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Do You Think Starlight Glimmer is a Good Pony?


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Obviously, there is no right or wrong answer here. Good and bad are a highly subjective, I’m just curious of people’s thought’s.

Probably the most interesting thing about Starlight to me, is that she is often portrayed as the bad person trying to be good. She wants to be a good person, she wants people to like and respect her, she wants friends who won’t leave her, but so often her base personality, her anxiety, her narcissism, her impulsiveness, all combine to create trouble for other people, in many ways that could be considered bad if not outright evil. But does that make her bad, or do you think that her desire to do and be good are more important?

And if you think she is bad, do you think that’s a bad thing, or does it only make her more interesting/relatable/ etc? Do you think she should change enough that she could be considered good?

Edited by The Wife of Hawks
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No. I don’t think she’s a good person but I agree to an extent with your assessment that she’s a bad person trying to do good things. My issue is that her flaws established in S5/6 aren’t being ironed out. In S8, we see her callously selling her best friend’s wagon(something that means a lot to Trixie) and her try to vaporise Discord just for pissing her off. 

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3 minutes ago, RulesofRarity said:

No. I don’t think she’s a good person but I agree to an extent with your assessment that she’s a bad person trying to do good things. My issue is that her flaws established in S5/6 aren’t being ironed out. In S8, we see her callously selling her best friend’s wagon(something that means a lot to Trixie) and her try to vaporise Discord just for pissing her off. 

Didn't she banish Discord for pissing her off on top of endangering the students?

I feel like if she actually tried to murder someone the episode would've made more of a deal about it.

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I disagree. First off, 'good' or 'bad' people are defined by their choices, and I find it hard to picture someone that did what she did as 'good'. So, to me, it's not at all a subjective matter.

But it doesn't mean that I think that she is a bad person, and will always be a bad person, or that she haven't changed yet. She just strikes me too much as self-centered, in contrast to Twilight's more selfless personality. I think the jury is still out on Starlight Glimmer, but I also think that it's unfair compare the two.

So, is she bad? Yes. Did she try to change? Eh... Yes? Is she irredeemable? Not at all.

The great thing is that she is absolutely fine the way she is. Forever a status quo of 'work in progress'. The cartoon has a plethora of different characters, with their different good and bad traits (for the most part), and their strengths and weaknesses (also, for the most part). It is the fact that writers in the show understand this that makes the cartoon entertaining.

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I think she still needs to work on herself a LOT. She isn’t Twilight’s student anymore, but I hope she’ll continue to learn from the Mane 6. 

I don’t know how many years passed between season 5-7, or how many years she was Twilight’s student. Now, first I tried to relate how long Twilight studied friendship under Celestia to how long Starlight did under Twilight. But now, I think that would be unfair. Starlight was a villian before she was taught about friendship, while Twilight obviously wasn’t.  I personally think Starlight should have stayed as Twilight’s student for much longer, but as I said above I don’t think this means she has nothing left to learn. 

Note: This is not to say that Starlight had to be a genius in the art of friendship to “graduate.” Even Twilight learns something once in a while. 

She has been reformed, but she has a long way to go before she is genuinely good. 

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She is still the same pony now from when she ruled the village. When she gets hurt or gets obsessed by something, she does something ridiculously extreme without thinking it through. She still does that. (brainwashes friends, turns her friend and herself into foals, shoots the biggest death laser beam on Discord, fills her bag with rage and infects Ponyville residents) She also lacks a sense of safety or responsibility. (this is demonstrated exactly throughout their reactions when Starlight and Sunset met for the first time and Starlight tells Sunset that she wants to go inside the mirror)

It's not like that what she did back then was evil and now what she is doing good so she is reformed. She has the same fundamental flaw. She moves on a same principle. Insecurities and impulses. And she doesn't fix it neither her friends try to. And because she is Flawed and Reformed, has a Dark Past, and a Reformed Villain, people love her. Guess what. Those are not necessarily a good thing.

Intentions doesn't matter. What she says doesn't matter. What matters is what she actually does. She didn't change.

So, I don't consider her good. She's a hell of a mess. Sweetie Belle is way younger than Starlight and yet, she's way more responsible and stable than Starlight.

This may harsh, but I once did like Starlight. To the writers, now she is more of a problem than an asset for the show. I hope she was better or became better.

Edited by Sepul-Coloratura
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I like Starlight,   if anything she seems to be the one pony to open and blunt when it comes to a problem.  Just getting to the point and not beating around the bush when it comes to things.  Sunset Shimmer is also the same way in her own style.   Yes she has some issues,  but also makes her more relatable as a charatcher  to see her work on these faults and interact with others in the show.  Is she a good being?  I would say yes,  but she is not perfect! 

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34 minutes ago, Sepul-Coloratura said:

She is still the same pony now from when she ruled the village. When she gets hurt or gets obsessed by something, she does something ridiculously extreme without thinking it through. She still does that. (brainwashes friends, turns her friend and herself into foals, shoots the biggest death laser beam on Discord, fills her bag with rage and infects Ponyville residents) She also lacks a sense of safety or responsibility. (this is demonstrated exactly throughout their reactions when Starlight and Sunset met for the first time and Starlight tells Sunset that she wants to go inside the mirror)

It's not like that what she did back then was evil and now what she is doing good so she is reformed. She has the same fundamental flaw. She moves on a same principle. Insecurities and impulses. And she doesn't fix it neither her friends try to. And because she is Flawed and Reformed, has a Dark Past, and a Reformed Villain, people love her. Guess what. Those are not necessarily a good thing.

Intentions doesn't matter. What she says doesn't matter. What matters is what she actually does. She didn't change.

So, I don't consider her good. She's a hell of a mess. Sweetie Belle is way younger than Starlight and yet, she's way more responsible and stable than Starlight.

This may harsh, but I once did like Starlight. To the writers, now she is more of a problem than an asset for the show. I hope she was better or became better.

I just want to point out, a few of your examples of Starlight's "Ridiculous extremes" aren't exactly entirely accurate or fair. The "Biggest death Laser beam" she used on Discord was a banishment spell, infecting the ponyville residents wasn't at all on purpose, and turning herself and her friend into foals, while over the top and maybe a little creepy wasn't even slightly harmful to anyone. Plus, in the first example Discord was acting way more out of line than Starlight was anyway, from her point of view he was not only insulting her, but also putting the students in danger.

 She still has the same flaw of often acting on insecurities and impulses, but she mostly only does that now when under severe stress, as opposed to her past self when it was pretty much her first option nearly all the time. Many of her more recent relapses aren't anywhere near the same severity as they were in prior seasons. So, I'd argue that she has changed, one doesn't have to eliminate a character flaw from themselves entirely to have changed. I think she's a good person because she's clearly trying to be and I think there's enough in the show to see she's made progress.

 

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19 hours ago, gingerninja666 said:

Didn't she banish Discord for pissing her off on top of endangering the students?

I feel like if she actually tried to murder someone the episode would've made more of a deal about it.

She blasted him because he pissed her off by calling her power hungry and incompetent.

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1 hour ago, RulesofRarity said:

She blasted him because he pissed her off by calling her power hungry and incompetent.

She was ready to banish him (her horn was charging) when he implied he wasn't going to stop endangering the students. Spike tried to calm the situation down, but Discord went on to insult her. She was already pissed off at him. The insult just sent her over the edge.

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5 hours ago, RulesofRarity said:

She blasted him because he pissed her off by calling her power hungry and incompetent.

 

3 hours ago, gingerninja666 said:

She was ready to banish him (her horn was charging) when he implied he wasn't going to stop endangering the students. Spike tried to calm the situation down, but Discord went on to insult her. She was already pissed off at him. The insult just sent her over the edge.

I get where the dissonance is coming from with both of these viewpoints but I feel context is important here. Not just external context like the endangering of students but the internal one both Discord and Starlight have.

What I mean by Discord's internal context is when he says "Incompetent and Power-hungry" he's referring to the events in the episode. She couldn't control the students when he "helped" and didn't have much of a plan relying completely on Twilight's notes not her own thoughts and feelings proved to him she's incompetent. Likewise because she refused his help at every turn, shut down his every suggestion tells him she's power-hungry in the principal position. So in context he is not wrong.

As for Starlight, she's determined to follow Twilight's guidepoints entirely and only strays from that directive once at the banishing moment. Why? What was asked of Discord by her? She wanted him to stop ruining the school because he showed previously he was not content with the school. He is by what seems testing her limit as a principal to try and clean up his mess. Spike says this is what he does to his friends. So now she sees this as some kind of test to pass for his amusement. Fine amusement it be, but endangerment is too far for this test, not friendly in the slightest, so she confronts him. Now Spike asks the ultimate question:

Quote
Spike: She's right, Discord. What's your problem?
Discord: My problem? How is the fact that Twilight decided to put an incompetent, power-hungry unicorn in charge of her school my problem?!

Emotions are now ultimately conflicted for her. All this time time Discord seemed to be testing her ability to be in charge, but now he's saying that HER in charge is the problem and this is not some friendship test and that he's trying to actually save the school from her. She has no idea what he wants and with that deflection of the question she has had enough. This wasn't just some insult it was a complete mindscrew and she wasn't having it.

And yet that banishing action is exactly what Discord wanted, to break her, to show her bad side to students. And ultimately that action is what helps her determine the problem with herself. Discord shows her no matter what actions she takes he's going to keep coming, so by taking the strongest action she learns magic will not solve this issue. There is something that is his problem but he's not saying, so she has to step back and reevaluate which she does.

Was she a good person during that entire time, no, but is she supposed to be? I mean she is the one whom apologizes, whom admits to being wrong. Humility is a good trait to have and I think Starlight in these Season 8 episodes shows a fine example of becoming self aware of your weaknesses by presenting them out in the open for the audience to judge.

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Is Starlight a good pony? Yes. 

I can see why people say that she is a bad pony trying to be good... which is a fair assessment. The thing is though... she is never really doing it for evil or bad things. She was a villain for quite a while. It's going to take a while to get all the kinks out. I actually think her personality makes sense for a former villain. She is still kinda ...umm... sociopathic. She knows her weaknesses which is anger and impulse control. Everytime Trixie pissed her off she was trying to get rid of the anger so she doesn't kill her or whatever. She's been driving herself crazy over her naughty phase since she turned good. She didn't even think she could be redeemed until the end of season 6.

She's just a flawed pony. Sometimes I wish Twilight would blast Discord but she has much better impulse control. Discord needs a taste of lesson zero Twilight. 

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1 hour ago, TwilySparky said:

Well, she is a pony not a person. But yes, I like Starlight and think she is a cute pone!

Being a cute pone doesn't make her any less of a person. It's what is inside that counts.

She has been working hard to reinvent herself since she became Twi's pupil, but still has issues with empathy (probably why Twi made her school councellor) and with her tendency to resort to magic when it is often the least effective answer....

She IS cute though :)

Edited by CypherHoof
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6 hours ago, TwilySparky said:

Well, she is a pony not a person. But yes, I like Starlight and think she is a cute pone!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is nothing in the definition of person that says it must be a human. The definition of person relates to being rational, moral, self-conscious. So, it's not wrong to define a pony from the show as a person.

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29 minutes ago, Metemponychosis said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is nothing in the definition of person that says it must be a human. The definition of person relates to being rational, moral, self-conscious. So, it's not wrong to define a pony from the show as a person.

I define a person as a human and a pony as a pony.

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On 1/10/2019 at 1:20 AM, BasementSparkle said:

I just want to point out, a few of your examples of Starlight's "Ridiculous extremes" aren't exactly entirely accurate or fair. The "Biggest death Laser beam" she used on Discord was a banishment spell, infecting the ponyville residents wasn't at all on purpose, and turning herself and her friend into foals, while over the top and maybe a little creepy wasn't even slightly harmful to anyone. Plus, in the first example Discord was acting way more out of line than Starlight was anyway, from her point of view he was not only insulting her, but also putting the students in danger.

 She still has the same flaw of often acting on insecurities and impulses, but she mostly only does that now when under severe stress, as opposed to her past self when it was pretty much her first option nearly all the time. Many of her more recent relapses aren't anywhere near the same severity as they were in prior seasons. So, I'd argue that she has changed, one doesn't have to eliminate a character flaw from themselves entirely to have changed. I think she's a good person because she's clearly trying to be and I think there's enough in the show to see she's made progress.

 

We don't know exactly what kind of a spell she cast. But judging by how it's depicted and how she emotionally reacted, it was more of a brutal violence. (terrain being destroyd, Dragonball-style death scene) But more importantly, it actually doesn't matter if it was a banishing spell or a death beam.  Because those two things are caused by the same intention and resulted the same. (killing or banisging - what's the difference? She clearly seemed to not care if she actually kills him at that moment) Her reaction was rage.  And her action was by force. (and of course Discord was being bad but that's not the point when it comes to finding out if Starlight is being bad) (plus, there are actually those kind of kids like discord in real life and it's not a proper reaction to teach kids how to behave) (but I still think Discord should have pologized. not a good episode imo)

Infecting Ponyville residents: like I said, what they actually do is more important than intentions and what they say. Twilight kinda did this in Lesson Zeo, and instantly scolded by Celestia. And when it comes to intentions, both didn't have a moral intentions either. 

Turning herself and Sunburst into foals shows exactly how she is messed up inside and where she comes from, it is selfishness rather than having considerations for her friend. (All Bottled Up was selfish too. Being afraid to feel angry isn't being kind.)

People or characters reveal their true nature under stress and at crisis under desperate situations.

I have no clue whatsoever if she is a different pony now. No results yet.

(but I don't hate her, just hope she becomes a better person)

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  • The title was changed to Do You Think Starlight Glimmer is a Good Pony?

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