S09:E26 - The Last Problem

[doomie-22 17]

On 10/18/2019 at 6:46 PM, Dark Qiviut said:

I've seen Newborn Cuties online. Nothing from any MLP generation can be compared to that shit mountain. NC's by far the worst thing to ever come out of My Little Pony. The Last Problem is nowhere close to either that level of quality or any of the worst-of contenders in this series, and that is a fact.

The only crime committed by "Newborn Cuties" was being overly cutesy and saccharine. At least it didn't show a child being turned to stone or a supposedly reformed villain getting away with endangering innocent lives by helping three known criminals escape, giving them access to a superweapon, and allowing them to run ranpant, thus only endangering even more innocent lives and leading to a war breaking out. Seriously, if anyone deserved to be turned to stone in this finale, it was Discord. 

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Wrong. She often works with Spike, but as the episode showed and stated quite a bit, every single one of them meets up once a lunar cycle. Despite how busy their lives are, they all manage to work together, meet, and help each other as they rule Equestria. Twi's the de facto princess, but her friends are always there to help whenever they need it.

No. The finale strongly implies that they have all drifted apart and moved on with their lives. They only meet up once a moon. It doesn't help that the finale strongly implies that Twilight and Spike will be subjected to having to watch all of their friends slowly one by one in only a few short years due to all of them dying of old age while they're forced to go on living. This in spite of the fact that we were promised that Twilight would not outlive her friends. 

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That would've truly been awful. This show has been meaningful for a lot of people. If they went with that idea, then they're telling us, "We don't give a damn about this show and will rather throw it away." DHX cares about the quality of the writing, the story, and how much FIM means to those young and old. Bronydom's passion gave them the passion to create and deliver the best they could.

They stopped caring about this show years ago. And if they truly cared about the quality of the show, they never would have hired writers who A) had never seen the show knew nothing about the show due to having never watched it and C) primarily came from a background of working on live-action TV shows and thus, had absolutely no experience working on an animated TV show due to having never worked on one before. 

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1. Faust was never fired. She left on her own volition and went to work elsewhere.

No, that's not what happened. Faust didn't put up with any of Hasbro's crap. She was very vocal about her disdain for Equestria Girls and this was the final straw for her, so she left. Hasbro needed a yes-man, so they gave Meghan McCarthy a promotion because they knew that she'd go along with whatever they wanted. The fact that they began work on Equestria Girls, as well as implementing a huge amount of changes to the show that nobody ever asked for (and believe me, I could write an entire essay on all of that) is telling. I mean, for crying out loud, this is the same company that canceled Littlest Pet Shop due to low toy sales despite the fact that it was getting great ratings, (thanks in no small part due to the fact that it was produced by the same people who made MLP:FiM) only to reboot it a couple of years later. And, no, I have still not forgiven them for that! 

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1. One person helped with all the ideas, but not one person is responsible for everything created. FIM was always a team effort. Even after Faust departed, people who worked with her promised to retain her vision, which they did for the rest of the run.

No. What they did was they took a great series and pissed all over it. Season 4-9 can basically be described as "fan service gone wrong." 

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Again, false. Even after those who worked closely with Faust left, people who loved to write and wanted to write for the show were given the chance to try to deliver for the masses. Sometimes they work, sometimes not. Nick Confalone, Mike Vogel, Haber, the Lady Writers, Hohlfeld, etc., all wrote a lot of great work, and they all came after Season 3. Despite the turnover, they were still able to write a good-quality show.

Yeah, up until they all left and they brought in the writers that would go on to write the crappiness that was season 8 and 9. 

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The final morals of each episode mattered. From the first to the last, every episode was a combination of entertainment and education, whether it had the E/I attachment or not. The characters drove the story, and what the characters learned echo to what the episode's lessons were supposed to be. Sometimes these lessons were simple like from Season 1, sometimes more mature like from S4 onward. Only two episodes of the entire show have no moral (Chronicles, Frenemies). These characters learned from those lessons, grew individually and collectively, and the audience grew along with them.

I could name several episodes that had no moral.

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Your whole rant jumped the shark the second you wrote this right-wing talking point.

1. Representation matters.In The Last Crusade, we got our very first canon same-sex couple. Both Aunt Holiday and Aunty Lofty are excellent characters that were never tokenized at any point, and they were extremely crucial to the development of The Last Crusade. Without their involvement, Scootaloo would've had to go to Shire Lanka with her parents and say a sudden goodbye to her friends back home.

What in the hell does LGBT representation have to do with this? There really wasn't any hints that they were a couple in the episode. The last shiw that should be incorporating political crap like that into its show is My Little Pony. This was done purely for fanservice. It doesn't help that they completely redesigned the characters. 

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1. Lyra and Bon Bon developed over the years, and in Season 8, their relationship really grew with little clues here and there. The Big Mac Question was the perfect time for them to pop the question together, and their announced marriage in the Foal Free Press was extremely heartwarming.

This is in spite of the fact that we never see any hints of them being romantically involved. They literally threw this scene in "The Big Mac Question" and "The Last Problem" purely for fanservice. 

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1. Over the seasons, FIM was validly criticized for sometimes acting imperialistic to other species, spreading their "better" culture to others around the world. In She's All Yak, the characters learned that their accidental tokenization of the non-ponies was only excluding the Young Six and pressured Yona into believing she had to give up her yak ways to do better. The lesson they learned (while not being unlikeable or intentionally imposing) was a long time coming.

This is why so many people had an issue with the School of Friendship idea. 

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1. FIM has always had a very liberal to left-leaning slant, both while under Faust and otherwise (she didn't create a blatantly blatant pro-feminist show for no reason), and the repulsive stereotype you attached on those with a similar ideology shows a massive lack of understanding FIM's construction from the ground up.

I honestly have no clue as to what the hell you're talking about here. What "repulsive stereotype" did I attach to what "ideology?"

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I don't think outstanding episodes like Flight to the Finish, Pinkie Pride, Slice of Life, Lost Mark, Saddle Row, Perfect Pear (the franchise's best episode), Horse Play, Sounds of Silence, Sparkle's Seven, Dark and Dawn, and this (along with the continuing improvement of consistently good quality from S7 onwards) help your case of G4 being "nothing but a huge mess."

Personally, I hated almost all of those episodes. "Sounds of Silence" would've been great had they not had Fluttershy acting so stupid. Her solution is literally the thing that the Kirin were already doing, thus it wouldn't have changed anything at all. "Sparkle's Seven" was bad due to literally over half the episode being nothing but exposition. And episodes like "Horse Play" and "Between Dark and Dawn" were bad due to ruining the character of Celestia and Luna. Episodes like "Slice if Life" and "The perfect Pear" were bad due to both of them being nothing but fanservice. "Pinkie Pride" was bad due to it being unmemorable and using the "guest star" gimmick that other shows like SpongeBob SquarePants have run into the ground..honestly, the only good episodes you listed were "Saddle Row Review", "Crusaders of the Lost Mark", and "Flight to the Finish." 

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The F&M episode concept and ideas given to Larson weren't his, and he disliked it for its mean-spirited tone and lack of lesson learned, but Larson complied to Hasbro's demands and wrote the whole script and song from beginning to end. There was no ghost editor or writer.

I never said there was.

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There is no such thing as a perfect season. Both Seasons 1 and 2 had plenty of crap in it. Boast Busters, Bridle Gossip, Owl's Well, Mare Do Well, PYHD, and Dragon Quest are each among the very worst of the show. Likewise, I already gave a list of some of the best after Season 3. Every season has its great and bad, some more than others.

I liked maybe eleven episodes from season one and six episodes from season two. 

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If I want to watch a truly godawful show, then I'll find Breadwinners, Sanjay & Craig, Allen Gregory, or modern Family Guy. FIM has been and will always be a million cuts above above them.

Oh, yeah, showing a child getting permanently turned to stone and having a supposedly good guy help criminals start a war and not getting punished for it are really top-notch quality wriitng. Seriously, none of the shows you listed have even come close to stopping that low. 

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This show continues to have a following that's tens of thousands of people deep, and you just reduced their current love for it to "they're just a cult following." Your diminishing of their appreciation for the show beyond the early seasons is insulting.

It's insulting that people are praising this finale. This is why some people refer to some of the fans that make up this fandom as being in a cult. It didn't used to be like that. It used to be where if you disliked an episode, you could openly discuss why you didn't like it. Nowadays, if you so much as dare speak ill of a new episode, you're treated like a leper. 

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Also, bronies as a whole do care about quality and know when something goes wrong. But FIM does maintain good quality. Even after Faust left during Season 2's production, this show did very well, then did roughly, then bounced back.

No, it didn't. Season 7 was a marked improvement over season 6, but seasons 8 and 9 are utter garbage, particularly for making everything that happened after season 4 completely and utterly pointless. 

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Whenever there was an episode that makes anyone wonder if it truly jumped the shark, it goes right back on track. Just a few examples.

1. Princess Spike blew. Badly. Soon after, Amending Fences aired, and it's one of the most popular episodes to this day.

The problem with "Amending Fences" is that it makes Twilight out to be the bad guy. Twilight realizes it was her turning down going to the party that caused Moondancer to clam up. For me, that's a problem because 1) Twilight was doing something more important — she went on to stop Nightmare Moon and 2) the episode (in Twilight and Moondancer's reactions) put all the blame for Moondancer shutting down on Twilight. This isn't helped by the fact that Twilight, in all the flashbacks with Moondancer as foals, is never shown as being like her friend, just her classmate. Apart from that one photograph Spike took, Twilight is never shown spending time (or wanting to spend time) with Moondancer outside of class. In these scenes and episode 1, in which Moondancer doesn't even appear (don't worry, we'll get back to that), Twilight behaves like an acquaintance and not a friend, and her not even being able to remember her supposed "friends'" names says volumes. In other words, the episode makes it seem as though introversion and preferring other hobbies/pursuits to making friends is always wrong, as there will always be that one person who takes it personally and makes their feelings your responsibility even if you were always civil to them (as Twilight was) and never did anything to give them the false idea that you were interested in friendship. Saying Twilight had a reputation as a bad friend feels unearned — a bad friend would be someone who pretended like they were someone's friend and agreed to go to [insert social event here], only to blow it off. Twilight didn't do that. To make matters worse, this party that was a big deal to Moondancer, that she herself threw? She didn't invite Twilight to it personally. All the other ponies did, which made it seem more like the invite was given in passing, rather than how the episode played it (that Moondancer really wanted Twilight in particular to show up). Not to mention, Moondancer had three other attendees all quite willing to be her friend! For her meltdown to be sympathetic I really needed more in the episode between her and Twilight, such as Moondancer having a secret crush on Twilight which would make her breakdown all the more sensible, because as it is, it resembles Starlight Glimmer syndrome in terms of reactions/character writing. The intended aesop is obviously well-intentioned: be considerate of other's feelings, even if it's something you think is no big deal yourself, but it's done to the extent that the series is implying you have to take total responsibility for other's feelings even at the cost of your own personal preferences (lone wolf Twilight, if they'd let her stay that way, obviously preferred her own space and books over a lot of studying, which I think is totally fine in moderation and is something the show has tried to represent before in "A Friend Indeed"). Introverts are often made the bad guy in shows like this, or have to change fundamentally, and this was just another example of it in how Twilight's old self is treated. The sole saving grace for me was the other ponies reacting more appropriately to Twilight's apology, and the great character animation in Twilight's expressions that show how much her confidence has grown.

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1. 28 Pranks Later and Cart sucked. Then Times airs, and it's the best Spike episode of the show.

The bad thing about "The Times They are a Changeling" is the fact that it completely rewrote its own lore just to make this plot work. 

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1. Fluttershy Leans In put FS in a terrible light. Parental Glideance airs not long after.

"Parental Glideance" was an abysmal episode. Like "Amending Fences" it paints the main character as the bad guy and tries to make the audience feel sympathetic towards Bow Hothoof and Windy Whistles. This is in spite of the fact that these two snuck onto a military base without permission, constantly disrupted the Wonderbolts while they were trying to perform, including shooting off fireworks where there was a serious threat of them getting seriously hurt, including their own daughter, and attendees going deaf due to being in close proximity to the fireworks going off, among other things. The episode makes them.come off as extremely childish and immature for their age and then wants to paint Rainbow dash as being in the wrong when she very rightfully tells them to knock it off. Yes, she could've done this in a more respectful manner, but I can't blame her for losing her temper at them. It doesn't help that the writers were given a golden opportunity to resolve this conflict at the end, which they didn't go for. So, yeah, i do not like Bow Hothoof or Windy Whistles at all. Not helping this episode is that it implies that Scootaloo has never had anyone to cheer her on and tell her that she's good at anything, which seems to be contradicted by "The Last Crusade." The only good thing that I can say about this episode was that it at least painted the Wonderbolts in a positive light for once. 

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1. Fame & Misfortune? The rest of S7 was much, much better, and FIM never had an episode this low again.

Really? Because most people I know loved that episode and consider it to be one of the season's best episodes. 

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1. Non-Compete Clause is one of the most despised Pony episodes of all time. 

Seriously? I didn't much care for it much myself, but I didn't hate it. 

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1. The rest of the Season 8A was very, very solid.

No, it really wasn't. 

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There's no way to cut it here. Your tone-deaf rant tells me you don't understand the episode at all

Okay, whatever you say. How can anyone not understand it? It's basically saying that everything that happened before hand was completely and utterly pointless and it's strongly implied Twilight will outlive her friends. 

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and it's incredibly offensive to read a massive diatribe that gaslights the fandom and stereotypes the bronies that love the show beyond the so-called "glory seasons." 

Funny how I didn't do that.

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Whether you want to watch the show again or not is up to you, but if you ever do come back, I really recommend you watch it with a clear, non-bitter mind and not stereotype bronies.

I have watched the show with a clear, open mind, several times in fact. And I didn't stereotype anybody.  

Edited October 27, 2019 by doomie-22

[Senko 459]

4 hours ago, doomie-22 said:

To make matters worse, this party that was a big deal to Moondancer, that she herself threw? She didn't invite Twilight to it personally.

I think Twilight did get an invite personally at least in a retroactive fashion since we see that Spike does have a present in season 1 so he at least was expecting them to go prior to the others asking if Twilight was going. Obviously the first season episode didn't plan on the later one but it does work in my opinion as the other 3 know Twilight and were wondering if she was going to attend or not. Where it breaks down for me is that Moondancer should also have known Twilight and half expected her not to show.

[Thrond 3,257]

4 hours ago, doomie-22 said:

No. The finale strongly implies that they have all drifted apart and moved on with their lives. They only meet up once a moon.

Part of what this finale is missing is the suggestion that Twilight has other friends in Canterlot. Without that or any sense that she wanted this, it doesn't really track as a happy ending. Luster Dawn does not view Twilight the same way her friends do. But compared to Twilight's fear that they would lose track of each other entirely, having a tradition of meeting up even though their careers have gone in different directions seems pretty good. It seems like they keep in touch.

4 hours ago, doomie-22 said:

It doesn't help that the finale strongly implies that Twilight and Spike will be subjected to having to watch all of their friends slowly one by one in only a few short years due to all of them dying of old age while they're forced to go on living. This in spite of the fact that we were promised that Twilight would not outlive her friends. 

I think this might have been less of a bummer were it not for the problems I mentioned above. If she got to choose, I would feel a lot better about this whole premise; friendships change, and if Twilight were the only one to become immortal, of course she would eventually need to say goodbye. And if she had other friends in Canterlot, who treat her like a friend and not just as the immortal princess, that would soften the blow considerably as well. If given the option, I would probably choose not to die. 

5 hours ago, doomie-22 said:

What in the hell does LGBT representation have to do with this? There really wasn't any hints that they were a couple in the episode. The last shiw that should be incorporating political crap like that into its show is My Little Pony. 

Hasbro issued a press release saying that Scootaloo's aunts were a couple.

And LGBT representation isn't "political" any more than including straight couples in a show is. Scootaloo's aunts were treated in the same way as other parent couples in the series, because it's not a big deal. We got two big straight wedding episodes, and nobody called that political. 

5 hours ago, doomie-22 said:

This is in spite of the fact that we never see any hints of them being romantically involved. They literally threw this scene in "The Big Mac Question" and "The Last Problem" purely for fanservice. 

 

It was a blink-and-you'll-miss-it background scene for characters whose inclusion in the show has always been fanservice. I didn't even notice either moment while watching. I don't think we should be too concerned about how in-depth their romantic arc was. 

5 hours ago, doomie-22 said:

This is why so many people had an issue with the School of Friendship idea. 

 

That would have been a lot better if they had a qualified multi-species faculty. Then we wouldn't get to see the mane six involved in it, but it's not like the show really did as much with that as it could have. 

5 hours ago, doomie-22 said:

I liked maybe eleven episodes from season one and six episodes from season two. 

 

Wait, did you ever like this show? 

5 hours ago, doomie-22 said:

What in the hell does LGBT representation have to do with this? There really wasn't any hints that they were a couple in the episode. The last shiw that should be incorporating political crap like that into its show is My Little Pony. 

But when you say that it's "insulting" that people enjoyed this, you're basically doing the same in reverse. I'm very open about disliking episodes, and although people did argue with me the last two times I voiced my dislike of a popular episode ("Sounds of Silence" and "The Summer Sun Setback") I kinda expect that when I'm posting that opinion on an internet forum. You're getting such pushback because your criticism is really aggressive and you're making broad assumptions about the writers' and producers' intentions. 

5 hours ago, doomie-22 said:

In these scenes and episode 1, in which Moondancer doesn't even appear (don't worry, we'll get back to that), Twilight behaves like an acquaintance and not a friend, and her not even being able to remember her supposed "friends'" names says volumes.

At least I'm not the only one who thinks so; I find that episode completely nonsensical because it doesn't seem believable that Twilight and Moondancer were ever friends at all. 

5 hours ago, doomie-22 said:

Really? Because most people I know loved that episode and consider it to be one of the season's best episodes. 

 

In my experience it's incredibly polarizing; personally I hate it because it just seems so defensive and mean-spirited, and because I don't think the story is a sensible metaphor for TV fans. 

5 hours ago, doomie-22 said:

In these scenes and episode 1, in which Moondancer doesn't even appear (don't worry, we'll get back to that), Twilight behaves like an acquaintance and not a friend, and her not even being able to remember her supposed "friends'" names says volumes.

I dunno, I hated it; seems to come up whenever people talk about bad episodes of this show. 

 

[Brobot 1,436]

I had such complex emotion when I found out it ended weeks ago, I haven't been on the forums for about a year but the sheer beauty of the finale made me come back. I'm gonna catch up on everything that I missed!

[kazamacat 63]

I am definitely not a fan of this ending. I don't like the time skip. I don't like big alicorn Twilight, I don't like the others looking so much older, I don't like having the Canterlot/Ponyville separation. I don't like how Rainbow Dash looks. I didn't want to see any of the Mane 6 canonically shipped with anyone. They rule Equestria together by not being still visibly friends to the rest of Equestria? Just...PASS. This episode was like if someone found a check list of "Do Not Want" in my notes and then made it.

I do read the ending as Rainbow Dash and Applejack ending up together, and I've got mixed feelings on that. Seeing some of the younger characters grown was a nice touch but I'd rather not "know" the older ones died off in between. I really wanted the end to encapsulate that part of the characters' lives depicted in the series and leave the future older stuff to our imaginations.

[Senko 459]

2 hours ago, kazamacat said:

I am definitely not a fan of this ending. I don't like the time skip. I don't like big alicorn Twilight, I don't like the others looking so much older, I don't like having the Canterlot/Ponyville separation. I don't like how Rainbow Dash looks. I didn't want to see any of the Mane 6 canonically shipped with anyone. They rule Equestria together by not being still visibly friends to the rest of Equestria? Just...PASS. This episode was like if someone found a check list of "Do Not Want" in my notes and then made it.

I do read the ending as Rainbow Dash and Applejack ending up together, and I've got mixed feelings on that. Seeing some of the younger characters grown was a nice touch but I'd rather not "know" the older ones died off in between. I really wanted the end to encapsulate that part of the characters' lives depicted in the series and leave the future older stuff to our imaginations.

I agree with pretty much all of what you dislike about the ending. I liked the Celestia > Cadence > Luna > Twilght sizes over Twilight suddenly and mysteriously growing as big as Celestia when we see no signs of that in Luna or Cadence. The "move to Canterlot and Rule" plot just came out of nowhere and makes no sense at all to me. Unless you buy into the theory Celestia has been repeatedly trolling Twilight from episode 1 and this is just her latest way to torment her which I also do not like.

Personally I ship Twilight Dash but I'd rather they not go with that as the "official ending" because I know other people see them with different ponies and it'd be better since there was no built up relationship to just leave it alone so everyone can keep shipping them with their prefered pair. Same with Pinkie and Fluttershy. Honestly this Apple/Dash pairing left me feeling given the little hints at Rarijack that Rarity wound up alone because her one true love Applejack had chosen someone else and I do not want that. The Big Mac/Sugar Belle relationship like or hate was built up over time we see them meet, start dating, propose, marry and have a foal it works. Applejack and Rainbow Dash or Twilight and Rainbow Dash or Pinkie and Cheese was never shown, never hinted at and it should have just been left alone for the final episode.

Maybe as a little wink given the Rarity/Applejack hints show both of them with a ring (on Rarities horn and around Applejack's's neck) but don't go any furhter leave the fans able to imagine they married but don't tell them who. If you like Rarity and Applejack they're married to each other, if you don't then they found a special somepony somewhere else. Don't show Rarity living in Yakyakistan but do show Yona and Sandbar living in the Boutique. Maybe Rarity is living with Applejack on the farm, maybe she's living somewhere else such as moving into Twilight's massive castle we don't know. Same with Pinkie you can show her having a foal but don't show us the father. Maybe you pair her with Cheese, maybe someone else, maybe she's just babysitting another of the cakes kids leave it up to us to imagine the ending we want.

Edited October 30, 2019 by Senko

[Thrond 3,257]

1 hour ago, Senko said:

Honestly this Apple/Dash pairing left me feeling given the little hints at Rarijack that Rarity wound up alone because her one true love Applejack had chosen someone else and I do not want that.

I think you're reading too much into that; I don't think Rarijack was built up any more than Appledash. I'd personally be upset by Rarijack being canon because I dislike that ship but more importantly I don't understand where you're getting the idea that it already is canon. It seems clear to me that they don't have feelings towards each other. 

[doomie-22 17]

On 10/27/2019 at 9:09 PM, AlexanderThrond said:

Part of what this finale is missing is the suggestion that Twilight has other friends in Canterlot.

What do you mean she has no friends outside of her Ponyville friends? She has plentt of friends: Cadence, Shining Armor, Flurry Heart, the Student Six, Starlight  Glimmer, Trixie, Sunburst, Maud, the Cutie Mark Crusaders, Moondancer, Twinkleshine, Lemon Heart, Minuette, Lyra Heartstrings, etc. 

On 10/27/2019 at 9:09 PM, AlexanderThrond said:

Without that or any sense that she wanted this, it doesn't really track as a happy ending. 

What do you mean "if she wanted this?" She clearly did. 

On 10/27/2019 at 9:09 PM, AlexanderThrond said:

I think this might have been less of a bummer were it not for the problems I mentioned above. If she got to choose, I would feel a lot better about this whole premise; friendships change, and if Twilight were the only one to become immortal, of course she would eventually need to say goodbye. And if she had other friends in Canterlot, who treat her like a friend and not just as the immortal princess, that would soften the blow considerably as well. If given the option, I would probably choose not to die.

Again, where is this "she didn't get to choose" nonsense coming from? She had a choice in the matter. At any time she could've told Celestia, "I don't want to be a princess" and Celestia would've removed her wings and that would've been the end of it. The fact that she didn't tells me that she wanted this, that her becoming princes and eventually ruler of Equestria is just progressing her character. 

Also, nowhere in this finale was it even hinted at the idea that Twilight is immortal. 

On 10/27/2019 at 9:09 PM, AlexanderThrond said:

That would have been a lot better if they had a qualified multi-species faculty. Then we wouldn't get to see the mane six involved in it, but it's not like the show really did as much with that as it could have. 

True, but it at least had a decent payoff in the end. I could understand what the wrirers were going for, but it still was a stupid decision.

On 10/27/2019 at 9:09 PM, AlexanderThrond said:

Wait, did you ever like this show? 

Yes, I just absolutely despised the first two seasons.  Seasons 4, 5, 7, and 9 are the show's best seasons, though. Even seasons 6 and 8, as lackluster as they were, had some great episodes. 

On 10/27/2019 at 9:09 PM, AlexanderThrond said:

I'm very open about disliking episodes, and although people did argue with me the last two times I voiced my dislike of a popular episode ("Sounds of Silence" and "The Summer Sun Setback") I kinda expect that when I'm posting that opinion on an internet forum. 

My only problem with "Sounds of Silence" was Fluttershy's stupidity and my problem with "The Summer Sun Setback" was the half-assed way they just did away with Twilight's character development.

On 10/27/2019 at 9:09 PM, AlexanderThrond said:

At least I'm not the only one who thinks so; I find that episode completely nonsensical because it doesn't seem believable that Twilight and Moondancer were ever friends at all. 

Hence, my major issue with this spisode and why I didn't like it. 

On 10/27/2019 at 9:09 PM, AlexanderThrond said:

In my experience it's incredibly polarizing; personally I hate it because it just seems so defensive and mean-spirited, and because I don't think the story is a sensible metaphor for TV fans. 

 

On 10/27/2019 at 9:09 PM, AlexanderThrond said:

I dunno, I hated it; seems to come up whenever people talk about bad episodes of this show.

The people I saw hating on it were people who stopped watching the show years ago and saw the episode as a personal attack on them for daring to criticize the show. 

[Thrond 3,257]

4 hours ago, doomie-22 said:

What do you mean she has no friends outside of her Ponyville friends? She has plentt of friends: Cadence, Shining Armor, Flurry Heart, the Student Six, Starlight  Glimmer, Trixie, Sunburst, Maud, the Cutie Mark Crusaders, Moondancer, Twinkleshine, Lemon Heart, Minuette, Lyra Heartstrings, etc. 

I phrased that wrong. I just mean that I wonder if she'll be able to make friends the same way in 200 years, once she's been the immortal ruler of Equestria for long enough that most ponies haven't known her as anything else. 

I mean, I think she's immortal; she doesn't seem to have aged like her friends, and the fact that she looks like Celestia now seems to imply as much. Given how much you complained earlier about her outliving her friends, I'm a bit surprised you're arguing with me on that point. 
 

4 hours ago, doomie-22 said:

Again, where is this "she didn't get to choose" nonsense coming from? She had a choice in the matter. At any time she could've told Celestia, "I don't want to be a princess" and Celestia would've removed her wings and that would've been the end of it. The fact that she didn't tells me that she wanted this, that her becoming princes and eventually ruler of Equestria is just progressing her character. 

Yes, it's true that she never said anything, and clearly the idea is that she's happy to take over for Celestia. I'm not convinced Celestia actually has any control over Twilight's wings, but I don't actually know either way. My complaint is that Twilight didn't play an active role in becoming a princess, so it always seemed like she was constantly reacting to something that someone else decided for her. It's easy to assume why she would want to become princess, but she never says it out loud, and Celestia never asked her what she wants. 

If she did want to become Celestia's successor, then I figure that she's fine with everything that comes with that, so I don't see any reason to be unsatisfied. 

4 hours ago, doomie-22 said:

my problem with "The Summer Sun Setback" was the half-assed way they just did away with Twilight's character development.

What do you mean "did away with"?

[Senko 459]

On 10/30/2019 at 12:53 PM, AlexanderThrond said:

I think you're reading too much into that; I don't think Rarijack was built up any more than Appledash. I'd personally be upset by Rarijack being canon because I dislike that ship but more importantly I don't understand where you're getting the idea that it already is canon. It seems clear to me that they don't have feelings towards each other. 

I was referring there to my personal feeling from that element of the final episode you'll note in the rest of my posts that I don't want pairings of the mane 6 like we got. Part of the journey in anything is the main reason we have interest in it. Like I said I'm a firm Twilight/Dash fan but if I came across a story that was "Rainbow Dash married Twilight Sparkle. The End." it'd just leave me cold. There's nothing there showing how they met, when they realized they had feelings for each other, when they had to overcome conflicts etc and that's what I was getting at here. We have seen at several points hints of Rarity and Apple Jack being a potential couple and then bam suddenly its basically hitting us in the face with a Rarity not only alone but having moved as far away from Ponyville as she can get and a Dash/Applejack relationship. It comes out of nowhere and feels to me like this new relationship hurt Rarity so much she had to leave Ponyville. Now I'm sure that was not the intention but this is the risk with taking a mane character and pairing them in an Epilogue time skip where we can't see how that happened. It'll make a small group happy and upset the rest when tis not necessary. Which is why the point of my post was that they shouldn't have paired any of the mane 6 off with anyone. At the most they should have given hints of a relationship with somepony e.g. a ring on Rarities horn saying she married someone but not who. Leave that ambiguous and up to the viewer to decide who she married. But then I dislike a lot of this final episode and the whole Twilight becomes Celestia we get here.

[Thrond 3,257]

10 hours ago, Senko said:

There's nothing there showing how they met, when they realized they had feelings for each other, when they had to overcome conflicts etc and that's what I was getting at here. We have seen at several points hints of Rarity and Apple Jack being a potential couple

I don't think those aspects are there any more for Rarity and Applejack than they are for any other couple. The only thing I see between them is the touchy-feely interactions that everyone has in this show. I mean, I'm biased because that's by far my least favourite mane six ship, but if Rarijack suddenly becoming canon would be weird, then maybe the idea that Rarity is sad Applejack didn't pick her is weird too.

10 hours ago, Senko said:

and then bam suddenly its basically hitting us in the face with a Rarity not only alone but having moved as far away from Ponyville as she can get and a Dash/Applejack relationship. It comes out of nowhere and feels to me like this new relationship hurt Rarity so much she had to leave Ponyville. 

I'm not entirely sure she moved to Yakyakistan, though I'm partially saying that because Rarity moving to Yakyakistan makes absolutely no sense to me. We later saw Yona at the boutique in Ponyville, so it seems to me like Rarity was in Yakyakistan for a delivery or something. 

And I know that you're just talking about a weird headcanon you have, but it's not in the show, so I don't know why you're complaining about it. 

 

10 hours ago, Senko said:

At the most they should have given hints of a relationship with somepony e.g. a ring on Rarities horn saying she married someone but not who. Leave that ambiguous and up to the viewer to decide who she married.

I would also have personally preferred it if the mane six didn't mostly wind up in relationships, though I would like to point out that, for all of the hints, we don't actually know if anyone aside from Pinkie Pie has gotten married. I would find it very strange if Rarity just remained single the whole time, because she's the only pony of the mane six who seemed to have any romantic interest in anyone. Maybe she has a boyfriend, though it's really weird that an episode with so many hints doesn't give her anything. 

[BastementSparkle 20,312]

12 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I'm not entirely sure she moved to Yakyakistan, though I'm partially saying that because Rarity moving to Yakyakistan makes absolutely no sense to me. We later saw Yona at the boutique in Ponyville, so it seems to me like Rarity was in Yakyakistan for a delivery or something. 

And I know that you're just talking about a weird headcanon you have, but it's not in the show, so I don't know why you're complaining about it. 

In the flashback, Rarity actually talks about opening up boutiques for non-ponies, so to me it seems like she followed through on that and probably just opened up a boutique in Yak-Yakistan. I kind of doubt Rarity would move away from Ponyville and if she did, Yak-Yakistan doesn't seem like the place she'd go.

[Thrond 3,257]

26 minutes ago, BastementSparkle said:

In the flashback, Rarity actually talks about opening up boutiques for non-ponies, so to me it seems like she followed through on that and probably just opened up a boutique in Yak-Yakistan. I kind of doubt Rarity would move away from Ponyville and if she did, Yak-Yakistan doesn't seem like the place she'd go.

Yeah, I mean, she didn't even stay in the Canterlot or Manehattan boutiques, and those are Equestria's capitals of high culture. 

[Senko 459]

Exactly yet her Ponyville Boutique is now being lived in by others and we see her come out of the Yakyakistan one so I get left with the feeling she's moved there for some reason and with the Dash/Applejack hints that's what seems likely to me. Honestly I"ll probably ignore that timeskip because while it has some amazing emotional moments there's just too much I dislike. The mane 6 relationships, Twilight's change, the friends apparently drifting apart well its all been mentioned above.

The Rarity/Applejack hinting is a lot more explicit if you watch Equestria Girls including a gender swapped version pallete of Applejack Rarity has a crush on who then dissapears at the end of the episode. Applejack mentions Dash having chores which is pretty odd for friends who meet once a month when they've just met up for said monthly meeting unless they're living together now.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Senko

[BastementSparkle 20,312]

17 minutes ago, Senko said:

Exactly yet her Ponyville Boutique is now being lived in by others and we see her come out of the Yakyakistan one so I get left with the feeling she's moved there for some reason and with the Dash/Applejack hints that's what seems likely to me. Honestly I"ll probably ignore that timeskip because while it has some amazing emotional moments there's just too much I dislike. The mane 6 relationships, Twilight's change, the friends apparently drifting apart well its all been mentioned above.

The Rarity/Applejack hinting is a lot more explicit if you watch Equestria Girls including a gender swapped version pallete of Applejack Rarity has a crush on who then dissapears at the end of the episode. Applejack mentions Dash having chores which is pretty odd for friends who meet once a month when they've just met up for said monthly meeting unless they're living together now.

Or it could just be that Yona and Sandbar are her employees? The thing about her opening more shops is that even if she doesn't move away from Ponyville, it still means she has to spend more time away from Ponyville to deal with all of them, and considering Ponyville is housing a lot more than just ponies in the epilogue, I'd imagine it's grown and so there's probably more customers. It makes sense she might hire others to help manage her boutique while she's gone. I think that makes a bit more sense than her moving, personally.

 That said, I share your feelings on mostly ignoring the epilogue, since I'm not the biggest fan either. I mostly like to just think of it as a "Potential future" one of many possibilities that might happen, not anything concrete.

[Thrond 3,257]

On 11/1/2019 at 2:30 AM, BastementSparkle said:

Or it could just be that Yona and Sandbar are her employees? The thing about her opening more shops is that even if she doesn't move away from Ponyville, it still means she has to spend more time away from Ponyville to deal with all of them, and considering Ponyville is housing a lot more than just ponies in the epilogue, I'd imagine it's grown and so there's probably more customers. It makes sense she might hire others to help manage her boutique while she's gone. I think that makes a bit more sense than her moving, personally.

Yeah I think that makes way more sense. Yona at the very least quite clearly works there, but that doesn't mean Rarity has moved out. 

[The Recherche 29,965]

One thing I will say right off of the bat is that I appreciate that the series finale was not an epic clash of sorts; the previous two episodes covered that well enough. Though I may not be the biggest fan of the episode overall, I do like that they opted for a slice-of-life finale, rather than a final battle finale. That said, I do appreciate the moral they conveyed: change is a necessary part of life, and whether you like it or not, you will have to face it one day, regardless of how it makes you feel.

The episode overall is competent enough, having the same general humor, visuals, and charm we have come to expect, on top of a message that I generally like. From a pure entertainment standpoint, I don't have much to complain about... but the lore connotations, I have some issues with. I know it will likely seem as though I am making mountains out of molehills, but I do genuinely think things like this matter, especially considering that this was the series finale.

First of all, I dislike Twilight being the sole ruler of Equestria. Not is it a massive responsibility to thrust upon one person, but the sudden discarding of the two princesses seemed completely inappropriate. I do understand the basic idea of placing her in the position of ruler of Equestria, considering her title as Princess of Friendship, but why was it necessary for Celestia and Luna to step down and basically vanish with no trace?

Then there is the epilogue itself... which I have some thoughts on, to say the least. First of all, I strongly dislike Twilight and Spike's designs.  Princess Twilight 2.0 is a borderline Celestia recolor, and Spike is far too anthropomorphic and disproportionate. I do understand the general idea of both, but Twilight's design should have been revised to resemble her more, and Spike should instead be growing into a more traditional dragon, as was much more common in the earlier seasons. This highlights the biggest issue I have with the finale, and the later half of the series as a whole... but more on that in a bit.

As for the remainder of the Mane 6... they don't fare much better. One minor complaint I have with their designs is their eye bags; I do understand that they were meant to convey age, but they just look exhausted instead. That is the least of my issues with them, however, though they each have unique issues. To summarize:

• Pinkie Pie is paired with a character that she has very little romantic chemistry with, from my recollection. This isn't wrong per se, but it is awfully sudden, as seems to be the trend in the series finale. I do know this was a common ship, but canon and fanon are two separate things.
• Applejack inheriting Granny Smith's scarf is a nice touch, but of all of the Mane 6, she is the one who should have a family... but she doesn't.
• Rainbow Dash being captain of the Wonderbolts is fine, but her design resembles Spitfire too much. Again, I understand the idea here, but Rainbow Dash is her own person, not a mere successor to someone.
• Fluttershy is probably the best handled one, though her mane is a bit ugly.
• And finally, Rarity is alone in her middle-ages, in spite of her romantic pursuits in her younger years, which utterly perplexes me. I do like her design quite a lot, but her epilogue is yet another contradiction to what their characters have expressed desires for in the past.

There are various others I could go into, but those are the most important. So, truthfully told... I am not happy with any of the epilogues; at best, I am lukewarm. I will even go as far as to say that the general state of the Mane 6 is... borderline depressing. Virtually none of them got what they wished for early on, and the elephant in the room being Twilight outliving her friends is not addressed at all. The Mane 6 do not look like they are in their golden years; they as though they are well past their prime, and have stagnated in life.

This all leads to the largest issue I have and have had with the later few seasons, perfectly encapsulated by Twilight being the new ruler of Equestria: instead of keeping Equestria a high-fantasy setting, they are determined to turn it into friendship land. I know that likely sound silly, considering the theme of the series as a whole, but one of my favorite aspects of the series early on was how well-defined and mystical the world seemed. It was an overall pleasant place to be, sure, but it had dangers, classes, tensions, and so on, as any normal world does.

Overall... I don't know. As I said; the finale itself was perfectly acceptable, and the final song of the series, "The Magic of Friendship Grows" is absolutely fantastic, but the smaller things about the finale get to me. There wasn't anything bad enough to completely ruin the series for me, but the epilogue leaves me a bit cold, admittedly. I would have preferred if they had just left it ambiguous.  Nevertheless, the journey up to this point was certainly worth it, in the end.

[Klutzy Draconequus 12]

After reading some of this discussion, I’m a little hesitant to throw in my worthless two cents, but at the risk of having things thrown at me, here goes. 

Maybe it’s because I’m completely new to this fandom and maybe it has to do with the fact that I have only watched every episode featuring Discord and nothing more, but I didn’t think this was a terrible finale. Granted, it could have been better. I don’t get why Twilight has an overactive pituitary gland and gets bigger and “prettier” than her friends while they stay “adolescent size” and develop wrinkles, but I shrugged it off. The song was enjoyable as I have found most of the songs to be in the show. I can relate to the whole moving away bit because my own childhood was a series of me moving away every one to two years and losing touch with friends. All in all, it wasn’t bad.  Biggest complaint: not enough Discord. Yes, you can throw things at me for that if you wish.

Now on to my main curiosity. I really like the odd friendship that developed between Fluttershy and Discord. I think it’s cute how the writing throughout the show implies that Discord might have a crush on her (I get a kick out of his jealousy and overprotective behavior), though I can’t say I’m totally sold on a true romantic relationship between them. So with this finale, Fluttershy made her entrance through a portal that had Discord written all over it before he even appeared. Is this meant to say that they truly did end up together as more than friends? Like...married? 

[The Nth Doctor 652]

Would've been more interesting if Twilight had reverted to a unicorn 30 years later and we're given no explanation so we could come up with our own idea of what happened in the intervening years

[Quinch 1,119]

1 minute ago, The Nth Doctor said:

Would've been more interesting if Twilight had reverted to a unicorn 30 years later and we're given no explanation so we could come up with our own idea of what happened in the intervening years

Better yet, Twilight's a griffon, Rainbow Dash is a buffalo, Applejack is a breezie, Fluttershy is a sea serpent {imagine the hugs!}, Pinkie Pie is a cow and Rarity's a zebra!

[BastementSparkle 20,312]

7 hours ago, Klutzy Draconequus said:

So with this finale, Fluttershy made her entrance through a portal that had Discord written all over it before he even appeared. Is this meant to say that they truly did end up together as more than friends? Like...married? 

It's possible, the writers were sort of hinting at that, though many of them have said they decided to leave it ambiguous for fans to make up their own minds. Just cause Discord brings her doesn't have to mean they live together though, it could just mean she was visiting him before showing up to the Friendship Council, or maybe just hitching a ride because having a friend who can take you anywhere in seconds, who wouldn't want to use that?

 So, they could be a couple or just a pair of very close friends, up to you to decide.

[The Nth Doctor 652]

Discord is Fluttershy's Uber because she doesn't like to fly

[Will Guide 21,325]

Recently the Final episodes of two shows I've been watching through Netflix had this to say about the story ending.

ONCE Upon a Time: Names not given for spoilers reasons

Quote

Character A : This is it. It's your happy ending.

Character B (smiling throughout) : Mm, no, not even close. This isn't an ending. I hate endings. Because then your story is done. And everyone here... well, their stories are far from over.

Character A : Well... a happy beginning, then.

Character B : I like to call it... a second chance.

 

And in the Netflix version of Lemony Snicket's a Series of Unfortunate Events in the final minutes of the Last Chapter

Quote

Sometimes, a chapter might end, but that doesn't mean the story's over. And some stories go on even after the storyteller has stopped telling them

 

[Jane 121]

I don't like the last episode of the series. Leave such ambiguous explanations of what happened to the lives of our protagonists, if Hasbro was going to leave things so indescised just for fans to choose, better we would have written the damn episode!

Is Appledash canon? We will never know, Fluttercord? Many fans say they only work together and others say they are a couple.

Twilight is nothing more than an ugly recolor of Celestia. I thought that Celestia had taken decades to grow to that size, Luna is a few years younger than Celestia and still was notoriously smaller, and now boom! a Twilight 15 years in the future that grew as much as Celestia. I would have liked her to only grow up like Cadence, who is a couple of years older than her, or even Luna, but no, she looks so bad next to her friends.

I know that animators have always tried new techniques and improving animation, but there are many nasty designs in this episode! The Young Six, of course, with the exception of Gallus (who looks the same) his designs were really beautiful, but now we only had bad adult versions of them very badly made, and Yona EXAGGERATLY large. Another would be the son of Pinkie, who is a mini Pinkie with the colors of Fluttershy, but very simple. Let's not talk about the bags under their eyes that were there to tell us that they are aging, very rarely we saw ponies with those lines, I do not remember that their parents had them, and the only character, in addition to older ponies such as Granny Smith,  who had more time on the screen, was Soarin, which at first I thought it was due to fatigue, but then I guessed it was already an adult pony.

At the beginning of the season (and the rest of the time the subject was discussed) we were led to believe that the all the mane six  would govern, but then we found out that that beautiful castle we had for 5 seasons would be left behind, and now Twilight would move to Canterlot and he would forget the idea of being with his friends all together. 

What it is to be born in a high class family.

Edited November 9, 2019 by frida

[Jane 121]

it would be more credible that Luster was the sister of Starlight and Sunburts than their daughter, but leaving this theory, what if Starlight is going to teach recurring classes at the School of Magic and this is the reason why she knows Luster? It would be strange on Twilight, not to invite Starlight to teach in the School from time to time. 

PD: Celestia in the 1000 years she was ruling, never found someone to replace her? Really?