general Why can girls act boyishly but boys cant act girlish?

[Muffinnz 3,219]

Why can girls act boyishly but boys cant act girlish?

[aoEAF2FBvC0MIo2Q 3,671]

Define "girlish" and "boyish". The "-ish" suffix also implies a boundary. When does it become too boyish or girlish?

[Kamii 594]

It's not so much that boys can't act girlish... I have seen many little boys who are into girlish things like TV series, toys, topics... But once they become t(w)eens, it seems to fade away pretty quickly. It doesn't seem to happen the same way with girls. I think both are acceptable tho, it's probably just a societal norms problem.

[Dawnchaser 🌄 8,087]

3 minutes ago, Kamii said:

just a societal norms problem.

Agreed, if my wife were to wear any of my clothes, thats okay, but if I was to put on anything of hers....

[EpicEnergy 22,072]

I will address two things:

1) Girls actually can't act "boyish". Video games, sports, the military, trucks, and weigh lifting are a few things that are considered for boys only. Additionally, it is considered weird for a girl to act tough, to do crazy things like a boy, and to engage in "messy" activities like sports.

2) The reason boys can't act girlish is because, as @Kamii mentioned, societal norms and expectations. Society has a definition of what a man should be, and therefore anything different is looked down upon, especially acting like the opposite gender.

[ExplosionMare 18,007]

Cause being feminine has always been considered weak since women are always viewed as less than men. When women act masculine they act “more like men” so in a strange way they’re “stronger”? I’m not honestly too clear about the logic myself.

10 minutes ago, EpicEnergy said:

I will address two things:

1) Girls actually can't act "boyish". Video games, sports, the military, trucks, and weigh lifting are a few things that are considered for boys only. Additionally, it is considered weird for a girl to act tough, to do crazy things like a boy, and to engage in "messy" activities like sports.

2) The reason boys can't act girlish is because, as @Kamii mentioned, societal norms and expectations. Society has a definition of what a man should be, and therefore anything different is looked down upon, especially acting like the opposite gender.

Ironically everyone always asks me if I’m a gamer despite my gender (which is true cause I am a gamer). I think it has more to do with my age group though since a lot of people my age like to game.

[SharpWit 2,472]

@EpicEnergy I very much disagree with your sentiment. While those things are male dominated, video games are regularly played by both sexes, there are sports teams for both (Lower viewership for the women's category I think is due to the performance not reaching the same heights in most settings), women all over the planet are willing to serve their country in the armed forces, trucks are luxury and utility vehicles, and weight lifting is just a form of working out. The only way girls can't act boyish is in the fact that none of these things are truly guy specific.

While many places and people discourage men from acting feminine, another part of them not doing so is that many of the things they do are neutral when you take a deeper look at them, and ignore the fact that women were being told they couldn't participate for much of our history.

Girls can act boyish because it's really just being allowed to act normal for the most part. Boys usually can't act girlish because it's having to behave a specific way, i.e. assigned arbitrary gender roles.

[Here No Longer 5,270]

Because social norms are sexist plain and simple.

[Bastian 13,319]

Because humans are stupid and like to get into other people's lives.

[Thuja 3,658]

It's the toxic masculinity...

[Here No Longer 5,270]

2 minutes ago, Thuja said:

It's the toxic masculinity...

Unfortunately, the sexism isn't just one way. But it's definitely at its worst against feminine men.

[Luna the Great of all the Russias 2,697]

Speculation on how masculine women was normalized but feminine men was not:

The man is seen as the career-oriented gender whereas the woman is seen as the child-raising gender. This is not mere arbitrary gender roles as it based on the biological reality of man and woman; the man of the family has an inherent advantage in pursuing a career as the amount of time a woman spends in raising a family is time not spent advancing her career. This is a non-factor for husbands and wives who have no plan to start a family, but it is a relevant issue for those who do.

The fact that women were disproportionately fulfilling a domestic role was not considered desirable and it was believed that women ought to act more like men so to speak; that is women ought to pursue a career more instead of a family. Perhaps this push to have women focus more on careers was based on the underlying assumption that marriage was a system in which men exploited women so it was best for women to be as financially independent as possible. So for a woman to be like a man was deemed desirable, and so for women to act like men was normalized as a by-product.

There has not been a similar political movement, or at least not one that was nearly as significant, that insisted that men ought to be more like women so to speak. When the domestic role is claimed to be one of exploitation by the spouse, why would anyone want to become a house-wife/house-husband? So without any movement to have more men take on domestic roles, there was no by-product of normalizing feminine men.

[aoEAF2FBvC0MIo2Q 3,671]

4 hours ago, EpicEnergy said:

I will address two things:

1) Girls actually can't act "boyish". Video games, sports, the military, trucks, and weigh lifting are a few things that are considered for boys only. Additionally, it is considered weird for a girl to act tough, to do crazy things like a boy, and to engage in "messy" activities like sports.

2) The reason boys can't act girlish is because, as @Kamii mentioned, societal norms and expectations. Society has a definition of what a man should be, and therefore anything different is looked down upon, especially acting like the opposite gender.

Are these really your views or are these just what you think describe the present state of affairs? 

Edited March 2, 2020 by Remnants
Grammar

[ExplosionMare 18,007]

2 hours ago, Bas said:

Heh, girls are meant to be (in our society) like lil, innocent princesses, being cute, not being able (or actually DOING) to do things, being dependent on others. Strive away from that...and you land in a territory where females simply doesn't fit what it expected to be from them.

I feel like people definitely want me to be like that, especially at work. The job I’m at requires a bit of muscle so most people there are relatively big yet I’m tiny. People keep pointing it out and it’s embarrassing 

[Brony Number 42 9,925]

Masculinity is not toxic. 

[TBD 17,228]

People mentioned it's because society, but i think it also got to do with the personal fear of what other's expect or think of you, more or less. Yeah the society shaped the humans mind that there's a clear gender's differences but it up for that one person to decided not to follow it. No society can tell you that you can't wear make up when you're a guy or that you can't wear jean when you're a girl. (unless we're a talking about a strict cultures but that's another story)  It just take guts to reject the social norms expectation on gender or when it said otherwise, and be who you wanted to be.

Now another question is why can boys likes girls things without being called "gay". That's a big issue here. I think this stereotype is unfair for the boys, because no one called a girl "lesbian" when she likes boys things. The bottom line is, people should never assume someone sexual orientation just because they likes something from a opposite sex. That's discriminating.  

[Rainbow Cloud 16,290]

Mostly as has been said before that it's seen as being against societal norms and some people can be unplesant if you go against said norms.

Toxic Masculinity is not a real thing though, it's just human nature that people are unpleasant to others, most of the people who've made derogotory remarks about my masculinity in the past were not men and I wasn't even doing anything that would be considered unmasculin at the time either.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Rainbow Cloud

[ziddersroofurry 25]

To those saying 'masculinity is not toxic' you're missing the point. Toxic masculinity is a separate idea from masculinity. Masculinity is fine as long as it doesn't become toxic. 

So when people call something an example of toxic masculinity if you're masculine and not being toxic you're fine. 

Here's the definition of Toxic Masculinity-https://www.tolerance.org/magazine/what-we-mean-when-we-say-toxic-masculinity

"Toxic masculinity is a narrow and repressive description of manhood, designating manhood as defined by violence, sex, status and aggression. It’s the cultural ideal of manliness, where strength is everything while emotions are a weakness; where sex and brutality are yardsticks by which men are measured, while supposedly “feminine” traits—which can range from emotional vulnerability to simply not being hypersexual—are the means by which your status as “man” can be taken away."
 

"Discussing toxic masculinity is not saying men are bad or evil, and the term is NOT an assertion that men are naturally violent."

[Luna the Great of all the Russias 2,697]

20 minutes ago, ziddersroofurry said:

To those saying 'masculinity is not toxic' you're missing the point. Toxic masculinity is a separate idea from masculinity. Masculinity is fine as long as it doesn't become toxic. 

So when people call something an example of toxic masculinity if you're masculine and not being toxic you're fine. 

Here's the definition of Toxic Masculinity-https://www.tolerance.org/magazine/what-we-mean-when-we-say-toxic-masculinity

"Toxic masculinity is a narrow and repressive description of manhood, designating manhood as defined by violence, sex, status and aggression. It’s the cultural ideal of manliness, where strength is everything while emotions are a weakness; where sex and brutality are yardsticks by which men are measured, while supposedly “feminine” traits—which can range from emotional vulnerability to simply not being hypersexual—are the means by which your status as “man” can be taken away."
 

"Discussing toxic masculinity is not saying men are bad or evil, and the term is NOT an assertion that men are naturally violent."

If that is toxic masculinity, how would non-toxic masculinity be defined?

Violence, sex status, and aggression? It depends. If a man is so attractive that he has a wide selection of potential female partners, that would seem to me an indication of a successful man in this dimension. And a man who has aggressive and violent traits can be useful when we speak of situations such as those that are high in stress as the man would have the will to survive it or if they are in a leadership position in which they can ensure people are disciplined. These traits are not inherently positive nor negative, they are tools to be used and perhaps a measure of success can be by the number of people one is able to have voluntarily cooperate with them.

Then I wonder if those who use the notion of toxic masculinity is actually pointing to failed masculinity? I often hear the point that criminals tend to not have had a father and that father figure role has been filled in by criminals. 

On the link posted, I am highly skeptical of the claim that male and females are essentially negligibly different. It strikes me that the underlying belief here is that there is no such thing as human nature and every single one of us for at least some hundreds of thousands of years have been propagandized to behave the way we do; but we were not born as a blank slate.

[EpicEnergy 22,072]

21 hours ago, SharpWit said:

I very much disagree with your sentiment.

To clarify, I don't hold to those ideals. I think that video games, sports, the military, trucks, and weight lifting can both be for girls and boys, but I am describing the way society views those things.

21 hours ago, SharpWit said:

video games are regularly played by both sexes

True, but that doesn't mean that society today doesn't say video games are mainly just a boy thing.

21 hours ago, SharpWit said:

there are sports teams for both (Lower viewership for the women's category I think is due to the performance not reaching the same heights in most settings)

I probably should have been more specific when I said sports. The main sports that are viewed as a boy-only thing are hockey, football, and baseball. You don't see many girls playing those sports.

21 hours ago, SharpWit said:

women all over the planet are willing to serve their country in the armed forces

They might be willing, but the problem comes down to the way society views the military - as a thing that is meant for men to enter into.

21 hours ago, SharpWit said:

trucks are luxury and utility vehicles

A guy luxury, as society views it.

21 hours ago, SharpWit said:

weight lifting is just a form of working out

I still think it is a guy thing according to society.

18 hours ago, Remnants said:

Are these really your views or are these just what you think describe the present state of affairs? 

No, I don't hold to those views. I am just describing the way society views things.

[SharpWit 2,472]

@EpicEnergy Thank you for clarifying.

[Luna the Great of all the Russias 2,697]

22 hours ago, Angel_Dust said:

social norms

23 hours ago, EpicEnergy said:

Society

22 hours ago, Bas said:

society

On 3/1/2020 at 5:12 PM, Kamii said:

societal norms

6 hours ago, Rainbow Cloud said:

societal norms

Numerous users basically said that society establishes societal norms. But this does not really answer anything; all that I am getting is that society is some mysterious other entity that arbitrarily defines societal norms.

Explicitly, who is being referred to when mentioning society (as much as I assume users here do not see it this way, the notion of society seems to be treated here as if it were an independent entity that acts on its own will)? Who defines what is or what is not societal norms? Why has something become a societal norm and is it merely arbitrary or rational?

 

Edited March 2, 2020 by Luna the Great of all the Russias

[Rainbow Cloud 16,290]

2 hours ago, Luna the Great of all the Russias said:

Numerous users basically said that society establishes societal norms. But this does not really answer anything; all that I am getting is that society is some mysterious other entity that arbitrarily defines societal norms.

Explicitly, who is being referred to when mentioning society (as much as I assume users here do not see it this way, the notion of society seems to be treated here as if it were an independent entity that acts on its own will)? Who defines what is or what is not societal norms? Why has something become a societal norm and is it merely arbitrary or rational?

 

Not sure if I mean it to mean the same as everyone else but human society and culture is what it is and has evolved to be throughout history, people expect men to behave like men and women to behave like women, but are generally more tolerant of women who behave in a more masculine way than the opposite which may be hypocritical but it is what it is.

I tend to conform with the norm more than go against it, but like everyone I'm an individual and cannot be put in one box as I do have interests or traits that do not follow the norm.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Rainbow Cloud

[Splashee 28,537]

On 3/1/2020 at 9:40 PM, Muffinnz said:

Why can girls act boyishly but boys cant act girlish?

You mean boys aren't allowed to act like girls, or do girly things?

It depends on who's watching. In private, I am sure boys do all kinds of odd things.

 

Girls, I don't know. There is a tomboy category. But even so, I don't think they even come close to being boys, doing boyishly (wow, that really is a word!) things. I am an expert on girls so...

[The Historian 515]

6 hours ago, Rainbow Cloud said:

Toxic Masculinity is not a real thing though, it's just human nature that people are unpleasant to others, most of the people who've made derogotory remarks about my masculinity in the past were not men and I wasn't even doing anything that would be considered unmasculin at the time either.

Toxic masculinity is a very real thing, but not in the way that most people think. Genuine toxic masculinity is the expectations placed on men and boys that are detrimental to their health and well-being. Things like not showing emotion or must be independent at all times. No matter how damaging they might be, the expectation is there. And that... is incredibly toxic.