turn Equestria upside-down and rule over them with chaos until Luna and Celestia stepped up- found himself being turned to stone for 1,000 years and kept in the Canterlot Gardens, but still capable of seeing and hearing what went on around him, which seems a lot like a form of torture. Sombra was turned to shadow for 1,000 years in isolation under the ice of the frozen north, completely cut off from anyone else. And before I go further- let's just elucidate on what complete isolation does to someone's mentality.

https://solitarywatch.org/2014/08/04/what-solitary-confinement-does-to-the-human-brain/

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20140514-how-extreme-isolation-warps-minds

https://science.howstuffworks.com/life/inside-the-mind/emotions/isolation-effects.htm

https://newrepublic.com/article/113176/science-loneliness-how-isolation-can-kill-you

(I HIGHLY suggest these studies are read and understood)

In a nutshell, extended periods of isolated confinement have produced severe psychological symptoms, and left deep and often permanent psychological scars.

Now we look at Crazy Glue and her punishment- locked in a cage within the bowels of Tartarus....alongside Tirek. Was it a stupid move? YES, definitely, and I struggle to comprehend why the ponies- who know of Tirek's association with Crazy Glue from the outside, put them in cages in close proximity to one another, to conspire again and wreak havoc a second time (for Crazy Glue. Third strike for Tirek). And this might be the very reason why. Though Crazy Glue remained unrepentant and her own (very adult) decisions and actions lander her a nice, cold place in Tartarus, the ponies- having shown  a preference for extended mercy on many occasion before- though only to the repentant ones- didn't want to risk the neurological destruction of a child by putting her in completer isolation, and the 'safer' option was, in fact, putting her close to Tirek, though it could possibly spell Equestria's demise yet again.

Edited by Nightmare Muffin
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Not convinced Crazy Glue IS a child - school of friendship seems be more of a college, for those who have already graduated from miss cheerilee's classes, and CG should be of an age with them. 

Nor am I convinced Tartarus is her final punishment - it seems more like a jail, which can be both for serving out a sentence of incarceration, and as a holding pen pre-trial. Also surprised the chimeras are held there - it would seem reasonable for Fluttershy to work with them with an aim to eventual redemption, than indefinite jailing...

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Heh heh, Crazy Glue. I can tell there are fellow "MLP In a Nutshell" fans here. :P This is actually a pretty intelligent argument against the whole "they were being too harsh on Cozy" spiel. Like, seriously, compared to what the other villains got, she had it pretty easy. She essentially just got the same punishment as Tirek for the same evil plan, trying to drain everyone's magic to take over Equestria. :nom:

Edited by CloudMistDragon
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27 minutes ago, CloudMistDragon said:

Heh heh, Crazy Glue. I can tell there are fellow "MLP In a Nutshell" fans here. :P This is actually a pretty intelligent argument against the whole "they were being too harsh on Cozy" spiel. Like, seriously, compared to what the other villains got, she had it pretty easy. She essentially just got the same punishment as Tirek for the same evil plan, trying to drain everyone's magic to take over Equestria. :nom:

She also got the cage right next to her mentor, so she could get her revenge plot started early...

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6 minutes ago, Cypherhoof said:

She also got the cage right next to her mentor, so she could get her revenge plot started early...

Mentor? That's a strong word for a dude who only praised Cozy's intentions and vaguely guided her to find an artificial way to absorb Equestrian magic. Cozy did most of it alone.

Back to this entry's topic, I think the over reaction about sending Cozy Glow to Tartarus is founded on the belief that this is a close-to-reality show. It is not, it is a silly fantasy show.

Why was Cozy Glow sent to Tartarus? Because she put Equestria on danger to satisfy her ambition and is still pursuing it.

Asking for Cozy to be treated as a real world child is not how it works. We didn't see Ponyville suing Pinkie Pie for the 'Too Many Pinkie Pies' incident or Cloudsdale suing Dash for destroying the weather factory. This is a silly fantasy world! Pinkie was just trying to have fun and Dash only wanted to spend winter with her pet, they get a pass. Cozy wanted to exploit friendship to become an empress and committed treason to achieve her goals, she was still after that goal once her plot had been discovered, she doesn't get a pass.

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11 hours ago, DonMaguz said:

Mentor? That's a strong word for a dude who only praised Cozy's intentions and vaguely guided her to find an artificial way to absorb Equestrian magic. Cozy did most of it alone.

Back to this entry's topic, I think the over reaction about sending Cozy Glow to Tartarus is founded on the belief that this is a close-to-reality show. It is not, it is a silly fantasy show.

Why was Cozy Glow sent to Tartarus? Because she put Equestria on danger to satisfy her ambition and is still pursuing it.

Asking for Cozy to be treated as a real world child is not how it works. We didn't see Ponyville suing Pinkie Pie for the 'Too Many Pinkie Pies' incident or Cloudsdale suing Dash for destroying the weather factory. This is a silly fantasy world! Pinkie was just trying to have fun and Dash only wanted to spend winter with her pet, they get a pass. Cozy wanted to exploit friendship to become an empress and committed treason to achieve her goals, she was still after that goal once her plot had been discovered, she doesn't get a pass.

I really hate the 'But it's a Fahntusy' argument.  That's a crutch I see used in cartoons and video games all too often to avoid having a real discussion.  Not only that, but in your post you made the argument for us.  Adult characters have done terrible things in the series, and more often than not they get off scott free.  Yet a child does bad things and gets locked up in Tartarus for it, even though the reason she was able to do said things is because the MacGuffin was left unguarded.  Seems kind of unbalanced.

As I've said in other topics, I think the mistake was making her a kid to begin with.

Edited by SBaby
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4 hours ago, SBaby said:

I really hate the 'But it's a Fahntusy' argument.

You hating it doesn't make it any less true.

 

4 hours ago, SBaby said:

That's a crutch I see used in cartoons and video games all too often to avoid having a real discussion.

It's ok to discuss it as a speculation, FiM is not only fantasy, it is fantasy targeted to children.

There are people claiming how outrageous is to send a child to "the equivalent of hell" and I agree with them, but it doesn't apply to Cozy's case because:

a) Cozy acts like a child only for manipulating purposes, her honest actions are those of a cunning adult.

b) Equestrian Tartarus is not actually a hell, like its greek namesake, but a sort of maximum security prison as we're shown in the finale.

c) The show has taken the repentance road so many times already that its general message about the topic should have hit home by now, meaning that a character willing to show remorse and own its mistakes will be praised and forgiven while one that throws away the opportunity and keeps pursuing its selfish ambitions will be punished in one way or another.

 

4 hours ago, SBaby said:

Not only that, but in your post you made the argument for us.  Adult characters have done terrible things in the series, and more often than not they get off scott free.  Yet a child does bad things and gets locked up in Tartarus for it, even though the reason she was able to do said things is because the MacGuffin was left unguarded.  Seems kind of unbalanced.

I've written in my point 'c' why I didn't make an argument for you, on the contrary I'm saying why such argument doesn't apply.

 

4 hours ago, SBaby said:

As I've said in other topics, I think the mistake was making her a kid to begin with.

I think that Cozy Glow being a filly doesn't make sense because of her actions, I would be ok with an 'Orphan' twist (the movie, not Cozy being an actual orphan).

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3 hours ago, DonMaguz said:

I think that Cozy Glow being a filly doesn't make sense because of her actions, I would be ok with an 'Orphan' twist (the movie, not Cozy being an actual orphan).

I see this come up every once in awhile in these topics.  The thing is while I do think they might do this, if they go this route, it'll be obvious that they're doing so because they chickened out.  Regardless of what anyone thinks about the ethics of sending a child to Hell, the fact remains that it does give us subject matter that could easily be explored in Season 9.  Characters may all have their opinions on the matter, and many of them might have perfectly valid reasons for feeling the way they do.  Take it a step further.  Have the ponies start questioning other decisions that the Princesses have made in the past.  After all, who are THEY to tell them what justice is and isn't when they conveniently disappear so often during major crises?

3 hours ago, DonMaguz said:

c) The show has taken the repentance road so many times already that its general message about the topic should have hit home by now, meaning that a character willing to show remorse and own its mistakes will be praised and forgiven while one that throws away the opportunity and keeps pursuing its selfish ambitions will be punished in one way or another.

I can't say you're wrong about this.  But the fact of the matter is the only reason we're seeing these topics is because she's a kid and she was put in the worst prison in the world, while we know for a fact that there are other places she could have been put where she could repay society.  You know, places that DON"T HAVE A MAIN VILLAIN RIGHT NEXT TO HER?

Edited by SBaby
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43 minutes ago, SBaby said:

I can't say you're wrong about this.  But the fact of the matter is the only reason we're seeing these topics is because she's a kid and she was put in the worst prison in the world, while we know for a fact that there are other places she could have been put where she could repay society.  You know, places that DON"T HAVE A MAIN VILLAIN RIGHT NEXT TO HER?

Clearly this is going to backfire on everyone, but Cozy being placed in Tartarus is at least portrayed as a relatively secure location. Tirek was there for millenia before escaping.

The dangerous thing about Cozy Glow is that she's a schemer and she's unassuming. I feel like if you placed her in a more populated or open jail she'd just secretly sweet talk someone into helping her. It seems to be quite literally her special talent. Tartarus is contained to some degree.

It's very harsh (maybe too harsh), but them sending her there is a rare case of the cast not totally underestimating someone. They put her in the same realm of threat level as Tirek.

Edited by gingerninja666
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On ‎10‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 10:28 AM, gingerninja666 said:

Clearly this is going to backfire on everyone, but Cozy being placed in Tartarus is at least portrayed as a relatively secure location. Tirek was there for millenia before escaping.

Relatively secure, yet Tirek managed to escape and it was awhile before anyone noticed it.

On ‎10‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 10:28 AM, gingerninja666 said:

I feel like if you placed her in a more populated or open jail she'd just secretly sweet talk someone into helping her. It seems to be quite literally her special talent.

Yeah, like she's doing with Tirek.  So why would you put her next to the most dangerous villain in Equestria?  That's literally asking for trouble and all it does is further question the competence of the ones in charge.  I don't know.  Maybe that's the point.  An incompetent bureaucrat overlooks a critical detail and it causes a disaster.

Unless she's undercover and has something planned with the mane six where they're trying to get information from Tirek, I don't really see the wisdom in her being bunkmates with the character that is essentially the FiM equivalent of Cell.

Edited by SBaby
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