Nightmare Muffin

What if the g5 everyone expects isn't?

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While everyone seems to expect a g5, what if that's not what we get? What if, like My Little Pony Tales (which is g1), the series is rebooted and remains in the same generation, and the toyline continues the same g4.5 mold? Would fans of this gen still call the new animation g5? 

Edited by Nightmare Muffin
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How can your reboot and have G4.5 at the same time? Is this one of those "I want to proclaim MLP is all about dozens upon dozens of recolors but now I know better than to tell it out loud" threads?

 

I mean, given the looming CartoonGate and AnimeGate, I'm prepared for just about anything left and stupid. If they want to trash G4 which no longer seems to be financially viable as far as toys are concerned only to then continue with the same failing concept, then by all means follow the lemmings. It'll be like regressive comic books that reboot every other issue only to retain the same unsellable characters and premise.

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While G5 is airing, would be nice there being a G4.5 about the children of the Mane 6, particularly Kilala's next gen characters.

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What exactly is everyone expecting for g5? All I heard is a lot of rumors and until they release the official promotional 3d movie those rumors would be still rumors

EQG is reboot MLP tales in a new format, so it's not that shocking to me

If they bring back G3, I would say bring it on.

Edited by R.D.Dash

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MLP the Movie was G4.5 (also I’m one of the few that considers Tales to be G2), so the chances of that are unlikely.

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On 2/21/2019 at 10:51 PM, AveryGamerDude said:

That would be amazing. :D

How do you figure?

On 2/22/2019 at 9:22 AM, vgmaster9 said:

While G5 is airing, would be nice there being a G4.5 about the children of the Mane 6, particularly Kilala's next gen characters.

Yeah, I can guarantee that that will absolutely never happen. 

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I'll go into generation five with little to no expectations. That way, I won't be disappointed and can easily accept to whatever they decide to throw at me.

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On 2/22/2019 at 11:52 AM, Goat-kun said:

 

I mean, given the looming CartoonGate and AnimeGate, I'm prepared for just about anything left and stupid. 

G4 was pretty leftist without going crazy preachy about it. The only big exception to that came in the form of Chancellor Neighsay, but tbh I found him a pretty interesting character. Both my parents were teachers so I heard all about the insane political nonsense that goes on in the education system, and frankly, what was going on with Twi's school was pretty darned realistic.

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16 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

G4 was pretty leftist without going crazy preachy about it. The only big exception to that came in the form of Chancellor Neighsay, but tbh I found him a pretty interesting character. Both my parents were teachers so I heard all about the insane political nonsense that goes on in the education system, and frankly, what was going on with Twi's school was pretty darned realistic.

Did you just try to steal all the girly stuff for the left side? Did you just imply that racial prejudice is specific to the right? These are some fighting words.

 

Twilight School is realistic? Well, the education system has become a daycare, so I'd wager there are many similarities. However, I was not talking about FIM but G5. I do not trust our glorious writers since they have a compulsive need to peddle fake morals at the cost of story and worldbuilding. They could be concocting all kinds of intersectional bullshit for the new generation on top of all this impossible friendship crap.

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1 hour ago, Goat-kun said:

Did you just try to steal all the girly stuff for the left side? Did you just imply that racial prejudice is specific to the right? These are some fighting words.

Twilight School is realistic? Well, the education system has become a daycare, so I'd wager there are many similarities. However, I was not talking about FIM but G5. I do not trust our glorious writers since they have a compulsive need to peddle fake morals at the cost of story and worldbuilding. They could be concocting all kinds of intersectional bullshit for the new generation on top of all this impossible friendship crap.

What the buck does 'girly' stuff have to do with left/right politics? And given your opinion on the lessons of the show, and fearing G5 going even further left..  you pretty much handed it all over to the left on your own; I didn't do anything. And what in the world is a fake moral? How can a moral be fake? Morals are rules and suggestions put forth by society, and the kinds of morals that societies can have are as limitless as the imagination.

And now I'm morbidly curious, what are you even getting out of watching MLP? You're practically saying "I like Star Trek, but why can't it just be on Earth?"

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I’m not expecting anything from G5, I’m just going to watch it and that’s it

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2 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

What the buck does 'girly' stuff have to do with left/right politics? And given your opinion on the lessons of the show, and fearing G5 going even further left..  you pretty much handed it all over to the left on your own; I didn't do anything. And what in the world is a fake moral? How can a moral be fake? Morals are rules and suggestions put forth by society, and the kinds of morals that societies can have are as limitless as the imagination.

And now I'm morbidly curious, what are you even getting out of watching MLP? You're practically saying "I like Star Trek, but why can't it just be on Earth?"

The ideology of the left is to put a group before the individual while the right does the opposite. Since you said that Neighsay is not a part of such ideology I naturally assumed you abide by the normie definition that still likes to portray extreme identitarian leftists as noble liberals. A particular brand of Western left is not only the old womb of Nazis; it is also the most racist and divisive political movement of our time.

 

What within FIM can then be perceived as a left-leaning? Is its forgotten emphasis on female-centric entertainment? It cannot be as there are lots of better female characters out there made in the spirit of right wing philosophy. It has to do with Friendship and Harmony. These two comprise the new and improved pony belief system that is slowly but surely taking over hearts and minds of every creature at the expense of common sense. It is not that friendship doesn't work. We humans are social creatures after all. However, FIM has stepped beyond friendship as a positive social interaction into the realm of religious dogma. Inside this world there is little friendship to be seen on the screen, but Friendship is ever so prevalent. It is the bundle of commandments, lessons that must be obeyed in order to ascend and receive actual magical benefits. The emotions and opinions of an individual can do nothing against Harmony that has substituted the apparatus of the state itself. But you are free to choose, yes? You have a choice to live as a helpless creature plagued by poverty, famine, and an endless stream of villains who can only be beaten by the power of Friendship and Harmony, or you can just take a knee and convert. FIM is not longer a world, well, it probably never was. Perhaps it just shed its skin and revealed itself as a dispenser of crude moralizing material that is not suited for human beings. Friendship must work at all costs. Our glorious writers, god stewards of MLP, demand it.

 

You see, when you are writing about positive messages you make sure you include those. FIM ain't doing that. FIM wants to be edgy. FIM has shithole states. FIM has terrible, terrible villains. Goblin Slayer has more meaningful character moments and development than FIM, and those characters don't even have proper names. Most Mane 6 members act like neighbors who live on the far sides of their street. This schism between practice and Friendship commandments is making FIM reek of undeserved authority on a subjects it knows nothing about. Conspiracy? Probably not. There are some deadly sins to be considered first. Still, they are pushing this Friendship narrative quite hard even in the interviews. Unneeded, unless it's personal. That is a concern.

 

I have stated it many times: cute talking animals and magic are my things, especially in such a style. One could say I'd love to empty this thing and salvage its shell ;)

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19 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

The ideology of the left is to put a group before the individual while the right does the opposite. Since you said that Neighsay is not a part of such ideology I naturally assumed you abide by the normie definition that still likes to portray extreme identitarian leftists as noble liberals. A particular brand of Western left is not only the old womb of Nazis; it is also the most racist and divisive political movement of our time.

Eh, Socialism/Communism/whatever-similar-ism is not inherently evil anymore than any other form of government. We simply have worse examples of them to use as standards. Give the U.S.A. time and we'll probably prove that a Democratic Republic with a side-order of Capitalism is equally self-destructive. Ultimately it boils down to selfish humans being the problem, not the ideologies. Communism or Socialism is pretty much flawless... in theory. In practice on the other hand... *boom*

As far as the School of Friendship is concerned though I wasn't referring to the school itself, but its relationship with the EEA (a pretty direct parallel to the U.S. NEA). The EEA's meddling into every little thing, the insanely huge book of rules, looking for any stupid reason to shut the school down, is pretty much spot-on. Somebody did their homework before writing those episodes.

19 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

It has to do with Friendship and Harmony. These two comprise the new and improved pony belief system that is slowly but surely taking over hearts and minds of every creature at the expense of common sense. It is not that friendship doesn't work. We humans are social creatures after all. However, FIM has stepped beyond friendship as a positive social interaction into the realm of religious dogma. Inside this world there is little friendship to be seen on the screen, but Friendship is ever so prevalent. It is the bundle of commandments, lessons that must be obeyed in order to ascend and receive actual magical benefits. The emotions and opinions of an individual can do nothing against Harmony that has substituted the apparatus of the state itself. But you are free to choose, yes? You have a choice to live as a helpless creature plagued by poverty, famine, and an endless stream of villains who can only be beaten by the power of Friendship and Harmony, or you can just take a knee and convert. FIM is not longer a world, well, it probably never was. Perhaps it just shed its skin and revealed itself as a dispenser of crude moralizing material that is not suited for human beings. Friendship must work at all costs. Our glorious writers, god stewards of MLP, demand it.

You see, when you are writing about positive messages you make sure you include those. FIM ain't doing that. FIM wants to be edgy. FIM has shithole states. FIM has terrible, terrible villains. Goblin Slayer has more meaningful character moments and development than FIM, and those characters don't even have proper names. Most Mane 6 members act like neighbors who live on the far sides of their street. This schism between practice and Friendship commandments is making FIM reek of undeserved authority on a subjects it knows nothing about. Conspiracy? Probably not. There are some deadly sins to be considered first. Still, they are pushing this Friendship narrative quite hard even in the interviews. Unneeded, unless it's personal. That is a concern.

Wow. As much as I want to say otherwise, I can't completely disagree. "Divine intervention" is a question I've asked about the show long before the Tree of Harmony began showing obvious signs of sentience though. For example, Manifest Destiny was implied from the very beginning, predating even the tree, at least in the form of character names and matching cutie marks. And since the Elements predate the existence of the tree, it's still in question where that power actually came from.
Really, friendship devolving into a religion is a fascinating concept that would be fun to explore, but best reserved for hard sci-fi. Is Equestria becoming a dystopia right under the noses of its inhabitants? Curious. The religious paradox? Be kind not because you want to be, but because you fear eternal Damnation? Perhaps. Though I don't think it's there yet. Such a dogma is far too new in their culture to reach that point.

I disagree with your take on the villains though, at least some of them. A couple of the lesser ones; Starlight and foal name I can't remember offhand now in the CMC camp story, raised questions about thenature of free will in a cutie mark universe. Nightmare Moon and Stygian, are pretty much my backstory spot-on before all of this, so I definitely can't suggest they're not believable. Discord is a spiritual deamon of sorts with an alien nature so he doesn't count. Pony of Shadows may or may not even be inherently evil (and how much of his personality is actually Stygian?), simply a symbiotic or parasitic creature that is a solution looking for a problem; I've suspected for a long time that he's heavily inspired by Venom of 'Spiderman' stories. Sombra we don't really know anything about. All that leaves is Chrysalis, Tirek, and... Trixie? Tirek is the most classic of mustache-twirling comic book villains, and aptly used for the most epic of 1 vs 1 showdowns that we've seen in the show. Trixie was never evil, merely corrupted by dark magic. Chrysalis is the remaining oddball, but also, her (implied) influence on Changeling culture is a thought-provoking one. That the Changelings were able to adapt to an entirely different way of life suggests that Changelings as we knew them was entirely a social construct, not an instinctive one (I see a parallel in Monsters Inc, with the transition from fear to laughter as a power source). Their transformation into a race of bug-moose is purely metaphorical. In our world, we have many questions about this sort of thing. Are we naturally this way, or are we the product of what we've been taught? So tbh, I don't see the problem. MLP villains, by the standards of kiddie shows, are pretty darned interesting and complex for the most part.

However, your fears about G4 at least may be misplaced, for one simple reason. Cozy Glow. (Who by the way, scares me more than all the others). A religious terrorist spawned from the Harmony scriptures which were created with the best of intentions; a manifestation of dogma gone horridly wrong. Hopefully this gets explored further and not just pushed under the rug. Clearly someone, while developing her character, saw the same kind of thing that you do. Even if some of that is Tirek's manipulation, he got this alternate way of thinking to make logical sense, which is at the core of why dogmas are dangerous.

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8 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

Eh, Socialism/Communism/whatever-similar-ism is not inherently evil anymore than any other form of government. We simply have worse examples of them to use as standards. Give the U.S.A. time and we'll probably prove that a Democratic Republic with a side-order of Capitalism is equally self-destructive. Ultimately it boils down to selfish humans being the problem, not the ideologies. Communism or Socialism is pretty much flawless... in theory. In practice on the other hand... *boom*

As far as the School of Friendship is concerned though I wasn't referring to the school itself, but its relationship with the EEA (a pretty direct parallel to the U.S. NEA). The EEA's meddling into every little thing, the insanely huge book of rules, looking for any stupid reason to shut the school down, is pretty much spot-on. Somebody did their homework before writing those episodes.

Wow. As much as I want to say otherwise, I can't completely disagree. "Divine intervention" is a question I've asked about the show long before the Tree of Harmony began showing obvious signs of sentience though. For example, Manifest Destiny was implied from the very beginning, predating even the tree, at least in the form of character names and matching cutie marks. And since the Elements predate the existence of the tree, it's still in question where that power actually came from.
Really, friendship devolving into a religion is a fascinating concept that would be fun to explore, but best reserved for hard sci-fi. Is Equestria becoming a dystopia right under the noses of its inhabitants? Curious. The religious paradox? Be kind not because you want to be, but because you fear eternal Damnation? Perhaps. Though I don't think it's there yet. Such a dogma is far too new in their culture to reach that point.

I disagree with your take on the villains though, at least some of them. A couple of the lesser ones; Starlight and foal name I can't remember offhand now in the CMC camp story, raised questions about thenature of free will in a cutie mark universe. Nightmare Moon and Stygian, are pretty much my backstory spot-on before all of this, so I definitely can't suggest they're not believable. Discord is a spiritual deamon of sorts with an alien nature so he doesn't count. Pony of Shadows may or may not even be inherently evil (and how much of his personality is actually Stygian?), simply a symbiotic or parasitic creature that is a solution looking for a problem; I've suspected for a long time that he's heavily inspired by Venom of 'Spiderman' stories. Sombra we don't really know anything about. All that leaves is Chrysalis, Tirek, and... Trixie? Tirek is the most classic of mustache-twirling comic book villains, and aptly used for the most epic of 1 vs 1 showdowns that we've seen in the show. Trixie was never evil, merely corrupted by dark magic. Chrysalis is the remaining oddball, but also, her (implied) influence on Changeling culture is a thought-provoking one. That the Changelings were able to adapt to an entirely different way of life suggests that Changelings as we knew them was entirely a social construct, not an instinctive one (I see a parallel in Monsters Inc, with the transition from fear to laughter as a power source). Their transformation into a race of bug-moose is purely metaphorical. In our world, we have many questions about this sort of thing. Are we naturally this way, or are we the product of what we've been taught? So tbh, I don't see the problem. MLP villains, by the standards of kiddie shows, are pretty darned interesting and complex for the most part.

However, your fears about G4 at least may be misplaced, for one simple reason. Cozy Glow. (Who by the way, scares me more than all the others). A religious terrorist spawned from the Harmony scriptures which were created with the best of intentions; a manifestation of dogma gone horridly wrong. Hopefully this gets explored further and not just pushed under the rug. Clearly someone, while developing her character, saw the same kind of thing that you do. Even if some of that is Tirek's manipulation, he got this alternate way of thinking to make logical sense, which is at the core of why dogmas are dangerous.

There is no good or evil. Communism just doesn't work. It's like a mutation that is not compatible with life. Our lefties are on the same level as those who believe that radiation can turn one into a Hulk.

 

It's not so much a dystopia from a character's perspective but from that of a viewer. It could just as well be a Dead Space prequel for little girls :P

 

Villains in FIM belong into two groups: those who want to Friendship but don't know how and those who are so "evil" that they cannot understand Friendship at all. There is no villain who understands Friendship and still fights against it. Cozy Glow, as much as I like her, still belongs in the latter category. She wanted to use Friendship to gain power, but she never understood what Friendship meant. She's no different than Tirek or Chrysalis in that regard. Now, if Cozy understood Friendship and chose to fight against Harmony the same way Tanya Degurechaff chose to stubbornly struggle against the divine will of Being X, then that would indeed be a new approach. We can never have that since it could elevate her into an unofficial main character in the eyes of the audience, and it would be an indirect admission that Friendship is flawed with a possibility of evil. Our glorious writers have unfortunately decided that Friendship is God and they're damn pleased with this decision. No redpilled lolis allowed! And so I have braced myself for redemptions. Buck everything.

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On 3/13/2019 at 1:27 PM, Goat-kun said:

There is no good or evil. Communism just doesn't work. It's like a mutation that is not compatible with life. Our lefties are on the same level as those who believe that radiation can turn one into a Hulk.

There is no villain who understands Friendship and still fights against it. Cozy Glow, as much as I like her, still belongs in the latter category. She wanted to use Friendship to gain power, but she never understood what Friendship meant. She's no different than Tirek or Chrysalis in that regard. Now, if Cozy understood Friendship and chose to fight against Harmony the same way Tanya Degurechaff chose to stubbornly struggle against the divine will of Being X, then that would indeed be a new approach. We can never have that since it could elevate her into an unofficial main character in the eyes of the audience, and it would be an indirect admission that Friendship is flawed with a possibility of evil. Our glorious writers have unfortunately decided that Friendship is God and they're damn pleased with this decision.

Ehh... how many empires have kept from imploding before a couple hundred years without repeated massive changes in ideology? You can find cultures throughout history that were far more communistic than any modern society... they fell, usually be being conquered. Probably the only thing that has prevented the current 'free world' from going the way of rome is the credit system... a bandaid on a shotgun wound at best. But the warning signs of a collapse are everywhere now.

How would you present a character who understands friendship but opposes it anyway without a bunch of inner monologuing or the campiest zinger contest between a Jedi and a Sith ever? Maybe that story just works better with schoolyard bullies instead of supervillains? Btw, I think we forgot one. Pity he was even goofier than Discord and didn't last.  Storm King. Probably. He is likely a 3rd type, both in how he reacts to the 'mushy'ponies, and also his defeat.  He's actually possibly more evil than any of the others (maybe not slavemaster Sombra, but we'll probably never find out just how screwed up the empire was, or how it got that way) . Tirek at least honored Twilight's terms for an exchange, while Storm King betrayed Tempest immediately. Also, the only character to visibly die suggests (from an FiM storytelling perspective anyway) that he was irredeemable. Even Tartarus AFAIK has never officially been said in the show to be an eternal punishment (we can only assume that from mythology, which FiM deviates from in numerous ways - Cerberus's job in the show is much more polarized than in mythology, where he is a guardian of an afterlife realm that is indifferent to whether a soul is good or evil) If you want to say Tempest's sacrifice counts for "defeat by friendship," alright, but by that definition, all wars have then been won by friendship, which is simply us looking out for each other. 

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5 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

Ehh... how many empires have kept from imploding before a couple hundred years without repeated massive changes in ideology? You can find cultures throughout history that were far more communistic than any modern society... they fell, usually be being conquered. Probably the only thing that has prevented the current 'free world' from going the way of rome is the credit system... a bandaid on a shotgun wound at best. But the warning signs of a collapse are everywhere now.

How would you present a character who understands friendship but opposes it anyway without a bunch of inner monologuing or the campiest zinger contest between a Jedi and a Sith ever? Maybe that story just works better with schoolyard bullies instead of supervillains? Btw, I think we forgot one. Pity he was even goofier than Discord and didn't last.  Storm King. Probably. He is likely a 3rd type, both in how he reacts to the 'mushy'ponies, and also his defeat.  He's actually possibly more evil than any of the others (maybe not slavemaster Sombra, but we'll probably never find out just how screwed up the empire was, or how it got that way) . Tirek at least honored Twilight's terms for an exchange, while Storm King betrayed Tempest immediately. Also, the only character to visibly die suggests (from an FiM storytelling perspective anyway) that he was irredeemable. Even Tartarus AFAIK has never officially been said in the show to be an eternal punishment (we can only assume that from mythology, which FiM deviates from in numerous ways - Cerberus's job in the show is much more polarized than in mythology, where he is a guardian of an afterlife realm that is indifferent to whether a soul is good or evil) If you want to say Tempest's sacrifice counts for "defeat by friendship," alright, but by that definition, all wars have then been won by friendship, which is simply us looking out for each other. 

Name them and their wicked ways. You can also explain how one can be more communistic. You either have communism or you don't. It's not the same as having social programs.

 

Anyhow, the way how our glorious writers and H-Bro have set things up, it would be incredibly easy to have the "big bad" and his friends oppose Friendship and Harmony. After all, Friendship is not true friendship and there are lots of things to hate about ponies and Harmony. In this regard, a hero that could befriend creatures while remaining true to themselves would be a greater threat to Equestria and the convictions of our glorious writers than all the villains combined.

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