Lord Valtasar

S09:E21 Daring Doubt (beware, spoilers inside)

Daring Doubt  

67 members have voted

  1. 1. Rank the episode

    • Daring do Kicks puppies?! (i hated it)
      3
    • she had her own ideas of where the treasures belonged (i didn't like it)
      5
    • keep trying, i believe in you (it was alright)
      15
    • have you ever thought of being an adventurer? (i liked it)
      22
    • stories just seemed too good to keep to myself (i loved it)
      22


Recommended Posts

The main problem with the episode is that the reformations are too far fetched, they had to pull on the strings they could and it still probably had some continuity errors. FS was a little too naive to my test. Also, fluttershy is now reading daring do books as well.

Still it was an entertaining episode, we learned more about some characters and the comedy was great, this moment was my favorite: https://derpibooru.org/2118899?q=daring+doubt 

It feels like they are trying to reform as many antagonists as possible. 7\10

 

Edited by Rushing cash

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So...they reformed a villain who tried to usher in 800 years of scorching heat

but nah, he's a "guardian" apparently. 

Did he read the Bohrok Handbook or something? Destroy everything so it can begin anew and make way for greater things?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Badges

It wasn't a perfect episode by any stretch, I'll admit. The reformations were arbitrary, and it wouldn't be as obvious if the episode gave more time to show that Dr Cabelleron and Ahuizotl have told FS, Dash and Daring why they do the things they did earlier, without having to prove it through the talisman. 

But. But but. Despite that, I personally really liked this episode. Daring Do episodes never ever fail to capture the feeling of adventure, and it shows here just as well. I enjoyed Dash as well, her anger towards Cabelleron framing Daring and him taking a naive Fluttershy with him was justified. Oh, and the locations look gorgeous. Cabelleron and Ahuizotl's reformations may not be super polished, but you could've gone a whole lot worse than a treasure that forces anyone to tell the truth. The pacing might've hurt the reformation, but it is imo one of the better ones of the show.

P.s., I loved Fluttershy's comment on artistic choice, that gave me a good laugh. Her newfound love for the Daring Do books is really adorable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the most equalized poll I have ever seen. The hate/dislike percent is the same and other other three options match each other. :sunbutt:

I’m one of the people who loved this episode! It had quite a few interesting points and while the truth thing was a bit of an easy plot device, I’m glad the audience really did get to see all sides of the story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just saw “Daring Doubt”. I really like this one. I’m glad the writers took the time to give us one more Daring Do episode that explains who the other Daring Do enemies are and what they want. I’m also so glad Dr Cavalarion(I know I’m not spelling it correctly) was not made out to be perfectly innocent and was more realistically depicted as starting out with more innocent intentions for a career and then being pushed by life circumstances to be mean and steal for money. I’m so glad the writers did not take the easier way out with Calverarion in terms of his lying at least i.e he still lies and tricks so he needs an artifact to be honest i.e he still has bad tendencies like Flim and Flam. Rainbow Dash’s stubbornness works so much better here than in the cheerleading episode because we know why Rainbow Dash feels the way she does after the Somnumbula town experience of being lied to and left in a trap by Cavalarion. Fluttershy was somewhat naive but still shown to be brave and very capable here which speaks well of her growth as a character. I like how Daring Do’s enemies let their walls down in similar way to how Daring Do did when Rainbow Dash offered her friendship. I love the ending where all the characters write books! Too funny! This is just a minor personal beef rant here: but I wish every single person who complained about “bad media representation” of minorities like disabled people for example, would just do what the characters did at the end of the episode with their books. Not that it’s easy, but waiting for other people to write what you want, will get you no where fast!!! Sorry for the somewhat off topic rant there! Going back to the episode itself the only thing I didn’t like was I felt Owiezoltol’s (I know I’m not spelling it correctly)  explanation created quite a few plot holes but I guess you could think of it as him getting so annoyed at Daring Do that he would doom an area to “1000 years of unrelenting heat” just to make Daring Do and others feel as bad as he did. There’s also the plot hole of previous episodes having Daring Do say she does put artifacts in Museums so why does she distrust Calvalorion in the flashback? Doesn’t fully make sense.

Edited by StitchandMLPlover

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Badges

If I ever enjoyed any of the previous Daring Do adventure episodes (except for Read it and Weep), I might have disliked this episode. But I didn't find any legit values from those episodes, even for mindless entertaining adventure tropes, simply because they were just boring. At least this episode has something, and it might be worth the show reversing itself with such afterthoughts.

Even the lesson of this episode has it's place somewhere, I've seen too much clichés to truly accept something like 'even a villain like this has it's own side of the story' or 'he is not a bad guy, he was just being misunderstood'. They were villain archetypes. We didn't know the exact motivations of them from previous episodes because it was not important at the moment. What important was that they were real bad guys, and they had to be actual bad guys for the legitimacy of the adventures and the entertainment. Daring Do should have known about the details of Caballeron and Ahuizotl's villainy. We were on Daring Do's side assuming her legitimacy until now. Daring Do was wrong and stupid, and unfairly so were we the whole time.

Fluttershy's choice to listen to bad guys are only acceptable where the minimal securities are guaranteed. An adventure where life and death situations are one step ahead? No. They could have lost everything. Thank god for the artifact having an ability to make people tell the truth, it was pure luck. Fluttershy's actions could be seen as a noble thing, but it was also very foolish. Let's learn the show's lesson with a grain of salt. (the fact that they need a magical artifact forcing them to tell the truth and they need to touch it every time they speak to each other proves my point)

But even this episode devalues previous episodes, like I said, I didn't like those previous Daring Do episodes. So I'm ok with this this time. But it doesn't mean that it is completely ok, because of it has it's inherit drawbacks of reversing itself and devaluing the legitimacy of the series as a whole. So did I like this episode? I'll say yes.

ps. They should have made the previous Daring Do adventure episodes truly entertaining like A Dog and Pony Show or Power Ponies.

Edited by Sepul-Coloratura

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Sepul-Coloratura said:

 'he is not a bad guy, he was just being misunderstood'.

I guess that makes Ahuizotl MLP's version of Bushroot from Darkwing Duck. :mlp_smug:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Badges

I enjoyed this episode. It was fun. I especially liked how they made the truth amulet a part of the story. There was some fun dialogue (especially Rainbow's "Spa Deluxe Package") and I really liked how Daring Do and Caballaron used the amulet to make their promise to Ahuizotl.

Two villains changing in one episode was a bit much (especially Ahuizotl) but the idea behind it was good.

Edited by JH24

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Badges

27 minutes ago, JH24 said:

I enjoyed this episode. It was fun. I especially liked how they made the truth amulet a part of the story. There was some fun dialogue (especially Rainbow's "Spa Deluxe Package") and I really liked how Daring Do and Caballaron used the amulet to make their promise to Ahuizotl.

Honestly, I kinda wish I had A Truth Amulet now so I can be honest with myself about what I should be doing with my life. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually enjoyed this a LOT more than I thought I would. It's put a nice bookend to this Daring Do sidestory, and we get nice conclusions to some characters plots. A very nice touch; especially Caballeron!

Tho...something does bother me. If Ahuizotl was indeed a guardian of that region, then what about his deed in the episode with those rings? Wasn't his action there quite villainous, or am I missing something there?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, PathfinderCS said:

 

Tho...something does bother me. If Ahuizotl was indeed a guardian of that region, then what about his deed in the episode with those rings? Wasn't his action there quite villainous, or am I missing something there?

Ahuizotl being written back then to want to let the region suffer many years of unrelenting heat is one big retcon that can't easily be handwaved.

I suppose that's one reason I waited for the show to end before I fully commit to writing a series of fan fiction stories that happened alongside the main show

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fluttershy proves that she is the best at reforming villains. Now I want to see her having a tea party with Discord, Dr. Caballeron and Ahuizotl. 

It was an interesting episode with one of my favorite duos, and it was a moderately satisfying end to the Daring Do arc. However, I feel that Ahuizotl could have been explored a bit more, as well as other guardian creatures and the things they guard. I think I have to look at comics for that.

Also, is Daring Do’s career now ruined or what? I guess that’s what you get for kicking puppies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ahuizotl makes his first appearance in over five years. At least the writers remembered that he exists and finally gave him the character development he needed. Granted, that artefact ended up being a deus ex machina aka the magical macguffin on account that it was used to solve the overall conflict. Still, now we know why Ahuizotl was always acting like a monster. Archaeologists do good things to further advance our understanding of history, but they do inadvertently desecrate historical sites much like how grave robbers, tomb raiders, and the like did something similar back in the day.

I will admit that I laughed out loud at the conclusion. I never expected anything like that to happen. I won't go into those details as it's something you need to see for yourself. Since this is the final Daring Do adventure, how does it stack with the previous ones? On the one hand, we got to see some reformation from Ahuizotl and Dr. Caballeron--it was blatantly obvious that he was in disguise during the first act--in addition to receiving humility from both the latter and from Daring Do herself. Again, that artefact pretty much solved everything within 22 minutes leaving us with what we got. On the other hand, some will say that the reformations weren't executed rather well, and that does have some merit to it. 22 minutes isn't as long as you might think so some things had to be excluded in order to fit in what they wanted.

Fluttershy turned out to be the big hero here in that her innocence combined with her kindness had quite the effect on everyone. If she was taken out of the episode, it would've been a completely different episode with its own sets of problems and resolutions. Talking things out usually prevents conflicts from happening though not everyone is willing to listen on account that they believe themselves to be right. Just taking time to hear the other side can make you see things you never considered before. I can't say much about Rainbow Dash and Daring Do since both of them were pretty keen on assuming that Caballeron and company were villainous--they were until Fluttershy's kindness got them to rethink things--aside from the latter now understanding that her 'goal' wasn't as pure as she thought.

Did I enjoy this episode? Most of the time I did though some of Rainbow Dash's moments weren't particularly strong and the initial setup with competing authors didn't really go anywhere. Daring Do and the characters of her world--more like her experiences--has reached its final conclusion though not everyone will enjoy it. You can't please everyone no matter how hard you try but this is to be expected.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, The Nth Doctor said:

So...they reformed a villain who tried to usher in 800 years of scorching heat

If you think about what happened in recent Equestria history, it could make sense. Maybe some overcompensation, but understandable if you add a good dose of trauma to it.

Just ask yourself, what comes with Windigoes?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The final Daring Do episode is more about Fluttershy than Rainbow Dash, oddly. Even more oddly, despite the entire Daring Do arc being focused on Rainbow Dash, Fluttershy was written better than Rainbow Dash here and had some of her best character highlights too. She hits the nail on the head perfectly in her attitude on actually talking to Daring Do's rivals. It doesn't matter whether or not they're telling the truth, everyone still deserves to be listened to. That has to be the perfect message that today's society needs right now. It is a little disappointing to not see many highlights from Rainbow Dash, but with loyalty being her main character trait, I understand how a conflict about her doubting Daring Do in favor of listening to a villain wouldn't work. Only thing I honestly found dumb was Daring Do's fans ditching her because of Caballeron's story exposing that Daring Do was a real pony. I'm well aware that people are fickle, but seriously? If I found out my favorite book author was actually Indiana Jones, I'd be all over them. :kirin:  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I watched this after China aired early. After rewatching it earlier this week, some preliminary thoughts.

Caballeron’s reformation was actually believable. What was once a scheme to manipulate FS slowly evolved thanks to Fluttershy’s unconditional kindness and listening abilities. You see him begin to appreciate her in many different ways, like sharing Fluttershy’s picnic, his twinkling eyes after she tamed the jungle cats, and saving Fluttershy when he didn’t have to. The henchmen also reformed thanks to her, and Dubuc spent some time by getting her to communicate with them individually. When one got hungry, she shared. When another felt down and disrespected, she reassured him. When the third unknowingly found himself under a flyder hive, she helped him escape.

Dash’s side was written in the wrong, but not strawmanned. She had valid points, and the episode doesn’t force her to take FS’s side. Even though the focus was mostly on FS, the episode spends time getting us to see why Dash is so suspicious.

There are also little bits that show that Daring isn’t as unculpable as the books state, such as the mislabeling of flora, changing the adventures to make it accessible to children, and omitting that Daring accidentally kicked a puppy (which Daring as AK admitted to a young fan who initially left the autograph signing that morning). Throughout the years, fans were led to believe that Ll of these adventures were fiction in order to be palatable to both adults and children alike. However, now they realize that’s not the case, and each book is edited to fit her stories. The initial ex-fans were justified to be upset, because thanks to QQ Martingale’s response book, they felt lied to. However, not every fan was willing to give up on her, hence that young filly returning and still idolizing her.

Ahuizotl was justifiably upset. The Truth Talisman of Tonatiuh was safe and secure within that ancient ruin, and he was responsible for protecting the Basin from intruders. Once again, folks were after this treasure. Why did he threaten to unleash that massive heatwave back in Daring Don’t? To protect them. A heatwave this badly keeps the treasures safe and secure, as drastic as the measures were.

That said, Ahuizotl’s reformation overlooks a critical piece of information. According to Daring Do, Ahuizotl left Tenochtitlan Basin to go to Somnambula, apparently to separate the Sister Crown Relics that would cast eternal night and cause the town to slowly sink. Apparently, that wasn’t the case, but Ahuizotl says he’s in charge of protecting the jungle and the artifacts within them. Lose any more, and he will be demoted.

There isn’t anything to suggest why he would be in charge of protecting ancient artifacts from outside Tenochtitlan Basin or why he wanted to go to Somnambula in the first place. There is suggestion within Doubt’s climax that he’s part of a consult of guardians, so there may be one for the Sister Crown Relics and other pricessless gems within Somnambula, but there isn’t enough clarity. And the episode itself mentions Caballeron’s deeds in Somnambula, so there are continuity buffers and concerns here. Dark Cyan from the EQD Discord suggests that the Sphinx is one of those guardians, and Caballeron has ventured in Somnambula before this, so it’s possible, but it needs more clarity to avoid these plot holes and/or having to rely on smaller details from episodes back to fully get the picture.

There is also Fluttershy becoming shocked when Caballeron revealed via the Talisman to lying to her. Her lack of awareness of his actions continues to make her naive in the face of antagonists. Granted, her naivety here has more weight than buying that flimsy gift from Best Gift Ever, but it remains a detriment to the story.

Also, this episode has plenty of exposition, more so than maybe other episodes in the Daring arc, and it was needed to move the action forward. That said, it could’ve been less reliant on them.

Combined with Caballeron at by far his most competent, Dash catching his Martingale disguise so easily, and plenty of good humor, it’s a good episode and best of the Daring Do arc.

  • Brohoof 1
  • teacup 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought "Daring Doubt" was alright but I would've liked it a lot more if Twilight Sparkle had tagged along. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Worst daring do episode imo, writers are really trying to push a belief that. "If you talk to someone, everything will be a okay. Everyone is friends at the end of the day. HAPPY HAPPY! RAINBOWS!" delusional belief. Season 9 has been one huge wreck of a season right now and if the finale ends like how this episode ended I predict there's probably gonna be alot of hate directed towards the writers. It's heading down the GoT road...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And I quote the error of this episode:

 

Quote

S09E21 "Daring Doubt" timestamp 01:23: Rainbow Dash says "Daring Do isn't just a fictional character from over the top adventures stories. I've met her and she is a real live pony! That is supposed to be a secret!! Argh!!" and then throws the book in anger.

Quote

S07E17 "Fame and Misfortune" timestamp 04:01: Rainbow Dash reading from a soon to be public copy the Journal of Friendship book by Twilight Sparkle and her friends which shows a picture of Daring Do on the page in question, and says "Remember this one, from when I helped Daring Do... Never underestimate the power of friends who always got your back"

Yep, every citizen of Equestria got that book, and I am sure they could see that Daring Do was a real live pony if Rainbow Dash helped her, and wrote about it with pictures and everything.
Fail!

 

Otherwise, I really enjoyed Caballeron's animation and voice performance in this one. Fun to see the cats and Ahuizotl again! Except for being annoyed at Rainbow in the early part of the episode because of the error I stated above, I was really engaged into the adventure part of this episode, and I wasn't displeased. Fluttershy with two t's was adorable even if she was fooled so hard (she must never find the internet, she would be destroyed).

 

This episode is one of the highlights of the season. I remember season 7 had like many of these awesome episodes. I am hoping for more before the conclusion (remember don't spoil)!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Lucky Bolt said:

This was a cute episode. Big 9/10 from me. 

Daring Do had like, at least for a split second, bedroom eyes. I thought about @Lucky Bolt when I saw that!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Splashee said:

Daring Do had like, at least for a split second, bedroom eyes. I thought about @Lucky Bolt when I saw that!

You thought about me?! :laugh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Lucky Bolt said:

You thought about me?! :laugh:

Only because you have the ™ and ® for Pegasus bedroom eyes, yes.

 

I am a true supporter of the default eye lashes design, so I notice those things, that's why

  • Brohoof 1
  • Laugh 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just now, Splashee said:

Only because you have the ™ and ® for Pegasus bedroom eyes, yes.

Well you ain’t wrong about that 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Daring Done For Real

Maybe a bit mixed feelings of why like that and what some of it meant but here it is, Daring Done (for real). This was perhaps better to be called Daring Done than the Season 7's episode. Overall I loved it, just what I expected from Daring Do episode, an adventure and although I do not think too much about this part of the MLP stories, I did not expect and do not mind Caballeron's reformation. What confused a bit was that the Quetzalcoatl was a talking creature maybe I've forgotten and that it was from the episode with Somnanbula's blindfold episode? And that only raises the question why its reformation and why suddenly such a creature in town (wasn't Daring Do in Manehathan?)

Let's break it into parts to discuss also Fluttershy, as her fan ;)I can comment and defend perhaps some of what could come as wrong by her.

I do not remember when she became more interested in Daring Do's books than Rainbow Dash or was it in that particular book only. Rainbow acts like a big fanpony here ready to defend and deny any critic against Daring Do.  Next they go her book store (for some reason the whole Daring Do thing and the writer remind me of not just Indiana Jones (duh) but the book store in Marvel's spider-man with Stan. Or there are other examples where the writer is the character too. The part with angry fans has been seen (or not?) in Daring Done.

 

Spoiler

MLPFiM-Se9-ep217-DaringDoubt.thumb.jpg.8958b933515c45549522be49069c0b6f.jpg

 

I like these DD flashbacks even though it's through Caballeron's lies here. For a seconder I thought the finale of Daring Do was going to be that she is indeed the liar and Caballeron but why not? Lol what a plot twist, nah it makes no sense.

 

Spoiler

MLPFiM-Se9-ep217-DaringDoubt2.thumb.jpg.ac87f000c8e0814a7707324654d83a10.jpg

 

 

And to talk about Fltutershy's naivety. She is nice by nature and being more listening to others even to villains may look unnatural or OOC to some but imo despite her assertiveness in recent seasons, she is still susceptible to such. Was she befriending stallions she could not trust too soon? Did this make her too naive? For the episode to run it would feel rushed but I do not have critics about it. We see her next already on the adventure next seemingly without much hesitation whether to go (there was no umm Im not sure, with you.. ). Ok maybe this was too rushed but for 20 mins it would waste time for rest of the story if they showed slower why she would start trusting them to go on an adventure.

 

Spoiler

MLPFiM-Se9-ep217-DaringDoubt3.thumb.jpg.b02a83bf2e55604baf33d5de8c478f94.jpg

As expected, Fluttershy handles the animals ezpz before Caballeron looking in amazement as she later handles the swarm of insects guarding the entrance.

I still find Daring Do and Rainbow Dash cute when they fly like that so this pic is for a bye seeing you for last time like that :(

 

Spoiler

MLPFiM-Se9-ep217-DaringDoubt4.thumb.jpg.642f8cfb16b5999d0531827843d3ee13.jpg

 

This is the Equestrian Stonehenge? No probably one of the Aztec temples. Or a mix of both, at least inside it is the latter.

 

Spoiler

MLPFiM-Se9-ep217-DaringDoubt5.thumb.jpg.973b0583184e90df57a49405f5767179.jpg

 

Oh my gosh Fluttershy no!! And just when I think it is Daring Do's giving a hoof to Fluttershy it is Caballeron. If it wasn't for him she would be... :( How ? How he cared? He liked her?

 

Spoiler

MLPFiM-Se9-ep217-DaringDoubt6.thumb.jpg.8935062d60dad189938ba5b298a18855.jpg

 

Do you know what Discord would do to you Caballeron if he found out the danger Fluttershy's been exposed to? :angry:

The necklace starts having its effect but I think they should've chosen a color other than green, that suggests possession or evil, maybe yellow eyes?

 

Spoiler

MLPFiM-Se9-ep217-DaringDoubt7.thumb.jpg.ff4fea646c11a2150f2a89024970f41c.jpg

 

Then there's the Quetzalcoatl villain and the stone figures turned alive.  Gargoyles.Some nice action and cooperation between the former villain Caballeron and DD, here's the 2nd act of reformation after saving Fluttershy.

 

Spoiler

MLPFiM-Se9-ep217-DaringDoubt8.thumb.jpg.790a927d92f1826e853f5b8b28b3cce9.jpg

 

Then they work together and reformation 2 - the creature itself.

 

Spoiler

MLPFiM-Se9-ep217-DaringDoubt9.thumb.jpg.79132f0d8e9283288ca0f5a00a1a2837.jpg

 

 

 

Spoiler

MLPFiM-Se9-ep217-DaringDoubt10.thumb.jpg.d4cce52e6e606056334813e8cadbcd37.jpg

 

A small remark let the creature Quetzalcoatl remain a guarding, now a historian and what he is the new writer or? Even if Quetzalcoatl is really a guardian of artifacts that would take away from Daring Do's purpose and imo best was two of them DD and Caballeron to become writers as expected. I did not get that so it was a little strange to me but since I hold neutrality to this reformation or  whatever they want to do with the Quetz. I think it is a fine if not a little too much of reformation. Still good N Dubuc brought yet another story to an end and it is what one can expect, was a nice ep nontheless 5/5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Badges

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.