S09:E24+E25 - The End of the End

[ChB 18,532]

2 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

...

This plot twist, well-planned behind the scenes or not, is a massive flaw to this entire two-parter and really brings it down.

I will add that if the plot twist was "all planned from the beginning," then that's all the more reason for me to dislike it. It would mean that they had plenty of time to think it through and make it work ingeniously, and still failed to execute.  

[Justin_Case001 4,855]

Since The End of the End and The Last Problem were aired together as one long episode, basically a movie (at least where I live, anyway), I really wanted to write my thoughts about the 3-episode finale in one post, so I put my thoughts about this two-parter in with my post in The Last Problem thread here.  Hope that's okay.

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

1 hour ago, ChB said:

I will add that if the plot twist was "all planned from the beginning," then that's all the more reason for me to dislike it. It would mean that they had plenty of time to think it through and make it work ingeniously, and still failed to execute.  

According to leaked documents, it was. To expand on what ideas they had…

Spoiler

One idea involved the Terrible Trio using Elements of Disharmony (a concoction Discord-as-Grogar created) to spread disharmony and ruin the Magic of Friendship, and episodes in which they were going to be in aside from the ones they appeared officially were Growing Up and Sweet & Smoky (as Trial by Fire). In the former, Cozy uses an element to attack the town after hearing some of the M6 were there, and in Trial, Chryssie tried to take over the Dragon Lands. (Tirek had his own episode, but nothing was written down.) Here, Discord would use the corrupted Element of Harmony to turn Twilight into Midnight Sparkle. Magic corrupting Twilight like from Friendship Games.

In the second draft, the Elements of Disharmony were removed from the villain arc, and so were Discord causing Midnight Snarkle. To go over the points.

1. Tirek slowly ate away the Earth ponies' magic so they can't grow crops as well as before.
2. Cozy took over the weather factory and sabotaged the weather as a whole.
3. As a unicorn in disguise, QC was able to slowly manipulate the unicorns into believing their magic is taken for granted.

As a result, the harmony between them has eroded away. Discord-as-Grogar planned to attack the coronation, but the trio doesn't attack. Later, Discord warns Twilight that he is Grogar and would try to use the disguise again to sway them off. But the trio uses the bell to banish Discord instead. Out of desperation, Twilight would force the races to get along, corrupting her into Midnight Sparkle. And it's up to Twilight's friends to rescue Discord, free Twilight, beat the bad guys, and rescue harmony to the land.

 

[The Nth Doctor 652]

The title is "The Ending of the End"

 

Sooo...why didn't the villains use Grogar's Bell to drain the Main 5, Starlight, and the Pillars?

[BastementSparkle 20,312]

2 minutes ago, The Nth Doctor said:

The title is "The Ending of the End"

 

Sooo...why didn't the villains use Grogar's Bell to drain the Main 5, Starlight, and the Pillars?

Best reason I can think of is they wanted to wait until they got Discord's chaos magic out of the way before draining them, so then they could just access the magic without worrying about it. Either that or it's just some typical villain arrogance of "We don't have to do this thing that would obviously be good for our plans because we're too good for that.". It's dumb either way you look at it.

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

14 minutes ago, The Nth Doctor said:

The title is "The Ending of the End"

 

Sooo...why didn't the villains use Grogar's Bell to drain the Main 5, Starlight, and the Pillars?

9 minutes ago, BastementSparkle said:

Best reason I can think of is they wanted to wait until they got Discord's chaos magic out of the way before draining them, so then they could just access the magic without worrying about it. Either that or it's just some typical villain arrogance of "We don't have to do this thing that would obviously be good for our plans because we're too good for that.". It's dumb either way you look at it.

For the pillars, Tirek already drained their magic by eating it, so Grogar's Bell wouldn't capture any.

As for not capturing any of Starlight's, no argument. It's a big flaw in the plan, and had her magic been stolen somehow, her friends wouldn't have escaped.

Edited October 13, 2019 by Dark Qiviut

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

27 minutes ago, Dark Qiviut said:

For the pillars, Tirek already drained their magic by eating it, so Grogar's Bell wouldn't capture any.

As for not capturing any of Starlight's, no argument. It's a big flaw in the plan, and had her magic been stolen somehow, her friends wouldn't have escaped.

Pretty sure that has to do with Chrysalis, taking revenge on Starlight while she has power yet is still powerless to stop her.
Chrysalis is still recovering from near insanity, seems about right for her.

1 hour ago, Dark Qiviut said:

According to leaked documents, it was. To expand on what ideas they had…

  Reveal hidden contents

One idea involved the Terrible Trio using Elements of Disharmony (a concoction Discord-as-Grogar created) to spread disharmony and ruin the Magic of Friendship, and episodes in which they were going to be in aside from the ones they appeared officially were Growing Up and Sweet & Smoky (as Trial by Fire). In the former, Cozy uses an element to attack the town after hearing some of the M6 were there, and in Trial, Chryssie tried to take over the Dragon Lands. (Tirek had his own episode, but nothing was written down.) Here, Discord would use the corrupted Element of Harmony to turn Twilight into Midnight Sparkle. Magic corrupting Twilight like from Friendship Games.

In the second draft, the Elements of Disharmony were removed from the villain arc, and so were Discord causing Midnight Snarkle. To go over the points.

1. Tirek slowly ate away the Earth ponies' magic so they can't grow crops as well as before.
2. Cozy took over the weather factory and sabotaged the weather as a whole.
3. As a unicorn in disguise, QC was able to slowly manipulate the unicorns into believing their magic is taken for granted.

As a result, the harmony between them has eroded away. Discord-as-Grogar planned to attack the coronation, but the trio doesn't attack. Later, Discord warns Twilight that he is Grogar and would try to use the disguise again to sway them off. But the trio uses the bell to banish Discord instead. Out of desperation, Twilight would force the races to get along, corrupting her into Midnight Sparkle. And it's up to Twilight's friends to rescue Discord, free Twilight, beat the bad guys, and rescue harmony to the land.

 

This is interesting, I always wanted to see an evil Twilight in the show but I think that scrapping it was the right call
I think the 2nd idea would have been an improvement of the first idea but still I think what we got in the final product was better, my one complaint is that it could have had more episodes for it.

Edited October 13, 2019 by Drunkfrank

[Rushing cash 824]

1 hour ago, Dark Qiviut said:

According to leaked documents, it was. To expand on what ideas they had…

  Reveal hidden contents

One idea involved the Terrible Trio using Elements of Disharmony (a concoction Discord-as-Grogar created) to spread disharmony and ruin the Magic of Friendship, and episodes in which they were going to be in aside from the ones they appeared officially were Growing Up and Sweet & Smoky (as Trial by Fire). In the former, Cozy uses an element to attack the town after hearing some of the M6 were there, and in Trial, Chryssie tried to take over the Dragon Lands. (Tirek had his own episode, but nothing was written down.) Here, Discord would use the corrupted Element of Harmony to turn Twilight into Midnight Sparkle. Magic corrupting Twilight like from Friendship Games.

In the second draft, the Elements of Disharmony were removed from the villain arc, and so were Discord causing Midnight Snarkle. To go over the points.

1. Tirek slowly ate away the Earth ponies' magic so they can't grow crops as well as before.
2. Cozy took over the weather factory and sabotaged the weather as a whole.
3. As a unicorn in disguise, QC was able to slowly manipulate the unicorns into believing their magic is taken for granted.

As a result, the harmony between them has eroded away. Discord-as-Grogar planned to attack the coronation, but the trio doesn't attack. Later, Discord warns Twilight that he is Grogar and would try to use the disguise again to sway them off. But the trio uses the bell to banish Discord instead. Out of desperation, Twilight would force the races to get along, corrupting her into Midnight Sparkle. And it's up to Twilight's friends to rescue Discord, free Twilight, beat the bad guys, and rescue harmony to the land.

 

Wow 

Spoiler

this is a cool concept, kinda wish we could see corrupted twilight.

 

34 minutes ago, BastementSparkle said:

Best reason I can think of is they wanted to wait until they got Discord's chaos magic out of the way before draining them, so then they could just access the magic without worrying about it. Either that or it's just some typical villain arrogance of "We don't have to do this thing that would obviously be good for our plans because we're too good for that.". It's dumb either way you look at it.

Well, chrysalis defeated starlight and then put her in this cell, she probebly didn't even think about it(which is in character), probebly thought they would not escape the prison with the anti magic stone and such and during the fight she didn't have the bell.

[BastementSparkle 20,312]

1 hour ago, Dark Qiviut said:

According to leaked documents, it was. To expand on what ideas they had…

  Reveal hidden contents

One idea involved the Terrible Trio using Elements of Disharmony (a concoction Discord-as-Grogar created) to spread disharmony and ruin the Magic of Friendship, and episodes in which they were going to be in aside from the ones they appeared officially were Growing Up and Sweet & Smoky (as Trial by Fire). In the former, Cozy uses an element to attack the town after hearing some of the M6 were there, and in Trial, Chryssie tried to take over the Dragon Lands. (Tirek had his own episode, but nothing was written down.) Here, Discord would use the corrupted Element of Harmony to turn Twilight into Midnight Sparkle. Magic corrupting Twilight like from Friendship Games.

In the second draft, the Elements of Disharmony were removed from the villain arc, and so were Discord causing Midnight Snarkle. To go over the points.

1. Tirek slowly ate away the Earth ponies' magic so they can't grow crops as well as before.
2. Cozy took over the weather factory and sabotaged the weather as a whole.
3. As a unicorn in disguise, QC was able to slowly manipulate the unicorns into believing their magic is taken for granted.

As a result, the harmony between them has eroded away. Discord-as-Grogar planned to attack the coronation, but the trio doesn't attack. Later, Discord warns Twilight that he is Grogar and would try to use the disguise again to sway them off. But the trio uses the bell to banish Discord instead. Out of desperation, Twilight would force the races to get along, corrupting her into Midnight Sparkle. And it's up to Twilight's friends to rescue Discord, free Twilight, beat the bad guys, and rescue harmony to the land.

 

 

A corrupted pony Twilight would have been a cool idea, but the series finale where she's supposed to be taking over the Equestrian throne soon after doesn't seem like the right time to do it. Would be strange to see her ascend to the throne so soon after her biggest fall like that, just would have been a very odd way to end the show. Would make for a cool Season finale or a comic arc, just not necessarily a series finale, at least not if they wanted her to take the throne so soon after.

Edited October 13, 2019 by BastementSparkle

[Will Guide 21,325]

2 hours ago, The Nth Doctor said:

The title is "The Ending of the End"

 

Sooo...why didn't the villains use Grogar's Bell to drain the Main 5, Starlight, and the Pillars?

 

1 hour ago, BastementSparkle said:

Best reason I can think of is they wanted to wait until they got Discord's chaos magic out of the way before draining them, so then they could just access the magic without worrying about it. Either that or it's just some typical villain arrogance of "We don't have to do this thing that would obviously be good for our plans because we're too good for that.". It's dumb either way you look at it.

The title has absolutely nothing to do with the Bell or villians or Pillars. It's actually a meta expression.

The 2nd End in the title represents how Season 9 is the final Season! The premire of the season was appropriately call The Beginning of the End, or in other words "the beginning of the final season". So "the End of the End" literally refers to the end of the final season; The final 2 parter of the show 

It's so simple yet brilliant, that I'm surprised anyone could miss it.

[BastementSparkle 20,312]

1 hour ago, Wolf Guide said:

 

The title has absolutely nothing to do with the Bell or villians or Pillars. It's actually a meta expression.

The 2nd End in the title represents how Season 9 is the final Season! The premire of the season was appropriately call The Beginning of the End, or in other words "the beginning of the final season". So "the End of the End" literally refers to the end of the final season; The final 2 parter of the show 

It's so simple yet brilliant, that I'm surprised anyone could miss it.

I'm pretty sure his first statement about the episode title and his question were unrelated. He was correcting the thread title which says "The End of the End". The title is pretty obvious honestly.

[Senko 459]

Ok just watched all 3 episodes so my thoughts on the two parter here and the conclusion in that thread.
1) First of Oh sweet Celestia NO! Alicorn cozy glow is just wrong. Also does this mean an Alicorn transformation can be achieved by just power as she didn't really do anything to "earn" it?
2) Discord was playing the part of Grogar, I admit it I didn't see that coming. I thought he was maniuplating events but not that much.
3) I Still HATE the Celestia/Luna retirement arc though I'm now thinking it was deliberate to tie into the show ending and a new era storyline.
4) I liked the little touches  like Fluttershy waving her wing to a fainted Rarity, Dash eating a Donut with one wing feather and Raritie's moment saving Twilight.
5) Twilight failed at her plan for things to stay the same out of the gate as she's already changed the summer sun festival to another festival. Yes I don't like that.
6) Cozy going "Mwhahaha now I shall rule" when she gets Discords power only for it to literally bite her on the muzzle with living pineapples was amusing.
7) The confrontation when the villains took over does add to my theory that although Starlight is weaker than Starswirl and Twilight she's actually the best of the 3 at using her powers in a fight.
8) I liked Trixie reassuring Starlight there was no one better at escaping than her.
9) Aww the princesses finally get their own moment of awesome and it's off screen.
10) We now have canon confirmation windigoes are real.
11) Spikes deadpan "haven't you learnt never to say that" when Dash makes things worse was well done.
12) I notice both Celesita and Luna apparently missed equestria falling apart as well did no one think to go to their ruler about the problems they were having? I mean even the royal guard didn't trust the representation of the element of honesty.
13) I know its mean but I can't help myself hahhhahaa Twilight considers Flurry Heart to be Equestria's last hope over Cadence.
14) Interesting reference to pinkie and the brain inverted to save rather than take over.
15) I do like the alliance of all races coming together at the end and the random ponies stepping up to bring them together rather than the main 6 reminds me of a reviewer's saying in Celestia's world there will always be a new hero able to step up even if they are just a "common pony".
16) Discord's expression was neat in the way he was initially hopeful when Twilight rescued everyone, then dissapointed when he thinks he's not one of them then happy when it turns out he is.
17) Pinkie being able to temporarily control chaos magic was a nice touch even if she did wind up wanting to coat the cosmos in frosting. We also got to see her toon powers when dodging Chrysalis.
18) So at the end on Discords advice we get statue Cozy Glow, Chrysalis and Tirek. The no redemption fans must like that even if the princesses did just turn a child into a statute for presumably all time.

Overall I'm quite happy with these episodes aside from Twilight taking over now on to the final one.

[Sparklefan1234 161,850]

6 hours ago, ChB said:

I will add that if the plot twist was "all planned from the beginning," then that's all the more reason for me to dislike it.

It would mean that they had plenty of time to think it through and make it work ingeniously, and still failed to execute.  

 

The twist made me more confused & letdown than shocked, TBH. 

[ChB 18,532]

11 minutes ago, Sparklefan1234 said:

 

The twist made me more confused & letdown than shocked, TBH. 

Same.

[Thrond 3,257]

On one hand, this doesn't feel like My Little Pony to me at all. But on the other, this is a really good fanfic, and it has some really smart echoes with earlier parts of the series. If you had to have a big epic battle as your sendoff, drawing back into the myth of Equestria's foundation is probably the right way to do it. More importantly, all of the epic adventure stuff is simply better than it ever has been in the show before. All of Equestria's ponies coming together to save the day kinda comes out of nowhere, but it's also incredibly exciting, not unlike similar scenes in The Lord of the Rings or Avengers: Endgame. The action animation is also leagues above what My Little Pony usually does, and a massive improvement over this same season's premiere; stuff like Rarity straining to conjure up a magical shield is honestly kinda awesome, and Starlight's confrontation with Chrysalis is just plain cool in a way we haven't really seen since the original Tirek battle. This also does a great job of making the villains genuinely threatening, and goes dark in ways that I found genuinely confusing given that this is a kids' show. Were they seriously going to rip Spike's wings off?! That has replaced Starlight's village as the most shockingly dark thing in this entire show, and I love that the villains have that menace while still being kinda silly and hilarious. We never quite got the comic relief villains I thought would be great in this show, but this is great as well. I'm not sure this is what I ever wanted from this show, but it's very well-executed; in its own way, this has the same clockwork precision as something like "Best Gift Ever." If we have to have this sort of thing, it might as well be this good. 

...but parts of it feel kinda redundant. The whole strategy of dividing the pony tribes would have been more interesting had season 8 not already devoted a lot of time to racism, though to be fair this episode is a lot less about overcoming prejudice than parts of season 8 were. More importantly, Twilight's whole anxiety that all of her accomplishments were just because Discord helped is hard for me to be invested in. The moral about how sometimes things go wrong is so basic that it seems like something Twilight learns every single time she learns a friendship lesson, and I still don't quite care about Twilight becoming ruler of Equestria. Her greatest accomplishments come from how much she has grown in a person and in what a good friend she has become; all of the times she's saved Equestria are more impressive, but they don't have emotional weight to me, and I'm super annoyed by Twilight considering Flurry Heart to be Equestria's "last hope" because I truly could not care less about the Equestrian line of succession. On some level, it still feels like the writers have fundamentally misunderstood the point of the series, which is also how I feel about Celestia saying what "high hopes" she had for Twilight. On some level that still feels like saying Twilight's friendships were just a means to an end, though the next episode would do a great job countering that implication; I'll discuss the one thing I wish the show had done better there. 

Otherwise: splendid. 

Edited October 14, 2019 by AlexanderThrond

[Thrond 3,257]

I feel like if this crew were to build generation 5 from the ground up to be about politics and epic adventures and stuff, it would work pretty well; this episode shows they have the skill, regardless of how appropriate it was for Friendship is Magic. 

[Latecomer 438]

4 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I feel like if this crew were to build generation 5 from the ground up to be about politics and epic adventures and stuff, it would work pretty well; this episode shows they have the skill, regardless of how appropriate it was for Friendship is Magic. 

All-new team, I'm afraid, (Cept maybe Vogel, who's Hasbro.)

[Thrond 3,257]

3 minutes ago, Latecomer said:

All-new team, I'm afraid, (Cept maybe Vogel, who's Hasbro.)

To be honest I'm still kinda relieved about that; I found the last few seasons frustrating despite their high points. 

Then again I'm still not sure I'll watch the next show. 

Edited October 14, 2019 by AlexanderThrond

[Quinch 1,119]

8 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I feel like if this crew were to build generation 5 from the ground up to be about politics and epic adventures and stuff, it would work pretty well; this episode shows they have the skill, regardless of how appropriate it was for Friendship is Magic. 

That would be pretty cool... for another show, though. I don't know if friendship is going to be the central theme in the next generation {probably not? It's a road well-traveled by this point}, but I'd really prefer it remained mostly lighthearted.

[Thrond 3,257]

Just now, The Grim Reader said:

That would be pretty cool... for another show, though. I don't know if friendship is going to be the central theme in the next generation {probably not? It's a road well-traveled by this point}, but I'd really prefer it remained mostly lighthearted.

I don't really have an opinion on what generation 5 should be. I'm a fair-weather fan. 

[StitchandMLPlover 930]

I LOVED THE FINALE! I'm perfectly satisfied with the ending to the series as a whole. 
I adored when Spike became 2nd in command to Twilight as "Royal Advisor." Spike SO deserves a high position and a proper title! It was so touching when Celestia and Luna spoke about being "all grown up" on her throne. How far Twilight Sparkle has come in 9 seasons….Her interest in magic started with the summer sun celebration so she has truly come full circle.  I was shocked and completely surprised that Discord turned out to be Grogar all along. I really like this twist as it explains why Discord was absent from the MLP 2017 movie for example. It was perfectly in character for Discord as he has to be chaotic to help or he disappears completely from existence. It was interesting to see how Twilight reacted to Discord's manipulation of their past victories. I'm glad the writers got to explore this with Twilight. 
The battles were wonderfully animated. Twilight gets injured! I never thought the writers would take the risk of having a member of the Mane 6, least of all Twilight, take a hit even though Discord and Celestia have been injured in past episodes(albeit Discord faked his injury). This was one tense episode! Also Cozy turned herself into an Alicorn! I would have expected a bit more of a reaction out of the friends when Twilight gets blasted by Cozy…that has got to be permanently scarring for Mane 5. 
I loved that every creature/character came to rescue the Mane 6 in a true moment of friendship, diversity and inclusion done right. Before I ever knew that season 9 would be the last season, I wanted the finale of MLP to have a moment where all of Equestria saved the Mane 6 because that would be the perfect way to show unity and the strength of friendship so I was thrilled that the writers felt the same way. I liked that the Windigos got to make a return when the ponies became divided. I never liked the idea of the pony races being racist towards each other because it always felt unnatural to me in the MLP universe, compared to the real world and some elements of the School Of Friendship feel filled with ethnocentrism, but here it actually works well and gives the Student 6 a minor but vital rule in the conclusion of the series. Sorry I just love the final friendship rainbow scene! Ultimate Friendship Beam anyone?! I love how Spike is included for once! Tempest makes a non speaking cameo! Pinkie Pie using Discord's magic from the bell was hilarious because she seems so chaotic in a way herself. 

[zerozoner 19]

Have to say I loved seeing Discord charge into battle with Celestia and Luna by throwing rocks.

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

Note: Expanded points from a status update.

---

+ Small, but powerful and extraordinarily sweet. Spike has been with Twilight for almost their entire lives, and they supported each other every step of the way. By making him her Friendship Ambassador, she's showing appreciation for everything he did for her, how much he mattered to the maturity of society, trusts his instincts to maintain peace throughout the world, and views him as her equal. For a long time, the show established him as that little dragon trying to find his way.

+ Who can blame Twilight for doubting herself. All this time, she had been defeating evils with her friends, but now that Discord revealed to be Grogar, she feels manipulated now. The coronation was close. Now she was sure she can rule and defend the kingdom! But Discord fiddled with all of them, and now Equestria's on the brink of collapse! All that worth she earned as princess, fighter, and defender felt like for naught.

+ The RM6 were really good, and despite their separation, all seven were competent. Twilight was the best hope for all of

+ The Young Six shine once more.

+ The stakes are at their highest. Tone got dark and light at appropriate times.

+ The Terrible Trio:

1. show their full power potential and use it to bully Equestria, even to the point of threatening to maim Spike and almost murdering all seven. Their stone sentence is absolutely justified.
2. are justified not to use any of the magic, even though they store it in Grogar's Bell. If Cozy Glow can't control Discord's magic, what would happen should they become one with Celestia's and Luna's? (Twilight had a boatload of trouble when she borrowed the AliTrio's to keep away from Tirek.) Becoming part of that magic's more different than eating it.
3. Are a very credible threat beyond just the physical presence. They fought for power and worked together to resolve their differences despite the bickering. It makes the most sense for them to be the final baddies of the show and really commit crimes far beyond anything anyone committed up to this point.

+ The Mane 7 have been instrumental in bringing peace and harmony throughout Equestria and beyond. It only makes sense for everyone else to return the favor.  Thanks to the final battle, their teachings come full circle.

+ Starlight = Element of Badass!

+/- Celestia and Luna were initially defeated easily, but in their second chance to hold them back, they put up another fight and held them off for quite a while.

- The Terrible Trio were also incompetent at the worst time. You already stole the magic of Celly, Luna, Discord, and the Pillars. Why didn't you steal Starlight's when you had the chance?

- Discord being Grogar is a poorly-written, overcomplicated twist that created a long host of massive implications over the season, and despite the massive stakes, the consequences of his stupidity were downplayed. I already explained why his idea and the idea in general was a mess (and I changed my mind on it being "well-thought-out" since; they planned this from the beginning, but has less polish than a rusty car), but what I didn't write was what our heroes told Discord: Apparently he learned nothing over the years, making his growth over the last few seasons pointless. No, he didn't need to be turned to stone, but he needed some level of punishment to make him fully understand how bad the collateral damage he inflicted was. Hell, he almost contributed to the leads' demises! Quite ironic they went with this route after writing an episode with the allegory of a well-made, predictable story's better than a poorly-made, predictable one.

- The disharmony between the Earth Ponies, Unicorns, and Pegasi gathered no momentum whatsoever and has less impact. After Setback, this subplot was tucked away for the rest of the season until here. If we had seen some of this discord at points, it would make sense. But here, it went from no momentum at all to happening immediately. It's jolting and contrived, no different than the sudden momentum of Thorax becoming Changeling King and Starlight's redemption arc post-HWT. As easily as the Terrible Trio were in sowing disharmony and havoc, the Young Six and other students made them reunite in a matter of minutes, making the B-plot and Windigoes pointless. If you're going to put in stakes as high as harmony potentially dying, at least show more than light-speed changes of minds and really show the massive consequences of what disharmony can really do in present-day Equestria. Remove it as is and instead just have the Young Six rally the troops as normal, you get the exact same story.

- Because of this, the Young Six's impact feels slighted. Every array of side conflict wasn't just quickly resolved, but offscreen as well. Twilight stated that those who learn the Magic of Friendship will carry out that magic once they pass away, and the Y6 are used as prime examples for how and where this magic can be spread. However, their offscreen rallying reduces their whole story and arc to a pinpoint, even though they grew a ton over the last two seasons and directly saved Equestria.

- Twilight's realization that the Elements were "just symbols" was sudden. One minute, she didn't know if they were tangible and wished they were around during her talk with her friends, and she realized they weren't the next.

- The leaks showed that Ending of the End had an extremely complicated story that bit off way more than it could chew. Even after cleaning some of the crap up, the same problems didn't go away. There was a main plot and several subplots with the big twist that was planned from the start, but because it was only done in two parts instead of three, DHX really rushed through all the points without putting so much proper weight on any of them aside from one: the RM6 consoling Twilight when she was at her most frightened and vulnerable (the moral this scene taught was great). The Windigo B-plot could've been really good had the seeds been planted throughout (and previous ideas from the leaks show they wanted to do this originally), not get dumped on at the last minute, and greatly impacted the arc leading up to this.

- Even after Twilight and company defeated the Terrible Trio, they almost escape! If Pinkie didn't tap into Discord's chaotic powers and let a house-sized cupcake land squarely over them, they would've escapes and possibly tow Grogar's Bell with them. For how competent the protagonists were, this was the second-dumbest act by a good guy all story long.

Overall, Ending of the End's okay. I like it, but like A Canterlot Wedding, it could've done much better. Other finales and premieres, including Beginning Of, are better.

Edited October 14, 2019 by Dark Qiviut
Added note of reference.

[Toastypk 920]

This was badass!

All the characters coming together!

TEMPEST too!

The fight was so cool, the stakes never higher, One of Twi's lowest morale points.

I have to say though, I was made aware of Grogar actually being discord once the leaks happened. I was looking at images of Grogar and a comment said Hi, [spoilered]! So I was wondering what that would be..

I typed Discord in to see if it matched the length of the spoiler.. it did! I started thinking about it, and it made so much sense. He pulled that fake out with Sombra to get Twi to boost her self esteem. Then there's that line about how he says Twi will be ready for whatever it takes... next scene right to Grogar. He knows. I was wondering, what's going on? Why is he doing this?

I loved how they brought the pillars back for this fight too. I knew they would be used again! My only gripe was that I thought it would be so perfect for them to have brought Stygian with them to show how they considered him a part of their team and wanted to include him this time. Though it's probably better, because of how bad the others were defeated, Styg would be more than a sitting duck.

[Ganondox 899]

Despite what some of my comments in the spoiler's forum may have implied, I didn't actually hate this episode, and I came to like it significantly more the second time I watched it as I was free from expectations so I could just watch the episode for what it was. I still think having Grogar being Discord was a terrible idea and they did not do a good job at building up to it throughout the season, but after that point they did a good job with what they had. Once I realized that for some reason Twilight thought ALL her successes were set up by Discord, not just Beginning of the End, the episode had significantly more weight, and the climax of the episode with the calvary of all the races rushing in was an appropriate climax for the series as a whole. My main issues with the episode now are just in the details, like the Windigos not actually doing anything and I think they threw in a bit too many references. Last thing is I really don't like the punishment for villains, even if they aren't redeemed it doesn't fit with the themes of the show, and they've grown too sympathetic over the last couple seasons to do that to them. The fact they failed to properly learn friendship is tragedy, and if they had to suffer it would be better to see them suffer by their own hooves than by Discord and the Sisters. Other than that I liked these episodes a lot. 

Edited October 14, 2019 by Ganondox