general Do men ever face sexism and double standards?

[ExplosionMare 18,007]

19 hours ago, Sunamena said:

Men also do face sexism. The sexism one faces depends on a whole sum of variables.
Bluntly sayd: How do you look? Where do you live (or what type of people do you run into). 
A very common form of sexism men face is: "You carry this because you are a man."
I must admit though, that I kinda find it very polite if a man does that for me, and sometimes politely ask if they want to do so for me.
But there are ladies who demand it on the basis of: "You are a man."
Which is in essence sexism. And I find such demands very impolite to be honest.

On a side note, both men and women can be victim(s) of abuse,
Men often feel scared to complain if they are in a relation with a girl. Because they might not be believed, or because everyone will make them a laughing stock.



As for double standards, many people have those. I disliked them but have seen them in both genders.

I’ll literally be carrying the lightest things and a man will want to help me. I appreciate it but I also don’t want people thinking I’m incapable of a little heavy lifting.

[Sunamena 426]

4 hours ago, ExplosionMare said:

I’ll literally be carrying the lightest things and a man will want to help me. I appreciate it but I also don’t want people thinking I’m incapable of a little heavy lifting.

Yes, but it is cute when they ask.
And polite.

[Pentium100 2,056]

How about this comparison:
40 year old male teacher sleeps with a 13 year old female student. "I hope he gets raped to death in prison!"
40 year old female teacher sleeps with a 13 year old male student. "Is that bad? I mean the teacher is kinda good-looking, the boy is so lucky! I wish I had such a teacher when I was 13."
And the woman would receive a much lighter sentence for the same crime.

Another comparison:
A man beats his wife - "the poor woman, we should offer shelter and help for her and he should go to prison"
A woman beats her husband - "What? You are letting a woman beat you? Man up!"
The husband in the second case finally hits his wife back - "How could you?! You do not raise your hand against a woman!"

Another is that "boys don't cry or complain". You either suck it up or solve the problem with fists (in which case you are in the wrong, if your problem was a woman). Or a rope, in which case you will be called a coward, but then you won't care anymore.

During a divorce, courts will more often side with the woman - give her custody of the children etc, unless the man proves that she is unfit for that (she is a criminal, drug addict etc). I would say that marriage is more risky for a man than taking out a loan and investing that in bitcoin.

Another interesting fact from my country is that by law, the police has to investigate all domestic abuse complaints and arrest the man (and then release him if there is no proof of that). So, imagine this - a married couple is separating and currently living in separate houses. The husband is at his home, maybe 10km away from his wife, watchign TV or something. The wife calls the cops and says that he is beating her, cops now have to go to the husbands house and arrest him, even though he was nowhere near his wife that day. After arresting him, they have to release him because, well, there is no proof that he did anything wrong.

[Splashee 28,537]

@Pentium100 I finally understand this topic now. Really good examples!

[Le Trotteur Sauvage 13,049]

A man ? Probably not.

A handsome pony like myself ? Oh boy all the time, mare are whistling at me in the street...sometimes even stallions 
I can't wear short clothes during summer without creating a crowd around me, ponies asking for my number, asking me out if I'm single etc...

A real nightmare.

[ExplosionMare 18,007]

13 hours ago, Sunamena said:

Yes, but it is cute when they ask.
And polite.

True

[Methuselah 291]

6 hours ago, Le Trotteur Sauvage said:

A man ? Probably not.

A handsome pony like myself ? Oh boy all the time, mare are whistling at me in the street...sometimes even stallions 
I can't wear short clothes during summer without creating a crowd around me, ponies asking for my number, asking me out if I'm single etc...

A real nightmare.

Yeah, I get catcalled sometimes too. Usually by women though, not mares 

Spoiler

a) I exaggerated how often it occurs b) It is annoying

 

[Le Trotteur Sauvage 13,049]

Just now, Methuselah said:

not mares

That's a problem. 

[Methuselah 291]

3 minutes ago, Le Trotteur Sauvage said:

That's a problem. 

I would be very unsettled if mares IRL started catcalling me  I'll take the annoying women, thanks.

[Le Trotteur Sauvage 13,049]

9 minutes ago, Methuselah said:

Yeah, I get catcalled sometimes too. Usually by women though

Let's be serious ^^ that's sucks I'm sorry for you and all the people that are catcalled in the street while just trying to mind their own business 

[Dark Qiviut 22,171]

On 5/5/2020 at 11:53 PM, Sunlight Glisten said:

Not to be sexist or anything but men don't complain. Those who do, are they really men? 

Yes. Men have a right to complain just as much as anyone else, and we can judge to ourselves whether their complaints have merit or not. The blanket “men shouldn’t complain” is pure pandering to sexist gender roles.

[Bastian 13,319]

I mean, we, bronies, male, were harassed for watching the show. A woman can like anything she wants, even manly stuff, but men can't like girly stuff.

[Methuselah 291]

4 minutes ago, Bastian said:

I mean, we, bronies, male, were harassed for watching the show. A woman can like anything she wants, even manly stuff, but men can't like girly stuff.

It's seen as cool if a girl likes boy stuff. It's seen as wrong if a boy likes girl stuff.

To add to that, a woman can wear just about anything she wants (I sure as heck wouldn't want to wear women's clothing though).

[Latecomer 438]

I can't believe that this question was asked on a brony forum...

For another example, I've heard unaccompanied men with children are treated far more suspicious than unaccompanied women.

On 5/7/2020 at 6:17 AM, Pentium100 said:

Another interesting fact from my country is that by law, the police has to investigate all domestic abuse complaints and arrest the man (and then release him if there is no proof of that). So, imagine this - a married couple is separating and currently living in separate houses. The husband is at his home, maybe 10km away from his wife, watchign TV or something. The wife calls the cops and says that he is beating her, cops now have to go to the husbands house and arrest him, even though he was nowhere near his wife that day. After arresting him, they have to release him because, well, there is no proof that he did anything wrong.

Is that more or less ridiculous than them having to arrest him if he's the victim?

 

[Mini 451]

did u know that by watching a show for little girls, most of society would say you're not a real man

which is pretty dumb since men should be able to watch whatever they want

[Splashee 28,537]

1 minute ago, Mini said:

most of society would say you're not a real man

I am a "plastic toy man", and I am proud!

[Pentium100 2,056]

Just now, Latecomer said:

Is that more or less ridiculous than them having to arrest him if he's the victim?

I honestly don't know what would happen if a man called the police and said that his wife was beating him. They probably would just laugh, because "we all know that 'domestic abuse' means a man beating a woman, well, maybe a grown-up beating a child". I know that if a woman complains about that the man gets arrested (even if he is living separately), because I know somebody who had this happen to him multiple times. The cops even know that the complaints are false, but still have to bey the law, so, essentially "hey man, your soon-to-be-ex called again, we have to take you to the station, sorry".

Just like in some jurisdictions the law does not accept that it is possible for a woman to rape a man (that is, "rape" defined as something that can only be done by a man). So, imagine a woman forcing you to have sex with her (or getting you drunk first - something that if a man did to a woman, it would be considered rape), then she gets pregnant and you having to pay child support.

Another example is the accusations of rape. I have a dim view of the MeToo crowd mainly because it uses "guilty until proven innocent" doctrine. Some woman said that man X forced her to have sex 40 years ago - it must be true. No evidence no nothing. How do we know that 1) the sex actually took place and 2) she did not initiate it to get a promotion etc? After all, "sleeping your way up" is a thing. Oh, and if the accused somehow manages to prove that he is innocent (even though the law says that the burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused), his reputation is tarnished and the accuser is not punished. In some cases he may be proven innocent after he was sent to prison. Again, nothing happens to the accuser most of the time.

I actually know of a woman who falsely accused a man of raping her, the man (a taxi driver) being in poor health, died in prison. Her reason for the accusation? "Well, my friend and I were late to come back home so to avoid my mother yelling at me, I just said that the taxi driver who took us home raped us".

 

While bronies get some crap for watching MLP, at least this is not that consequential - you can just watch the show in private etc. The other examples are much more serious.

[Fluttershyfan94 5,738]

@Pentium100 That was genuinely difficult to read as I know sadly a lot of that is not only true but what is perhaps most scary is that you can be accused of a crime without any ability to defend yourself. Only because of the fact you were born male I do wonder if that woman ever knew what happened to the guy she accused of that heinous crime.

While I don't doubt that metoo did a lot of positive I feel like if men had done it all they'd have gotten is being laughed at if anything. What do you mean bro you were lucky she did it, is the mindset sadly. 

Men can not really rely on anyone else but themselves and this is the world we live in my friends. 

 

[Pentium100 2,056]

Just now, Fluttershyfan94 said:

I do wonder if that woman ever knew what happened to the guy she accused of that heinous crime.

Yes, she does. I do not remember exactly, but maybe she confessed to falsely accusing him after she was told that he died in prison. I also know that her husband did not like finding that out about his wife, though I do not know if he divorced her or not.

 

As for metoo - IIRC some woman accused Joe Biden of raping her many years ago. Now, I am not a fan of Biden, I think he is corrupt and if I lived in the US I would not vote for him. However, to me it looks like this - the woman waited for precisely the right time to to the most damage with no evidence. I mean there is not evidence and he has good lawyers, so he would be cleared of the charges (unlike the taxi driver), but the damage is done - if he loses because of that, there won't be a repeat of the election.

Same with the woman who accused the Supreme Court candidate - again, decided to come forward at the right time to do the most damage with no evidence. Well, at least she did not get her wish and the guy was approved.

Here's the thing - the law works kind-of correctly for most of the other crimes - "innocent until proven guilty" and all that, but in these cases it becomes similar to how it was when Stalin was in power - you got accused of "being a revolutionary/nationalist/not loving Stalin enough" and you (with your family) go to the Gulag, no trial or anything. Oh and the person who accused you can help himself to your things. 

[Latecomer 438]

1 hour ago, Pentium100 said:

 

Here's the thing - the law works kind-of correctly for most of the other crimes - "innocent until proven guilty" and all that, but in these cases it becomes similar to how it was when Stalin was in power - you got accused of "being a revolutionary/nationalist/not loving Stalin enough" and you (with your family) go to the Gulag, no trial or anything. Oh and the person who accused you can help himself to your things. 

Except that it doesn't - rape conviction rates are terrible. If some people are too eager to believe, iv's an overreaction to way too many people rushing to disbelieve most of the time.

[Petrus 696]

I think we can face those things sometimes although rare. Its probably just not NEARLY as much as women do.

[ExplosionMare 18,007]

On 5/7/2020 at 1:17 AM, Pentium100 said:

How about this comparison:
40 year old male teacher sleeps with a 13 year old female student. "I hope he gets raped to death in prison!"
40 year old female teacher sleeps with a 13 year old male student. "Is that bad? I mean the teacher is kinda good-looking, the boy is so lucky! I wish I had such a teacher when I was 13."
And the woman would receive a much lighter sentence for the same crime.

Another comparison:
A man beats his wife - "the poor woman, we should offer shelter and help for her and he should go to prison"
A woman beats her husband - "What? You are letting a woman beat you? Man up!"
The husband in the second case finally hits his wife back - "How could you?! You do not raise your hand against a woman!"

Another is that "boys don't cry or complain". You either suck it up or solve the problem with fists (in which case you are in the wrong, if your problem was a woman). Or a rope, in which case you will be called a coward, but then you won't care anymore.

During a divorce, courts will more often side with the woman - give her custody of the children etc, unless the man proves that she is unfit for that (she is a criminal, drug addict etc). I would say that marriage is more risky for a man than taking out a loan and investing that in bitcoin.

Another interesting fact from my country is that by law, the police has to investigate all domestic abuse complaints and arrest the man (and then release him if there is no proof of that). So, imagine this - a married couple is separating and currently living in separate houses. The husband is at his home, maybe 10km away from his wife, watchign TV or something. The wife calls the cops and says that he is beating her, cops now have to go to the husbands house and arrest him, even though he was nowhere near his wife that day. After arresting him, they have to release him because, well, there is no proof that he did anything wrong.

The last thing you said sounds so stupid. Women can be just as guilty and there’s no need to arrest the man every time if he hasn’t done anything!

19 hours ago, Mini said:

did u know that by watching a show for little girls, most of society would say you're not a real man

which is pretty dumb since men should be able to watch whatever they want

They also think that makes them pedophiles, too. Like, the only reason they would watch little girl’s shows is to get inside the minds of the target audience 

[Justin_Case001 4,855]

Of course men face sexism and double standards.  Everyone does.  But I won't pretend that men's problems in this area have been as bad as women's historically.  Women have been the ones that have been denied rights and abused far more.  No denying that.  I'm not trivializing the female experience, nor do I actually know anything about what it's like to be female firsthand.  And, of course, if one is extremely unlucky, being born female is certain parts of the world is basically a prison sentence.  But being male isn't always sugar and rainbows, either.

I certainly can't speak for others, but I can speak for myself and my own experience.  I'm very lucky, and I'm extremely grateful for my good fortune.  I don't want to sound ungrateful by complaining, but I actually hate being male, and wish everyday that I had been born female.  I'm a male who does not fit well into the box and gender roles provided for me.  It can be very difficult for males like me.  Here are some clear examples of unfair double standards that men face: it's far easier for girls and women to do or to like masculine things, or to wear masculine clothing than vice versa.  A feminine man who wants to partake in traditionally feminine activities, or, Celestia forbid, wear a dress (gasp! ) will face enormous criticism and opposition, whereas women who want to be an auto-mechanic, a football coach, or who have short hair and like to only wear jeans and t-shirts not only have a smoother road ahead of them, they are often held up as heroes who are fighting the power to be their true selves.  This personality embrace often appears to be unidirectional.

I'm not saying that women with short hair who want to play football don't get crap for that, too (probably more from other women than from men), but I don't believe it's comparable to the flak men get if they want to be more feminine.  It all seems to be rooted in this idea that becoming more masculine is a good thing, but becoming more feminine (if you're male), is a bad thing.  This is obviously insulting to women from the get-go.  Society seems to send this message that women are heroic for breaking out of their gender roles and doing more male things, but boys and men do not get the same kudos and pats on the back if they want to more female things.  This is completely unfair and irrational.

I have a pretty feminine personality in many ways, which has made it hard for me to navigate life as a male.  I've never quite felt like I fit in, and never felt quite comfortable in my own skin.  I love fashion, and I love wearing all sorts of feminine clothing.  Skirts, dresses, high heels, you name it.  Just love how it looks and feels.  Fashion is perhaps the clearest, most salient example of unfair double standards for men.  Women have the benefit of being able to wear anything they want--skirts, dresses, high heels, or pants, shirts, and sneakers.  They can shop in any department with little or no judgement.  They can even buy from the actual men's departments and most people won't bat an eye.  But a man shopping for a dress and heels is still considered very taboo for most people.  Women have access to the entire spectrum of fashion--nothing is off limits.  Men have access to half of it.  As I've long said, there are two types of clothes: women's, and unisex.  This is difficult and unfair for men like me who feel like Rarity inside and very much want to wear all of the beautiful things that women get to wear.

Now, as I said, I don't want to trivialize the trials and tribulations (I almost said Trials and Tribble-ations ) of women.  I'd much rather get some sideways looks for wearing a dress than to be beaten or killed for not wearing my cloth bag.  No doubt.  At least I don't face any clothing laws.  It's not like it's illegal for me to wear anything from the women's department.  But that doesn't mean it's easy to face the accusing looks of one's countrymen.  Trying to embrace one's personality and accept oneself for who one is when one is an effeminate man is challenging to say the least, and fraught with plenty of double standards.

[Pentium100 2,056]

2 hours ago, ExplosionMare said:

The last thing you said sounds so stupid. Women can be just as guilty and there’s no need to arrest the man every time if he hasn’t done anything!

Yep, but for some reason it's the law. Maybe cops were ignoring the complaints before or something, but now they have to take the man in. Again, I do not know what would happen if a man called the cops and said that his wife was beating him.

1 hour ago, Justin_Case001 said:

I'd much rather get some sideways looks for wearing a dress than to be beaten or killed for not wearing my cloth bag.

I am pretty sure in the country where they would beat or kill a woman for not wearing a cloth bag would do the same to a man who wears a skirt (probably because such man would appear gay and in those countries being gay is a capital offense). While it is easy to see how non-standard women are oppressed in those cultures, non-standard men are also oppressed almost as much.