Why The Redemption Of Villains In MLP Should've Stopped

[KH7672 1,604]

17 hours ago, YoungJustice12334 said:

but I just rewatched the Fame and Misfortune episode, and here's my reasons on why I hated it:

Wait what does that episode have to do with redemption of villains? I don't see how that corresponds to the topic or at all what I was talking about. Well except for:

17 hours ago, YoungJustice12334 said:

I also found the episode to be a staple of the pride and hubris of the later show-runners. I still didn't like Starlight and she served no purpose to the narrative, and could've been easily replaced with Spike

I can name a few reasons why this works. One of the biggest is the lessons in the journal came from Season 4. Starlight wasn't in Season 4 and Spike was including providing lessons in it from Power Ponies and Inspiration Manifestation, ergo the readers would have a warped sense of view on him as well. Starlight is an outsider of the book and free to intervene without being criticized by the readers. I also feel the actions given to her fit her personality more. When she says she's going to have "a chat" with someone she's upset with, the audience can feel intimidation more due to her character than if Spike the baby dragon said it. I personally would've liked if they found a way to write Spike out of the episode logically but honestly it's not that big of a deal and there are much more important reasons to criticize the episode beyond her inclusion. It does not really hurt or help her reformed status just treating her like one of the Mane 6's friends, which while not the best executed overall in the series and smartly strayed away from in later Seasons to build her identity more, wasn't that out of place here in the overall context of the series or season.

[StormyVenture 29]

Some of the problems I see with the redemption of villains are whether there is enough of episode time/a plot arc to explain background, intermediate period/immediate problem. And then how probable, sensible the cause/effect are of whatever change in heart is supposed to happen. At least with Fluttershy and Discord there was sort of an ongoing dynamic tension. After all he's the self-styled? "Lord of Chaos" so he's not exactly going to become a perfect, orderly goody two-shoes, but he can be persuaded not to be as wantonly antagonistic.

I'm not sure what to make of Chrysalis and Sombra, I guess they're irredeemable villains? However the way Starlight is treated vs Cozy Glow seems kind of skewed...

5 hours ago, Singe said:

Neighsay wasn't really a villain. He just had opposing view points and concerns given the prior history, that the show never addressed. Plus he was holding Twilight accountable for mismanagement. I think he was made to play on the current political climate at that time.

For what it's worth he could have been a villain, not every single one needs to be cataclysmic world ending matter, but they already had Cozy Glow.

He didn't seem to be holding Twilight accountable so much as just generally being a lead weight saying that things needed to be the way they'd always been and she had to bend to the way of doing things that he was in charge of. I mean it's right in his name (neighsayer -> a person who criticizes, objects to, or opposes something). Heck the guy was even a total speciest from the start. If the "friendship school" had been less of a gag act... And then once she was out of the picture temporarily, he tried to take over the school and was going to kick out non-ponies.

https://mlp.fandom.com/wiki/Chancellor_Neighsay#Depiction_in_the_series

Edited May 17, 2020 by StormyVenture

[YoungJustice12334 51]

On 5/16/2020 at 10:50 PM, KH7672 said:

Wait what does that episode have to do with redemption of villains? I don't see how that corresponds to the topic or at all what I was talking about. Well except for:

I can name a few reasons why this works. One of the biggest is the lessons in the journal came from Season 4. Starlight wasn't in Season 4 and Spike was including providing lessons in it from Power Ponies and Inspiration Manifestation, ergo the readers would have a warped sense of view on him as well. Starlight is an outsider of the book and free to intervene without being criticized by the readers. I also feel the actions given to her fit her personality more. When she says she's going to have "a chat" with someone she's upset with, the audience can feel intimidation more due to her character than if Spike the baby dragon said it. I personally would've liked if they found a way to write Spike out of the episode logically but honestly it's not that big of a deal and there are much more important reasons to criticize the episode beyond her inclusion. It does not really hurt or help her reformed status just treating her like one of the Mane 6's friends, which while not the best executed overall in the series and smartly strayed away from in later Seasons to build her identity more, wasn't that out of place here in the overall context of the series or season.

I just wanted to talk about how bad the Fame and Misfortune episode was, and Starlight didn't add anything to the plot in my opinion, I hated how Starlight takes the spotlight of the other characters. The Cutie Re-Mark Part 2 was fine, until we actually get to Starlight's "backstory" for how she became so twisted...and it turns out to all be because of some old friend from her childhood getting his cutiemark first and moving away.

That's it?? Seriously?! Not only was that one of the lamest excuses for Starlight's motive as a villain, but to then see Starlight immediately become completely forgiven and accepted by everybody upon restoring the timeline, and not just by Twilight and the rest of the Mane 6, but also by the exact same Equality town villagers that Starlight emotionally/mentally abused & controlled for who knows how long?...it just totally ruined the rest of the finale for me, unfortunately, and MLP Going forward after that.

After Starlight's terrible redemption, she continuously got on my nerves for how she kept unfairly stealing the spotlight from other characters, always gets excused for her bad actions despite how disturbing and wrong they can get at times (like the whole brainwashing crap in "Every Little Thing She Does"), and on her own just feels too much like a watered-down, generic-brand version of Unicorn Twilight leaving little else for me to enjoy about her. 

[KH7672 1,604]

7 hours ago, YoungJustice12334 said:

I just wanted to talk about how bad the Fame and Misfortune episode was, and Starlight didn't add anything to the plot in my opinion, I hated how Starlight takes the spotlight of the other characters. 

I mean it's no problem, it's your thread I guess. Still I'd hate to turn this thread into discussing just Starlight's character for those others who may be want to take part in the initial topic discussion of redemption on other villains. I'd be happy to do so but just let me know if it's fine to do so here or if you'd rather take this specific discussion elsewhere, even personal messages if you want.

[Singe 2,109]

On 5/16/2020 at 11:06 PM, StormyVenture said:

He didn't seem to be holding Twilight accountable so much as just generally being a lead weight saying that things needed to be the way they'd always been and she had to bend to the way of doing things that he was in charge of.

In the first two episodes of the season, Neighsay did hold Twilight accountable for the mismanagement of her school and the new Mane 6 accident.

He's an obstacle with an opposing view, but hasn't done anything deceptive, underhanded, or abuse of their power against Twilight and co. Just having an opinion that challenges or goes against the main characters own opinion isn't enough to warrant a character as a villain.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Singe