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Books Would you advocate for book burning the entire Harry Potter series as a means of protest against JK Rowling?

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1 hour ago, Ganondox said:

I find it hilarious that the right thinks J. K. Rowling is going out for woke points among the left because the left HATES her. They say she’s a TERF, which means she’s against transpeople. So pretty much the exact opposite of how the right stereotypes her. 

I also found ironic that people complained Nagini for being Asian when the name Nagini is originally from Hinduism and “Naga”mean snake human in Indonesian. 

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TBH, I sincerely hate this day and age's fascination with "Cancel Culture" and or trying to boycott someone's entire life based on a couple things they have said and done.

Did I refuse to buy / play Borderlands 3 over what Pitchford apparently did? No, because the shenanigans of some CEO or what not doesn't affect the actual gameplay of the game.

Did I try to get Netflix burned to the ground when they tried releasing that movie / series "Dear White People"? No, because I honestly don't care that much about Netflix, and I have some african friends that laughed with me over them releasing that.

Am I going to start destroying all my HP books over JK saying "oh and this character is gay, this person is black, this person did this, that, X Y Z blah blah blah etc"? No

The internet needs to cut it out with this whole Cancel Culture thing

Edited by fare67t

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If you want to stop buying an author’s books because you don’t like them as a person, that’s up to you. If you want to deface the author’s material, then you’ve got a bigger problem than said author. Not only are you creating a personal grudge, you’re also giving the author publicity. People who are curious about the controversy will find out what upset you so much. They may turn on you worse than the author.

Edited by Yoshi89

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9 hours ago, TBD said:

I also found ironic that people complained Nagini for being Asian when the name Nagini is originally from Hinduism and “Naga”mean snake human in Indonesian. 

It actually doesn't, my brother is fluent in Indonesian and he complained a lot about that. He complained about J. K. Rowling's cultural appropriation from half-baked research in general, but he had a particular issue with that as he's personally involved with Indonesian culture. Nagas in Indonesia are just an important from India, and are generally portrayed as winged snakes, not as being half-human. The other area he really took issue with was with the depiction of America, both for the offensive mischaracterization of skinwalkers and the bizarre portrayal of America in the first Fantastic Beasts movies that showed no understanding of American Pragmatism. 

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On 10/30/2019 at 9:34 PM, Kiryu-Chan said:

Besides book burning being such a gross overreaction, looking at the """""Retcons""""" Rowling has made towards certain things, some of them get so ridiculous, it gets to the point where it just feels like she's purposely fucking with people

Seems like she's fallen into the same trap that George Lucas did.

Gay Dumbledore is VERY old news though. That's really causing a ruckus? NOW of all times? I don't see a problem with it though. AFAIK, it was something that was also part of her CANON, just never said outright. You can see hints of it in the films even though.

Retconning though? Yeah, that bothers me. I know she also said she regrets not pairing Harry and Hermoine together instead of Ron. Even though that would be the most unoriginal romantic story imaginable.

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27 minutes ago, Ganondox said:

It actually doesn't, my brother is fluent in Indonesian and he complained a lot about that. He complained about J. K. Rowling's cultural appropriation from half-baked research in general, but he had a particular issue with that as he's personally involved with Indonesian culture. Nagas in Indonesia are just an important from India, and are generally portrayed as winged snakes, not as being half-human. The other area he really took issue with was with the depiction of America, both for the offensive mischaracterization of skinwalkers and the bizarre portrayal of America in the first Fantastic Beasts movies that showed no understanding of American Pragmatism. 

I see it did mentioned “winged snake” and also half human half  snake. So *shrug* but even so Nagini would still consider as an Asian name. Because of it name and origin https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nāga

Either way,who gives a hoot about having Nagini as a Asian woman? I hated how people assumed that it’s gives her a “slave status” for being an Asian woman serving under a white male. My fucking god people, it is not like that at all. Nagini is consider as Voldemort closet companion. People should stop coming up dumb shit just because they’re simply just racist. 

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11 hours ago, TBD said:

Well if that person really want to stop a person (if one were to witness it)  from burning books then let them. It is their choice hence their rights. As long you don’t go “Batman” on them.

No its not your right to stop anyone from doing what they want with their property. Its going to require assault, theft, or damage of their property to stop it. You have NO right to touch someones property against their will let alone to stop them from doing what they want with it. 

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1 minute ago, Jedishy said:

No its not your right to stop anyone from doing what they want with their property. Its going to require assault, theft, or damage of their property to stop it. You have NO right to touch someones property against their will let alone to stop them from doing what they want with it. 

True, but you know people, they act out of impulse over logic.

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5 minutes ago, TBD said:

True, but you know people, they act out of impulse over logic.

That has nothing to do with anything. I replied to the person saying they with would put a stop to it, then you said: 
 

11 hours ago, TBD said:

Well if that person really want to stop a person (if one were to witness it)  from burning books then let them. It is their choice hence their rights.

And no its not their rights. You have no rights to touch the property or body of another person against their will. And no matter what emotional bs people want to use no one can justify infringing on the rights of others because they dont like how they use them or what they do with their property. 

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On 10/30/2019 at 1:28 AM, PCutter said:

I haven't even read the HP series yet. Maybe I'm interested but I'll decide if I want to read them later.

I also don't care much for all the recent controversies about the series.

But for everyone else, would you willingly burn every single HP book (all the way back to Philosopher's Stone) because of how she is now?

 

Update: Because many people hate Rowling now in the political sense, would it be reasonable to never buy her material again, both new books and copies of the HP series? And maybe stage a mob to "witch-hunt" her?

(cue crashing in late through the cealing followed by curseing in batpony about sleep flying) 
simple answer: No 

1st off, i grew up on the series so thier is a level of biased in favor for it. The series itself has been good, the movies after 7 part 2 have been all over the place, true but thats the thing about the two, everything the series has been trying to do that isnt harry potter has been hit or miss as a fan. 

Now to JK,  I do admit I'm annoyed she seems to have let WB flop around with her series but i cant be mad as she's really havnt shown "hey guys im doing this next for harry potter" 

so naturaly the followers are, oddly acting like us bronys 

put the pitchfork down, and keep reading, and the wand, and that spell, and pinkys cannon wait how did you- 

right now harry potter is in a gray limbo of this fan has an idea, so dose that fan, so dose that one that also has money......sounding familer? 

to the political sense side of things.....

If your mad at someones politics attacking thier fictional seires about a modern fantasy world, dose help you unless said FICTIONAL FANTASY WORLD is being used as an argument in said politics. 

If so burning shows your scared of them and they still made money becuse you first had to buy those books. 
Attack thier argument with a better one not a match, this isnt the 1800's 

Also plese read the books yourself its a fun treat to dive into at your own pace :) 

 

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21 hours ago, Jedishy said:

This is a very nice straw man question. One easily answered by my own statement on this very page if you bothered to look up.  

I don't care if it's a book that someone owns. That doesn't matter. It's the killing of ideas in the book that I find offensive. You don't like something or someone, so stamp them out? Where is the line drawn? Fight to have an author locked up if you don't like her words? Fight to...Kill her? What is the next step?

54 minutes ago, Jedishy said:

No its not your right to stop anyone from doing what they want with their property. Its going to require assault, theft, or damage of their property to stop it. You have NO right to touch someones property against their will let alone to stop them from doing what they want with it. 

You are going a long way to justify book burning. Why?

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@cuteycindyhoney

 

1. Nice slippery slope fallacy. Protest does not auto equal restrictions of rights or harming the person you are protesting 

2. You do not have the right to force your ideas on someone else via criminal acts which is what you are saying you would do 

3. What you find offensive does not give you any right to touch another person or their property against their will 

4. Nice strawman at the end. I never justified it, in fact I said I think its stupid personally. Saying someones right to do something should be protected does not mean you support what they do with it. Unless you are trying to say supporting freedom so speech makes you responsible for anything anyone ever says. 

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11 minutes ago, Jedishy said:

@cuteycindyhoney

 

1. Nice slippery slope fallacy. Protest does not auto equal restrictions of rights or harming the person you are protesting 

2. You do not have the right to force your ideas on someone else via criminal acts which is what you are saying you would do 

3. What you find offensive does not give you any right to touch another person or their property against their will 

4. Nice strawman at the end. I never justified it, in fact I said I think its stupid personally. Saying someones right to do something should be protected does not mean you support what they do with it. Unless you are trying to say supporting freedom so speech makes you responsible for anything anyone ever says. 

No stawman or anything. I literally HATE anyone that would burn a book. I think of them as sick deranged monsters. nothing you say will ever change my mind on this.

I am done in this thread.

Goodbye.

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5 minutes ago, cuteycindyhoney said:

No stawman or anything.

Yes you did. You claimed I justified it. Show me where. Show me where I justified it rather then what I did which was say stopping someone from doing what they wish with their property is wrong. Ill wait. 

6 minutes ago, cuteycindyhoney said:

I literally HATE anyone that would burn a book. I think of them as sick deranged monsters. nothing you say will ever change my mind on this.

Never tried to change your mind. I asked by what right do you think you have to use force against someone for an act that harms no one. 

Plenty of people think of bronies as sick deranged monsters for liking a " show for little girls " should they be able to " stop us " from watching the show? If you say no then its all special pleading, straw-men, and slippery slopes. IE no logic but just forcing your will on others because of feelings. 

 

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I don’t really see the point in this. It would only give them more attention. Also, I would have to first buy the books, which would give them money, so it doesn’t work.

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3 hours ago, TBD said:

I see it did mentioned “winged snake” and also half human half  snake. So *shrug* but even so Nagini would still consider as an Asian name. Because of it name and origin https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nāga

Either way,who gives a hoot about having Nagini as a Asian woman? I hated how people assumed that it’s gives her a “slave status” for being an Asian woman serving under a white male. My fucking god people, it is not like that at all. Nagini is consider as Voldemort closet companion. People should stop coming up dumb shit just because they’re simply just racist. 

That's talking about nagas in general, not the Indonesia variety. Remember, it's really an Indian thing, not a Indonesian one, there is just heavily Indian influence in Java and Bali. They mention a human form on Borobudur, but those aren't half-human, they're just human. I've been to Borobudur, I do not recall seeing any half-human half-snakes there, and I'm not seeing any come up on google. I do recall seeing some such statues in Cambodia. Different places take different aspects of the myths. 

People complaining about Nagini being Asian are dumb, but it's also kinda racist to just lump all Asians together. South Asians and East Asians are not related at all, not culturally or genetically. The casting decision does not need to be justified, especially because Rowling just digs her hole deeper with her attempts to justify her decision. 

I think it was dumb that they made her a human at all, she already had a backstory about being a particular sort of viper. if they really wanted to cast an Asian they should have invented it a new character, there was plenty of Asians in America at the time so no explanation would be needed for her race. I have no actually seen that movie though, so I can't judge how they actually pulled it off. 

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6 hours ago, Flutterstep said:

I don’t really see the point in this. It would only give them more attention. Also, I would have to first buy the books, which would give them money, so it doesn’t work.

Unless they steal the books from the stores in order to burn them.... then again the risk of going to jail shows it’s ugly head :fluttershy:

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No because I think protesting and burning shit and behaving like an idiot is a bit too extreme in any situation......  

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1 hour ago, Lucky Bolt said:

No because I think protesting and burning shit and behaving like an idiot is a bit too extreme in any situation...... 

Amen x3

But alas, this seems to just be a common occurrence in this day and age, people want to start a riot over every little thing.

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9 hours ago, Ganondox said:

That's talking about nagas in general, not the Indonesia variety. Remember, it's really an Indian thing, not a Indonesian one, there is just heavily Indian influence in Java and Bali. They mention a human form on Borobudur, but those aren't half-human, they're just human. I've been to Borobudur, I do not recall seeing any half-human half-snakes there, and I'm not seeing any come up on google. I do recall seeing some such statues in Cambodia. Different places take different aspects of the myths. 

People complaining about Nagini being Asian are dumb, but it's also kinda racist to just lump all Asians together. South Asians and East Asians are not related at all, not culturally or genetically. The casting decision does not need to be justified, especially because Rowling just digs her hole deeper with her attempts to justify her decision. 

I think it was dumb that they made her a human at all, she already had a backstory about being a particular sort of viper. if they really wanted to cast an Asian they should have invented it a new character, there was plenty of Asians in America at the time so no explanation would be needed for her race. I have no actually seen that movie though, so I can't judge how they actually pulled it off. 

Well we can agree then that Nagini is an Asian name.  When you say human form, Nagini could also be a snake at birth and can take form of a human. That’s also a theory HP fans are considering.  So it can go both ways. She can either be half and half as the the wiki said.. or as you said it Nagini could be a snake who can take form of an human. But to to be fair... nothing we know yet about this character. But it would make sense Now that that I think about.  if she’s actually a snake in a form of a human! I’m getting goosebumps thinking about it.

Quote

but it's also kinda racist to just lump all Asians together. South Asians and East Asians are not related at all,

"A female naga is a "nagi", "nagin", or "nagini". Nagaraja is seen as the king of nāgas and nāginis.[3] They are common and hold cultural significance in the mythological traditions of many South Asian and Southeast Asian cultures. "

"In Sanskrit the term naga literally means snake, but in Java it normally refer to serpent deity, associated with water and fertility. In Borobudur, the nagas are depicted in their human form, but elsewhere they are depicted in animal shape."

 

And if you know JK Rowling she takes things from facts and myth and put it together in a mix hence it’s called imagination.  I do not think her intention was to lump two Asians together.  She just wants to build a world based on her own imagination. 
 

To be more fair.. there isn’t enough backstory for Nagini to say she shouldn’t have been a human or take form of a human. We hardly know this character other then she’s a faithful companion to lord Voldemort. So if Jk Rowling wants to explore more on her then by all means go for it! For all we know Jk Rowling already named her Nagini so.. along the line she already know what she is doing before fantastic beast.

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Also, let me clarify something: best way to protest her views is not buying the books, however, I find that ridiculous as well as her books have nothing to do with her personal views 

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12 hours ago, Jedishy said:

That has nothing to do with anything. I replied to the person saying they with would put a stop to it, then you said: 
 

And no its not their rights. You have no rights to touch the property or body of another person against their will. And no matter what emotional bs people want to use no one can justify infringing on the rights of others because they dont like how they use them or what they do with their property. 

No one is trying to change everyone minds, rights or belief. But a little exposure of education won't hurt..

Doing what they think is right to them is not bs, now burning book just to justify something but means nothing.. now that's bullcrap. Whether you care or not, I'm just stating what it is. Which is if that person wants to step in to stop books from burning then that's their choice hence their rights too. It's not my place to tell them "no" if they wish to stop books from burning if it cringe them that much. Unless if they will put themselves or others at risk. Just because one side has rights doesn't mean the other side don't. I get that it's the person's property and rights to do whatever please them, hell they can fuck it for all I care. And I understand you highly respect one's right as you know we do that as well. Even if that burning a book also makes you cringe. But you made it sound like  that those who wishes to stop book from hellfire would go all extremist on that person doing that. If they wish to stop book from burning that's fine, they have rights to do so... as long they're not putting others or themselves in harms way and in an orderly fashion.

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3 hours ago, TBD said:

Well we can agree then that Nagini is an Asian name.  When you say human form, Nagini could also be a snake at birth and can take form of a human. That’s also a theory HP fans are considering.  So it can go both ways. She can either be half and half as the the wiki said.. or as you said it Nagini could be a snake who can take form of an human. But to to be fair... nothing we know yet about this character. But it would make sense Now that that I think about.  if she’s actually a snake in a form of a human! I’m getting goosebumps thinking about it.

"A female naga is a "nagi", "nagin", or "nagini". Nagaraja is seen as the king of nāgas and nāginis.[3] They are common and hold cultural significance in the mythological traditions of many South Asian and Southeast Asian cultures. "

"In Sanskrit the term naga literally means snake, but in Java it normally refer to serpent deity, associated with water and fertility. In Borobudur, the nagas are depicted in their human form, but elsewhere they are depicted in animal shape."

 

And if you know JK Rowling she takes things from facts and myth and put it together in a mix hence it’s called imagination.  I do not think her intention was to lump two Asians together.  She just wants to build a world based on her own imagination. 
 

To be more fair.. there isn’t enough backstory for Nagini to say she shouldn’t have been a human or take form of a human. We hardly know this character other then she’s a faithful companion to lord Voldemort. So if Jk Rowling wants to explore more on her then by all means go for it! For all we know Jk Rowling already named her Nagini so.. along the line she already know what she is doing before fantastic beast.

“Having an imagination” is not an excuse for not doing your research. My issue is less with her creative decisions and more with her asinine justifications for them. For example, you’re perpetuating a myth about Indonesian culture because you’re parroting her explanation rather than bothering to learn anything about Indonesian culture. 
 

You do realize that the Crimes of Grindelwald established a specific backstory for Nagini? I don’t understand what you’re trying to say with half your comment. 

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3 hours ago, Ganondox said:

. For example, you’re perpetuating a myth about Indonesian culture because you’re parroting her explanation rather than bothering to learn anything about Indonesian culture.

Did you just assumed I don’t even bother learning anything about their culture? Where in my comment did I show my arrogance about their culture?  I did however quoted from the wiki about Borobudur about a snake taking a form of human just as you said. So basically I’m showing my acknowledgment towards your insight about their culture when I wasn’t quite aware of it before
As I said before Jk Rowling did mentioned that Naga also mean winged serpent just as you said. So she isn’t all that ignorant with her researching. Moreover without thinking too hard about, snake taking a form of a human or vice versa, technically goes back to half and half.  Half and half doesn’t always mean by appearance but it can also mean by ability to shifting into one thing to another.  Taking a form of human won’t technically make you a complete snake now isn’t? I think that’s what JK Rowling meant with her explanation.

here is things she is right.

  • Naga means winged serpent and half human and snake in Hinduism and Indonesian 
  • Nagini is a mythical creature based Indonesia myth.

here what she didn’t specified. She didn’t mention anything that naga is an origin in India and only focus on the Indonesia. But that’s not really a big deal since she figure if she did, people would then debate something stupid like what kind of Asian Nagini is; Indonesian or Indian. 

Because if that, this lead to a huge confusion and having people think she wasn’t doing her research thoroughly.

The bottom line is this character  is based on Indonesian mythical creature.. “In Borobudur, the nagas are depicted in their human form, but elsewhere they are depicted in animal shape”Hance,  her name Nagini kinda give it away. So having her able to turn into a human was a not a huge surprise.

3 hours ago, Ganondox said:

“Having an imagination” is not an excuse for not doing your research

:maud:. A little reminder this is a fictional book we’re talking about. I hate to bring in my background in fiction writing, but every fiction writers knows that to make a story one take something out from something real or an experience and then expend it base on what they see fits. That’s where creativity comes in. It’s doesn’t have to be 100% accurate but if people are so fond with accuracy when it comes to facts and culture, then maybe fiction book isn’t for them. They might as well read a book about Indonesia culture and myths. That’s what Jk did with her story, she takes something from history and make into something she see fits. Does this mean she’s  lack researching? No.

3 hours ago, Ganondox said:

You do realize that the Crimes of Grindelwald established a specific backstory for Nagini? I don’t understand what you’re trying to say with half your comment

You said you haven’t seen the movie yet, so how would you that? Let give you some insight without spoiling. No they did not establish her backstory specifically. Other then that she’s curse and can turn into snake. They didn’t make it clear if she’s actually a snake that can take form of a human or vice versa but that is currently a fan theory. Aside from that, they did not cover her story just yet in the movie.

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5 hours ago, TBD said:

Which is if that person wants to step in to stop books from burning then that's their choice hence their rights too.

Umm no. Its not their right. You do not have a right to touch other people or property against their will. 

Lets apply your arguement to any other situation:
 

If someone want to just come into your house and take a nap its their choice so its their rights too

If someone wants to take your food and eat it, its their choice so its their rights too

 

5 hours ago, TBD said:

if they wish to stop book from burning that's fine, they have rights to do so..


You do not have any rights to stop other people from doing something legal. You do not have a right to violate the rights of others. And stopping someone from doing what they wish with their property requires one of the following 

property theft/damage 

assault 

trespass

All of which are criminal and morally wrong and not something you have a right to do 

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