Do you have a religion?

[Cash In 21,509]

I was born catholic but I wouldn't consider myself completely religous as I have views which deviate from it.

[Dreambiscuit 8,024]

I’m 100% Catholic and I love it. Life without religion to me would be empty and meaningless. I love God and being encouraged to better myself, even when it’s difficult, because God is infinitely patient.

I’m seeing a lot of comment here suggesting that religion is homophobic. That’s short-sighted and absurd. When religious teaching tries to encourage people to resist temptations it doesn’t mean it has a phobia against those temptations. Sometimes someone has to say ‘no’ and it isn’t ‘hate’ against those who struggle with it. When a parent tells his/her child not to do something it doesn’t mean the parent is ‘phobic,’ it just means they care enough to offer guidance, which many would call love. They’re simply teaching their child how to be strong when temptations come along. Villainizing religion because it tries to teach something beyond ‘do whatever you want’ is unfair, and no better than what some may mistakenly label ‘homophobic.’

[Envy 5,998]

9 hours ago, Dreambiscuit said:

I’m seeing a lot of comment here suggesting that religion is homophobic. That’s short-sighted and absurd. When religious teaching tries to encourage people to resist temptations it doesn’t mean it has a phobia against those temptations. Sometimes someone has to say ‘no’ and it isn’t ‘hate’ against those who struggle with it. When a parent tells his/her child not to do something it doesn’t mean the parent is ‘phobic,’ it just means they care enough to offer guidance, which many would call love. They’re simply teaching their child how to be strong when temptations come along. Villainizing religion because it tries to teach something beyond ‘do whatever you want’ is unfair, and no better than what some may mistakenly label ‘homophobic.’

Homophobia manifests itself in many different ways. Not all homophobia comes from mean-spirited hateful intentions, but in the end, it is all harmful. Framing homosexuality as "temptations" that need to be "resist[ed]" is a form of homophobia. Despite maybe not coming from the worst of intentions, it is a particularly toxic one. Homosexuality is not a matter of "doing whatever we want". It is an intrinsic quality, and both the non-acceptance from parents/their community (church) and the feelings of shame will do a number on a child that is feeling something that is both out of their own control and is not actually harmful to anyone. Homosexuality is love, just like what you have with your husband.

On the other hand, any kind of "love" which makes a child feel like a homophobic community/church and family does (it does not lead to a healthy, happy, straight person, it leads to self-hatred and potentially suicide) needs to be reexamined thoroughly, no matter what the original intentions are or where they come from.

Many people are concerned about the homophobia that comes from many (yes, I said not all) churches, Christians, etc., because it is very real. And again, it doesn't matter what the original intentions are. It is homophobia. It is harmful. I will call it what it is, and I will criticize where it comes from.

[Narcissus 352]

11 hours ago, Envy said:

Homophobia manifests itself in many different ways. Not all homophobia comes from mean-spirited hateful intentions, but in the end, it is all harmful. Framing homosexuality as "temptations" that need to be "resist[ed]" is a form of homophobia. Despite maybe not coming from the worst of intentions, it is a particularly toxic one. 

I'm a raging bisexual, but let's be completely honest with ourselves here. Homosexuality is a form of temptation, and framing it as something else is self-delusion. People in any walk of life, no matter what they're into, rationalize their behavior by calling it a 'condition,' 'weakness,' 'disease' or other 'intrinsic quality.' It may be in our nature to feel a certain way, but nature is often something to be overcome. I often struggle tremendously with my sexual orientation, but I don't consider myself a victim. I look at it as a challenge to be faced and won't be frightened away from it because it's difficult. 

I'm sure anyone told they can't do something will view it as 'harmful'. It isn't hate though. We're usually told by someone who loves us dearly. There are countless sexual proclivities that people have, many of which are extremely destructive to themselves and others, and I'm sure they'd consider it harmful when told it's wrong. I used to make every excuse in the book when I wanted to justify my lifestyle, but I ultimately got honest with myself and realized I can't always have everything my own way and that there's another side of the argument. I'm still bisexual but it doesn't mean I have to act on it.

Many homosexuals and bisexuals feel the way they do by nature, others because of some perverse sense of following current trends at the risk of their own identity. Be who you are but don't just feed the need because you refuse to understand and accept both sides of the matter.

11 hours ago, Envy said:

On the other hand, any kind of "love" which makes a child feel like a homophobic community/church and family does (it does not lead to a healthy, happy, straight person, it leads to self-hatred and potentially suicide) needs to be reexamined thoroughly, no matter what the original intentions are or where they come from.

Demanding acceptance from someone when not willing to give it ourselves is also an imbalance. If we've sunk so low as to become self-hating or suicidal because we can't be told right from wrong, and renounce God and religion in favor of self, then we prove only that we can't learn anything beyond our own desires. Don't get me wrong, I struggle every day with this stuff because I have very strong drives where this is concerned, but acting on every impulse is not going to make us stronger as people. No one said this was easy, but it is worth the effort.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Narcissus

[TBD 17,228]

My religion is a religion with a really bad rep since the beginning of A.D. Roman Catholic. 

 

Edited March 9, 2019 by TBD

[PoisonClaw 8,153]

No, I'm agnostic. I believe my parents were raised Catholic, but we never really did anything associated with the religion like going to church and all that. 

Edited March 9, 2019 by PoisonClaw

[Envy 5,998]

9 minutes ago, Narcissus said:

Homosexuality is a form of temptation, and framing it as something else is self-delusion.

I looked up the definition of the word 'temptation', and no wonder I thought using it here had homophobic connotations... Here we are, definition #1.

"the desire to do something, especially something wrong or unwise."

I fail to see how homosexuality actually fits into either of these categories. If there's any fit for "unwise" I can find, it's because people who are against it can be violent, but that's on them, not the homosexual individual. They are the ones in the "wrong".

13 minutes ago, Narcissus said:

It may be in our nature to feel a certain way, but nature is often something to be overcome.

 

16 minutes ago, Narcissus said:

There are countless sexual proclivities that people have, many of which are extremely destructive to themselves and others, and I'm sure they'd consider it harmful when told it's wrong.

Why is homosexuality something that needs to be 'overcome'?

18 minutes ago, Narcissus said:

Many homosexuals and bisexuals feel the way they do by nature, others because of some perverse sense of following current trends at the risk of their own identity

Perverse? I fail to see how it is perverse. Homosexuality is not inherently harmful. Look, I don't really care if some people end up believing they're a sexuality they're not for an amount of time and later find out that's not the case. What is the harm? I see no harm in it as long as they aren't living in a culture which is forcing them to be something they are not, which in this culture, the only sexual orientation that is trying to be forced on people through extreme means (conversion therapy) is heterosexuality.

28 minutes ago, Narcissus said:

Demanding acceptance from someone when not willing to give it ourselves is also an imbalance. If we've sunk so low as to become self-hating or suicidal because we can't be told right from wrong, and renounce God and religion in favor of self, then we prove only that we can't learn anything beyond our own desires.

What kind of "acceptance" are you even wanting us to give? I do not and will not accept homophobia, transphobia, sexism, racism, etc. No, not even to the extent myself may have these (like, right now I'm struggling with the concept of dating trans women. This is a flaw of mine. I hope to become a better person about it.) If a trans woman saw this post and felt like that belief was rejecting her, I wouldn't even argue with her. I am the one in the wrong. There is nothing that she should have to accept about my prejudice. That is not how things work.

Your next sentence, I'm not sure I'm interpreting properly. My first interpretation is you're saying that they aren't strong enough in their conviction that they are right and that leads to self-hate and suicide. Well, let me tell you, someone who is raised in a strictly homophobic Christian environment where they've been taught it is a sin and that they'll go to Hell for it (in more extreme beliefs) is darn well going to hate themselves, because they believe themselves to be a Christian and they're being rejected by the belief system they've held so dearly (or moreover has been heavily indoctrinated into them) their entire lives. Everything they've ever known is against who they are.

Less strictly homophobic environments, can still be harmful with the 'othering' of homosexuality. In this environment there may not be explicit hate toward homosexuality, but the lack of mentioning or acceptance of homosexuality draws a clear line of homosexuality being a quality of "the other". It strongly implies that homosexuality is perverted, wrong, and overtly sexual by nature. This is a kind of homophobia that permeates children's media and says that LGBT people can not be put in children's cartoons. Children will be LGBT regardless of whether they are present in media. LGBT children who have no exposure to LGBT people just get more confused, hate themselves, and... because other children are raised in this same environment, they get no acceptance from their peers. And those peers grow up to be homophobic and transphobic because the concepts are automatically "othered" to them, as well. Thus you have a hostile environment that causes LGBT children to be victimized and leads to self hatred and suicide. I have a little bit of personal experience with this.

This is absolutely disgusting. When you "other" someone like this and you turn around blame them for the effects it has on them... Well, that's really messed up. What can I even say?

(and now I feel like taking classes about all of this. Darn, I think they'll want me pretty focused on my degree in grad school. Should have minored in this!)

The other interpretation I'm getting from this is the one I really don't want you to have said... That by accepting their feelings they are turning away from what's "right" and thus end up rejecting God. Which... By the way, not all - perhaps not even most - homosexual people even end up rejecting God. They may leave their church if that church is homophobic... But I mean, if they do that and become casual Christians who don't attend church regularly, then that's just like most Christians I already know IRL that fit into a broad range of groups including conservatives.

Yes, I came to reject God and Christianity... But don't look at me as an example of the majority here. When I was raised a Christian, I never really had a belief in God for myself. I just trusted my community that there was some presence they were feeling that I wasn't having. Thus, when I grew up and was exposed to atheism, I began to see what I really was. The homophobia in the Bible certainly helped me along the way... But it wasn't just that, it was other parts of that I saw as completely and utterly immoral (and just wrong). I darn near guarantee you that if you find a parallel universe where I was straight, I would still reject the Bible morally. In theory, with that mindset I could still wholeheartedly reject the Bible, but believe there was still a deity of some kind. But my lack of belief was strong from the beginning.

52 minutes ago, Narcissus said:

Don't get me wrong, I struggle every day with this stuff because I have very strong drives where this is concerned, but acting on every impulse is not going to make us stronger as people. No one said this was easy, but it is worth the effort.

I see no struggle to overcome in being homosexual or bisexual. I see no impulse inherent specifically to homosexuality (meaning any that isn't inherent to heterosexuality as well) that is bad and needs to be "overcome".

[Narcissus 352]

@Envy

‘Wrong’ and ‘unwise,’ now apparently redefined for a new audience, are not going to be as clear as they used to be. So without that one barometer to base anything on, there are no points to be made and no clarity to be had. And pretty much everything you said is based on one-sided opinion rather than looking at both ends of the matter. Hence, you have missed the entire point. But if you refuse to see it, all the logic in the world won’t dissuade you. Unfortunately, experience will make the point better than I can. I was just hoping to save you the downsides of it.

And really, we ought to be fair, LGBT is represented in everything, including children’s cartoons, to the point of saturation. I have no idea why you think it’s the ‘other’ and some sort of minority when it’s been glorified to the point of 'hatred' toward heterosexuality. Maybe that should be called Heterophobia. I am bisexual but I can see this with clarity, why is it so impossible to understand? God loves me no matter what. All I was asking was that you consider both sides with understanding before bashing religion over it. 

Then again, you probably think you have. Like I said, experience will tell the tale, and you can't argue with life. 

[Envy 5,998]

8 hours ago, Narcissus said:

And really, we ought to be fair, LGBT is represented in everything, including children’s cartoons, to the point of saturation.

It's fair to say that LGBT representation is increasing, even in children's media. I can name three recent cartoons with LGBT representation - Steven Universe, The Loud House, and the new She-Ra. But even still... Those are all very, very recent. And Steven Universe's characters, while thankfully being clearly understood to be LGBT representation nowadays, are still coded kind of vague because the Gems are canonically genderless beings, even if female pronouns are used. She-Ra, I honestly didn't recognize a single LGBT character when watching it and actually had to look it up afterward to see. So there's that.

Even still, to call it "saturated" is a bit of overkill, don't you think? And I mean, meanwhile, MLP:FiM is still too afraid to come out and say that Lyra and Bon Bon are a couple.

To put it in the least argumentative way I can: The rest of your post justifies no response from me. Hopefully we can move on and let this topic get back on topic.

[Celli 4,332]

On 3/7/2019 at 3:06 AM, Zkrahs Yek said:

I belong to a very prestigious church. One that teaches us that the one true enemy is demons.

Thus we must follow the words of our lord and savior: "Rip and tear until it is done".

 

The church of Doomguy.

 

The only religion worth following.

[Phosphor 11,522]

I'm not a very religious person, but I am a Classical Deist. 

[Dreambiscuit 8,024]

@Narcissus

Mark 6: 11

Matthew 10: 14

Love ya.  

[Venomous 18,813]

Me and my family are Catholic. That is the religion I was raised with and I still consider myself to be associated with the religion.

[Guest]

My my... what a thread to be held in front of my very eyes. Yes, I am a Christian however I do not view Christianity sanctified as a "religion"... Denominations/Sanctions whatever the case. I believe one must dig deep to hold what is Truth in their eye and what makes perfect sense. Do not limit yourself and learn as much as you can so that you can stand up for what you believe in and defend why you have faith in your beliefs. As such... trying to be in a relationship with someone who is not well *sigh* you know I've always tried to be as open minded as possible but there are certain things in this world that I cannot associate myself with. Be it: Demonic/witchcraft/black magic and things of said nature that clearly are viewed as harmful and downright dangerous...

Edited March 10, 2019 by Gone Airbourne

[BornAgainBrony 2,395]

On 3/8/2019 at 10:14 PM, Narcissus said:

I'm a raging bisexual, but let's be completely honest with ourselves here. Homosexuality is a form of temptation, and framing it as something else is self-delusion. People in any walk of life, no matter what they're into, rationalize their behavior by calling it a 'condition,' 'weakness,' 'disease' or other 'intrinsic quality.' It may be in our nature to feel a certain way, but nature is often something to be overcome. I often struggle tremendously with my sexual orientation, but I don't consider myself a victim. I look at it as a challenge to be faced and won't be frightened away from it because it's difficult. 

I don't think you mentioned it in this thread but I'm figuring one of the major world religions. According to the Bible, everything that is Bronies, is condemnable. Regardless of sexual orientation, men doing anything 'girly' or childish is 'wrong' and would therefore fall under the definition of evil temptation. To say nothing about magic being occult/witchcraft which thou shall not suffer practitioners of to live.

[Props Valroa 26,034]

I am not really into following any religions. I want to discover the answers to myself, and so far, as of yet I have concluded that sometimes some coincidences are just too 'out there' to simply happen by mere chance. I want to believe in a god, I just don't know what to believe in, I want to discover the answers for myself, I am open to all possibilities and I will not blindly follow anything.

[kinda deleted 224]

1 hour ago, BornAgainBrony said:

I don't think you mentioned it in this thread but I'm figuring one of the major world religions. According to the Bible, everything that is Bronies, is condemnable. Regardless of sexual orientation, men doing anything 'girly' or childish is 'wrong' and would therefore fall under the definition of evil temptation. To say nothing about magic being occult/witchcraft which thou shall not suffer practitioners of to live.

KK bye gtg I gotta leave the forums. I'm doing something wrong

[BornAgainBrony 2,395]

1 hour ago, Califorum said:

I am not really into following any religions. I want to discover the answers to myself, and so far, as of yet I have concluded that sometimes some coincidences are just too 'out there' to simply happen by mere chance. I want to believe in a god, I just don't know what to believe in, I want to discover the answers for myself, I am open to all possibilities and I will not blindly follow anything.

Very similar to my take on it as I have grown. I have been given enough reason to believe 'something' is there, but I find it would be very arrogant for anyone to claim they KNOW what it is, or what it expects from us. If its even just one and not many, or even many who sometimes disagree. 

I have my own beliefs about it, but have no need to preach it to others. My opinions about what is 'wrong' though, has nothing to do with gods, and everything to do with refusing to condemn things that are in no way actually harmful.

[Partialgeek514 4,920]

I'm Christian. Specifically, I'm part of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I was raised Christian, and due to numerous personal experiences, I don't think I could ever deny the existence of Jesus Christ.

[Props Valroa 26,034]

9 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

Very similar to my take on it as I have grown. I have been given enough reason to believe 'something' is there, but I find it would be very arrogant for anyone to claim they KNOW what it is, or what it expects from us. If its even just one and not many, or even many who sometimes disagree. 

I have my own beliefs about it, but have no need to preach it to others. My opinions about what is 'wrong' though, has nothing to do with gods, and everything to do with refusing to condemn things that are in no way actually harmful.

That's pretty much what my belief is on it, it seems we believe in the same thing, kinda.

[EpicEnergy 22,074]

My religion is Christianity. More specifically, I am a Baptist.

[Celli 4,332]

I've said it before but I'm atheist, I've never been religious and I see no reason to believe in any sort of God or deity.

[Treeglow Flicker 13,015]

I'm a Mahayana Buddhist with a bit of Taoism mixed in. Also I have some personal stuff that is between myself and something/someone I refer to as Lady Fate.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 40,275]

I am an atheist. Specifically, at this point I am basically anti-religion. Note that I did not say anti-religious. I have no problem with the religious unless given a reason. However, I personally despise many religions at their core. I am also against churches as I feel they are a total waste of resources and often corrupt.

[Meson Bolt 2,647]

Eh, I'm weird.

I used to be Christian, like, hardcore Christian. But most of that wasn't really what I wanted for myself, it was forced on me by my parents and family. The rest of my family is Christian, but I'm, well, I'm not.

I believe in all the stuff the Bible says, I'm just... I dunno. I just choose to reject it, because I'm tired of being toxic my whole life. Christians, by and large, are the most judgmental people I've ever encountered. They judge you for evil stuff, of course, like swearing and killing and stealing, and rightfully so. But they don't stop there. They'll judge your lifestyle. They judge you for what video games you play, what food you eat, how much you eat, what clothes you wear, whether or not you drink, or smoke, or have tattoos, or ride a motorcycle, or listen to Linkin Park.

I guess I just got tired of being judged for all that, and said "screw it, I'd rather burn in hell than be a toxic asshole for the rest of my life".

So, I guess I'm just a heathen then? Is there even a religion for people like me? People who believe in Christian beliefs, but choose not to follow Christianity?