Jump to content
Banner by ~ Ice Princess Silky

Do you think the oceans aren't as fleshed out as the lands of the pony world?


Newman1651

Recommended Posts

Looking back, especially at the current time that this is the final season, I feel the oceans of the pony world haven't received as much attention as the lands of the pony world.

I mean, both the series and comics could have further fleshed out the oceans of the world created for G4. Added new islands, diversified the ocean floor with different regions and terrain. Have things like underwater ruins or even shipwrecks. I know sequestria exists but they could have also added kingdoms and other powers int he sea. both on the surface and below it.

They could have written in the existence a pirate nation state similar to how pirates in real life formed a lose pirate republic in nassau or similar to the legendary pirate utopia of Libertalia, which is was allegedly located in Madagascar.

as for mythical creatures, would have been cool if Umibozu existed in the pony world. Japanese folklore could have been another outlet for importing mythical creatures into the pony world:

shigeru-mizuki-umibozu-1985.jpg

They could have even inserted influences from ocean mythologies of other cultures across the world. things like sea monsters and underwater locations from other cultures too.

They could even include ghost ships and even a villain who captains a ghost ship.

i mean there are examples of fully fleshed out marine fantasy settings they could have looked into for inspiration: Pirates of the Caribbean movies, One Piece, Wind Waker/Phantom hourglass, and a more recent video game example, Sea of Thieves.

Edited by Newman1651
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There was still plenty of room for Equestria to expand, but to be fair, the show is a personal-growth fable and ponyville-centric, and rarely travels far from that base. A show where the characters are exploring the outside world more would have a very different feel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, CypherHoof said:

There was still plenty of room for Equestria to expand, but to be fair, the show is a personal-growth fable and ponyville-centric, and rarely travels far from that base. A show where the characters are exploring the outside world more would have a very different feel.

it's that kind of stuff that is usually left to the fans, even after this generation ends. there is still plenty of room for fans to fill in the gaps

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They aren't fleshed out as much, and I think that makes perfect sense. Being underwater greatly limits what societies are capable of because of what they can physically do and also the resources available. The oceans are teeming with life but the vast majority of that life hugs the coasts because that's where there's more access to things, most importantly sunlight because you don't have to go very far out till everything plunges down into darkness, and there's life there, nowhere near as much until you hit pockets of volcanic vents. Something that's often forgotten is that the seas are a form of dessert, so we're limited in that aspect.

There's still a lot that can be done, as you said we have plenty of folklore, but I'm not so sure we should dive to deep into that. Some of it is most certainly welcome, but there's already a lot going on that still needs to be fleshed out, so adding more will only raise more questions and serve as a distraction for those preexisting. Sometimes a little empty space can go a long way and serve as a nice contrast to what's already been established.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, SharpWit said:

The oceans are teeming with life but the vast majority of that life hugs the coasts because that's where there's more access to things, most importantly sunlight because you don't have to go very far out till everything plunges down into darkness, and there's life there, nowhere near as much until you hit pockets of volcanic vents. Something that's often forgotten is that the seas are a form of dessert, so we're limited in that aspect.

Case in point. Everything in this paragraph is wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, SharpWit said:

How so?

A lion's share of ocean's biomass is located in the mesopelagic zone, the abyssal plain has herds of bottom feeders, there is actually a thing called a deep sea reef (it's a seamount coral/sponge garden though), then there are cold seeps, whale corpses, etc. etc. In other words: deep sea is a very wondrous and busy place that is the true face of our oceans. The comparatively small zone above twilight is just a chlorophyll farm.

 

You can't expect some small fry writers to learn about mythology and deep sea and then combine them into something awesome. They want to get their paycheck and a polished resume so that they can go work for Disney and excrete another lol-so-random calarts abomination into existence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

You can't expect some small fry writers to learn about mythology and deep sea and then combine them into something awesome. They want to get their paycheck and a polished resume so that they can go work for Disney and excrete another lol-so-random calarts abomination into existence.

They wouldn't even necessarily have to. I suspect there's other reasons that the oceans went unexplored for so long. Cartoons usually jump at the chance to visit new and mysterious locations, so much so that they're often used as crutches. Space is another big one but that can more easily be chalked up to Ponies simply not having gotten that far in technological advancement yet. Seaponies were a thing from almost the very start of G1, so it's actually stranger that nothing got done with them at all until the movie. Heck, even the surface of the ocean is almost never touched on. Ocean voyages, especially the further back you go, were amazing adventures wrought with danger and unexpected surprises, but this is another thing we never got to see.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, BornAgainBrony said:

They wouldn't even necessarily have to. I suspect there's other reasons that the oceans went unexplored for so long. Cartoons usually jump at the chance to visit new and mysterious locations, so much so that they're often used as crutches. Space is another big one but that can more easily be chalked up to Ponies simply not having gotten that far in technological advancement yet. Seaponies were a thing from almost the very start of G1, so it's actually stranger that nothing got done with them at all until the movie. Heck, even the surface of the ocean is almost never touched on. Ocean voyages, especially the further back you go, were amazing adventures wrought with danger and unexpected surprises, but this is another thing we never got to see.

The reason why that was hip back then is cause age of exploration. Now we have the deep sea: the last frontier on Earth. You can have all the pirates you want, but all the most exciting stuff waits down there, especially in a world with sentient creatures. Get with the times.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Goat-kun said:

The reason why that was hip back then is cause age of exploration. Now we have the deep sea: the last frontier on Earth. You can have all the pirates you want, but all the most exciting stuff waits down there, especially in a world with sentient creatures. Get with the times.

You're thinking in terms of carbon-copying reality at our point in history, which simply doesn't work. A little creativity would go a long way with showing off something more interesting than pirates on the high seas, and there's quite a few mythology stories about that just as there are about aquatic humanoids and monsters. Heck, just ripoff something like the Bermuda Triangle.

They could've done it easily enough. Animators should even be happy with it because a fish is less trouble to move around even than something with two legs. I've got nothing wrong with doing "The Abyss." I'd be excited for it. In general though, truly exotic places never showed up much in FiM, even though they would have been easy enough to world-build. Unique cultures yes, but new biomes and such, not really. Closest thing is probably the Changeling Hive. Everfree was like that early in its day before it became timid and all the wacky plants and monsters seemingly went away.

About them not being insufficiently-equipped to world-build below 200m, I'm not sure what you mean. If you're talking about trying to use some solid science in the creation of an alien undersea world? Yeah that'd be a tremendous undertaking. But comeon, this is MLP, a world full of magic and the only limit is imagination. If they want to have the bioluminescent forest of Pandora on the sea floor, why the heck not?

It wouldn't even take a ton of research. Just an hour or two of TV show documentaries on the deep ocean life would provide more than enough inspiring content. And if that's too much of a waste of time to put "inspired by real science" stuff into an episode? Jules Verne didn't seem to have much trouble world-building locations we knew absolutely squat about at the time.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, BornAgainBrony said:

You're thinking in terms of carbon-copying reality at our point in history, which simply doesn't work. A little creativity would go a long way with showing off something more interesting than pirates on the high seas, and there's quite a few mythology stories about that just as there are about aquatic humanoids and monsters. Heck, just ripoff something like the Bermuda Triangle.

They could've done it easily enough. Animators should even be happy with it because a fish is less trouble to move around even than something with two legs. I've got nothing wrong with doing "The Abyss." I'd be excited for it. In general though, truly exotic places never showed up much in FiM, even though they would have been easy enough to world-build. Unique cultures yes, but new biomes and such, not really. Closest thing is probably the Changeling Hive. Everfree was like that early in its day before it became timid and all the wacky plants and monsters seemingly went away.

About them not being insufficiently-equipped to world-build below 200m, I'm not sure what you mean. If you're talking about trying to use some solid science in the creation of an alien undersea world? Yeah that'd be a tremendous undertaking. But comeon, this is MLP, a world full of magic and the only limit is imagination. If they want to have the bioluminescent forest of Pandora on the sea floor, why the heck not?

It wouldn't even take a ton of research. Just an hour or two of TV show documentaries on the deep ocean life would provide more than enough inspiring content. And if that's too much of a waste of time to put "inspired by real science" stuff into an episode? Jules Verne didn't seem to have much trouble world-building locations we knew absolutely squat about at the time.

 

If our glorious writers were like Jules Verne we wouldn't be having this conversation. Now that this is out of the way ... Ufff, I'd like to see you complain about FIM and the modern inventions. However, in your desperate attempt to fight me, you've completely missed the point. It is not about copying something but about using new stuff that hasn't been around for hundreds of years. We're not seeing many westerns these days and we've gone from Flash Gordon with war rockets to Expanse with corvette gunships. Look at Subnautica. Deep sea is an interesting, unexplored frontier that is offering to the modern crowd what jungles and prairies offered to the old generations. This has nothing to do with concrete science. It's all about inspiring people.

 

Now, the debate about how shit FIM is when it comes to worldbuilding is an old one. They could. They didn't, and that's what counts.

 

Bioluminescent forest in deep sea. Go. Describe one for me. I'll give you an hour or two. And do make it interesting and aesthetically pleasing. It's not that hard, I agree. After all, even Markiplier crowd should remember what a brine pool is. However, one still needs to possess a certain level of motivation. By that I am asserting that H-Bro and our glorious writers possess none.

 

What you are saying about experience is true to a degree. You can make everything up. Lovecraft did it too and I'm a fan. However, imitating nature, at least to a point, offers you the best chance of success. The trick is to know what to imitate and how so that it fits into a fantastical world while ensuring the viewers that it is still making sense. Also, nature tends to do crazier stuff than any small fry writer could ever imagine. That's why you should do your research. It will make you better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

However, in your desperate attempt to fight me, you've completely missed the point.

Now, the debate about how shit FIM is when it comes to worldbuilding is an old one. They could. They didn't, and that's what counts.

Bioluminescent forest in deep sea. Go. Describe one for me. I'll give you an hour or two. And do make it interesting and aesthetically pleasing. It's not that hard, I agree. After all, even Markiplier crowd should remember what a brine pool is. However, one still needs to possess a certain level of motivation. By that I am asserting that H-Bro and our glorious writers possess none.

What you are saying about experience is true to a degree. You can make everything up. Lovecraft did it too and I'm a fan. However, imitating nature, at least to a point, offers you the best chance of success. The trick is to know what to imitate and how so that it fits into a fantastical world while ensuring the viewers that it is still making sense. Also, nature tends to do crazier stuff than any small fry writer could ever imagine. That's why you should do your research. It will make you better.

The first statement and the second one are contradicting. The original point I questioned wasn't that they didn't, but WHY they didn't. You use phrases like "small fry writers" to justify them being too daft to conjure up an alien landscape. Even though we've now established that it really isn't that hard, at least not if you're just doing something that's entertaining for toddlers. Heck, you could even outsource with an art contest or something and let some kids come up with the lifeforms. Streamline the results and you've at least got something interesting. Getting it all to work together, yeah that takes more effort. Now since I'm not professionally working for any Hollywood studios, I can honestly say that there are plenty of writers who know a lot more than I do. But one thing I've never struggled with is world-building, and even back when I was in highschool I was doing what is playfully sometimes referred to as "xeno-paleontology," creating a foreign environment and then as a thought experiment, letting the life evolve from basic microbes and all the way up to apex predators and (if desired) one or more types of sentient life. I used to do that stuff in a single afternoon and came up with some really nice looking landscapes.

P.S. Yes, Subnautica is an awesome game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

The first statement and the second one are contradicting. The original point I questioned wasn't that they didn't, but WHY they didn't. You use phrases like "small fry writers" to justify them being too daft to conjure up an alien landscape. Even though we've now established that it really isn't that hard, at least not if you're just doing something that's entertaining for toddlers. Heck, you could even outsource with an art contest or something and let some kids come up with the lifeforms. Streamline the results and you've at least got something interesting. Getting it all to work together, yeah that takes more effort. Now since I'm not professionally working for any Hollywood studios, I can honestly say that there are plenty of writers who know a lot more than I do. But one thing I've never struggled with is world-building, and even back when I was in highschool I was doing what is playfully sometimes referred to as "xeno-paleontology," creating a foreign environment and then as a thought experiment, letting the life evolve from basic microbes and all the way up to apex predators and (if desired) one or more types of sentient life. I used to do that stuff in a single afternoon and came up with some really nice looking landscapes.

P.S. Yes, Subnautica is an awesome game.

So you are something of a scientist yourself, huh. Our glorious writers do not possess your talents or motivation. You can see that in their application of mythology. It is just there, like everything else. Sometimes they even try to do something for the rule of cool. Or maybe that's just me. Anyhow, so are you going to whip out even more hidden talents or are you going to actually start advocating for these lot? You would outsource their worldbuilding after all. Well, at least we'd get brine pools :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 6 months later...

I think we got a pretty good idea about how much more there are outside of Equestria, but still in the same world, by watching the Movie and S08E06.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Join the herd!

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...