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Twilight’s New Immortal Groove


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2 hours ago, Pentium100 said:

I can turn the question into this: "Why would I want to die?". Well, I don't and I do not see a reason why I would want to. Just because it is "natural" and "the order of things"? Not a good enough reason for me.

You'd think this would be obvious, but looking at all the "Twilicorn must be mortal!" going around...

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Latecomer said:

You'd think this would be obvious, but looking at all the "Twilicorn must be mortal!" going around...

Yea, I don't really understand that. I'd rather think that Twilight manages to make her friends immortal so they could stay with her forever instead of them all dying. I do not want Twilight to die.

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1 minute ago, Pentium100 said:

Yea, I don't really understand that. I'd rather think that Twilight manages to make her friends immortal so they could stay with her forever instead of them all dying. I do not want Twilight to die.

Me neither, but we seem to be a minority - or perhaps the other side is just louder?

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7 minutes ago, Latecomer said:

Me neither, but we seem to be a minority - or perhaps the other side is just louder?

Probably - usually the louder side is the one which does not like the current situation. For example, there are a lot of things and situations that I like, if I took time to comment that I like them, I would be here all day, so I only comment when it is not common to like something.

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3 minutes ago, Pentium100 said:

Probably - usually the louder side is the one which does not like the current situation. For example, there are a lot of things and situations that I like, if I took time to comment that I like them, I would be here all day, so I only comment when it is not common to like something.

Yeah - I suppose they quieted down a bit after the McCarthy tweet back in the day, while we didn't get loud in return because it was just a tweet after all.

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Interesting conversation regarding Twilight and immortality. I split this from the fear of death thread since this is a different conversation but still interesting in its own right. 

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3 hours ago, Pentium100 said:

That can have two meanings - Twilight dies or her friends become immortal too (my preferred option).

Yeah, it was knid of a derail I guess...

And I suppose that's also a possibility - they're far from expired yet. Dunno about all of them though - that seems a bit too lucky. Suppose it might have something to do with the Elements... but if they made their Bearers immortal, why would they be made to be inherited?

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(edited)
13 minutes ago, BornAgainBrony said:

Argodaemon covered this long ago, what I assume is back around S3, and it's one of the most beautiful fanworks ever.

 

Spoiler

The room was impressive if gaudy - I doubt all of the Manes would have liked it, but I was going to say "well, if it helps her cope..." - except it clearly doesn't. Not sure what she did at the end, but I suspect I wouldn't approve.

 

Edited by Latecomer
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1 minute ago, Latecomer said:
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The room was impressive if gaudy - I doubt all of the Manes would have liked it, but I was going to say "well, if it helps her cope..." - except it clearly doesn't. Not sure what she did at the end, but I suspect I wouldn't approve.

 

Maybe for a while. I know a thing or two about time making things worse rather than better. Not all wounds heal. Some are aggravated, infected, and they just spread. Dealing with that across centuries or even millennia? Yeah, uhm... no.

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1 minute ago, BornAgainBrony said:

Maybe for a while. I know a thing or two about time making things worse rather than better. Not all wounds heal. Some are aggravated, infected, and they just spread. Dealing with that across centuries or even millennia? Yeah, uhm... no.

That's why it's important to make sure they heal cleanly, with plenty of antiseptic

DO you think Celestia has never had friends?.

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Just now, Latecomer said:

That's why it's important to make sure they heal cleanly, with plenty of antiseptic

DO you think Celestia has never had friends?.

If she did, I don't think she came out fine afterwards either. She was closed off enough to fail to notice her own sister suffering in loneliness; something she should have been able to spot VERY easily if she went through the same thing Twilight did.

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25 minutes ago, BornAgainBrony said:

If she did, I don't think she came out fine afterwards either. She was closed off enough to fail to notice her own sister suffering in loneliness; something she should have been able to spot VERY easily if she went through the same thing Twilight did.

She was still young (relativly) then. But she gt through, perhaps because she knew she had to wait for Luna. For Twilight, she won't want to live Spike and Discord and Cadance alone in their grief. And eventually, she'll be OK.

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10 hours ago, Pentium100 said:

Yea, I don't really understand that. I'd rather think that Twilight manages to make her friends immortal so they could stay with her forever instead of them all dying. I do not want Twilight to die.

Although it's understandable from an emotional perspective, would it really be right for Twilight to make her friends immortal? Even if such a spell existed it would be an abuse of power. Why only Twilight's friends? Why not others in Equestria? It would be an act others will inevitably frown upon. 

I'm not even sure the other Mane 6 would want to be immortal, as it would mean seeing everyone they care about (Scootaloo, Sweetie Belle, AppleBloom, Little Cheese, etc) grow old and pass away.

Edited by JH24
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14 minutes ago, JH24 said:

Although it's understandable from an emotional perspective, would it really be right for Twilight to make her friends immortal? Even if such a spell existed it would be an abuse of power. Why only Twilight's friends? Why not others in Equestria? It would be an act others will inevitably frown upon. 

I'm not even sure the other Mane 6 would want to be immortal, as it would mean seeing everyone they care about (Scootaloo, Sweetie Belle, AppleBloom, Little Cheese, etc) grow old and pass away.

indeed, why not others in Equestria?

Really, it would depend on the method, wouldn't it? Perhaps freely shareable, perhaps limited in number, or perhaps only applicable to some. 

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8 minutes ago, JH24 said:

I'm not even sure the other Mane 6 would want to be immortal

I am not sure why someone wouldn't want to be immortal. I mean that is the same as wanting to die, maybe not right now but still.

And even if the Mane 6 are mortal, one of them will watch the rest 5 die, unless they get in an accident or whatever together.

12 minutes ago, JH24 said:

Even if such a spell existed it would be an abuse of power. Why only Twilight's friends? Why not others in Equestria? It would be an act others will inevitably frown upon.

Just like rich and powerful people in the real world can receive better health care than the rest (and would be the first ones to receive the cure for aging if one is ever developed), having powerful friends is also useful in Equestria (how much damage did the Mane 6 cause and got off easy? I wonder what would have happened if some random pony did that, not a personal student of Celestia or her friends).

As for the public - well they may be told that this is the side-effect of the Elements of Harmony. Or that this is the reward for saving Equestria multiple times.

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17 minutes ago, Pentium100 said:

I am not sure why someone wouldn't want to be immortal. I mean that is the same as wanting to die, maybe not right now but still.

There are reasons, most (but not all) relating to belief in an afterlife. Most forms of immortality are self-terminable, though - but it's easier when you don't have to make a choice.

18 minutes ago, Pentium100 said:

And even if the Mane 6 are mortal, one of them will watch the rest 5 die, unless they get in an accident or whatever together.

A solid point, though also mitigatable by afterlife beliefs.

And if the spell is generally applicable, it would be a quite evil act of the Mane's to hoard it.

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2 minutes ago, Latecomer said:

There are reasons, most (but not all) relating to belief in an afterlife. Most forms of immortality are self-terminable, though - but it's easier when you don't have to make a choice.

It would have to be real bad for me to choose the unknown over the known, especially if the choice is irreversible. If at all possible I would choose to not die. I think that Captain Jack got the best deal ever - not only he does not age, he can heal any injuries, including being blown up by 

 

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3 minutes ago, Pentium100 said:

It would have to be real bad for me to choose the unknown over the known, especially if the choice is irreversible. If at all possible I would choose to not die. I think that Captain Jack got the best deal ever - not only he does not age, he can heal any injuries, including being blown up by 

 

Indeed - laws of entropy means that whatever's beyond death, you'll find out eventually. And not many afterlives are limited time offers.

And Jack isn't as happy with it as you, I don't think - but the Whoniverse doesn't have any kind of decent afterlife, so he'd better keep at it. There are some clues he will die eventually, though.

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a bomb.

14 minutes ago, Latecomer said:

And if the spell is generally applicable, it would be a quite evil act of the Mane's to hoard it.

Well, maybe not everyone can cast it or it requires expensive ingredients.

 

Sorry for the double post, I accidentally pressed submit and for some reason was not able to edit the post (save button didn't work)

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2 minutes ago, Pentium100 said:

a bomb.

Well, maybe not everyone can cast it or it requires expensive ingredients.

 

Sorry for the double post, I accidentally pressed submit and for some reason was not able to edit the post (save button didn't work)

Then you research how to improve it's availability - and in the meantime, think carefully about who to give it too.

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2 minutes ago, Latecomer said:

And Jack isn't as happy with it as you

Well, it's like they say that money doesn't bring happiness - give me a few million Euros and I'll tell you if it made me any happier.

Make me immortal and I'll tell you how I like it in a few hundred or thousand years.

Other than that I'll continue to think that having lots of money or being immortal are great, especially if it doesn't come with significant downsides (like being unable to be in sunlight and having to drink blood for vampires or being immortal but still aging etc).

 

2 minutes ago, Latecomer said:

Then you research how to improve it's availability - and in the meantime, think carefully about who to give it too.

Yea, but I'm pretty sure it would actually be a closely guarded secret if such a thing existed in the real world...

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Just now, Pentium100 said:

Yea, but I'm pretty sure it would actually be a closely guarded secret if such a thing existed in the real world...

If it couldn't be shared widely, then maybe - but maybe not, since conspiricies are hard.

In Equestria - well once again, it depends on the method.

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2 hours ago, Latecomer said:

indeed, why not others in Equestria?

Really, it would depend on the method, wouldn't it? Perhaps freely shareable, perhaps limited in number, or perhaps only applicable to some. 

If there ever would be a spell or power capable of upsetting the balance between life and death, it would probably require a huge amount of magic or a heavy price to be paid. (Like in the video in this thread) If Twilight could do it, she would likely only be able to (I'm only speculating here) grant immortality to a few before reaching a limit. 

2 hours ago, Pentium100 said:

I am not sure why someone wouldn't want to be immortal. I mean that is the same as wanting to die, maybe not right now but still.

And even if the Mane 6 are mortal, one of them will watch the rest 5 die, unless they get in an accident or whatever together.

Just like rich and powerful people in the real world can receive better health care than the rest (and would be the first ones to receive the cure for aging if one is ever developed), having powerful friends is also useful in Equestria (how much damage did the Mane 6 cause and got off easy? I wonder what would have happened if some random pony did that, not a personal student of Celestia or her friends).

As for the public - well they may be told that this is the side-effect of the Elements of Harmony. Or that this is the reward for saving Equestria multiple times.

Immortality might be fun for the first few decades or century, but then you begin to realize that everything around you is temporary. You have to see your friends and family pass away. You'll make new friends, only for you to lose them again. It's a cycle that will keep repeating itself, until you reach a point you might not want to attach yourself to anyone any longer out of fear of losing them again.

For Twilight's friends immortality would be a curse and not a blessing. Twilight carries the burden of immortality (or a very long life) because she has accepted her role as leader of Equestria and resigned herself to it. It will be hard for Twilight, and she might be tempted to find ways to keep her friends around longer, but will eventually come to terms with it. Just like Fluttershy will prepare Discord for the idea or concept that she will eventually pass away, I can imagine Twilight's friends will be doing the same for her, as they would never want for them to be unhappy when they're gone. 

To be honest, I think Spike passing away will hit Twilight even harder, especially if her other friends are already gone. But dragons can get very old in this show, so it's possible Spike might actually outlive Twilight's reign (or even Twilight herself) 

---

There is a difference in seeing each other pass away in a normal life, and having to see others die from old age you weren't meant to (like Scootaloo or Little Cheese) because you weren't supposed to live this long.

Twilight telling her subjects the other Mane 6 living this long is a side-effect of the Elements could work but it would still feel like she's lying to everyone. I'm not sure Twilight or the Mane 6 would be comfortable with the idea.

 

Edited by JH24
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