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movies/tv I think I identify with Joker now on some level


PCutter

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I only watched Batman TAS for a little bit before now I'm watching it fully. Then I played the Arkham series. These solidified Batman as my absolute fave.

That is, until Joker came, especially this year's film.

He was already entertaining before, but now I feel like I understand him more of how he thinks. His justified rage, his suffering. Maybe I was never jumped or had to shoot someone in self-defense, but his situation in which he is nothing but a triviality and another stepping stone for everyone else is what held me. How the world refuses to see through the other's mind. How he, like me, who are of differing philosophies, are treated like evil outliers.

But I'm not reckless or able to do those things he did. I merely look at a gun in real life and I already feel heavy. I'm not charismatic to start some anarchist movement.

Edited by PCutter
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3 hours ago, PCutter said:

I only watched Batman TAS for a little bit before now I'm watching it fully. Then I played the Arkham series. These solidified Batman as my absolute fave.

That is, until Joker came, especially this year's film.

He was already entertaining before, but now I feel like I understand him more of how he thinks. His justified rage, his suffering. Maybe I was never jumped or had to shoot someone in self-defense, but his situation in which he is nothing but a triviality and another stepping stone for everyone else is what held me. How the world refuses to see through the other's mind. How he, like me, who are of differing philosophies, are treated like evil outliers.

But I'm not reckless or able to do those things he did. I merely look at a gun in real life and I already feel heavy. I'm not charismatic to start some anarchist movement.

I know that feeling mate. I had a complicated life up until a few years ago, up to contemplating the most... “questionable” things the Joker has done in the film :sunny: (except for directly killing my mom, unless  not giving a shit how she would cry if I would commit suicide counts :muffins:)

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@Steve PiranhaIt's almost like the anarchism, the nihilism, seemed to actually make sense. Maybe it is seductive like that, but I still have morals.

But still, after with Murray, surely we all have those SOBs in our lives whom we strongly feel are downright unpleasant to the core?

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Joker is a good movie, but it's not a supervillain origin story. Joker's Joker =/= the comic book Joker. It's an alternative take on the circumstances that could create a Joker-like character. How it ties in to any of the comic book origins is doubtable at best.

And if you feel that Joker gives you a reason to do bad stuff: no, it doesn't. It represents one man's descent into madness in a fictional setting. It's not a manual for how to live your life or to justify your own bad behaviour.

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9 minutes ago, Sunny Fox said:

Joker is a good movie, but it's not a supervillain origin story. Joker's Joker =/= the comic book Joker. It's an alternative take on the circumstances that could create a Joker-like character. How it ties in to any of the comic book origins is doubtable at best.

And if you feel that Joker gives you a reason to do bad stuff: no, it doesn't. It represents one man's descent into madness in a fictional setting. It's not a manual for how to live your life or to justify your own bad behaviour.

This. 
 

I watched the film and the character is not supposed to be sympathetic. The unreliable elements of the depiction of events presses home the idea that at the end of the day it’s all about justifications that he fathoms out of his twisted perspective of life. 

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31 minutes ago, Sunny Fox said:

Joker is a good movie, but it's not a supervillain origin story. Joker's Joker =/= the comic book Joker. It's an alternative take on the circumstances that could create a Joker-like character. How it ties in to any of the comic book origins is doubtable at best.

And if you feel that Joker gives you a reason to do bad stuff: no, it doesn't. It represents one man's descent into madness in a fictional setting. It's not a manual for how to live your life or to justify your own bad behaviour.

As far as I understand, it was originally thought to be an original character and setting, but settled to borrow elements from DC properties 

And well, is funny if someone feels the movie is an excuse to become evil. You are proving the movie right, you being insane :mlp_yeehaa:

 

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(edited)
4 hours ago, Sunny Fox said:

Joker's Joker =/= the comic book Joker. It's an alternative take on the circumstances that could create a Joker-like character. How it ties in to any of the comic book origins is doubtable at best.

The Joker movie is a villain origin story. The character joker is very vague when it comes to his origin story so all is open to any ideas. However, the movie does corresponded to the comic element of the joker past. Minus the part when he falls into a pit of chemicals that screwed his brain. But in the Comic universe his origin has already been done once. He start off as a normal man with a family and then shit happen that lead him to becoming the joker.  
 

The white knight comic however, give us a different perspective of the joker hinted what he would be like before becoming the joker.

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(edited)

So what if he is just a "madman" who should not be a hero? I don't plan to emulate his life, philosophy and actions, but would that mean the dominance of those people whose character is the definition of horrible, where all forms of politics and governance are just gaslighting and hollow promises, where there are more Trump-like people today around every corner you got?

They're never going to change, and all the approaches of diplomacy and negotiation made by everyone are all empty too because they'll just get spurned. I think sometimes, armed revolution would be the only way against those who will never listen and intend to make the world worse just so they can be proven right.

Edited by PCutter
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(edited)

And would you expect Phoenix or at least someone else to do what he did to Murray to all those "talk hosts" that people consider as fake, unfunny to the core and never deserving a their own show, all just to prove a point?

Edited by PCutter
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I'll start this off by saying that I've seen nothing of the new Joker movie... but I know the character and the tropes surrounding him rather well.

Life, in a nutshell, can suck.  Many of us have to endure a number of hardships, and even the smallest thing has the chance to bring us to the breaking point, if it happens at a key moment.  More often than not, I've seen a number of different shows and movies that attempt to paint a villainous character in a sympathetic light, pointing out how this event or that person brought about a trigger that ultimately explained the actions of said villain.

Mind you, it doesn't excuse such behavior - it only explains it.

To a psychotic person, that's a doorway; it opens others to the possibility that 'there, for the grace of God, go I'... which translates to 'except for different circumstances, that could be me'.  That's the kind of mentality that allows unstable or manipulative people to coerce others into excusing their behavior.  Case in point?  How often, through ALL his incarnations, have we seen the point where the Joker suddenly acts like a victim, convincing others that he was just 'a product of circumstance'... only to prove later that it was a ruse to get what he wanted, usually leaving the person he duped either dead or wishing they were?

Honestly, I can identify with some of the Joker, too.  I understand the mentality of Life being a joke, and being the punchline that you feel is most appropriate to be.  I understand how someone can hurt so much, they finally snap and do the things that society calls uncouth, unorthodox or vile.  I empathize with the mentality that we're ALL terrible people, and that we should all be ashamed of things we've done to the point where the only logic seems to be to burn it all down and let whoever's left sort out whose ashes are whose.

Sympathize, yes... but NOT excuse.

Anger, rage, hatred, vengeance... these human emotions are ones that bring us to ruin, more often than not.  They fill our heads with misguided thoughts that we feel may be justified, and they bring us to the brink of bad decisions.  But no matter what sort of justification we may believe, the reality of the matter is that doing something horrible because of how we were treated is still doing something horrible.  Just because you suffered some rough and traumatic experiences, it does NOT justify you taking it out on other people.

Even if the people you target are the ones who did you harm.

I've suffered bullying, sexual abuse, and being ejected from my family (three times, no less)... but those things don't mean I get to stab people or blow up hospitals.  The pain I feel hurts, tremendously at times, but I don't allow myself to justify becoming a sadistic killer because I hurt inside.  That mentality is far too seductive for me to believe it'll do me ANY sort of good.  I've learned to recognize when things I think are going too far, and I have certain steps in place to ensure I never cross that line between 'I feel like dispensing pain' and ACTUALLY doing so.

The Joker has always been an extreme case of 'hurt the world because it amuses my broken soul'.  Regardless of what motivations he has, in the end, he always feels the degradation and destruction of 'society' and such is HIS RIGHT; he has little regard for lives lost or methods employed - as long as he gets what he wants, and what he usually wants is to make others suffer... because HE suffered.  It's a very subtle thing, but his mentality has always been of a smarmy juvenile who believes the world owes him a laugh.

In a way, he's not very far removed from Eric Cartman of South Park... just more murderous.

Still, one can't help but feel an empathy towards such a mentality... however, we should all remain vigilant that sympathy does NOT allow us to excuse such actions.  I've suffered, but it doesn't mean I'm allowed to make others suffer for it.  The same should go with anyone, in any situation, in any measure.  No matter how bad you have it in Life, it's N E V E R an excuse to harm others.  I can understand where the Joker comes from... but I still do not approve of his behavior.

... and that's okay.  Because understanding monsters should be a catalyst to helping us figure out how to stop them - not to emulate them.  

 

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(edited)

@SixamidnarSo your sentiment also applies to those hosts like Kimmel and Fallon who were with Phoenix and are constantly hated for being "disgraces to comedy?"

And I'm sorry for what you had experienced in your life.

Because I'm also one being silenced too.

Edited by PCutter
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The thing is with this movie is that it’s not meant to excuse joker’s action. It’s not meant to inspire anyone. It’s not meant to criticizes the broken. It’s meant for the viewers to finally understand this character. It’s not wrong to sympathize because that shows you still show humility despite of their action. What he did has already been done. Judgement has already been served. So now what? 

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  • 4 months later...
On 10/14/2019 at 5:11 AM, PCutter said:

I only watched Batman TAS for a little bit before now I'm watching it fully. Then I played the Arkham series. These solidified Batman as my absolute fave.

That is, until Joker came, especially this year's film.

He was already entertaining before, but now I feel like I understand him more of how he thinks. His justified rage, his suffering. Maybe I was never jumped or had to shoot someone in self-defense, but his situation in which he is nothing but a triviality and another stepping stone for everyone else is what held me. How the world refuses to see through the other's mind. How he, like me, who are of differing philosophies, are treated like evil outliers.

But I'm not reckless or able to do those things he did. I merely look at a gun in real life and I already feel heavy. I'm not charismatic to start some anarchist movement.

The feeling’s all too familiar. I relate to very few characters, but for the ones I do, the similarities are creepy…

For me, when I see a gun, I want to pick it up…take it apart and see how it works. Whatever it’s a weird thing I do. I like to see how things work.

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The movie Joker is a loser from what I can tell. He just lashes out in an impotent rage, even his very being is a reaction.
He may seem free but he just gave up his essence and allowed himself to be defined as a negative of the things he hate, instead of building something he loves.
I am not saying this as a moralizing take, but as that one need to do their own work to affect the world and society to make their own fortune.

It's okay to have negative thoughts, but don't be controlled by them in a ruinous way.

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On 3/9/2020 at 9:44 PM, Dank Pony Child said:

The feeling’s all too familiar. I relate to very few characters, but for the ones I do, the similarities are creepy…

For me, when I see a gun, I want to pick it up…take it apart and see how it works. Whatever it’s a weird thing I do. I like to see how things work.

There is nothing wrong with liking and owning firearms! I own several. :Pharynx:

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59 minutes ago, Dank Pony Child said:

I have a water gun.

had.

it broke.

cheap dollar store squirter.

I have like 6 actual firearms XP 

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