PCutter

I defend Fluttershy in Putting your Hoof Down

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(edited)

People keep saying she's out of character for acting with hostility towards everyone and badmouthing Pinkie and Rarity, even when she regrets it all.

But here's what I say about this.

Do you know what it's like living your whole life, being scared to death because merely speaking your mind will make you public enemy number 1? That's me. I've let everyone else speak their minds and letting them silence me because I would be classified as rude and socially deviant for not following rules. When she badmouths Pinkie and Rarity, I related to her because I feel like lashing out at everyone for letting them trample over me all the time. So what if I regret it afterwards? I'm sick of being treated like I ave nothing worthwhile to offer. And I do have my own things to offer.

As Joker says, if I were dying right out on the street in front of you, you'd feel no sympathy since I'm just another nobody who doesn't matter.

I'm sorry if this is emotionally charged but I have to get this off, especially since Fluttershy is hated in this episode. I sometimes wonder if I ever will reach the point when I finally snap at someone.

Edited by PCutter
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Putting Your Hoof Down has never been a favorite of mine, but I totally see someone defending Fluttershy in it. She acts like a jerk and goes too far because that's the whole point of the episode. Other ponies around her do stupid and selfish things to provoke her so that we understand why she becomes a jerk herself. 

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@PCutter Shifting this to FiM Show Discussion as it focuses on the show's episode

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3 hours ago, PCutter said:

People keep saying she's out of character for acting with hostility towards everyone and badmouthing Pinkie and Rarity, even when she regrets it all.

But here's what I say about this.

Do you know what it's like living your whole life, being scared to death because merely speaking your mind will make you public enemy number 1? That's me. I've let everyone else speak their minds and letting them silence me because I would be classified as rude and socially deviant for not following rules. When she badmouths Pinkie and Rarity, I related to her because I feel like lashing out at everyone for letting them trample over me all the time. So what if I regret it afterwards? I'm sick of being treated like I ave nothing worthwhile to offer. And I do have my own things to offer.

As Joker says, if I were dying right out on the street in front of you, you'd feel no sympathy since I'm just another nobody who doesn't matter.

I'm sorry if this is emotionally charged but I have to get this off, especially since Fluttershy is hated in this episode. I sometimes wonder if I ever will reach the point when I finally snap at someone.

I feel that way sometimes too, particularly at work. Even if I’m just asking my boss if I can take on an extra shift, I worry that my boss will snap like they did at my sibling who tried to make a follow-up call to apply for the same job. 
 

I’m also a bit of a shy person too and fear that when I try to speak super intellectually that people won’t understand or take me seriously.

 

So I definitely understand that part of it. I also found the episode to be more of what happens when you reach your breaking point rather than a lazy OOC episode.

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Not sure.

Fluttershy thinks she is finding inner strength but in fact is taught how to be a jerk, and learns that being a jerk gets you RESULTS. This is a sad truth, but nevertheless is still a truth. Once she finally realises how much she is upsetting her friends, she swings the other way, condemning herself as a monster and locking herself away in her cottage. Finally she learns that the two extremes are not the only options she has - she can stand her ground without having to be aggressive or a jerk. She then has to re-learn that lesson in S8 because poor writing means re-using material :)

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(edited)
On 2/2/2020 at 12:44 PM, PCutter said:

When she badmouths Pinkie and Rarity,

IMO, she doesn't seem to really mean it so much as she's just on adrenaline rush that makes her want to pull insults out of her flank.

Edited by Anti-Villain
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Not a fan of this episode. While I can understand the desire to let loose on others, it is never a good thing. In fact, by doing so you're showing weakness by letting your emotions run loose rather than showing the strength that is restraint. This was definitely a moment of weakness for our kind pegasus. 

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#Stunning&Brave

 

 

Being a jerk myself, I like edgy Flutts. My own preferences aside, this edge should have been a prominent part of her personality, deeper characters and all that. And if some Brony from the Fee-Fee Police tries to stop you, just throw Starlight into their face and watch them start performing complex mental breakdancing. Then shoot them again with Discord.

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I agree 100%. I can also relate as I too have bottled up negative feelings sometimes and have led them out in the wrong way. This episode and Party Of One are actually the episodes that got me into the show.

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23 hours ago, PCutter said:

People keep saying she's out of character for acting with hostility towards everyone and badmouthing Pinkie and Rarity, even when she regrets it all.

But here's what I say about this.

Do you know what it's like living your whole life, being scared to death because merely speaking your mind will make you public enemy number 1? That's me. I've let everyone else speak their minds and letting them silence me because I would be classified as rude and socially deviant for not following rules. When she badmouths Pinkie and Rarity, I related to her because I feel like lashing out at everyone for letting them trample over me all the time. So what if I regret it afterwards? I'm sick of being treated like I ave nothing worthwhile to offer. And I do have my own things to offer.

I'm pretty sure you're supposed to get this kind of understanding - the episode spends a long time creating a hostile environment around her for a reason. Flying off the handle without significantt provocation would be OOC for her, after all.

 

20 hours ago, Dizzylis said:

Not a fan of this episode. While I can understand the desire to let loose on others, it is never a good thing. In fact, by doing so you're showing weakness by letting your emotions run loose rather than showing the strength that is restraint. This was definitely a moment of weakness for our kind pegasus. 

Well yeah. Also kind of the point.

 

 

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@PCutter We need more champion like you to protect this precious episode.:fluttershy:

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(edited)
On 2/4/2020 at 1:31 AM, Latecomer said:

I'm pretty sure you're supposed to get this kind of understanding - the episode spends a long time creating a hostile environment around her for a reason. Flying off the handle without significant provocation would be OOC for her, after all

 

 

 

On 2/3/2020 at 5:01 AM, Dizzylis said:

Not a fan of this episode. While I can understand the desire to let loose on others, it is never a good thing. In fact, by doing so you're showing weakness by letting your emotions run loose rather than showing the strength that is restraint. This was definitely a moment of weakness for our kind pegasus. 

 

On 2/3/2020 at 4:35 AM, CloudMistDragon said:

Putting Your Hoof Down has never been a favorite of mine, but I totally see someone defending Fluttershy in it. She acts like a jerk and goes too far because that's the whole point of the episode. Other ponies around her do stupid and selfish things to provoke her so that we understand why she becomes a jerk herself. 

 

On 2/3/2020 at 4:55 AM, CypherHoof said:

Not sure.

Fluttershy thinks she is finding inner strength but in fact is taught how to be a jerk, and learns that being a jerk gets you RESULTS. This is a sad truth, but nevertheless is still a truth. Once she finally realises how much she is upsetting her friends, she swings the other way, condemning herself as a monster and locking herself away in her cottage. Finally she learns that the two extremes are not the only options she has - she can stand her ground without having to be aggressive or a jerk. She then has to re-learn that lesson in S8 because poor writing means re-using material :)

Well this isn't the episode alone. From the very first episode, it would be already be implied that she was like that since day 1 like I have. I did not develop angry emotions out of the blue or for the sake of it. This episode for me is already one of the points where my patience and willing to tolerate others has reached its limit, and honestly, I sometimes don't care if I hurt someone.

She and I have always been hurting inside whether everyone knows it or not, and it's about time the a-holes in my past get what they deserve.

Those a-holes being, among others, former high school students and a shitty uni professor who says I only want to finish college just so I can flaunt my "wealth and status" instead of being a mature person and help my fellow human.
 

This is not her and I going OOC for some stupid reason. This is us reaching our breaking point after being pushed around and spat on all our lives and going Carrie-White-at-the-prom on everyone.

Edited by PCutter

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6 hours ago, PCutter said:

 

Well this isn't the episode alone. From the very first episode, it would be already be implied that she was like that since day 1 like I have. I did not develop angry emotions out of the blue or for the sake of it. This episode for me is already one of the points where my patience and willing to tolerate others has reached its limit, and honestly, I sometimes don't care if I hurt someone.

She and I have always been hurting inside whether everyone knows it or not, and it's about time the a-holes in my past get what they deserve.

Those a-holes being, among others, former high school students and a shitty uni professor who says I only want to finish college just so I can flaunt my "wealth and status" instead of being a mature person and help my fellow human.
 

This is not her and I going OOC for some stupid reason. This is us reaching our breaking point after being pushed around and spat on all our lives and going Carrie-White-at-the-prom on everyone.

And did it do her any good? Or did it just hurt her and her friends?

I don't know about the details of your situvion, but Fluttershy would have been better served by expressing her feelings reasonably rather than either bottling them up or lashing out.

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People just don't like episodes that portary their favs in a negative light even if that's the point of the episode.

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4 hours ago, RulesofRarity said:

People just don't like episodes that portary their favs in a negative light even if that's the point of the episode.

Best comment here so far despite being only a sentence long. Look at the sea of vitriolic comments made about 2, 4, 6, Greaaat and A Trivial Pursuit and you will see nothing but subjectivity > objectivity. :maud:

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5 hours ago, RulesofRarity said:

People just don't like episodes that portary their favs in a negative light even if that's the point of the episode.

Not wrong, but part of the point of FiM is that the characters need to explore and accept the more negative parts of their personalities if they are going to grow as individuals. i like to think that Hurricane Fluttershy helped Flutters move beyond her core of bitter resentment a bit, But not sure WHAT to think about her reaction on Best Night Ever.

I found the obviously oncoming train wreck in Fake It 'til you make it uncomfortable to watch on first viewing, but came to accept that Flutters was using Method Acting to mask her own insecurity, which left only the end sequence where she was aggressive to one of Rarity's critics as an unpleasing reminder of her attitude in Hoof Down.

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2 hours ago, CloudMistDragon said:

Best comment here so far despite being only a sentence long. Look at the sea of vitriolic comments made about 2, 4, 6, Greaaat and A Trivial Pursuit and you will see nothing but subjectivity > objectivity. :maud:

But those episodes kind of objectivly suck. Especially the first.

 

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11 hours ago, RulesofRarity said:

People just don't like episodes that portary their favs in a negative light even if that's the point of the episode.

Fluttershy is my favorite but I personally like alter ego Flutters as well

6 hours ago, CloudMistDragon said:

Best comment here so far despite being only a sentence long. Look at the sea of vitriolic comments made about 2, 4, 6, Greaaat and A Trivial Pursuit and you will see nothing but subjectivity > objectivity. :maud:

Am I the only one who likes 2,4,6,Greeaaat?

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(edited)

I consider the episode being very true at dipicting Fluttershy's character. It explores her deepest fear in a way that makes sense, and makes a logical extention of her pre-established character and archetype. One of my deepest fear (and also sometimes being ironically fascinated by the concept) is to be mean to my closest people around me in the worst way possible. It's a sick and pungent feeling, but you keep exploring it like watching a trainwreck.

This episode is one of the truest, deepest character dissection of Fluttershy imo. And unlike Rainbow Dash's and Applejack's, this episode manages to explore her character by showing her negative side, and it works.

Is everything about this episode good? Maybe not. Is this episode completely pleasant? Definately not. But I like it that there are moments that feels like crossing the line and fundamentally wrong while completely being aware of it and playing around it. It did sonething truely mean and demonstrated malice to tell a story. Isn't that great? It explored an area with a risk and at least it wasn't fake or invalid or uninspired. It could have been done better, but I think more episodes should have done what this episode did.

Edited by Sepul-Coloratura

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4 hours ago, Latecomer said:

But those episodes kind of objectivly suck. Especially the first.

 

I'm pretty sure even Rob Walker was joking when he said, "IT IS OBJECTIVELY BAD!". :kirin: 

1 hour ago, ExplosionMare said:

Fluttershy is my favorite but I personally like alter ego Flutters as well

Am I the only one who likes 2,4,6,Greeaaat?

You're not alone, I am sick of people complaining about that episode like it was an attack on their soul. :yeahno:

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10 minutes ago, CloudMistDragon said:

I'm pretty sure even Rob Walker was joking when he said, "IT IS OBJECTIVELY BAD!". :kirin: 

You're not alone, I am sick of people complaining about that episode like it was an attack on their soul. :yeahno:

It maybe had a few good moments in? And I don't think it was the actual worst episode in the show?

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6 hours ago, ExplosionMare said:

Am I the only one who likes 2,4,6,Greeaaat?

I don't like it, but I don't dislike it? its a pretty meh episode, but its not alone in that. The point of no return was a significantly worse episode in the same season.

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2 4 6 was OK by me, a bit tedious, but I really liked the cheer!

4 hours ago, CypherHoof said:

 The point of no return was a significantly worse episode in the same season.

heh, i loved that one and saw it as a huge throwback on s1/s2 twilight ^_^

Instead of seeing the overall appeal of an episode and it's plot especially I like to focus on the positive things I like even if it is just the catchy song Giddy up, Derby racers! :)

Then again, everyone has a different taste, and I think it is nice that some people see something in or like an episode others do not! I personally dislike when people dismiss episodes just because somepony acts "OOC" for their taste. What's the fun of the ponies always acting foreseeable? :ooh:

I personally liked this episode, I think it was also executed well - Unlike Fake it Til you Make It.

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11 minutes ago, Bas said:

heh, i loved that one and saw it as a huge throwback on s1/s2 twilight

Again, I don't hate it, its a "meh" episode for me. Fake it is a S8 episode of course, and while I do appreciate Futters' adorable ponysonas, I feel they nerfed a great deal of Flutters' personal development to make the plot, as they do with her pointless panic attack at the start of 2 4 6.

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8 hours ago, CypherHoof said:

I don't like it, but I don't dislike it? its a pretty meh episode, but its not alone in that. The point of no return was a significantly worse episode in the same season.

What was that one about? I kind of forgot. Is it the Mage Meadowbrook one?

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