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Pony Theory: Why is Celestia so weak?


Pim

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Hi everyone ! SOOoooo...

This reflexion started upon watching Silver-Quill's work. Accross multiple videos, such as this one :

He paints a picture of Celestia that I will abbreviate here.

Long ago, Celestia and Luna were on a roll ! Tirek, Discord,... You name it, they kicked it ! But then, Luna, her most trusted sister, turned evil, became a THREAT to Equestria and had to be dealt with... More than her sadness, this CRUSHED Celestia's hopes : if her very own sister could fall, so could she ! She, ALONE, could be defeated, overpowered or trapped with no one to back her up ! She could suffer the same fate as Luna, be corrupted, loose her way and become her own worst enemy ! She HAD to make backup plans.

And she did : she formed the EPU to protect Equestria if (or when) she were to fail ! She created the School of Magic to assemble, teach and train the most powerful and gifted unicorns of the land ! And futher more, she turned Equestria as a whole into a safe environment, where anypony could grow and muster their personal skills ! Allowing that, if SHE couldn't get the job done, somepony, ANYPONY would have the right skillset to save the day in her stead !

 

Now, allow me to produce my evidences to this theory : calling forth MLP the Movie !

Equestria is under Storm King's occupation, everything is grimm. After Twilight's capture, the 4 princesses are gathered in the throne room, their magics absorbed into the staff. A bunch of stuff happens until said magic is returned to the princesses, where Celestia produces a massive 'fix everything' spell, Restoring magic accross the land and bringing back colours into the realm.

Hold on a minute ! CELESTIA's magic restores magic ACCROSS THE LAND ?! We know that ONLY the princesses' magic was taken into the staff, yet, magic is restored EVERYWHERE ?! And that is my theory : when SQ stated that Celestia made Equestria into a safe environment, I don't think he meant she literaly MADE the land safer  and easier to live in... I do !  ;7

And that is why, in my opinion, Celestia appears so weak every time she's supposed to rise to the occasion : at any given time, she only keeps a fraction of her powers available to herself (say, enough to raise the sun, which is already quite the amount). The rest of it is spread thin accross Equestria to make it more suitable for ponies ! Whenever she feels a big battle coming, she might summon it back (like when she and Luna fought off the storm over the crystal Empire), but when taken by surprise (Canterlot Wedding) she can only make do with her daily dose of magic, a fraction of her REAL power.

And one futher point to that theory : she let Luna in on the secret.You see, why would luna be frustrated that she cannot interact with her subjects to the point of turning into Nightmare Moon, if she already had access to the dream realm at the time ? And where DID the dream realm come from ? well, it COULD be Luna spreading her magic just like her sister, but finding another application for it. Providing help and guidance to her subjects in a way Celestia cannot, and in a much more intimate and precise way than overt rulership (also short-circuiting the frustration that led to NM).

 

That's a theory, fell free to agree or argue ! Have a nice day !    ;7

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Nice theory. I actually think Celestia is getting weaker due to age which is why Luna and Celestia want to pass their duties to Twilight. I think Alicorns age and maybe even die but don't show age physically because their alicorn magic gives a youthful complexion. Just my personal theory. 

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10 hours ago, Pim said:

Equestria is under Storm King's occupation, everything is grimm. After Twilight's capture, the 4 princesses are gathered in the throne room, their magics absorbed into the staff. A bunch of stuff happens until said magic is returned to the princesses, where Celestia produces a massive 'fix everything' spell, Restoring magic accross the land and bringing back colours into the realm.

There seems to be more going on with the staff. You see it when he's taking the power from the Alicorns, there follows this wide shot where a strange light is moving across the town, all converging on the palace. So somehow he's taking more than just Alicorn magic?

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That's an interesting theory... I was always of the opinion that she's always holding back. Daybreaker mention that Celestia never needed anyone help to do anything and she always holds back. Going with the seemingly "everything is a test" thing she likes to do... I think it holds some weight. I think it's asinine that there weren't any threats in a thousand years as well. 

Either way... i think Celestia chooses to be weaker than she actually is.

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Something else to keep in mind... the backstory to when Celestia took over the sun. That work was permanently draining unicorns of their magic. Now she handled it on her own, but then there was a time where she was doing double-duty, for a thousand years. Maybe that took its toll on her.

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Because Celestia deserved a better cartoon where everything didn't exist to one up her for the sake of bloated stakes. Because as soon as the cartoon started, Twilight was supposed to replace her and it was easier to make her a pointless celebrity than build Twilight up to a legendary ruler.

Because everything about her is the writers trying to pick up the pieces of Season 1 Celestia and messing up over and over because they couldn't spent two second thinking about thinks like plants actually dying without the sun in the alternate timeline Starlight Glimmer created.

Because writing a decent ruler is hard with the cartoon's age rating, so instead they made an idiot goofball.

Because they needed the unicorns to have some relevance in Hearthwarming Eve and the cartoon never managed to tell the whole story in a way that made any sense.

Because the fandom worshiped Luna as the poor little rebel and made Celestia the evil older sister.

Because the producers never cared.

Because Celestia in the cartoon just doesn't deserve a theory about her.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Celestia was always considered more powerful than she actually is. The show is actually very consistent with the power levels.

I rewatched the movie's ending, and I don't see Celetia doing any kind of restoring spell- it's the Staff's power which is freed. Then again, nothing says that he only took the alicorns' magic - that would actually be pretty dumb, why not steal every bit of magic you can find on your way?

The one time Celestia actually seemed to do a lot of efforts was when she and Luna tried to hold back the storm during Flurry's first episode. And they failed soooooo badly. If she was as powerful as some make her out to be, then there is no reason for her to hold back at that moment.

The show never made her out to be all powerful - and even moving the Sun is more of a special magical property based spell than a proof of actual power. The fans made her out to be powerful- the show made her feared, but never all powerful.

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Princess Celestia, just like @Xeltor said (he forgot the title, that is a crime! You go to Tartarus for that!) has always been weak. She is wise, she can move the sun, but so can the artifact Twilight used as well.
Her royal highness has never been good in fights, as been seen in the season 2 finale. She cannot beat the storm in Flurry's first episode, and she cannot beat the everfree forest.

 

If she was all powerful, what would be her point of the story? I know of two all powerful characters, Whis (Dragon Ball Super) and Saitama (One Punch Man), and both characters are heavily written around comedy. I could only see Princess Celestia being a complete bitch for comedy in such a situation, which wouldn't work well with the intended audience of mlp (I am not the intended audience, I want her to be a bitch, kinda like how Twilight treats Spike but slightly worse).

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22 hours ago, Splashee said:

Princess Celestia, just like @Xeltor said (he forgot the title, that is a crime! You go to Tartarus for that!) has always been weak. She is wise, she can move the sun, but so can the artifact Twilight used as well.
Her royal highness has never been good in fights, as been seen in the season 2 finale. She cannot beat the storm in Flurry's first episode, and she cannot beat the everfree forest.

 

If she was all powerful, what would be her point of the story? I know of two all powerful characters, Whis (Dragon Ball Super) and Saitama (One Punch Man), and both characters are heavily written around comedy. I could only see Princess Celestia being a complete bitch for comedy in such a situation, which wouldn't work well with the intended audience of mlp (I am not the intended audience, I want her to be a bitch, kinda like how Twilight treats Spike but slightly worse).

What did I forget again?

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1 hour ago, Xeltor said:

What did I forget again?

To call Princes Celestia "Princess".

 

It is illegal to call the princesses without their princesses title except if you are a princess yourself. I am pretty sure @Xeltor is not a princess (yet).

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Celestia is not weak! Have you not noticed everything she has been through?

Having to banish her own sister to the moon and having to live with that horrible decision, having to rule all of Equestria BY HERSELF and raise the sun and moon for 1000 years! 1000 years of loneliness and suffering. If there was ever a weak spot in her life, this was it!

I'd say she's stronger than she's ever been now that Luna has returned! Because now, she can depend on her sister, Twilight and all of her friends to help her in the toughest of situations! Celestia isn't alone anymore and she can share her strength with others!

Don't call Celestia weak, because she has an amazing sister and so many others to help her and they are stronger together!

IMG_1185.thumb.PNG.97536555aead3279dee1a7db5f1a20eb.PNG

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Celestia and Luna's ascension to power in the show mostly seems to be predicated on their ability to move the sun and moon with ease. In "Horse Play" it's established that the unicorns could move the sun but with extreme difficulty that sapped them so completely that they had to keep bringing in new mages to take on the task - having that burden passed on to Celestia and Luna who could do it so effortlessly seems like a natural choice. That along with their status as alicorns, who are implied to be quasi-immortal given they've lived 1000+ years without aging, made them a natural choice to be Equestria's rulers. 

Part of the perception of Celestia as an all-powerful being comes down to how she is introduced in the first episode and how other ponies treat her. In the early seasons there isn't much to be said about Celestia, she's kindly and slightly mischievous but her motives constantly seem to be hidden in the shadows. It wasn't until the later seasons that we ended up seeing the more 'human' side of her which in part shatters the perception of her godlike divinity. Still, there is no mistaking the fact that her alicorn blood makes her far more powerful than just about most ponies who have ever lived. The issue for the writers is how to then give the main cast stakes if Celestia could swoop in and solve all the problems immediately? Obviously there are solutions to prevent her from becoming the literal 'god from the machine', but they opted for the route of disempowering her time and again because it shows how powerful in turn their villain of the season is. It's cheap, bad, and ultimately devalues her character but I believe that is the main reason she's presented as weak - because the plot requires her to be. 

There also is the possibility that she imposes a limit upon herself to test how Twilight and her friends will rise to the challenge and save the day, ultimately grooming Twilight for leadership by season nine, but whether or not that's part of Celestia's long game is unclear as she never explicitly states as much. 

I however do not prescribe to the idea that Celestia is growing weaker with age as her retirement to travel Equestria might suggest, I think it has to do more with her weariness of being the leader for over a thousand years. Anyone would want a break after that, thus she leaves Twilight in charge of the country in their stead - with ample possibility that she might return some day if she happens to be needed! 

If anything Celestia might be weaker by having her magic permeate across Equestria over that 1,000 years, I think that is the most plausible theory I can come up with, but in the show itself I think she keeps getting taken out of action is because the writers need her to be for the mane six to do the hero work. That's it, I'm done rambling now :nom: 

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On 10/7/2019 at 1:12 AM, Splashee said:

To call Princes Celestia "Princess".

 

It is illegal to call the princesses without their princesses title except if you are a princess yourself. I am pretty sure @Xeltor is not a princess (yet).

Well technically I'm a god, so :confused: 

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  • 1 month later...
  • 4 months later...

Well, she is not a mane character. It turns out you have to be a mane character to make a difference in FIM. Which is probably the only flaw in FIM. It would have been more world building and character growth if FIM was more like an Anime where any character could make a difference.

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3 hours ago, Kujamih said:

She is weak

for it is a trick

 For her student to think

You mean, she is doing it on purpose? :confused:

 

You know, being all powerful, and get yourself into trouble to teach weaker how to protect themselves is bad practice. Something Discord did in S09E24 & S09E25. It usually backfires.

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I like the theory. It also explains why with the exception of tirek no evil force or weather has entered equestria under her reign (discord is not and has never been evil) (Sombra never actually got a foothold) looking at the uncontained weather up in the crystal empire and the fact she has weather on demand from cloudsdale I bet her magic is also keeping it at bay. Look how much it exhausted Cadance without the aid of the crystal heart. 

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22 hours ago, Super Splashee said:

Well, she is not a mane character. It turns out you have to be a mane character to make a difference in FIM. Which is probably the only flaw in FIM. It would have been more world building and character growth if FIM was more like an Anime where any character could make a difference.

Pretty much a problem with the Royal Sisters, since they can no longer use the Elements. That's it, they're screwed big time. They get NOTHING
Losing the ability to use the Elements means the plot will not allow the sister fight alongside the girls and taking down the villain together.
No matter how powerful alicorns are supposed to be, they are either prevented from helping or get taken out. Which really downplays their power due to it happens quite too many times.
 

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1 hour ago, nightshroud96 said:

since they can no longer use the Elements

They are still supposed to be very strong, just being able to move the sun and the moon, which Twilight had problems with multiple times. Twilight showed Princess Luna the value of friendship in Season 2, and with friendship alone, they should be able to beat anything, without the Elements.

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