Why The Show's Tendency to Redeem its Villains Never Bothered Me

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,543]

This is not in response to anyone in particular, but one complaint I hear about FiM is that it went too far in redeeming its villains. While I can somewhat understand why those people feel the way they do, I respectfully disagree.

It never bothered me that many of the show's villains were redeemed. Mostly because it was in line with the main tenets of the show. Everybody has the capacity to do good and be good. While not everyone acts on that capacity, enough of them do that it's worth mentioning. The show is literally titled "Friendship is Magic". It's only natural that the series would have a generally optimistic viewpoint when it comes to people and life.

Moreover, in most cases, the villains Express remorse and/or are shown to progress and develop in later appearances. To me, this promotes the idea that people are capable of change and that a person doing something bad doesn't always translate to them being bad.

Now, I'd like to mention that not EVERY villain was redeemed in the series, which refers to my earlier point that not everybody acts on their capacity for good. So when the opposit happens, it stands out more.

This is all, however, just my opinion and I'm sure many of you will disagree. But I welcome any agreement and/or disagreement, so long as you're respectful about it.

Edited May 14, 2020 by TheAnimationFanatic

[Will Guide 21,325]

You're right. Not every villain was redeemed. Sombra, cozy glow, tirek and chrysalis. They weren't redeemed. A lot of your post made a lot of sense

And even though the Flim Flam Brothers were part of the calvery who saved our heroes, that doesn't automatically mean that they're pure good now. They likely will still go back to conning ponies like they usually do and just be their usual jerky selves. But even they know when overpowered villains are going too far and need to be stopped. it's one thing to con ponies out of their money but to actually do something that could destroy the world and leave no one to con, that wouldn't make sense.

[Latecomer 438]

6 minutes ago, TheAnimationFanatic said:

This is not in response to anyone in particular, but one complaint I hear about FiM is that it went too far in redeeming its villains. While I can somewhat understand why those people feel the way they do, I respectfully disagree.

It never bothered me that many of the show's villains were redeemed. Mostly because it was in line with the main tenets of the show. Everybody has the capacity to do good and be good. While not everyone acts on that capacity, enough of them do that it's worth mentioning. The show is literally titled "Friendship is Magic". It's only natural that the series would have a generally optimistic viewpoint when it comes to people and life.

Moreover, in most cases, the villains Express remorse and/or are shown to progress and develop in later appearances. To me, this promotes the idea that people are capable of change and that a person doing something bad doesn't always translate to them being bad.

Now, I'd like to mention that not EVERY villain was redeemed in the series, which refers to my earlier point that not everybody acts on their capacity for good. So when the opposit happens, it stands out more.

This is all, however, just my opinion and I'm sure many of you will disagree. But I welcome any agreement and/or disagreement, so long as you're respectful about it.

I'd say the amount of redemption overall in the show was quite balanced. What's contentious is the specifics - which villains were redeemed and how.

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,543]

Just now, Latecomer said:

I'd say the amount of redemption overall in the show was quite balanced. What's contentious is the specifics - which villains were redeemed and how.

The ones that they went with mostly made sense in my opinion. 

[Sepul-Coloratura 756]

I think it's not just about whether they are redeemed or not but how they are redeemed. When they are redeemed, some of them falls into the same thing and most of them have not so good reasons behind them. (examples are Starlight and Tempest) Everybody has excuses.

I liked Discord's redemption. I was looking forward to the three bad guys to redeem themaelves in season 9 and I was disappointed that they didn't. I liked Gilda's redemption because it was a good story. Not a fan of Diamond Tiara's redemption because it was such an aftertgought and a rush. Not a fan of Garble's redemption because it was not such a good story and a far fetched relation with Smolder. I was quite skeptical about how even a child ended up in hell in season 8. Not that she didn't deserve it or it was unnecessary but how the whole thing ended up in a pessimistic conclusion, especially for a children's show.

There has been many villains in the show and their fate is either to be put down or be redeemed. I don't mind either way as long as it's good story.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Sepul-Coloratura

[Megas 27,062]

My problem is that most of them are really bad. Discord gets worse the more the show went on, Trixie and Glimmer started out bad, but only got better as time went on(and even then, Trixie was only brought back to make everyone like Glimmer by attaching a popular character to her), Sunset needed an entire movie after the fact tor work, less said about Garble, Caballeron and Ahuizotl, the better.

Then you get the Legion of Doom, it sounded like they were actually building up to one properly. Then you know that Grogar Twist happened and everything just goes to hell afterwards

Ones that were good, like Gilda or Diamond Tiara, never got to do anything afterwards.

[nightshroud96 116]

49 minutes ago, Megas said:

My problem is that most of them are really bad. Discord gets worse the more the show went on, Trixie and Glimmer started out bad, but only got better as time went on(and even then, Trixie was only brought back to make everyone like Glimmer by attaching a popular character to her), Sunset needed an entire movie after the fact tor work, less said about Garble, Caballeron and Ahuizotl, the better.

Then you get the Legion of Doom, it sounded like they were actually building up to one properly. Then you know that Grogar Twist happened and everything just goes to hell afterwards

Ones that were good, like Gilda or Diamond Tiara, never got to do anything afterwards.

What do you think about Luna's reformation there?

[Thrond 3,257]

At its best it could seem like extending empathy towards someone who just needed a push in the right direction. Trixie, Diamond Tiara, and Tempest Shadow are all pretty straightforward examples of this. Starlight Glimmer was a bit more awkward, but I thought that led to some really weird and interesting implications; there was a lot of room to speculate on exactly what was wrong in her life to make Sunburst leaving such a problem. When it works I like it enough that I wish more villains got that treatment; I always felt that moulding Lightning Dust into something like Rainbow's equivalent of Trixie would have been a more interesting path for her. 

Season 9 actually brought me to a point that I might have accepted Chrysalis, Tirek, and Cozy Glow embracing friendship, but they never had too much in the way of redeeming qualities and were so fun as villains that I didn't mind their ultimate fate too much. Discord never really stopped being a jerk, but I enjoyed watching him a lot of the time, and his friendship with the ponies and Spike was often interesting. 

I think these attempts to redeem the villains were at their worst in Equestria Girls - most of the later villains have no apparent redeeming qualities, so it's baffling to see the girls extend an olive branch to them. That series could have used some of the discretion seen in Friendship is Magic. I'll admit that I also found Tempest Shadow uninteresting, but she had sympathetic qualities so I'd rather she be reformed than not. In general I'm in favour of it, for the simple optimism of thinking people are capable of change if nothing else. 

Edited May 14, 2020 by AlexanderThrond

[TBD 17,228]

While I like my villains to stay villains, MLP villains I don't mind at all when it come to redemption. Most of them are done right and developed in the right direction.  While we can say they deserve to be punish, MLP is about forgiveness and giving a second chance.  I think having them struggling internally with regrets and guilt is a good ideal 'punishment' for them. I believe King Sombra, Cozy Glow and Queen Chrysalis will have a fair chance to get a good redemption. Tirek and Grogar (if he's canon) not so much. 

As for Discord, well he's just being Discord. 

[Will Guide 21,325]

21 minutes ago, TBD said:

, Cozy Glow and Queen Chrysalis will have a fair chance to get a good redemption. Tirek and Grogar (if he's canon) not so much. 

As for Discord, well he's just being Discord. 

well better to be turned to stone than flat-out killed so there's always a chance they might come back

[Misty Shadow 7,084]

The tendency to redeem the villains used to bother me, but now, not so much. Trixie, the Flim-Flam Brothers, and Discord all never really changed and I actually liked Starlight Glimmer better after she was reformed. Counting Equestria Girls, Sunset Shimmer is far more memorable as a "good character". Besides the obvious four, the Mean 6, the Sirens, the Mane-iac, the Pony of Shadows (not Stygian), Daybreaker, Nightmare Moon, the Storm King, and the Windigos are also all still evil. The tendency to redeem the villains also does not just stem from the fact that it's for kids, you see this with all sorts of popular franchises like Dragon Ball and Jojo. Fans get attached to villains and don't want to believe they're all bad, the crew catches on, so begin the redemption arcs. I think the dislike for redemption arcs generally comes more from the fact that a lot of fans don't actually want their favorite villain to become good. They just want them to be explored more so that they have more of a reason to like them. However, since the morality of MLP is clearly black-and-white, not shades of gray, it is pretty much impossible to satisfy fans of the villains this way. Though I myself am not satisfied with the current state of every villain in the franchise, I just like to roll with what I get.  

[Goat-kun 2,498]

The time for blogs is over. We wait now for the final judgment.

[Splashee 28,537]

13 hours ago, TheAnimationFanatic said:

Now, I'd like to mention that not EVERY villain was redeemed in the series

Do you think the show staff did that on purpose because the fanbase got mad about all the reformations?

 

I see that the villains that were left evil at the end of the show were done that way to please the fandom. It is kinda easy to see it that way because the show was ending. Before the show ended, there was always a chance all the villains would become good, if the fans had not screamed "stop reforming the bad guys!!".

 

I don't see a problem in the reformation, except for when the villain was short lived and had no purpose than to bring one single episode to life.

[ChB 18,532]

Agreed.  I think they balanced the redemption arc really well, even in the early seasons.

[Castle Bleck 19,166]

Ironically, despite IDW Sombra's redemption, his villain traits (pragmatic, serious, etc.) struck me as more consistent than S9 Sombra's (reckless, showy, etc.).

And it helped that the former actually did something redemption-worthy (self-sacrifice) first, a step that certain other characters got flak for skipping.

Edited May 16, 2020 by Antagonist

[RDDash 18,859]

The redemption of characters got annoying at some point. Let's feel sorry for a shadow pony/stygian because he was misunderstood. Let's feel sorry for a cultist pony because her childhood friend abandoned her. Let's feel sorry for an Storm army right hoof henchpony because well children made fun of her disability. ( She was a traitor, but it's okay.) 

Edited May 16, 2020 by RDDash
Might have posted in the wrong topic

[Rushing cash 824]

I think they balanced the reformations pretty well, and while some reformed villains\antagonists needed more attention after the reformation(Diamond tiara never spoke again, tempest was just a movie character, neighsay, gilda, stygion to name a few) the few we did focus on were enjoyable(although I wish discord remained like he was in season 4, at least in season 9 it was shown that he is still manipulative and scheming, even though he did this with good intentions) and maybe they could have done a better job with them in hindsight what we got is really good in my opinion. EG on the other hand, overdid it by quit a bit though. 

As for the major villains:

• Nightmare Moon- its up to the fans interpretation, its unclear what NMM is to luna, but I would say that luna reformed(she did want to kill celestia before she turned into NMM) but NMM was obliterated and not reformed.
• Discord- reformed but remained chaotic, to some degree serves as an anti-hero.
• Chrysalis- remained evil and turned to stone.
• King Sombra- turned to dust, stayed evil.
• Tirek- unreformed, turned to stone.
• Starlight Glimmer- Reformed.
• Pony of shadows- just like with luna and NMM, its up to your interpretation what the shodow is, I think the shadow embodiment itself was sent to limbo(and stayed evil I guess) while stygion reformed.
• Tempest- reformed.
• Storm king- stayed evil and turned to stone and was destroyed.
• Cozy Glow- remained evil.

So, out of the big bads, 3 got reformed, 2 are complicated, and 5 stayed evil(its not that bad really). There are other minor villains like the mean 6 and the windigoes that remained evil too, not to mention other antagonists.

[Latecomer 438]

5 hours ago, Rushing cash said:

(although I wish discord remained like he was in season 4, at least in season 9 it was shown that he is still manipulative and scheming, even though he did this with good intentions)

His failiure to grow is what makes his redmption feel wasted.

[Rushing cash 824]

1 hour ago, Latecomer said:

His failiure to grow is what makes his redmption feel wasted.

I can understand that, but I prefer discord as more neutral, not really an alley, so I think his best season(excluding the finale) is season 4(with season 9 as his second best). 

[Latecomer 438]

43 minutes ago, Rushing cash said:

I can understand that, but I prefer discord as more neutral, not really an alley, so I think his best season(excluding the finale) is season 4(with season 9 as his second best). 

Sadly, he's too dangerous to allow loose like that.