Jump to content
Banner by ~ SFyr

Concerning Redemption


 Share

Recommended Posts

Not sure - perhaps because that's not how it usually works in fiction? in most cartoons or novels, villains are defeated, vow revenge, and are then locked up to later escape and form the foundation for a later episode/book.

However as I occasionally note, the African philosophy of Ubuntuism is absolutely onside with Pony philosophy; Ponies would appear to be more forgiving - ubuntuism, while heavily orientated to redemption, also uses the heavy hand of social stigma to punish those who transgress, redemption is earned, not gifted, which would seem to match GlimGlam's early fears in S6, and many of the complaints about her character seem to stem from this feeling of an unearned reward.

Essentially, the Herd is not Ubuntuism, and Ubuntuism is not the Herd - but by looking at the Herd though the lens of Ubuntuism, you can see the parallels there.

  • Brohoof 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


I think it's because it's getting overused in the show. First it was Princess Luna, then Discord, Trixie, Starlight, Baconmane, Diamond Tiara, Gilda, Stygian, Tempest and so many more. That, or fans just miss how they used to be the "bad guy." Like Discord. To be honest, he was a pretty cool villain before he was "reformed."

Edited by Midnight Solace
  • Brohoof 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites


The common complaints involve how they are redeemed, or rather a lack of a progression of said redemption over a longer time. Some point to character arcs in The Last Airbender as a comparison of how a redemption should feel earned. 

Some complain that redemptions should not apply to specific characters due to their actions and motivations. While others apply a personal bias toward some characters as they feel like IRL people who have personally wronged them. 

The show has handled redemptions well in some cases and poorly in others. But I’m of the mind most characters can be redeemed in some way, though not in the way that they tend to do. I like some nuance. Trixie and Discord kept many of their original personality traits so they don’t feel like different characters. Starlight and Sunset are a characters that I feel had rushed redemptions with better post redemption arcs. 

I’d like to see a character go through a live and let live redemption arc. Not become an ally but back off. Better yet, it would be nice to see a villainous sacrificial moment. A character like Chrysalis is hard to redeem, but I can see her helping to save the day through a selfish sacrifice to stop an ally who betrayed her. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Gosh darn it! Are those mean, mean haters bashing the show again?! Hmm, I do not recall complaining about this particular thing for a while. I wonder who could have been that has done did it this time. They must become my ally!

 

1494144313317.png.ccc298ab0200d20a816ac661763d0ba4.png

Every other anime villain gets redeemed. It's how you get there that's important. Also, there are a lot of heroes in anime that have dark and tragic pasts but they still chose to do the right thing. It's the same IRL. That's why I cannot stand pony redemptions. You have to be a mentally challenged individual or some sort of a self-absorbed narcissists to become a villain when faced with a FIM brand of tragedy. Thus redemptions aren't really disliked due to redemption itself but cause it's then that the sheer stupidity of a villain's origin story is usually exposed.

 

P.S: Yes, Nanachi is here for a reason.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


I think it's usually a matter of poor execution, and sometimes it's because it's unrealistic of the villain to do so. You can have a villain who's the scum of the earth, and yet they quickly become good just because of a few words from the protagonist. It helps to have some buildup before you redeem a villain otherwise it would look forced.

39 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

Every other anime villain gets redeemed. It's how you get there that's important. Also, there are a lot of heroes in anime that have dark and tragic pasts but they still chose to do the right thing. It's the same IRL. That's why I cannot stand pony redemptions. You have to be a mentally challenged individual or some sort of a self-absorbed narcissists to become a villain when faced with a FIM brand of tragedy. Thus redemptions aren't really disliked due to redemption itself but cause it's then that the sheer stupidity of a villain's origin story is usually exposed.

P.S: Yes, Nanachi is here for a reason.

Not to stray too far off-topic but speaking of Nanachi, I definitely don't want to see a redeemed Bondrewd. That guy's well beyond that sort of thing. lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Badges

2 hours ago, Holly Jolly Ody said:

I think it's usually a matter of poor execution, and sometimes it's because it's unrealistic of the villain to do so. You can have a villain who's the scum of the earth, and yet they quickly become good just because of a few words from the protagonist. It helps to have some buildup before you redeem a villain otherwise it would look forced.

Not to stray too far off-topic but speaking of Nanachi, I definitely don't want to see a redeemed Bondrewd. That guy's well beyond that sort of thing. lol

The thing with Bondaddy is he doesn't see himself as a villain, and he loves Nanachi like a daughter. Granted, he's demented to the very core and obsessed with his research about the Abyss. He's doing it all for science. The thing is, after all he's done to Nanachi she did not become a villain. Her tragic past is on a whole different scale than anything we've seen in FIM, but no matter how one wishes to object to this comparison on the grounds of "muh kid show", when it comes to tragic pasts, it always comes down to what kind of a person you are. That's something that cannot be erased by age rating.

 

So when I see some spoiled pony go: "I want to destroy everything cause my friends moved away," I go: "Free elevator ride!"

  • Brohoof 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


If you redeem all the best villains, they can’t be “the bad guys” anymore, and therefore can’t be brought back to star as a villain again. Not to mention the fact that the redemption isn’t always done well and often comes on as a little rushed. :) 

Then again, redemption and forgiveness is a pretty big part of the show. “Friendship is Magic”, after all. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites


It's mostly an understandable worry about too many villains getting reformed and upsetting the balance between the protagonists and the antagonists. Rushed storytelling in a redemption twist is also frustrating, as it's something that will only happen to that villain once, something that we'll always have to look back on as what made that villain a good guy. Even if the villain does well as a good guy, their conversion will be forever remembered as weak and will hurt the character's image overall. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


6 hours ago, Midnight Solace said:

I think it's because it's getting overused in the show. First it was Princess Luna, then Discord, Trixie, Starlight, Baconmane, Diamond Tiara, Gilda, Stygian, Tempest and so many more. That, or fans just miss how they used to be the "bad guy." Like Discord. To be honest, he was a pretty cool villain before he was "reformed."

I still think Discord is still an awesome character, but he was better as villain (before Twilights Kingdom).

23 minutes ago, This Whomps said:

They’re both overdone and often very poorly executed 

The last one creates the problem. Mlp is all about reforming, but the motives to change side are just weak and lazy. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


It's because they all end up the same path. It becomes predictable and cliched. If you read Naruto, then you know what I mean.

And also it's more about how the villain is introduced and how it is treated. They feel like just cookie cuttings with different icing on top. Luna, Discord, Chrysalis was ok because they had a purpose in the show. The other villains (even later Chrysalis) just appear because there has to be some villain in the finale. Even if they banished the villain with no reconciliation, it would still feel cliched and the same. If the story and character is good, it doesn't matter if they are reformed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


When the writers dedicate time and effort into creating a solid villain that drives the plot, especially when they’re depicted with a degree of charisma, viewers like to see that character handled with care. This includes their redemption, if that’s where they’re ultimately destined to go. I don’t mind redeeming a character, but if it has to be done with every villain, it should be done with the same flair with which they were introduced as antagonists. All too often it seems they go through a really compelling story arc only to have a quick pat ending stapled on where they suddenly forfeit their personality, history and motivations as they break down in tears with the obligatory “I’m so sorry!” line, which is too much cliché for any character that was strongly written to begin with. Either spend more time easing them to a natural redemption or leave them as villains. In other words, do the job right or don’t do it at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


1) it's becomes predictable (people might know exactly what's going to happen, don't have any investment in the conflict or the cliche villain)

2) redemption could have been done better (many times they just rushed the story that made me go really that's what they are going to go with?)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Badges

  • 1 month later...
On 12/23/2018 at 7:33 AM, Midnight Solace said:

I think it's because it's getting overused in the show. First it was Princess Luna, then Discord, Trixie, Starlight, Baconmane, Diamond Tiara, Gilda, Stygian, Tempest and so many more. That, or fans just miss how they used to be the "bad guy." Like Discord. To be honest, he was a pretty cool villain before he was "reformed."

I like to point out that Stygian himself was never really a bad guy if you really look at it. Things just happened, and I'm glad he got saved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Badges

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Join the herd!

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...