S09:E22 - Growing Up Is Hard to Do

[Latecomer 438]

3 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Agree to disagree. 

Sure - and besides that issue, it's a good if not amazing episode.

[Senko 459]

4 hours ago, Latecomer said:

Part of it may depend on how old you thought they were to begin with - I figured 10-12, which given the length of the show makes them at least very nearly adults. I never considered them anywhere near the target audience, except relative to the Manes.

And I cast off continuity when the Sisters said they were retiring, but it still annoys me.

Well given the flashback to Sweeties 5th birthday we know they're older than that. The problem as I see it is given we have events that give firm dates (first summer sun since we became friends, teacher of the month 16 times in a row, etc) we have a general idea years have passed and while I could see a case for them being pre-teen and now early teen the cutie marks and other episodes have all shown them being older and more responsible. They really should be close to mid-teen/late teen by now. Which isn't to say I didn't enjoy the episode just that it'd be better to have gone to the teenage models say at the start of season 8. While having this one start with "You're still too young to take this long a trip alone" rather than the seeming regression to being little kids.

5 hours ago, YoshiAngemon said:

I think for #6, Pinkie Pie would be busy with a baked goods delivery, and her responsibility with cakes is top priority, and Starlight and Trixie would've been busy with the School and her magic show respectively, and Discord would just want to see the chaos happen, rather than be responsible with three fillies.

Spike then? Really it's just that given this many adults they really should have been able to find someone. I do like Twilight's categorizing system for the library.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Senko

[RDDash 18,848]

I'll be a generous and give it a 3. There are some good stories with good morals, and there are some with really forced morals.

Why can't anyone just escort them to the fair? Anyone? Any-creature. I'll take a changeling pretending to be a guard dog as a CMC escort.

Edited September 30, 2019 by R.D.Dash

[BornAgainBrony 2,395]

7 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I'll admit, however, that Biscuit and Spur are around the age that I had assumed the CMC were at; I'd always thought they were entering adolescence.

Even then though, there was another angle they could have taken with this lesson. Even as grownups, Biscuit and Spur had more knowledge of certain things than they would have. There's almost a hidden second message here that age does not equate to superior knowledge (in the 'don't talk back to your elders' kind of way). Were any grownup from Ponyville trying to take this route, wisdom would suggest to let the two foals lead the way since they already know the paths. Similarly, Starswirl has a lot of years on Twilight, and also more magical knowledge, but when he can't figure out what the flower is, he doesn't let pride get the better of him and pretend he knows what he's doing. He gives it over to her to see what she can make of it.

[Thrond 3,257]

43 minutes ago, BornAgainBrony said:

Even then though, there was another angle they could have taken with this lesson. Even as grownups, Biscuit and Spur had more knowledge of certain things than they would have. There's almost a hidden second message here that age does not equate to superior knowledge (in the 'don't talk back to your elders' kind of way). Were any grownup from Ponyville trying to take this route, wisdom would suggest to let the two foals lead the way since they already know the paths. Similarly, Starswirl has a lot of years on Twilight, and also more magical knowledge, but when he can't figure out what the flower is, he doesn't let pride get the better of him and pretend he knows what he's doing. He gives it over to her to see what she can make of it.

That would enhance the idea that adulthood doesn't automatically grant expertise, but it might undermine the idea that being an adult is more than just physical appearance. If children can know more than adults, then why do the CMC need chaperones? There's an answer to that, but the episode might have gotten bogged down answering it. 

[lyrabop 0]

I'm not sure what it is about this season, but the writing has felt really off for me. There hasn't been a single episode that I absolutely love, which is odd as I can think of faves from every previous season quite easily. I had high hopes for this episode as it's the last crusader-centric episode we'll ever have. The song was nice, and Spur is very cute, but those are about the only good things I can say. 

The plot's been done to death in a million other cartoons and children's books. And the show keeps resorting to these scene-montages to advance the story. Cue the boring background music and 30 seconds of dialogue-less mishaps. I know that previous seasons did this as well, but it seems to happen almost every episode now and it feels lazy.

Oh and if Big Mac is so sick that he needs to be spoonfed his soup then he should probably be in a hospital, not at home. Applejack's excuse was just silly. I can probably speak for everyone who has a younger sibling when I say that the thought of being spoonfed by them is absolutely mortifying. 

 I know I probably come across as a negative ass in this comment, but I honestly approach every new episode with optimism. Season 9 just keeps letting me down.

[Venomous 18,813]

This episode was cute but it I I feel like the girls could have encountered other, better things to make them realize adult life isn’t as simple as they thought like getting temporary jobs or babysitting. I would have rather seen them doing something like that so they could gain some real experience and wisdom in the real, working world. 

[Cwanky 17,445]

                                                        

[Justin_Case001 4,855]

What's poning, ponles?

So, this episode would have been spectacular... in season two.  Now? 

It was okay.  It wasn't bad, but it should have happened towards the beginning of the show, not the end.  The CMC have learned and matured a lot throughout the series, and their last spotlight absolutely should not have been a lesson about not being very mature or responsible yet.  For f*ck's sake, they've figured out their life's purpose and have helped a ton of ponies now.  I mean, really, their last episode should have been about them opening a counseling office in Ponyville and officially changing their club name to the Cutie Mark Counselors.  That's what I wanted.

But if the writer's were dead set on doing this fair story, there was an obvious way that it could have been perfect.  They had a brief, shining chance to make this episode a knock out, but they blew it.  Here's what they should have done:

After asking everypony else, the CMC go to Starlight as a last ditch effort.  After Glim says that she can't take them to the fair, the CMC would be disappointed and say that they know they aren't old enough to go by themselves.  Then Starlight would think for a second, then say, "I disagree."  The CMC would look flabbergasted, then Starlight would continue, "I know I haven't known you nearly as long as the others have, but from what I've seen, you've learned a lot, and you're even more responsible than some adults I know."  Starlight would then cast a sharp, sideways glance at Trixie, who would scratch her head and give a sheepish grin to say, "Who, me??"

Starlight, cont.: "You've proven yourselves to be responsible tutors here at the school.  Besides, nopony really learns how to do anything until they're given a chance to do it, and I think you three deserve a chance.  But you'll still need to convince your parents, first."

They could then have a few quick scenes where the CMC convince Granny Smith, Scoot's Aunt, and Sweetie's parents to let them go.  (Why is it that Sweetie always goes to Rarity for permission to do anything instead of their parents?)  The CMC would then go to the fair, by themselves, and actually pull it off.  They'd have to have a conflict, perhaps even the same tornado puppy, but instead of screwing it up, the CMC would actually fix it.  Then, at the end, Rarity, Rainbow, and AJ could show up and be stunned to find that the CMC handled themselves.  It could then be the adults who learned the lesson, and said, "I guess sometimes the older sisters always tend to think of their little sisters as the babies, but you're all more grown up than we thought, and you're ready for more responsibilities."

That's how it should have gone down, imo.  After all, if time and aging actually worked realistically in animated shows, then the CMC would be about 18 now.  The lesson about needing to grow up should have happened a long time ago.  I mean, it basically already has in various forms, hasn't it?  They should be ready for more responsibility now, not less.  This felt like a step backwards from Somepony to Watch Over Me, which was five flippin' years ago.  The final CMC spotlight should have been about them actually growing up (not pretending to), and doing more on their own successfully.  The closing of the CMC arc should have been an implication that their foalhood will soon be reaching its end, and that they're learning, growing, and starting to become independent.

Nice cameos by Troubleshoes and the Dude.  Admittedly, it was fun to see what the CMC look like with adult models.  Holy crap, Sweetie Bell was gorgeous!  And her voice, too!    Being Rarity's sister, it's no surprise.

I always think that wish-granting magics are basically just giant plot holes in any story.  It always makes me wonder just how powerful it is, and what it can do.  I mean, what if you said, "I wish to invert the gravitational constant of the universe"?  Would it do that?  Or what if you wished for every single desire you've ever had to instantly come true?  Or what if you wished for every innermost thought you have to be instantly manifested in reality?  Would it do that?  You see what I mean?  If it can grant literally any wish, then that means an incomprehensible and infinite level of power.  What if you just said, "I wish to be immortal, omniscient, and omnipotent"?  See how universe breaking it would get?  And I can't help but feel like it's unwise for Twilight to allow the last wish to be used up to restore the CMC to their proper size.  I mean, yes, it's unnatural for them to have the adult bodies now, but think of everything else they could accomplish with that wish!  Um... how bout... "I wish for all evil to be cleansed from the world forever", or "I wish for Grogar to f*ckin' die", (Yes, I'm aware that they don't know about Grogar yet), or how about, "I wish for an exact duplicate of myself that can run Celestia's stupid show so that I can stay headmare of school where I belong"?  Seriously, though, it seems like leaving the CMC with adult bodies and saving the final wish as a countermeasure against world-ending threats would be the wisest course of action.  These are the kinds of things that run through my head any time seemingly omnipotent wish-granting magic is introduced into a story.

On 9/27/2019 at 8:54 AM, ggg-2 said:

According to a new tweet from Jim, they've been wanting to do something like this since the end of season 5.

Interesting.  That would have been way better had they not waited so long.

On 9/24/2019 at 11:12 PM, ShadOBabe said:

I got spoiled by a screenshot, and I have to say...

  Reveal hidden contents

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I really like how Adult!Scootaloo’s wings are still filly-sized. Nice touch. XD

 

 

Oh wow, I didn't even catch the wings.  That is a nice touch.  That's really cool that they decided to just never have her fly.  It's a nice bit of continuity that makes her character more interesting, and it's a nice message that you can be different and that's alright.

Okay, so I happened to glance at the synopsis for the next episode, and no spoiler, but lemmie just start getting ready:

Spoiler

 

[Latecomer 438]

3 hours ago, lyrabop said:

I'm not sure what it is about this season, but the writing has felt really off for me. There hasn't been a single episode that I absolutely love, which is odd as I can think of faves from every previous season quite easily.

As a general  agreer here. I'd like to know what you thought of Frenemies, Student Counsel and Summer Sun Setback.

[Latecomer 438]

3 hours ago, Bakugou Is My Man ❤ said:

This episode was cute but it I I feel like the girls could have encountered other, better things to make them realize adult life isn’t as simple as they thought like getting temporary jobs or babysitting. I would have rather seen them doing something like that so they could gain some real experience and wisdom in the real, working world. 

They've been doing a job for 3 seasons now, with a high success rate

7 minutes ago, Justin_Case001 said:

What's poning, ponles?

So, this episode would have been spectacular... in season two.  Now? 

It was okay.  It wasn't bad, but it should have happened towards the beginning of the show, not the end.  The CMC have learned and matured a lot throughout the series, and their last spotlight absolutely should not have been a lesson about not being very mature or responsible yet. ,,  After all, if time and aging actually worked realistically in animated shows, then the CMC would be about 18 now.  The lesson about needing to grow up should have happened a long time ago.  I mean, it basically already has in various forms, hasn't it?  They should be ready for more responsibility now, not less.... The closing of the CMC arc should have been an implication that their foalhood will soon be reaching its end, and that they're learning, growing, and starting to become independent.

I always think that wish-granting magics are basically just giant plot holes in any story. 

Okay, so I happened to glance at the synopsis for the next episode, and no spoiler, but lemmie just start getting ready:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

On the first matter, I generally agree, as I said earlier in the thread - but I do think it would probably fit best soon after they got their marks, and I think I'm going to imagine it as being set then.

I didn't mind the flower as a plot device, but it would be nice if Applebloom remembered she's tried skipping ahead via magic plant before and it didn't end well. And as for overlooked uses - well, I do wonder if Scootaloo's going to be kicking herself later.

And what's your problem with the next ep?

Spoiler

Do you just hate SugarMac or something?

 

[Senko 459]

As I said this season seems to be doing more changing characters to fit the story they want to tell than telling a story for the characters than previous seasons.

[nath0102 0]

Am I the only one dissapointed by the fact that Applejack, Rainbox Dash and Rarity have not seen the adult version of their little sis ?

[nath0102 0]

Am I the only one dissapointed by the fact that Applejack, Rainbox Dash and Rarity have not seen the adult version of their little sis ?

[nath0102 0]

Am I the only one dissapointed by the fact that Applejack, Rainbox Dash and Rarity have not seen the adult version of their little sis ?

Sorry for the triple post i'm new here

[Thrond 3,257]

I can't really say people are wrong that the CMC probably should be more mature than this, but the thought literally never crossed my mind until I read people's responses to this. When I said "it's good that this feels like earlier seasons," I hadn't read the thread very far and thought people were merely complaining that it wasn't conclusive enough. I guess part of it is that I've always been of two minds about how responsible the CMC are; I find some of the episodes where they help others to be very satisfying, but I also think it's bizarre that not only fellow kids but also parents are going to literal children for cutie mark advice. It seemed inconsistent with, say, the fact that they never moved up a grade level from Cheerilee's class. We also saw them being chaperoned as late as season 8 in "Surf and/or Turf," and nobody complained about that, but at the same time we've also seen them travel on their own as early as, what, "Parental Glideance"? I dunno, this didn't even register to me as "the final CMC episode" for me, which I guess is the problem if you still pay attention to continuity in this show; I kinda try to ignore it when it's not relevant. I felt pretty strongly that people were overreacting earlier this season regarding Celestia and such, but I don't have a strong defense for this one. 

As a side note, I can understand not wanting them to make the same mistakes they usually make, because those have always been tied to their youth and inexperience. But some of you seem to have wanted an episode where they're in the right from start to finish, and I don't understand that. 

15 hours ago, Latecomer said:

Summer Sun Setback

I'd actually say that this is a bad offender, because I think having Twilight just get over her anxiety so she can become a better ruler of Equestria is a terrible idea. 

[Venomous 18,813]

@Latecomer

I am referring to an actual job. I meant that the girls could have worked at an actual workplace where they actually get paid and have to be responsible with a strict work schedule. 

[Sepul-Coloratura 756]

I think the point of the last CMCs episode was that they were grown up enough to at least make their own decisions.

The CMCs didn't bothered asking Pinkie Pie to take them (which seems like the perfect option and the only one who would be actually interested in doing it), and I don't like that she's being considered as an irresponsible adult or someone who's been detached from reality and common sense. She has taken care of two babies before.

The idea of the episode is good, it's about what kids think they want like the movie Home Alone. The story and the lesson is plain and simple, but besides watching three familiar characters in their alternative ages, the episode didn't have that much fun things going on to be considered great. The Cutie Pox was very similar to this, and it worked better because it first showed what's so great about having a cutie mark in such detail. This episode just superficially shows montages of them running around annoying others it in a song. The tornado pet was such a convenient tool to justify the lesson, yet it comes out of nowhere and feels detached from the rest of the episode. Any adult but Fluttershy could have made the same mistake (or anyone who would have adopted bloody Parasprites at least because none of them had a clue). It was an average episode, and it would have made more sense if it was done before The Last Crusade. Or better yet, how about showing them naturally grown up in the final CMCs episode? It feels disappointing for me when the show seems to be afraid to grow up. Why worry when it's the last season and almost the end of the show?

I thought a furry tornado chipmunk that destroys the whole town was an exaggeration, but come to think of it, it was rather a less catastrophic depiction than what could have actually happened to three children traveling far away from home trapped inside adult bodies in real life.

Edited October 2, 2019 by Sepul-Coloratura

[Singe 2,109]

A missed take away not acknowledged in the episode was Scootaloo had a chance to fix her wings with a wish.

Edited October 2, 2019 by Singe

[Truffles 2,033]

On 9/29/2019 at 1:32 PM, TransitPony said:

Oh, and did anyone see Lyra and Bon Bon on the ferris wheel?

There's definitely been a build-up of those two's relationship over the course of this season.

 

Since I experienced pretty much the same reaction as a lot of other folks, here, I don't have much to add. I was very much looking forward to this one (in fact, looking forward to it the most out of the remaining non-finale episodes.) But the end result was rather pedestrian; a basic paint-by-numbers plot that preferred sending the CMC off to interact with new characters in their new bodies rather than have the humor grow from how the Mane 6 (and the rest of Ponyville) deal with these three fillies suddenly thrust into physical adulthood.

And even with using the backdrop of Appleloosa, even that wasn't handled in an inspiring manner. Here was the perfect opportunity to see Little Strongheart and Chief Thunderhooves one more time. But not only aren't they present, it appears only ponies showed up for the fair. You would think after Twilight's School and griffons and yaks and dragons you'd see some other species attending the fair, but it's all pony and none of the buffalo made an appearance.

And if not Appleloosa, then their classmates in Ponyville. Another nice send-off would have been to have Diamond and Silver both be involved in the story, maybe even  (gasp) as a voice-of-reason instead of her usual purpose? I guess it was revealed very recently that Hasbro didn't really like Diamond all that much and that's why she didn't get any speaking appearances after the CMC got their marks. Bummer.

I also didn't understand why the CMC decided to pick on Twist after they "grew up" during the musical montage. What did she ever do to them? That was probably my least favorite moment in the episode.

I was kind of hoping Trixie would appear and try to fix their problem with an age spell as a callback to old times.

Also their voices weren't consistently adult. Sometimes they would sound like how their VA's sound in real life now, other times they still sounded like they were kids. It's almost like someone in the audio booth forgot to skip pitching their voices up in this episode, lol.

However, even after all that negative commentary, I'm still giving this one a like. Aside from the Twist incident, this episode didn't do anything particularly bad. It was just disappointing to see so many missed opportunities. It still had a lot of fun moments, and Twilight and Fluttershy were on their A-game in this outing. And even though I didn't think this episode needed to introduce new characters, Spur and Biscuit were cute. It's always interesting to see other teenage ponies with the same body shapes as young Fluttershy and Snails. What I liked most of all was it was really great to get an official extended view of what the CMC's will look like after they're adults, so on that alone it would be hard for me to vote this episode down.

 

18 hours ago, Justin_Case001 said:

oly crap, Sweetie Bell was gorgeous!  And her voice, too!    Being Rarity's sister, it's no surprise

I think I found out about this episode before the early airing of 19 and so I didn't know Spike had found a new special somegriffon in Gabby. But while I was waiting for this episode to air, I was hoping there would be scene of him finally noticing Sweetie Belle.

 

37 minutes ago, Singe said:

A missed take away not acknowledged in the episode was Scootaloo had a chance to fix her wings with a wish.

That would have been a really intriguing conundrum: Do they give up their last wish to fix the problem and become foals again, or give Scootaloo the ability to fly? I think since Scootaloo was meant to be a pony kids with physical impairments could relate to, her being able to fly with her own wings was always out of the question, unfortunately. (Even though Bulk Biceps manages, somehow.)

[Princess Cheese Dorito 7]

To be honest, I wasn't much of a big fan for the adult CMCs. Seeing them grown up after being fillies all this time is just weird to me. But when I found out that it wasn't permanent, it made me rest easy. I think this episode teaches you to "be careful what you wish for". It also proposes another good lesson for the CMCs near the end of the episode, where I was glad to see them return to normal. Like I said, I think it's weird. Speaking of weird, the final episode from what's leaked so far (I'm talking about you, final song in English), has to be the weirdest thing I have ever seen. I absolutely hate the new designs for the Mane Six, especially Twilight and Spike. Those two are the weirdest. Getting back to  the recent episode however, is that this has also left me with some uncanny experience, hoping for dear life and determination (any Undertale bronies/pegasisters?) That this does not become our future. Even with everything in mind, I actually liked that episode and I will miss the Cutie Mark Crusaders, remembering all the hard work they put in for all these years on a magical show that brought us all together called My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. 

Edited October 2, 2019 by Princess Cheese Dorito
Typo revision

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

25 minutes ago, Truffles said:

I guess it was revealed very recently that Hasbro didn't really like Diamond all that much and that's why she didn't get any speaking appearances after the CMC got their marks.

*Shocking relevation* 

I'm done. Goodbye world.

*Meanwhile, there is a comic that has post-redemption Diamond Tiara with CMC.*

I will reincarnate myself to mlp comic after the show ends. They will fill the void in my heart.

 

 

 

[Latecomer 438]

7 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I can't really say people are wrong that the CMC probably should be more mature than this, but the thought literally never crossed my mind until I read people's responses to this. When I said "it's good that this feels like earlier seasons," I hadn't read the thread very far and thought people were merely complaining that it wasn't conclusive enough. I guess part of it is that I've always been of two minds about how responsible the CMC are; I find some of the episodes where they help others to be very satisfying, but I also think it's bizarre that not only fellow kids but also parents are going to literal children for cutie mark advice. It seemed inconsistent with, say, the fact that they never moved up a grade level from Cheerilee's class. We also saw them being chaperoned as late as season 8 in "Surf and/or Turf," and nobody complained about that, but at the same time we've also seen them travel on their own as early as, what, "Parental Glideance"? I dunno, this didn't even register to me as "the final CMC episode" for me, which I guess is the problem if you still pay attention to continuity in this show; I kinda try to ignore it when it's not relevant. I felt pretty strongly that people were overreacting earlier this season regarding Celestia and such, but I don't have a strong defense for this one. 

As a side note, I can understand not wanting them to make the same mistakes they usually make, because those have always been tied to their youth and inexperience. But some of you seem to have wanted an episode where they're in the right from start to finish, and I don't understand that. 

I'd actually say that this is a bad offender, because I think having Twilight just get over her anxiety so she can become a better ruler of Equestria is a terrible idea. 

For some of us, their lack of school graduation has been like a minor but annoying itch for a few seasons now. And of course parents will go to them - they have the special talents nad a proven word-of-mouth reputation. You say you've "always been of two minds" but that seems to imply that the CMC should be at the same level of responsibility as ever - but the show has been of two minds about that, and I prefer the other one to the one on display here.

And there are lots of ways to have conflict in an episode. Sometimes a character is the source of their own troubles, other times they face some other issue. It's the same for adults and children. For instance, the CMC are pretty much "right from start to finish" in Crusaders of the Lost Mark", and that's a quite popular episode even if I personally dislike it.

And I don't think she's actually "got over it", any more than the breathing exercises she demonstrated the episode before her ascension did - she's just learning to manage it better. And anyway, most of the episode wasn't about her.

5 hours ago, Bakugou Is My Man ❤ said:

@Latecomer

I am referring to an actual job. I meant that the girls could have worked at an actual workplace where they actually get paid and have to be responsible with a strict work schedule. 

They could have... but seeing that they already have a career based in freelance consulting ahead of them, it would probably only work with them learning the lesson "wow, this sucks - let's not". And I don't know if that would fly in our capitalist society.

 

In response to others... Scootaloo may well be kicking herself over the wings thing later, and I believe posting finale spoilers outside the spoiler forum is verboten?

[Senko 459]

I know I'd appreciate them not being posted in threads about earlier episodes. I've been staying away from spoilers as best I can until I've seen the episode and only then do I even come to this part of the forum (even if it usually leaves me with several pages to read from those who saw it airing in the US). Now I've had a reveal, minor yes but I now know something that will happen and will be looking for it which I didn't expect here.

Also in regards to the CMC's in Surf and Turf

I got a feeling in that episode it was less "You're too young and need a chaperone" and more "I want to see this and I'm using you as an excuse." especially since she pretty much abandoned them in favour of the festival when they got there.

[ggg-2 3,550]

That cowgirl pony reminds me of someone........Oh yeah! Lila Lahiffe from Miraculous Ladybug!