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(edited)

Rainbow Dash was not out of character in "2 4 6 Greaaat". Rainbow isn't into cheer leading mostly because she sees it as to girly but just cheering  for a friend is different. She mostly only knows cheering from her parents when they were cheering from the sidelines and what she knows by them is just the basics, so just teaching Fluttershy the basics of cheering is for the sidelines. Even in season 4 "Rainbow Falls" yes Twilght and Pinkie were wearing cheerleader outfits and were cheering for Ponyville but still they were just cheering not cheer leading, even with those outfits. Rainbow also looked uncomfortable when the 2 cheerleaders for Cloudsdale were cheering around her she only smiled a little for those 2 before she returned to the Ponyville team. Rainbow Dash is a tomboy being into sports, but not the cheerleaders and doesn't pay attention and/or as she said in "2 4 6 Greaaat" ponies get snacks during it. She never has been interested into cheer leading and only the basics of cheering in general but nothing about the overall process of cheer leading makes sense.

Edited by Shady Mist
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Playing sports and cheering are different things and I felt bad for Rainbow since she was stuck with that job and, worse, she was expected to do great. After all, a coach is a coach, right? I wonder how a basketball coach would do coaching a football team. 

And now writing this reminded me of a certain episode of "Full Metal Panic? Fumoffu". 

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(edited)
1 hour ago, Pentium100 said:

Playing sports and cheering are different things and I felt bad for Rainbow since she was stuck with that job and, worse, she was expected to do great. After all, a coach is a coach, right? I wonder how a basketball coach would do coaching a football team. 

And now writing this reminded me of a certain episode of "Full Metal Panic? Fumoffu". 

Exactly, there are a lot of fans that don't understand that's how "2 4 6 Greaaat" was intended to be taken and that this is not out of Rainbow Dash's character.

Edited by Shady Mist

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Rainbow's reaction is what my reaction is when someone asks me to design a web site. Just because I know how to configure a web server and a bit of php does not mean that I could design a good site for you (since I have zero artistic ability). Thankfully such requests are very infrequent now.

And in the episode Rainbow just took whatever the others were prepared before and managed to get them to perform that without interfering with each other instead of trying to make something new. Something I would have done too, since I would not be able to think of anything else.

Skills can be separate - a great car mechanic, for example, can be absolutely terrible at running a business, since those two things do not have much in common. 

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Mm... perhaps... but that doesn't excuse her acting like a complete jerk and total asshat, making the students feel like crap.  Maybe cheering isn't important to her, and maybe she doesn't "get it", but she's the professor, and they're the experts in friendship now.  Doesn't mean they're not allowed to ever make a mistake, but there's a difference between a mistake and basically repeatedly telling the students that they're idiots and wasting their time for being cheerleaders.  I did not like seeing that.

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1 hour ago, Justin_Case001 said:

that doesn't excuse her acting like a complete jerk and total asshat, making the students feel like crap. 

It doesn't excuse her, but it is still a part of her character to behave like that from time to time.

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13 minutes ago, DonMaguz said:

It doesn't excuse her, but it is still a part of her character to behave like that from time to time.

Mm... I suppose.  If House taught us anything, it's that people don't change.

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2 minutes ago, Justin_Case001 said:

Mm... I suppose.  If House taught us anything, it's that people don't change.

That's an nasty outlook on life

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Rainbow did not handle the situation that great, but then again, Rainbow may be incapable of admitting that she sucks at something. She is always awesome and cool, so if she is not very good at something it's obviously because that something is lame and boring.

While people change somewhat, I do not think they change a lot, unless they went trough a traumatic experience. Or the change is so gradual it takes decades to see a difference. How long do you think would take Twilight to stop overreacting so much?

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(edited)
59 minutes ago, Pentium100 said:

Or the change is so gradual it takes decades to see a difference. How long do you think would take Twilight to stop overreacting so much?

Not only Twilight, but Fluttershy in "Fame and Misfortune".

Fluttershy: "Listen up, I am more assertive! And yes, it took me a while  to get there, but can you honestly say that you can learn something one time and completely change who you are? I don't think so." 

And the entire song from "Fame and Misfortune" saying that their not flawless.

Edited by Shady Mist

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What do you call Wonderbolts flight demonstrations? Part choreographed dance, part fireworks show, and designed to rally a viwers into a frenzy. It should be no problem to apply her experience to cheerleading. It's a very similar form of crowd-pleasing. And she knows how to improvise too, albeit maybe not so well executed; as shown by the time she tried to use storm clouds to make an airshow that much more spectacular. She'd be furious for the use of the term as it's been used in the show, but the Wonderbolts are essentially show-ponies with EUP privileges (or EUP members with showpony experience). Her experience as a Wonderbolt should have made putting together a cheerleading routine relatively easy.

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Asking a stunt pilot to organize cheering still may not go very well. Just because someone can fly a plane upside down under a bridge, does not mean that he can organize a show that does not involve flying. I mean if all the cheerleaders could fly Rainbow could probably have put together a good airshow even if the students were not strong fliers.

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On 8/28/2019 at 10:54 AM, Justin_Case001 said:

Mm... I suppose.  If House taught us anything, it's that people don't change.

Starlight would like to have a word with you.

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On 8/29/2019 at 6:05 PM, heavens-champion said:

Starlight would like to have a word with you.

Umm.... I said people, not ponies!  I'm good!  And Sunset is really a pony, too!  Airtight!  :ticking::laugh:  Lol.  But hey, I'm on the side that Rainbow has changed a lot, and that her behavior in... um... whatever that stupid episode was called was an ooc regression.  The House thing was more a joke, really.

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(edited)

I especially love how they remembered the butterfly wings from the same episode, but obviously they couldn't have been bothered to watch the whole episode in general if they completely disregarded the entire opening. "B-but cheering isn't the same as cheerleading!" doesn't matter, they both fulfill the same goal and RD has shown to have a huge appreciation and passion for it, hell her freaking parents are spazzes about it. RD shouldn't have been forced to be a cheerleading coach and Twilight's dick move at the end reeks of the writers smelling their own farts thinking they're so clever about their lesson. It's her last episode in the whole damn show and it's a big Fuck You of an episode that's spent actively hating the audience and the character it's focused on

Edited by Kiryu-Chan
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1 hour ago, Kiryu-Chan said:

I especially love how they remembered the butterfly wings from the same episode, but obviously they couldn't have been bothered to watch the whole episode in general if they completely disregarded the entire opening. "B-but cheering isn't the same as cheerleading!" doesn't matter, they both fulfill the same goal and RD has shown to have a huge appreciation and passion for it, hell her freaking parents are spazzes about it. RD shouldn't have been forced to be a cheerleading coach and Twilight's dick move at the end reeks of the writers smelling their own farts thinking they're so clever about their lesson. It's her last episode in the whole damn show and it's spent actively hating the audience and the character it's focused on

Ugh.. now I realize why some are thinking they must hate RD. If this was her final episode? Blech. :(  The most recent one with Fluttershy was a bit off, but felt so more rewarding. 2,4,6,Great is just nearly an entire episode of Rainbow Dash being an insensitive jerk, and doesn't even hint at showing her better attributes. The Buckball episode with with Quibblepants was a million times better for that reason. The finale had better be giving her something really special to do.

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(edited)

Yea, Rainbow was a jerk in this episode. Then again, I do not really blame her. It is something that she may not be interested in and something that was essentially forced on her. The skills for cheerleading and the skills for stunt flying pretty much have nothing in common. Well, unless Rainbow was given a team of pegasus ponies, then she may have been able to put together an airshow and call that cheerleading. Other than that, cheerleading is essentially a dance and I do not remember it being shown that Rainbow likes dancing.

Also, cheering for your team etc as a spectator also does not really have anything in common with cheerleading. I can yell or whistle from my seat as well as anyone, but I would not be able to perform any cheerleading moves. Or maybe Rainbow could have got the students to just stand there and try to emulate royal Canterlot voice...

I personally dislike this sort of thinking "oh, you're good at something, here, do something that is almost completely unrelated, but looks related if you look at it from far away", so I was with Rainbow in this episode. Thoigh if I was in her place, I probably would just have told Twilight "no, go find someone more suitable". 

And when Rainbow went to her friends for help, they either just gave her something they had (Applejack and Pinkie) and told her to figure out how to use it or did what was normal to them (Rarity designs clothes for a living), so it was just Rainbow that had to do something unusual for her.

Edited by Pentium100

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It's not that she was out of character; it's that Friendship socialism narrative of FIM cannot properly use characters like Rainbow Dash in a positive way.

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13 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

It's not that she was out of character; it's that Friendship socialism narrative of FIM cannot properly use characters like Rainbow Dash in a positive way.

A character conveniently forgetting what element they represent for an entire episode is not even remotely a good example to support that claim.

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1 hour ago, BornAgainBrony said:

A character conveniently forgetting what element they represent for an entire episode is not even remotely a good example to support that claim.

Ara, ara, do elaborate. How was poor little Dashie disloyal this time around? What kind of loyalty are you all even expecting? Are we talking Death Korps of Krieg or average teenage girl level?

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(edited)
On 9/1/2019 at 1:16 PM, Goat-kun said:

It's not that she was out of character; it's that Friendship socialism narrative of FIM cannot properly use characters like Rainbow Dash in a positive way.

 

To put it in a way, Rainbow Dash's loyalty has been abused. The problem for the episode was Twilight being manipulative making RD be the subject to learn an unneeded lesson when she should be past this point and teaching others. It's like the show wants to punish RD for having her own likes and dislikes, with the show forcing her to do things she doesn't want to do.

For a school of friendship, the cheer squad should have by majority been the students figuring it out while the coach takes a hands off approach with minor input to give some direction and structure. It would have been a way to teach them to figure out their own problems and work it out.

Edited by Singe

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On 9/1/2019 at 3:24 PM, Goat-kun said:

Ara, ara, do elaborate. How was poor little Dashie disloyal this time around? What kind of loyalty are you all even expecting? Are we talking Death Korps of Krieg or average teenage girl level?

 

When was the last time Dash outright made someone cry and wasn't even fazed by it? She even sarcastically pokes fun at it. This isn't even a stranger, this is one of her students. And as such it isn't even a question of "Friendship Socialism" anymore, this is just common sense from a school professor, even in our world. This is also HER school, and there's no way anyone can convince me that someone as competitive as Rainbow Dash doesn't grasp school spirit.

The only time I can think of where Dash even came close to this level of insensitivity was in Season 1, particularly "Running of the Leaves." Dash who as a filly coached Fluttershy even though she was a terrible flyer. Dash who coached Scootaloo even though she legit CAN'T fly. Dash who coached Quibblepants even though he was an egghead. Rainbow Dash has practically made a hobby of helping the helpless to get better at whatever they're trying to accomplish. In this episode she was borderline bullying the squad for needing help. Of all characters, it's Smolder who ends up telling Dash off. When even she can tell you're being a complete prick, that should be a pretty big wake-up call on it's own. Dash's rebuttal? Calling them idiots for not knowing how to use a party cannon.

Normally this would just be disregarded as a bad episode, but this was likely the FINAL Dash episode. And that left a nasty taste. Both that and "Trivial Pursuit," and even the newest U.S. release episode, as entertaining as it was. I'm not sure what prompted this decision. But taking a bit from your sarcastic impression of the "Harmony" dogma in the show, I think even you'd agree that if the writers were going to follow the rules established in the universe, then this is the WORST time to have any member of the Mane 6 being this daft. The final showdown is about to happen. The Mane 6 are 10th degree blackbelts in their friendship-fu, and should be well past the point of making such basic mistakes. Doesn't mean they still can't screw up, but would it have made too much sense if all the knowledge they've accumulated was spent teaching others, instead of relearning things they should have had licked long ago?

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4 minutes ago, BornAgainBrony said:

Dash who as a filly coached Fluttershy even though she was a terrible flyer. Dash who coached Scootaloo even though she legit CAN'T fly. Dash who coached Quibblepants even though he was an egghead. Rainbow Dash has practically made a hobby of helping the helpless to get better at whatever they're trying to accomplish.

So, Dash tried to teach flying to a few ponies and also tried to tech sports to one pony. The things she is interested in and is passionate about. That still does not make it OK to force her to teach chess (I imagine Dash would find it boring), properly digging a ditch or cheerleading.

And I understand why she is so annoyed the whole episode and acts like that, even though it may not be proper way to act. Not only she was told to do something she has no interest in (and, in turn, prevented from doing something she feels strongly about) but she was also expected to do great at that thing by everyone.

"Hey, Rainbow, I know you like sports and competition."
"Yep, I'm the fastest pony there is, both at flying and running!"
"Great, could you tech this kid how to play chess?"
"That's egghead stuff, go ask Twilight!"
"Nah, chess is a sport and it's competitive. How different is that from running or flying very fast?"

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17 hours ago, Singe said:

To put it in a way, Rainbow Dash's loyalty has been abused. The problem for the episode was Twilight being manipulative making RD be the subject to learn an unneeded lesson when she should be past this point and teaching others. It's like the show wants to punish RD for having her own likes and dislikes, with the show forcing her to do things she doesn't want to do.

For a school of friendship, the cheer squad should have by majority been the students figuring it out while the coach takes a hands off approach with minor input to give some direction and structure. It would have been a way to teach them to figure out their own problems and work it out.

The way I see it, it is not her loyalty that is being abused, but her character. To even remotely hint that loyalty has anything to do with this episode would be an act of complete issue-peddling lunacy. Then again, I do call in Friendship socialism, don't I. Guess I was bending my claims just a little ;)

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13 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

When was the last time Dash outright made someone cry and wasn't even fazed by it? She even sarcastically pokes fun at it. This isn't even a stranger, this is one of her students. And as such it isn't even a question of "Friendship Socialism" anymore, this is just common sense from a school professor, even in our world. This is also HER school, and there's no way anyone can convince me that someone as competitive as Rainbow Dash doesn't grasp school spirit.

The only time I can think of where Dash even came close to this level of insensitivity was in Season 1, particularly "Running of the Leaves." Dash who as a filly coached Fluttershy even though she was a terrible flyer. Dash who coached Scootaloo even though she legit CAN'T fly. Dash who coached Quibblepants even though he was an egghead. Rainbow Dash has practically made a hobby of helping the helpless to get better at whatever they're trying to accomplish. In this episode she was borderline bullying the squad for needing help. Of all characters, it's Smolder who ends up telling Dash off. When even she can tell you're being a complete prick, that should be a pretty big wake-up call on it's own. Dash's rebuttal? Calling them idiots for not knowing how to use a party cannon.

Normally this would just be disregarded as a bad episode, but this was likely the FINAL Dash episode. And that left a nasty taste. Both that and "Trivial Pursuit," and even the newest U.S. release episode, as entertaining as it was. I'm not sure what prompted this decision. But taking a bit from your sarcastic impression of the "Harmony" dogma in the show, I think even you'd agree that if the writers were going to follow the rules established in the universe, then this is the WORST time to have any member of the Mane 6 being this daft. The final showdown is about to happen. The Mane 6 are 10th degree blackbelts in their friendship-fu, and should be well past the point of making such basic mistakes. Doesn't mean they still can't screw up, but would it have made too much sense if all the knowledge they've accumulated was spent teaching others, instead of relearning things they should have had licked long ago?

It has everything to do with Friendship socialism. They are using RD as a tool to make a point that has nothing to do with RD herself. She just has conveniently exploitable traits. "Not trying to prove a point" is the cure to RD's salvation, or at least it would be. Too late. GG go G5. You see, Friendship socialism is not something that exists strictly within the show. It is the narrative that is forced in no matter the cost.

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