Why do you think girls like ponies?

[Latecomer 441]

48 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

It wasn't so much of a girls' thing than it was one woman's thing. MLP was created by Bonnie Zacherele who was fascinated with horses.

 

Not exactlu on her own initiative - although she suggested it, it wasn't until her bosses at Hasbro already wanted such a thing that she was able to proceed. So the market had to be there. 

[ShadOBabe 19,059]

56 minutes ago, Super Splashee said:

Like the Wild West and cowboys. Yea, makes sense! And that was not so long ago either.

Yup! And if you go much further back you've got even more examples.

You've got the Huns, who were mind-bendingly amazing horsemen.

You've got the classic image of knights in shining armor on their mighty war horses.

You've got Alexander the Great, who has an entire story attributed to him about being the ONLY man that could tame the untamable horse, Bucephalus.

The original Pegasus of Greek myth was captured and ridden by the legendary hero, Bellerophon.

[Goat-kun 2,532]

3 hours ago, Latecomer said:

Not exactlu on her own initiative - although she suggested it, it wasn't until her bosses at Hasbro already wanted such a thing that she was able to proceed. So the market had to be there. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonnie_Zacherle

1 hour ago, Bas said:

Really, the whole topic is an example of gender roles, honestly. The only reason one gender prefers such a thing as much is it because it is told to and expected from them, starting with birth already, basically.

Think about it this way, given any species on the world, like cats, do you think there is much of a difference what  a male cat likes vs what a female likes? It is all made up.

There can't possibly be any link between behavior and biological sex If anything here is an obvious product of indoctrination, then it's your own opinion.

[Pentium100 2,343]

2 hours ago, Bas said:

Really, the whole topic is an example of gender roles, honestly. The only reason one gender prefers such a thing as much is it because it is told to and expected from them, starting with birth already, basically.

There are differences due to biology (there are always exceptions, but we are talking averages here). Think of it in evolutionary terms. For millions of years men went out to hunt, while women looked after the children. So, a strong man who can get food for the tribe probably got more women than someone who couldn't kill a single animal. Also, during various conflicts between tribes, men usually went to fight because men were more "expendable" than women. In addition, if there was a tribe who was completely pacifist, they most likely got killed by a more aggressive tribe. Women are more picky when selecting a partner as well, since the "wrong" choice is much riskier for a woman than a man.

That has an effect on the genes. So, now we have men, who are on average more aggressive than women (more men are in prison for violent crimes than women, more men beat their vies than women beat their husbands). We also have women who are on average more interested in people and not things, so they choose a profession that is more people-oriented. For example, I do not see a lot (or any) female electricians, plumbers, road workers, builders. When I was studying electronics in University IIRC there were two girls and something like 50 guys. I really really doubt that all those places are so sexist and do not accept women.

I agree, there is some pressure for boys and girls to "behave", like "boys don't cry" etc, however, there are still actual differences between the sexes when it comes to behavior.

Also, there are a lot of different animal species where males and females behave differently.

[Pentium100 2,343]

7 minutes ago, Bas said:

It already starts with women are supposed to watch the children

Because women are not as expendable. However, yes, we are slightly off topic, but I'd like to give you this link for reading about an experiment of turning a boy into a girl - it didn't work.

https://boredomtherapy.com/reimer-gender-reassignment/

And now we are back on topic with girls and (real or cartoon) ponies. I guess in the past horses were seen as cars and tractors are today - for men to do actual work, but now horses are more seen as toys for the rich (though they are still used in farms).

[Splashee 28,602]

*Watches as @Pentium100 and @Bas engages in what looks like a debate*

 

I guess by the title of this thread, mentioning ponies instead of horses, maybe the question is more about MLP toys? I would say that most girls grew out of MLP toys kinda quickly, back in the day. The age group is kinda accurate. Well, until the Bronies showed up.

[Pentium100 2,343]

Just now, Super Splashee said:

I guess by the title of this thread, mentioning ponies instead of horses, maybe the question is more about MLP toys?

I think that this was supposed to be about real ponies, because there is that stereotype that girls like ponies and probably the first MLP was created because of that, then again, it may be as a result of MLP.

[Latecomer 441]

4 minutes ago, Pentium100 said:

I think that this was supposed to be about real ponies, because there is that stereotype that girls like ponies and probably the first MLP was created because of that, then again, it may be as a result of MLP.

I would say the idea predated and inspired MLP.

[Goat-kun 2,532]

1 hour ago, Bas said:

Yes, but what you described could all have been just made up by society and gender roles as well. It already starts with women are supposed to watch the children.

I want to point out if there is a genetic advantage or leaning to something for sexes towards something, it will get reinforced by gender roles at least: You are of the same sex, so you are supposed to be like this. Be like this.

Women are having more switching sex partners than men do.

It isn't required to be sexist, but gender roles can simply raise or deny expectations people have of someone, or of yourself. It can be something innocent like Electricity is a man's job! or Girls don't do dirty work or be technicians.

 

Then again, we slightly went off topic with this one.

Ignoring my birds, eh. But they are so awesome, and now I'm peeved. Let's do this like real shitlords. Have you ever thought that male/female behavior dichotomy is a form of communication? Gender roles are a form of non-verbal communication and males of our species do expect certain patterns when it comes to females and vice versa. That is how such behavior gets reinforced, but at its core there are biological differences between sexes that cause expected differences in behavior to appear in the first place. So this is basically a game about the chicken and the egg "muh patriarchy" edition, and nature represents the house. Et pur si muove.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK222297/

One of the largest differences between females with CAH and their unaffected sisters is in their activities: it is characteristic of girls with CAH to play with boys' toys in childhood and to be interested in boys' activities in adolescence (Berenbaum, 2000; Berenbaum and Snyder, 1995; Ehrhardt and Baker, 1974).

*congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH), a genetic disease in which the fetus is exposed to high levels of androgens beginning early in gestation

Spoiler

Sex-Typed Behavior and Gender Identity

Discussions about the determinants of human sex-typed behavior, especially gender identity, have recently become highly visible because of scientific and popular accounts of a prominent case (Colapinto, 2000; Diamond and Sigmundson, 1997). The case challenged the established belief that individuals are born with the potential to develop male or female gender identity and that the specific gender identity can be determined exclusively by sex of rearing (Hampson and Hampson 1961; Money and Ehrhardt, 1996; Money et al., 1955; reviewed in Grumbach and Conte, 1998). For detailed reviews and discussions, see Bradley et al. (1998), Colapinto (2000), Diamond and Sigmundson (1997), Fausto-Sterling (2000), Kessler (1998), Wilson (1999), and Zucker (1999).

The case involved a boy (46,XY karyotype) with male-typical development whose penis was ablated after a mishandled circumcision and whose gender was subsequently reassigned and reared as a female. Contrary to early reports, the child never adjusted to the female assignment, despite having no knowledge of his early history. Sex reassignment was requested, and the individual is now reported to live successfully and happily as a man. Because this individual is a normal genetic male who was exposed to male-typical hormones in prenatal and early neonatal life, this case lends credence to the view that gender identity is determined by early hormones that act on the developing brain and argues against the view that rearing sex is the main determinant of gender identity (Diamond and Sigmundson, 1997; Grumbach and Conte, 1998).

The conclusion, however, must be considered in light of other details of this case and other cases. The individual described above (Diamond and Sigmundson, 1997) was reared unequivocally as a boy at least until age 7 months, when the accident occurred, and perhaps longer, because the final decision about female reassignment was not made until his second year and surgery was not completed until age 21 months. Furthermore, the outcome for another individual with an ablated penis was very different: after an accident at age 2 months, another child was reassigned as a female at age 7 months and has reportedly adapted well to this identity. As an adult, she shows no evidence of gender dysphoria, although she has a male-typical occupation and a bisexual orientation (Bradley et al., 1998).

Ongoing studies with boys with cloacal exstrophy (malformed or absent penis with normal testes) who are reared as girls should help to provide systematic evidence about the determinants and malleability of gender identity. These boys are usually reassigned as girls because of concerns about adjustment problems associated with inadequate male genitalia. Preliminary reports from an ongoing systematic study (Reiner, 2000) indicate that more than half of these female sex-assigned XY children identify as boys, consistent with their male-typical prenatal androgen exposure, and not with their female-typical rearing. Interestingly, however, some of these children continued to accept their female assigned sex, so it will be important to determine what differentiates children with male identity from those with female identity, despite their common 46,XY chromosome constitutions. This is clearly an area deserving of further investigation.

Spoiler

Prenatal Androgens and Sex Differentiation of Human Behavior

There is now good evidence that human behavioral sex differences are influenced by sex hormones present during prenatal development, confirming findings from studies with other mammalian species (described in Chapter 3). These hormones act by “organizing” neural systems that mediate behavior later in life. Much of the evidence about the behavioral effects of prenatal sex hormones comes from individuals with clinical conditions that alter these hormones (so-called experiments of nature), although in recent years there has been confirming evidence from studies with individuals with circulating concentrations of hormones in the normal range. The following section provides an illustration of work done in this area; for detailed reviews of hormonal influences on human behavior, see Berenbaum (1998), Collaer and Hines (1995), Hampson and Kimura (1992), and Wilson (1999).

Prenatal androgens alone do not determine behavioral sex differences. Social and environmental factors undoubtedly contribute to differences between males and females, but the focus of this section is on genetic and physiological factors. Rather than considering physiological-hormonal and social explanations as being mutually exclusive, however, it is important to think about how they might operate in concert to produce behavioral sex differences. For example, biologically influenced traits may affect an individual's response to the environment or the way that the individual is treated by others; such effects have been demonstrated in other species (Clark and Galef, 1998; Fitch and Denenberg, 1998).

Studies of Females with Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia

The evidence for hormonal influences on human behavior is illustrated with findings from studies of females with congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH), a genetic disease in which the fetus is exposed to high levels of androgens beginning early in gestation (Grumbach and Conte, 1998; Miller, 1996; White et al., 1987). If sex differences in human behavior are affected by the levels of androgens that are present during early development, then females with CAH should be behaviorally more masculine and less feminine¹ than a comparison group of females without CAH (the best comparison group consists of the unaffected sisters of females with CAH because they provide a control for general genetic and environmental backgrounds). Indeed, females with CAH do differ from their sisters in sex-typed behavior (for a detailed description, see Berenbaum [2000]).

One of the largest differences between females with CAH and their unaffected sisters is in their activities: it is characteristic of girls with CAH to play with boys' toys in childhood and to be interested in boys' activities in adolescence (Berenbaum, 2000; Berenbaum and Snyder, 1995; Ehrhardt and Baker, 1974). For a variety of other behaviors, the differences between females with CAH and their unaffected sisters are almost as large as the differences between typical males and typical females. This includes interest in babies (Leveroni and Berenbaum, 1998), reported likelihood of using aggression in conflict situations (Berenbaum and Resnick, 1997), and spatial ability (Hampson et al., 1998; Resnick et al., 1986). Other differences between females with CAH and unaffected females are smaller relative to the difference between typical males and typical females. For example, most girls with CAH prefer girls as playmates (Berenbaum and Snyder, 1995), and most women with CAH are exclusively heterosexual in terms of their sexual fantasy and arousal characteristics (Zucker et al., 1996), although some do prefer boy playmates and some have bisexual fantasy and arousal characteristics. The differences are even smaller for gender identity: only a very small minority of females with CAH have male-typical gender identity or are gender dysphoric (Ehrhardt and Baker, 1974; Meyer-Bahlburg et al., 1996; Zucker et al., 1996). This is consistent with the idea that male-typical gender identity requires a higher level or different timing of exposure to androgen than is characteristic of that for females with CAH, rearing as a male, or exposure to other genetic or hormonal factors unique to or more common in males, for example, the SRY gene.

Limitations of Studies of Females with CAH

Females with CAH do not provide a perfect test of the behavioral effects of exposure to androgens early in gestation because they differ from their unaffected sisters in a number of ways that might affect behavior. Of particular importance from a social perspective is the fact that females with CAH have masculinized genitalia, and it is possible that their masculinized behavior results from the treatment of these girls by their parents in response to their physical appearance (Quadagno et al., 1977). Recent evidence, however, renders this explanation unlikely: the amount of time that girls with CAH spend playing with boys' toys is linearly related to their degree of prenatal androgen excess, as inferred from the degree of genetic mutation, and it decreases (rather than increases) when a parent is present (Nordenstrom et al., 1999; Servin, 1999).

Convergence of Evidence

Given the limitations of studies of females with CAH, it is important to seek a convergence of evidence across methods for the behavioral effects of hormones. Findings from studies of females with CAH have been confirmed from other “experiments of nature” and from studies of samples of typical (non-CAH) individuals. For example, girls who were exposed to masculinizing hormones because their mothers took medication (androgenizing progestins) during pregnancy are more likely than their unexposed sisters to report that they would use aggression in conflict situations (Reinisch, 1981). Males with reduced androgen levels because of an endocrine condition called idiopathic hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (IHH) have lower levels of spatial ability than controls; within the group of men with IHH, spatial ability correlated with testicular volume and did not improve with androgen replacement therapy (indications that the low level of spatial ability was associated with low levels of androgen early in development and not at the time of testing) (Hier and Crowley, 1982).

Converging evidence for these special cases has come from studies of normal individuals with typical variations in prenatal hormone levels. For example, 7-year-old girls who had high levels of testosterone in utero (determined from measurements of the concentrations in amniotic fluid at 14 to 16 weeks of gestation) had faster mental rotation (an aspect of spatial ability) capabilities than girls who had low levels of prenatal testosterone (Grimshaw et al., 1995), and females with a male twin appear to be more masculine than females with a female twin on several traits, including sensation seeking (Resnick et al., 1993), spatial ability (ColeHarding et al., 1988), and auditory characteristics (McFadden, 1993). Gender-specific behavior in young adult women has been suggested to be related to their exposure to sex hormones during the second trimester of fetal development (Udry et al., 1995). Although some of these studies are imperfect, the limitations are different from those of studies of individuals with CAH.

 

[Sepul-Coloratura 765]

Keep going people, as the OP I approve of all this and this was the kind of discussion I was trying to get. Non of this is off topic as far as I know.

[Latecomer 441]

7 hours ago, Sepul-Coloratura said:

Keep going people, as the OP I approve of all this and this was the kind of discussion I was trying to get. Non of this is off topic as far as I know.

well here's what you get if you ask Google.

 

https://www.npr.org/2011/02/09/133600424/why-do-girls-love-horses-unicorns-and-dolphins

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskWomen/comments/2d0csv/why_do_little_girls_seem_to_love_ponies_and/

https://www.fatherly.com/health-science/why-do-girls-like-horses-penis-envy-freud/

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-women-girls-like-horses-ponies-so-much

[Evil Pink One 13,556]

I blame everything for everything for making everything EVERYTHING!

Edited April 20, 2020 by Kujamih

[EpicEnergy 23,255]

It's not just ponies, but also horses. I'm not exactly sure why they like them though.

[Splashee 28,602]

They were told to, by society, just like they should be pretty princesses

[ExplosionMare 26,638]

Cause some of them like horse riding and taking care of horses

[Splashee 28,602]

3 hours ago, ExplosionMare said:

Cause some of them like horse riding and taking care of horses

But why not do many boys do the same?

 

Yes because some of them like car driving and taking care of cars

[ExplosionMare 26,638]

8 hours ago, Splashee said:

But why not do many boys do the same?

 

Yes because some of them like car driving and taking care of cars

I think it’s just society’s general opinion about it

[Bastian 13,321]

Because people like what they like and that's it?