S09:E18 - She Talks to Angel

[Rushing cash 824]

So... overall I really liked this episode. We got actual characterization for angel, his relationship with shy, more zecora and a lot of fan moments, the whole scene with shy and angle in ponyville was amazing. And of course the line that angel delivered when he got to the sanctuary about shy and discord was very funny(and will cause some havoc). And I have to say, the thing about predators having to live without eating other animals doesn't bother me in the least, since its a cartoon, and this world had much stranger things so real life animals aren't comparable to these. Great episode, as usual nick knows how to write comedy. 9\10

Flutter shy apparently can use the stare even as a bunny. Or is it just works just on her pets? https://derpibooru.org/2090993?q=she+talks+to+angel

I love this scene https://derpibooru.org/2089875?q=she+talks+to+angel

This awesome face:

 

[Sparklefan1234 161,815]

I don't like episodes where characters are mean so, I wasn't a fan of "She Talks to Angel". 

[ShootingStar159 2,155]

48 minutes ago, BastementSparkle said:

I feel like Flutters wouldn't do this unless it was safe for the animals, considering that I have to assume the carnivores are capable of keeping a herbivorous diet in Equestria, at least temporarily.

 Equestrian animals are already clearly not necessarily the same as real world animals, as they have enough intelligence for Fluttershy to be able to speak to them seemingly in the same way she could any pony and since they have things like book clubs, so they can apparently even read.

Look... I take this attitude with a lot of things in this show. It’s a fantasy world in a fairy tale setting, so it’s fine for the most part. But the difference between two princesses raising the son and moon or bird horses controlling weather, and giving animals a “vegan” diet, is that people actually try and do the latter. This is setting a horrible example for any audience watching, no matter how much you try and hand wave the problem away with the magical setting.

 

If an episode had a pro-antivax message, I don’t think anyone would be trying to explain it away with the setting. Veganism should always be a choice you make for yourself, it should never be something you force onto someone else, pet, child, anyone. As an aside, never, ever give an animal chocolate, it’s poison to just about any animal that isn’t a human.

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

Dumbo in this universe still get bullied and even get eaten alive, nature must be cruel. The snake with a cookie jar is one of the silliest scene of S9, on par with the flock of cockatrice don't know how to get pass the wall scene. How can you force a carnivous creature eat cookie instead of meat? That's cute and nonsensical at the same time. I still don't understand Equestria as much as I thought.

 

[BastementSparkle 20,312]

Just now, ShootingStar159 said:

Look... I take this attitude with a lot of things in this show. It’s a fantasy world in a fairy tale setting, so it’s fine for the most part. But the difference between two princesses raising the son and moon or bird horses controlling weather, and giving animals a “vegan” diet, is that people actually try and do the latter. This is setting a horrible example for any audience watching, no matter how much you try and hand wave the problem away with the magical setting.

 

If an episode had a pro-antivax message, I don’t think anyone would be trying to explain it away with the setting. Veganism should always be a choice you make for yourself, it should never be something you force onto someone else, pet, child, anyone. As an aside, never, ever give an animal chocolate, it’s poison to just about any animal that isn’t a human.

For your first point, I think worrying that someone might take that part the wrong way and think it's fine to give real life animals a "Vegan" diet is a real concern, and I'd hope that any adults watching should be smart enough to know that's dumb and parents might be able to explain it to their kids, though obviously since there are people who will try to keep their pets on a vegan diet, not everyone actually is this smart.

 My point was more aimed at the potential in-universe issues than real life concerns though, in-universe Fluttershy knows animals really well and I trust she'd never hurt them, in-universe the Equestrian animals are very clearly not the same as our worlds animals, and also the Snake actually did in fact agree to the diet after trying one of the cookies, further cementing the difference between it and an actual snake. I think they probably shouldn't have included the vegan part for the potential real life implications too, but I'm separating that from in universe stuff here.

[StitchandMLPlover 930]

MLP season 9 episode 18

 

SPOILER ALERT! So not one of my top favorite episodes but definitely a HUGE improvement over “2,4,6 Great” and “Trivial Pursuit” and really likable. Even though a similar concept was used for “A Royal Problem” the writers were able to use the episode to their advantage to do something they have not done before which is to develop Angel Bunny as a 3 dimensional character with a real range of emotion. It was interesting to learn how Angel experiences the world and that he truly is mute even compared to Fluttershy’s other animals. It was a neat lesson that people who do not communicate verbally still have a full range of thoughts and feelings which seems to be something our society easily forgets. Since mutism is generally considered a disability it can be thought of as another example of Disability Representation in addition to Scootaloo. I like how the writers managed to let us see both sides of Angel and Fluttershy’s conflict without making me hate either character. Andrea Libman rocked it as Angel! Andrea is SO talented! It was fantastic to see Zecora again finally before the series ends! It was also nice to see what Fluttershy does at her sanctuary in more detail. The only thing I didn’t like was Fluttershy trying to teach all animals to be Vegan because even though its a magical world, and probably meant as a reference/joke about Vegans, Fluttershy should know better, that animals need their natural diet to survive.

P.S Go give Big Jim and DHX some love today with #ThankYouBigJim for me PLEASE? 

[YoshiAngemon 223]

I missed the first part of the episode, so I had to arrive late, but I would've wanted Discord to enjoy the chaos. But I'm sure he wasn't the kind who would enjoy Chaos that happens to his friend Fluttershy.

[Will Guide 21,325]

I like how when "Flutter Bunny" gives a dismissive "Being a bunny should be easy" gesture to "Angel Pony"

[Dark Qiviut 22,172]

Yes, real-life snakes can’t eat vegan. Wolves are also primarily carnivorous, though wolf feces showed to eat some vegetation. If the animals behaved they do here, then yes, having carnivores eat vegan food here would be animal abuse.

So why does it work here? Because the show makes clear two things.

1. The animals here aren’t like the ones in real life. They may not talk and act animalistic at times, but they can communicate with those who can talk very well, think, and act sapient.
2. Fluttershy establishes an important rule in the sanctuary: no eating other animals inside. The sanctuary is a safe space for ALL animals big or small. She proposed it first, and everyone (including the snake, whose desire to eat the elephant proved pivotal) agreed to it.

Edited August 31, 2019 by Dark Qiviut

[Partialgeek514 4,920]

All I have to say about this episode is, is that I LOVED it!!! 

[Ganondox 899]

4 hours ago, BastementSparkle said:

I feel like Flutters wouldn't do this unless it was safe for the animals, considering that I have to assume the carnivores are capable of keeping a herbivorous diet in Equestria, at least temporarily.

 Equestrian animals are already clearly not necessarily the same as real world animals, as they have enough intelligence for Fluttershy to be able to speak to them seemingly in the same way she could any pony and since they have things like book clubs, so they can apparently even read.

The odd thing is that in an early episode we saw Fluttershy feeding fish to otters. 

[Oleks 1,983]

An episode I didn’t know I needed. One of the funniest of the season, and a great display of Andrea Libman’s magnificent voice acting. Also, what’s the point of Grogar, now that the greatest evil of Equestria got the spotlight? I mean, Angel is so evil that he didn’t even care that his body might die when Fluttershy went to Zecora and faced all those dangers. Speaking of Zecora, she is still full of surprises. I feel like we could learn so much more about her, but alas…

Should I feel embarrassed that I would still like Fluttershy even if she acted like Flutterangel all the time? Well then.

Spoiler

During the whole episode I’ve been waiting for Clementine to break the act and finally start talking. But she’s too good at playing a mute animal. I guess I have to wait some more.

 

[Will Guide 21,325]

13 minutes ago, Oleks said:

Angel is so evil that he didn’t even care that his body might die when Fluttershy went to Zecora and faced all those dangers.

What the heck are you saying? Angel very clearly was concerned when Flutter Bunny came back near exhausted and finally understood why Fluttershy told him that amazing tasty carrot was only to be used to revitalize animals in critical condition. Angel learned the hard way the responsibilities Shy has to go through and Shy learn how tough it is to be a small bunny that can't be understood and preyed upon by other predators.

[Oleks 1,983]

3 minutes ago, Will Guide said:

What the heck are you saying? Angel very clearly was concerned when Flutter Bunny came back near exhausted and finally understood why Fluttershy told him that amazing tasty carrot was only to be used to revitalize animals in critical condition. Angel learned the hard way the responsibilities Shy has to go through and Shy learn how tough it is to be a small bunny that can't be understood and preyed upon by other predators.

Yes, he was concerned after the fact. But his intitial reaction was "Good luck with going there by yourself, I'm gonna go grab some carrots". 

[Ganondorf8 11,118]

As soon as the main conflict made itself known, I was immediately reminded of Freaky Friday, a trope that has been done countless times in other cartoons. As such, you could tell how things were going to turn out. I wasn't expecting Angel to take to being a pony so quickly, and props go to Andrea Libman for adjusting her usual Fluttershy voice to make it sound more gruff to accommodate for Angel. I was surprised to see Zecora again though I suspect that this will be her last speaking appearance. Still, it's nice to know the staff didn't forget that she existed.

Will this episode change people's opinions of Angel? Hard to say given how he's one of the more despised characters due to his behaviour in the past. But, he has had some good moments where one wants to smile and say that he was simply adorable. Understanding what Fluttershy has to go through will definitely have him see her in a different light; the same can be said for her seeing Angel in a similar manner. And then we have that one line Angel says that I'm sure a vast majority are going to be thinking about. I don't need to repeat it since I know most already know what it was.

The only other thing I can say is the method with which Zecora used to set this all up. Some would say that she was being callous about it. Others that she was doing what she thought would best help get Fluttershy and Angel to finally appreciate one another. Me? I'm leaning more towards the latter though I do have to question some of the tactics Zecora used. I wouldn't be surprised that she knew exactly how everything would turn out given her penchant as a shaman. This episode was decent overall though I wouldn't put it up there among the best of what the series has done.

[Will Guide 21,325]

Just now, Oleks said:

Yes, he was concerned after the fact. But his intitial reaction was "Good luck with going there by yourself, I'm gonna go grab some carrots". 

Because he's been ignored for so long, of course he would have a bad attitude. But that so does not make him the greatest evil in Equestria as you claim.

Truly evil people show no remorse for their actions which he does in the end. Tirek, Chrysalis, and Cozy in the past have done so much worse than Angel ever could.

[Oleks 1,983]

2 minutes ago, Will Guide said:

Because he's been ignored for so long, of course he would have a bad attitude. But that so does not make him the greatest evil in Equestria as you claim.

Truly evil people show no remorse for their actions which he does in the end. Tirek, Chrysalis, and Cozy in the past have done so much worse than Angel ever could.

I was joking when I called him the greatest evil in Equestria. Don't take it to heart. His attitude has always been kinda mischievous and spoilt, but he's obviously with the good guys. I mean, in the comics he even saved Ponyville once.

[Will Guide 21,325]

38 minutes ago, Oleks said:

I was joking when I called him the greatest evil in Equestria. Don't take it to heart. His attitude has always been kinda mischievous and spoilt, but he's obviously with the good guys. I mean, in the comics he even saved Ponyville once.

Kinda hard to tell when you're joking through text only with some kind of LOL or laughing emoji or something to tell me when you're joking or serious. So no harm done.

[Oleks 1,983]

23 minutes ago, Will Guide said:

Kinda hard to tell when you're joking through text only with some kind of LOL or laughing emoji or something to tell me when you're joking or serious. So no harm done.

Honestly, I miss the time when people didn't have to use emojis to show they are joking, but OK.

[ImpctR 155]

Beware, it is Cuteness  Time  but also it was touching for me, for the first time I felt such touching moment in many episodes so far.  Good writing by Nick Confalone, im glad another trustworthy writer for possibly the last Fluttershy based episode. Back when there were no much other creatures, not Princess Twilight Sparkle, Wonderbolts, School Six, Pillars and many other things, I had to choose my favorite pony from the Mane 6 and that was ofc Fluttershy. This (final) episode just reconfirmed it and I'm glad what started as gags did not turn the whole episode into faces, so good. It is also the first time the relationship with Angel has been addressed and the first time so much of the Sanctuary was done.  

So it's been some time since we saw Fluttery or maybe never saw how much work she had to do. Funny animal chase in the Sanctuary and this was an opportunity to have more Zecora with this episode. The plot itself - totally switched is one I've seen in other 'girly' shows. So having that in MLP started with curiosity how it would develop.

 

Spoiler

 

 

Firstly, Im not like - someone acts bad therefore I have to hate this episode to the depths! I don't understand disliking an episode because someone acted badly UNLESS that one was portrayed way out of character, in which case I would agree. However, that's not the case. Angel THE BUNNY is a known GANGSTA i tell you - remember the episode where he turned into a GIANT BUNNIZILLA? I've forgotten the episode, it was Season 4 or 5 or 6. Or maybe even earlier.

 

But now... gosh Angel the devil showed his teeth, so nasty, I felt sorry for Fluttershy, the episode was written really well to make you feel sorry for her. Yes I know they tried to show that Angel's life sucks too but it was not as touching or at all as Flut's position.

So we see some salamander or who knows what, some fairy lizard that can breathe fire. This is where I feared too many gags and I didn't need that from A Trivial Pursuit, luckily it was what I thought cuteness and more cuteness Fltutershy!

 

Spoiler

 

 

Then we learn how busy Fluttershy is and they go to Zecora that acts like a psychologist and they reveal their probs. Zecora's potions have been causing more probs multiple times, dont know why they would trust her!

 

Spoiler

 

 

Then we see switched Angel into Flut's body and his bad boy style or how much of an arse he is. Well, I never cared what he's like like I have no interest in the critters like Tank and that little gator.

And from part 3 oh my this part was touching, ofc I knew Fluttershy was gonna be alright but seeing her like that  i've never seen her so miserable even as Angel, not by any villain this part touched me, they conveyed the message really well, I rarely feel such things in other episodes.

Never got my eyes wet seeing Angel Fluttershy like that

 

Spoiler

 

And I know some justice bronies may say Zecora totally needs to get responsibility sought from her but... again Equestria is neither US nor any particular place, I dont think they want to punish such characters or have such plots in this show, Im not expecting or wanting that either,. But STOP, no more of her crazy potions.

 

Heck writers. Really touched and melted the ice with this episode a really fine episode for a final focused on Fluttershy and 5/5

 

Edited August 31, 2019 by ImpctR

[BornAgainBrony 2,395]

On 8/30/2019 at 3:45 PM, Spidey10 said:

Surprised it took this long to get a body swap episode. You can tell Libman is having a blast voicing Angelshy.

Royal Problem "sorta" did the Freaky Friday thing with two characters finally understanding how hard the other has it, so while it felt like it was going over previous territory in a way, it didn't bother me in the least.

This was both cute and hilarious. Predators and Prey learning to live together. Angel acting out from being ignored. And all the feels.

Random things.

• Yes, the Discord moment. LOL! 
• Snake eating an elephant... I don't know why this would be done in this episode, because I don't see the relevance, but is it a nod to "The Little Prince?"
• That little thing Angel does near the end, is that actually the Snoopy dance or is it just me?
• Geckos come in many colors. The "Fire Lizard" just happens to have the same base color as Charmeleon. Might be intentional, might not be.
• Zecora is a TROLL!!! A benevolent one, but a troll nonetheless.

[Dark Qiviut 22,172]

After reading through other comments offsite, yeah, there’s definitely something to consider regarding Zecora’s plan. Understanding how both Fluttershy and Angel were equally at fault for their friction, she created a potion to make them see each others’ shoes, here by swapping their bodies. From that point, Angel and Fluttershy undergo a massive trial to make them understand each other more.

So what’s the problem? Zecora’s plan helped put Fluttershy and so many others in massive danger.

1. On her way to her house, a hawk almost picked up Fluttershy; she was severely lucky not to become his next meal.
2. Zecora suggested that she knew Fluttershy was in Angel’s body. However, rather than help her get to the sanctuary safely, they split, and she let her hop off into the Everfree Forest unsupervised. Again, lucky not to be eaten.
3. She ran nonstop back to the Ponyville Animal Sanctuary and needed the medicinal carrot concentrate to recuperate. Had Angel round up the troops and get Muriel out from Antoine’s stomach, chances of Fluttershy becoming really sick and dying from exhaustion and dehydration increase.
4. At the very end of the episode, Zecora winked, implicating some forethought into her plan. That some things will go wrong, but be alright at the end. But you can’t predict everything will go smoothly. God forbid one of the animals or Fluttershy got badly hurt or died; what would she have to say to Dr. Fauna, Angel (who’d be stuck in Fluttershy’s body), or FS’s friends? Murial was swallowed whole and in the process of being dissolved.
   
   Yes, Angel’s selfishness (wanting carrots, attention, and control to herself) was the reason why the sanctuary became so disarrayed in the first place. If he took her job seriously, then he wouldn’t be forced to out himself as Angel in her body and have to convince the other animals to place any faith into him. Zecora never saw anything they went through, so she perhaps has no idea of the specifics. But Zecora’s reckless plan contributed to it in the form of collateral damage, yet was written completely in the right.
5. Zecora’s rhymes are like riddles. Once you understand them, then it becomes easy. But that makes the lesson Z tried to teach too vague. Had she explained the potion’s purpose and cure much more clearly beforehand, then they could have taken more precautions to learn the lesson more safely.

That said, is what she did anywhere nearly as bad as others in the past? No.

1. In Sonic Rainboom, Celestia sat back while Rarity plunged from the sky, greatly increasing the risk of her and the Wonderbolts’ odds of dying. But all the attention (both in the story and characters) was Dash successfully unleashing the Sonic Rainboom, not saving their lives. Sorry, the climax wasn’t truly rewarding at all.
2. Celestia intentionally left behind her sick phoenix so Fluttershy would learn a lesson of friendship.
3. Celestia and Luna put thousands of reborn lives at risk to see if Twilight could pass their next test and put her one step closer to coronation. The whole two-parter emphasized the test over saving the Crystal Ponies’ lives.
4. Just a few weeks ago, Twilight intentionally sabotaged her friendly buckball tournament between the School of Friendship and Gifted Unicorns just to see if Dash could swallow her pride and lead the cheer squad. She created an unnecessary conflict that almost singlehandedly ruined it.

In She Talks to Angel… 

1. The conflict between Angel and FS had been building for some time. By the time they agreed to go to her hut, tension between them reached the breaking point.
2. Neither Fluttershy nor Angel were at their most pleasant. Along with not seeing each other eye to eye, they didn’t take the other side seriously. Angel accused FS of hogging all of her time from him in favor of teaching and care-taking, and Fluttershy dismissed his interference and desire to be with her as being spoiled and lazy. They oversimplified the other side without properly taking everything into account.
3. Entering her hut and taking Zecora’s potion was the last possible solution for them both. Angel was way too anxious to take the potion (ignoring Zecora’s prior warning of doing it alone and at home, thus away from danger), and Fluttershy dismissed being a bunny as an easy life. Angel's impulsiveness got them into this mess, and why they each learned their lesson the hard way was partly their own doing.

Edited August 31, 2019 by Dark Qiviut

[BornAgainBrony 2,395]

7 minutes ago, Dark Qiviut said:

So what’s the problem? Zecora’s plan helped put Fluttershy and so many others in massive danger.

In She Talks to Angel…

Neither Fluttershy nor Angel were at their most pleasant. Along with not seeing each other eye to eye, they didn’t take the other side seriously. Angel accused FS of hogging all of her time from him in favor of teaching and care-taking, and Fluttershy dismissed his interference and desire to be with her as being spoiled and lazy. They oversimplified the other

Yeah, you're not wrong. This isn't even the first time Zecora has done something like this that leads to some rather chaotic lesson learning. She's almost as bad as Discord in that regard, possibly worse.

It is odd that Fluttershy had that much trouble realizing that she was ignoring Angel. But getting tied up with work 100% of the time is such an easy trap to fall into. It almost comes off feeling like the stereotypical parent who is working all the time and has no time for the kid. From that standpoint, this really is the classic Freaky Friday story, right down to the mother/daughter parallel.

Something else I'm wondering now... is this feeling of being overlooked the reason that Angel has been such a troublemaker through the entire series?

[Truffles 2,033]

52 minutes ago, ImpctR said:

However, that's not the case. Angel THE BUNNY is a known GANGSTA i tell you - remember the episode where he turned into a GIANT BUNNIZILLA? I've forgotten the episode, it was Season 4 or 5 or 6. Or maybe even earlier.

Are you thinking of "Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep?" In that one Fluttershy was imagining Angel as a monster, and then later that version of him helped defeat the Tantabus. But it's not clear in the second case whether that was the real Angel in the shared dream or just Fluttershy conjuring him again from her memories.

 

49 minutes ago, Dark Qiviut said:

On her way to her house, a hawk almost picked up Fluttershy; she was severely lucky not to become his next meal.

Zecora suggested that she knew Fluttershy was in Angel’s body. However, rather than help her get to the sanctuary safely, they split, and she let her hop off into the Everfree Forest unsupervised. Again, lucky not to be eaten.
...
That said, is what she did anywhere nearly as bad as others in the past? No.
...
Just a few weeks ago, Twilight intentionally sabotaged her friendly buckball tournament between the School of Friendship and Gifted Unicorns just to see if Dash could swallow her pride and lead the cheer squad. She created an unnecessary conflict that almost singlehandedly ruined it.

Given those possible unfortunate outcomes of the first two vs. the possible unfortunate outcome of the last, I would say having the danger of Fluttershy getting eaten is a lot more reckless than the Cheer Squad potentially disbanding. I guess I find it hard to believe she somehow knew everything would work out given that Fluttershy was now prey to the rest of the forest. Didn't she learn anything from her experience with the roc, lol? This is probably the episode where Zecora is the least in the right.

Having said all that, like with Twilight a few weeks ago, the recklessness of her plan didn't bother me all that much. It's not like the show would ever have Fluttershy get seriously hurt. (Now her getting emotionally hurt - well, that's another matter, as embarrassed and heartbroken Flutters has been a thing in past episodes. )

 

As for the rest of the episode, I liked it well enough, but not enough to push it into the "loved" category. It was a nice little low-drama episode, unlike 15 and 16 and...

Spoiler

...others. Soon.

My feelings have less to do with Zecora's plan but instead with it feeling like a missed opportunity. I pretty much agree with Dr. Wolf in this instance in that Angel is a character who has had beefs with several others over the years, and this episode didn't take any advantage of it. (Other than that one little line regarding Discord, lol.) I'm not sure why the animal sanctuary was a setting that needed to be revisited. I felt the episode was at its funniest when Angel was going through town making light of his ability to talk with the other ponies. I would have liked to have seen more of that since that's where I felt the episode scored points on humor. It's funny that Spike, one of his bigger rivals (next to Discord), even appeared in this episode but the two never got a chance to meet and have Angel tell Spike how he really feels about all those times he was pet-sat by him.

One thing that didn't bother me was the whole vegan scene where Fluttershy tells the predators they can't eat the prey animals while in the sanctuary. I saw some comments that complained about forcing carnivores to go meatless, but it wouldn't make sense to have a sanctuary where some of the injured animals could get eaten. I'm not sure the episode did the right thing by making the snake eat cookies, however. I guess Fluttershy should have had a supply of processed fish meat for them to eat, since fish appear to be fair game when it comes to sources of protein.

So this is supposedly Nick Confalone's last episode of the series. While it's not a bad one to go out on, his crowning achievement will always be "The Break-Up, Break-Down."

[Brainstorm 4,092]

One of the things that surprises me is, Fluttershy can still use The Stare on Angel, even as a bunny.

Also, Angel now understands  Fluttershy even better and gives more respect.