What is "canon"?

[ManaMinori 4,143]

I see a lot of debate from this fandom on what is and isn't 'canon'. Some say that the animated tv show is the only canon, while others say that anything that she show references is canon if it fits within the show's canon (MLP movie/ Pinkie Pie and the Rockin' Ponypalooza Party book being canon if show mentions it), while others still (such as myself) think that all official MLP media (comics, books, movies, tv show) is canon. What do you guys consider canon? Should fans hold what various staff say as the ultimate truth on what is and isn't canon, if it seems staff working on various aspects of MLP (comic, movie, show) cannot seem to agree on the subject? is there even a 'right' or 'wrong' canon, and all of this is a pointless, time-wasting debate?

[Arkadios 91]

It's all pointless debate.

This is a pony show. Just let me watch the pretty ponies.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Arkadios

[Fhaolan 4,468]

Being 'in canon' is a lot like someone acting 'in character', in my opinion. It's an assumption that the viewer makes in order to make a cohesive narrative from disparate sources. And by sources, I mean the creators themselves, not the different types of media. Writer 'X' will craft a story based on their own headcanon, irregardless of whether they are doing it when paid by Hasbro or for their own enjoyment. 

And also consider that the writers don't control the final product. No one person really does.For example, I was at Babscon a couple of years ago at a panel for some of the comic artists. I asked them if the comics were a true collaborative effort between the artists and writers with the script and art bouncing back and forth between them, basically what was the comic workflow. And one guy said, "I use the Marvel Method. I get a general outline/plot from the writers, I do the layout and drawings, and then send it back to the writers to add dialog. Each time it's a single hand-off, no 'could you change this?' stuff going on. There's no time for that." Another said, "I get a script, then I draw whatever I want. The writers don't get a say in it once they pass the ball to me. And then the Letterer can make up dialog to replace what I've penciled in."

The TV show is... slightly more regulated, as I understand it... but only slightly. The 'Showrunner' is really the only one in the right place to be tracking and correcting canon, and they've got a lot of other things they need to be doing that are more important.

[EpicEnergy 22,074]

What do I consider canon? Well, not any fan-made material, Equestria Girls, or the comics. I only consider the TV show and the movie to be canon.

1 hour ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

is there even a 'right' or 'wrong' canon, and all of this is a pointless, time-wasting debate?

Look at it this way: what happens when fan A who only considers the TV show canon and not the comics gets in a debate about MLP with fan B who considers both to be canon, and some of fan B's arguments are based off data provided the comics? I know that's confusing, feel free to re-read it, but it's to make a point - what people consider canon is important, it is not a waste of time. I have personally experienced this, because I was fan A.

Edited November 14, 2018 by EpicEnergy

[DonMaguz 1,023]

On creative works with multiple authors, such as G4 MLP, I consider what's been released as 'canon'. This means that whatever the writers/artists/executives post on Twitter or other media would not be considered canon. 

So, what happens when different official media (FiM, EQG, comics, books, etc.) release contradictory events? That would mean each media follows its own canonical path.

[Oleks 1,983]

I’ve always considered “canon” as something tiered:

1. The show and the movie are “the main canon”: MLP FiM is self-evidently canon, and the movie has been explicitly referenced in it numerous times.
2. Equestria Girls is officially canon (even though some people don’t like it), but skipping it won’t make any difference to understanding of the main series – at this point at least.
3. Comics and books are “secondary canon”, as they explain “comics should be canon to the show, but the show is not obliged to be canon to the comics”, and thus the show can override anything that happened in them.
4. The word of God Lauren Faust. Jim Miller said that they try to stay true to her original ideas and even headcanons.
5. Generally accepted fanon: the show has already embraced so many fan theories (Derpy being a postmare, Doctor Whooves messing with time, Steven Magnet’s name, etc.) that they are basically nearly canon until proven otherwise. Although it is hard nowadays to understand which parts of fanon are “generally accepted”.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Oleks

[Gestum 2,493]

Personally, I only view the tv show and the movie as Cannon. 

[Arkadios 91]

7 minutes ago, Gestum said:

Personally, I only view the tv show and the movie as Cannon. 

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,151]

As it stands I look at it as A-canon and B-canon.

To me, A-canon is the show and the movie. They reference each other and both fit in with little complication.
-------I would also add in Equestria Girls considering how many times EqG references Equestria (equestrian magic being a main thing) and that characters still can travel from one area to the next (Sunset and Starlight); not to mention how EqG followed the series timeline pretty well (EqG 1 has Twilight with her wings (MMC), RR shows the castle (Twilight's Kingdom), FG has the post-credits scene with Princess Twilight mentioning time-related things (Cutie Re-Mark)). However you can choose to skip EqG and suffer no consequence from the show.

B-canon is any print material including comics & books. As such the comics CAN be canon, but only if it doesn't interfere with what the show has established. As such some stories no longer work (Nightmare Rarity, Reflections, FIENDship #3) while others are in severe question (FIENDship #5, Return of Queen Chrysalis).

[Denim&Venöm 16,503]

Cannon could be considered a history of the show within that universe. What is part of that universe and what isn't? What's fact or fiction. Anything else can be considered an alternate universe. It's a way of making sense of that world and it's stories. 

 

Cannon: Anything the show references or anything confirmed by the staff behind the show. 

• The show. Obviously.
• The movie. Despite it's plot holes, OOC behaviors and logic fallacies, S8 canonizes the movies events. 
• EQG, as confirmed in Shadow Play, with the Pillars banishing the Sirens. 
• The G.M. Berrow books. Don't contradict and have been confirmed by staff.

Non-cannon: Things contradicted or ignored within the show.

• Most of the comics, as they are contradicted by the show. See Twilight Velvet writing the Daring Do books vs. Daring Do writing her own books, banishment of the Sirens by the Pillars vs. by Starswirl himself or the original design and personality for Moondancer. 
• The show bible written by Faust. Several ideas are never used. IE: Twilight and Trixie going to the Celestia school together. Twi and Cheerilee being long time friends. Applejack headbutting trees to get apples, etc. 
• The toys. Princess Skyla existing, or her being Twilight and Prince Blueblood's daughter.
• Most fanfiction.
• Concept art. 

B-Cannon: Examples that are in a grey area until confirmed by the staff/show or denied/ contradicted.

• Specific comic arcs. Like the EQG specials or the comics related to the movie.
• The card game and all the tidbits of info it contains. 
• Deleted scenes from the show or movies. 
• Foreign publications, like the MLP manga.
• Technically some fanfiction.
• Misprints and errors. Bonbon being both an Earth Pony and a Pegasus. Doctor Whooves having both an American and British accent. Duplicate ponies in the show. Derpy's wall eye, until it was canonized. 

 

[Concerned Bystander 2,901]

I would say that you could probably argue that anything that happens in-universe in any of the officially-produced works to be canon so long as they do not conflict with the main series in any way.  The series would take primacy with the 'expanded universe' such as the comics and EQG as supplementary material.  For example, I would consider the 'Nightmare Rarity' story arc in the comics to be non-canon because it is inconceivable that such an event happened and was not brought up during DPDoMS.

For simplicity though I tend to view the cartoon as the only real canon material, even though I largely prefer the comics to the series there are many places where the stories just don't quite fit together.

[Goat-kun 2,498]

Mind creates it. Makes it grow. Its lore surrounds the characters and binds them. Imaginary beings are they, not this crude writing. You must feel the canon around them.

 

 

The One True Canon as it is used: colors and most basic character quirks. Everything else exists in flux within the time stream.

[DonMaguz 1,023]

27 minutes ago, Denim&Venom said:

• EQG, as confirmed in Shadow Play, with the Pillars banishing the Sirens.

People keep bringing that scene as if it was the strongest evidence when in reality is pretty bland. 

Equestria Girls can (and IMO should) be considered canon to FiM because:

1. FiM is canon to EQG without a doubt.
2. There's nothing in EQG (yet) that contradicts FiM's events.

But seriously, anyone watching only FiM would never know where did the siren monsters were sent through the pillars portal. The scene doesn't set anything in stone, and because of that it doesn't confirms EQG as canon without a doubt. It definitely helps strengthen its canonical status, but it could easily be dismissed if they needed to.

[Denim&Venöm 16,503]

19 minutes ago, DonMaguz said:

People keep bringing that scene as if it was the strongest evidence when in reality is pretty bland. 

Equestria Girls can (and IMO should) be considered canon to FiM because:

1. FiM is canon to EQG without a doubt.
2. There's nothing in EQG (yet) that contradicts FiM's events.

But seriously, anyone watching only FiM would never know where did the siren monsters were sent through the pillars portal. The scene doesn't set anything in stone, and because of that it doesn't confirms EQG as canon without a doubt. It definitely helps strengthen its canonical status, but it could easily be dismissed if they needed to.

Both your points would set it within my definition of B cannon. But then again lots of spinoffs, crossovers and other media reference primary show/movie/game events but aren't considered cannon. FiM is cannon in EQG, but it doesn't have to work the other way around. And nothing contradicting the events could still classify it as B cannon. 

And that scene is the only instance within the show itself of previously EQG exclusive characters making an appearance. Not once are the events beyond the portal mentioned. Heck, we never see the mirror portal at all. Up until that scene with the sirens, EQG could just have been an alternate reality spinoff. 

25 minutes ago, DonMaguz said:

anyone watching only FiM

That's on the individual, not the material. Whether someone watches it or not is irrelevant. Equestria Girls still happened, regardless of whether or not they watched.

[ManaMinori 4,143]

35 minutes ago, DonMaguz said:

People keep bringing that scene as if it was the strongest evidence when in reality is pretty bland. 

Equestria Girls can (and IMO should) be considered canon to FiM because:

1. FiM is canon to EQG without a doubt.
2. There's nothing in EQG (yet) that contradicts FiM's events.

But seriously, anyone watching only FiM would never know where did the siren monsters were sent through the pillars portal. The scene doesn't set anything in stone, and because of that it doesn't confirms EQG as canon without a doubt. It definitely helps strengthen its canonical status, but it could easily be dismissed if they needed to.

the main reason I see EG as canon is because it links Twilight's concerns about being a Princess in MMC to the conclusion of EG and what Principal Celestia tells her, and afterward- from the next season on, Twilight is pretty chill about her new role. .

[Ganondorf8 11,118]

The only ones who can say for certain as to what is and isn't canon would be Hasbro's executives, specifically, Stephen Davis, who generally serves as the overseer when it comes to anything MLP related. If he were to address the canonicity of generation four, his word would practically be deemed final given his position. In my own opinion, what I view as canon would be the show, Equestria Girls including its animated shorts, the movie, and the comics from issue 51 and onward of the main series and Legends of Magic and onward of the mini-series.

[DonMaguz 1,023]

44 minutes ago, Denim&Venom said:

Up until that scene with the sirens, EQG could just have been an alternate reality spinoff.

That's the thing, it can still be just an alternate reality. The fact that the characters were introduced in EQG first doesn't mean that they are the same characters (from an AU viewpoint).

I know it sounds like a cheap argument, but we're discussing confirmation of a canonical event. Should the portal had shown the EQG's world on the other side (think about Midnight Sparkle's portals to Equestria) the confirmation would have been solid, but since it was just the pillars sending the sirens into some random portal, FiM could well establish said portal leading to another place without clashing with the scene as it was presented.

[碇 シンジン 27,427]

Everything that you see as canon is canon. Canon is subjective at it's core and no one can force it objectively on people. Sure there are some general guidelines but it is up to you to decide if you follow them or not in the end 

[Denim&Venöm 16,503]

17 minutes ago, DonMaguz said:

That's the thing, it can still be just an alternate reality. The fact that the characters were introduced in EQG first doesn't mean that they are the same characters (from an AU viewpoint).

I know it sounds like a cheap argument, but we're discussing confirmation of a canonical event. Should the portal had shown the EQG's world on the other side (think about Midnight Sparkle's portals to Equestria) the confirmation would have been solid, but since it was just the pillars sending the sirens into some random portal, FiM could well establish said portal leading to another place without clashing with the scene as it was presented.

By that logic then, EQG might as well be B cannon. Not confirmed as part of the lore, but not denied either. There's nothing in FiM that solidifies or dismisses EqG as part of it's own universe, except that one moment with the sirens, which according to you isn't proof enough. 

[Arkadios 91]

6 minutes ago, Denim&Venom said:

By that logic then, EQG might as well be B cannon. Not confirmed as part of the lore, but not denied either. There's nothing in FiM that solidifies or dismisses EqG as part of it's own universe, except that one moment with the sirens, which according to you isn't proof enough. 

[Black Sabbath 2,484]

I only consider the show and the movie to ba canon. Mainly because I'm against the idea of making it so that you have to go out of your way and buy the comics and such to fully understand what's going on. 

 

[Buck Testa 5,503]

Canon v Non Canon really only plays a role when people are talking about really specific lore or if they are trying to determine feats. It really doesnt matter if you don't care about trying to make sense of a cartoon show and quantifying what they can do. You mostly see these kind of debates around Superheroes and combat oriented anime characters to see who would win in a fight. If those kind of discussions dont interest you, then keeping track of what is canon or not doesn't really matter.

[Steve Piranha 28,778]

I think it’s mostly a personal preference what to consider canon or not, unless the show blatantly debunk it like the case of the sirens. Case and point, the show has contradicted itself as well more than once. Remember when Flash Magnus was called “Flash Prance” and Meadowbrook was an easter unicorn ?