Bendy

What if the next generation is woke garbage?

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27 minutes ago, Misscellanio said:

They got flamed? Really?

It is impossible to please everyone, because people have mutually-incompatible opinions. You can do anything you want (including doing nothing) and there will be people who hate you for it. And that extends not just to politics, but everything else as well. Go on, try to think of something that would please everybody :oh_golly:

32 minutes ago, Misscellanio said:

Personally, haven’t seen any show like this yet so I doubt it. 

Watch Doctor Who (the latest episodes where a woman plays the Doctor. They even had an episode where a character, who essentially was Trump, was called out for wanting to kill huge spiders that infested his building. The spiders were shown as simple animals mind you (not like humans etc).

Or the new Ghostbusters movie (a remake of an old movie, but all main characters are women, that was its selling point). 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Pentium100 said:

It is impossible to please everyone, because people have mutually-incompatible opinions. You can do anything you want (including doing nothing) and there will be people who hate you for it. And that extends not just to politics, but everything else as well.

I know that already, I was just saying I'm surprised cuz I haven't seen anyone say anything like that about EQG. 

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(edited)
16 minutes ago, Rainbow Cloud 🌈 said:

If the message is subtle and doesn't interfere with the story I might still watch it but if not then I'll just stick with G4 and ignore the new.

The problem for me is there isn't any nuance or subtlety with political messaging in media anymore, no showing different points of view, no showing that both sides may have good and bad points, no finding balance, compromise or cooperation and not leaving it up to the audience to make up their own minds at times.

Exactly. There's no middle ground.  Is just black and white morality. 

Edited by Bendy

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(edited)

Entertainment was never politically impartial. Every artist has their own worldview that they want to present in their art. In this post-modern era of entertainment, we’re beginning to see new forms of political displays. Artists are just providing social commentary on the current issues. The only problem with this is that the current political landscape is extremely polarised, so any sort of political message nowadays is instantly branded as “virtue signalling” or “extremist” and met with negativity. Because people are so firm in their beliefs nowadays (thanks to the rise of the internet), entertainment will be met with harsh criticism from either side of the political spectrum for “having the wrong opinion.”

I’ll watch G5 even if it “pushes an agenda,” I don’t really care, as long as the show is good. In 10 years we’ll see new forms of political messages in our entertainment, and maybe the world won’t be so angry then. 

Edited by Mini

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And this is why I like anime! Because while they still push and agenda occasionally it's much less common than western forms of media! 

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(edited)
7 minutes ago, Mini said:

Entertainment was never politically impartial. Every artist has their own worldview that they want to present in their art. In this post-modern era of entertainment, we’re beginning to see new forms of political displays. Artists are just providing social commentary on the current issues. The only problem with this is that the current political landscape is extremely polarised, so any sort of political message nowadays is instantly branded as “virtue signalling” or “extremist” and met with negativity. Because people are so firm in their beliefs nowadays (thanks to the rise of the internet), entertainment will be met with harsh criticism from either side of the political spectrum for “having the wrong opinion.”

In 10 years we’ll see new forms of political messages in our entertainment, and maybe the world won’t be so angry then. 

There's things I hate on both sides of the spectrum. You got religious people on the right and then you got communists on the left. I hate both groups.  I'm not sure where I stand politically since these people exist and I dislike them. I've learnt to tolerate them a lot more but I still dislike them.

And not everything in entertainment (or was) is force-feeding you political messages. I watched the entire series of Jackie Chan Adventures and I never saw any political messages. It was just a fun cartoon show with magic, demons, and Jackie Chan.

Edited by Bendy

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17 minutes ago, Pentium100 said:

It is impossible to please everyone, because people have mutually-incompatible opinions. You can do anything you want (including doing nothing) and there will be people who hate you for it. And that extends not just to politics, but everything else as well. Go on, try to think of something that would please everybody :oh_golly:

Watch Doctor Who (the latest episodes where a woman plays the Doctor. They even had an episode where a character, who essentially was Trump, was called out for wanting to kill huge spiders that infested his building. The spiders were shown as simple animals mind you (not like humans etc).

Or the new Ghostbusters movie (a remake of an old movie, but all main characters are women, that was its selling point). 

 

 

Yeah a lot of that stuff is just pureeee bullsheit 

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1 minute ago, Bendy said:

There's things I hate on both sides of the spectrum. You got religious people on the right and then you got communists on the left. I hate both groups. And not everything in entertainment (or was) is force-feeding you political messages. I've been watched the entire series of Jackie Chan Adventures and I never saw any political messages. It was just a fun cartoon show with magic, demons Jackie Chan.

I haven’t seen that show so I can’t say for sure. But I’m confident in saying that I could probably find a political message somewhere in that series. You might not have noticed any political message because the show came out in the early 2000s. The ‘political issues’ of the early 2000s are much different than the ones now and you probably aren’t concerned with them anymore; that’s why you might not have noticed any political messages.

Although you could be right, it could just be a show about magic, demons and Jackie Chan.

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I would rather not even have a G5. You can't recreate that magic, not for another 15 year or so. 

As for political messaging (shoving down your throat) I like to just see a story. Look at The Dragon Prince and She Ra And The Princesses of Power. Both have woke messaging, but DP does it ham handed and awkwardly. It is painfully obvious what they are doing. The story is generic and the setting feels like a teenager's first D&D campaign.

She Ra, on the other hoof, is believable; subtle yet clear at the same time. The character develpoment sits on top of a good cartoon. 

Too bad I'm a sucker for animation.

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2 minutes ago, Mini said:

I haven’t seen that show so I can’t say for sure. But I’m confident in saying that I could probably find a political message somewhere in that series. You might not have noticed any political message because the show came out in the early 2000s. The ‘political issues’ of the early 2000s are much different than the ones now and you probably aren’t concerned with them anymore; that’s why you might not have noticed any political messages.

Although you could be right, it could just be a show about magic, demons and Jackie Chan.

If there was political messages, it wasn't in your face about it. Problem is entertainment does not know how to be subtle anymore.

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2 hours ago, Bendy said:

Except when I watch the Lord of the Rings I don't see references to modern things whatsoever. It is completely fictional.  Can you tell me the profound political messages found in Bill and Ted? Bill and Ted is just a silly movie about two rock music fans with a time machine.

If there are political messages in these two things they are at least very subtle. Subtle, very hard to do these days.

It depends on the person. I remember people claiming they would never watch LotR because of some sort of political or religious context. Can’t comment on Bill and Ted as I never heard of that film.

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42 minutes ago, Misscellanio said:

I know that already, I was just saying I'm surprised cuz I haven't seen anyone say anything like that about EQG. 

I recall some freaking out because an official live action dance video of Rainbow Rocks because Rarity was portrayed by a black girl :unsure:. But surprisingly, it was so minor because it died down by the next day :dash: (probably because most of us didn’t care for those live action EG promos :mlp_yeehaa:)

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(edited)
On 5/18/2020 at 9:19 AM, Jeric said:

I enjoy the hell out of Duck Tales and enjoyed Steven Universe, and both had elements of progressive social commentary that some would call woke,

Just having said elements isn't automatically "woke garbage."

But if it's used to dismiss critics as "bigots," overshadows the actual storytelling, etc., then it is.

Edited by Antagonist
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1 minute ago, Antagonist said:

Just having said elements isn't automatically "woke garbage."

 

Well, nothing technically is a qualifier for that since there really isn't a structured criteria for what is "woke" and what is "garbage" and what is "woke garbage". Nebulous is as nebulous does, but yeah some have called Duck Tales SJW propaganda because of various character changes. 

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1 hour ago, Jeric said:

Well, nothing technically is a qualifier for that since there really isn't a structured criteria for what is "woke" and what is "garbage" and what is "woke garbage". Nebulous is as nebulous does, but yeah some have called Duck Tales SJW propaganda because of various character changes. 

I think that what would qualify something as 'woke garbage' is the lack of subtlety...

2 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

It depends on the person. I remember people claiming they would never watch LotR because of some sort of political or religious context. Can’t comment on Bill and Ted as I never heard of that film.

And this is a good example. Not only because it is not 'modern', but mostly because one couldn't point their finger at anything in particular and say that it came from christian belief or whatever. In contrast to something that is clearly drawn out, such as elements in Captain Marvel, that people have called out as blatant points of political/social agenda.

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2 minutes ago, Metemponychosis said:

think that what would qualify something as 'woke garbage' is the lack of subtlety...

In general, I find when a story decides to be too “on the nose” about any subject  it is a staple of poor writing techniques. Or rather when there isn’t a second layer under the obvious one. All in the Family was a great example of using characters to impart obviously crafted social messages along side more subtle ones, and it’s long been considered one of the better sitcoms of TV. That’s usually my litmus test for how you should approach social commentary in a narrative.  

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3 hours ago, Misscellanio said:

There’s nothing wrong with being topical as long as they do it in a meaningful strategic way. Have a pony that looks like Donald trump and talks like them and says “we need to build a wall” is very cringe so if you mean going that far, then I would have a problem with that. 

Even that though depends how you pull it off and the overall tone the show is going for. Especially with the idea that a political reference doesn't HAVE to be real world political depending on how you characterize them.

Spoiler

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I'd say the Amazing World of Gumball pulled it off well with their mayor keeping a non-politically charged caricature portrayal. Then again that's why it was referred to at times as "South Park" for kids.

 

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1 hour ago, Pathfinder said:

It depends on the person. I remember people claiming they would never watch LotR because of some sort of political or religious context. Can’t comment on Bill and Ted as I never heard of that film.

 

1 hour ago, Jeric said:

Well, nothing technically is a qualifier for that since there really isn't a structured criteria for what is "woke" and what is "garbage" and what is "woke garbage". Nebulous is as nebulous does, but yeah some have called Duck Tales SJW propaganda because of various character changes. 

Aright, I had enough of this fence-sitting play pretend and I want to go whaling. I invoke Jacobellis v. Ohio!

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But given how galaxy brained I am I'm once again invoking Jacobellis v. Ohio and countering your counter with a counter before any countering has taken place!

MAGAdemia.thumb.png.72a73046a0391b6e53c34650d5ffcf6f.png

This is also propaganda. Propaganda doesn't bother me. I enjoy watching Squirrel and Hedgehog. It's a good laugh. What I can't stand is how one side is clearly being propped up by the "authoritative" sources and powerful companies, and milquetoast fence sitters are going full equal mode like Napoleon the Pig. Notice how MAGA is not Marvel or DC, but all woke garbage is being made by the companies you've grown up with. Propaganda isn't a problem. Lies and censorship are a yuuge one. Everyone likes different things. Guess what guys? We filthy right-wingers don't deserve to be catered to by the big companies. It's all indie now. It's what we deserve for wearing white hoodies and riding through the countryside at night. I knew I shouldn't have taken that tiki torch with me!

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@Goat-kun

Speaking of those particular New Warriors, I do like Screentime's design; he looks like a black-and-green Godot (Ace Attorney).

But everything else about them? ...This ain't it, chief.

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3 hours ago, Steve Piranha said:

Rarity was portrayed by a black girl

I can see how that would trigger some people - choosing a black actress to portray the literally whitest character.

2 hours ago, Jeric said:

Well, nothing technically is a qualifier for that since there really isn't a structured criteria for what is "woke" and what is "garbage" and what is "woke garbage".

For me it's like this.

I am watching a TV show or a movie that is not about politics (something like South Park does not count here, because it is about politics and current events). In it I see something that is too-current-events, criticism aimed at a current unpopular leader etc. For example, the episode of Doctor Who with the character who was supposed to be Donald Trump in everything but name. It would be even worse if the episode was not set in the "almost-real" world.

Another problem I have is if the show/movie is advertised as "SJW-friendly", say it is a remake where the main change was that the man cast is women. Or I sometimes read stuff like "maybe it is time for a woman to play James Bond?" - how about you create a new character who is a woman? I would watch that (if it was a good movie), I have no problem watching a movie or show with female cast. I would not watch a movie where Bond was played by a woman, even though the movies would be almost exactly the same otherwise. I can watch a movie with the main character being gay or black or a woman (or a black woman who is gay), but if you attract my attention to the fact that it is SJW-friendly I will think less of the movie. 

For example, movies "The Imitation Game" or "Bohemian Rhapsody" are about a real-life people, who were gay and their gayness was a plot point (because it was a big part of their life). This is no problem.for me. However, if that person was played by a black actor (where both real people were white), I would have a problem. If the creators said somewhere "Oh, we got a gay actor to play the gay character" - that would be a problem. If the actor was gay, but my attention was not directed to that fact, there would be no problem.

Another example is a Call of Duty World War 2 game where you can find black soldiers fighting for Germany. Really. Because, you know, the German government during WW2 was so tolerant and all-inclusive...

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29 minutes ago, Antagonist said:

@Goat-kun

Speaking of those particular New Warriors, I do like Screentime's design; he looks like a black-and-green Godot (Ace Attorney).

But everything else about them? ...This ain't it, chief.

His design is ordinary C list hero fare. No complaints. His backstory, now that's special: exposed to grandfather's experimental internet gas. Was gramps consuming radioactive space beans or something? Can't you just use nanomachines since those actually make sense? Intravenous internet implants. Make him reverse ghost in the machine. And you just know that his "memes" are gonna be peak leftist cringe :P

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This is going to be a cartoon for young children. Children with parents that have political beliefs. They wouldn't even fully confirm any homosexual couples until the very last episode of G4 because of their fear of homophobes having a problem with it. There's no way they'll do anything "political" and I really can't see it being "woke garbage", whatever that's being defined as. I'd be shocked if there was even a confirmed gay character.

However, if it is "woke garbage"... sorry, I need to even define what that is. To me, that's poorly writing in diversity for the sake of diversity. Of course, I'm all for diversity in media, but I don't want it to be their defining trait. And I'm not someone that believes that happens often anyway. But if it does, that'd be woke garbage.

Okay, that's cleared up. So what will I do if G5 is "woke garbage"? Eh, probably stop watching. If it's like that, that's just bad writing and I'm sure that wouldn't be the only bad writing the show would have. I'm not invested enough in the series anymore to deal with it. If it's bad I won't bother.

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6 hours ago, Rainbow Cloud 🌈 said:

If the message is subtle and doesn't interfere with the story I might still watch it but if not then I'll just stick with G4 and ignore the new.

The problem for me is there isn't any nuance or subtlety with political messaging in media anymore, no showing different points of view, no showing that both sides may have good and bad points, no finding balance, compromise or cooperation and not leaving it up to the audience to make up their own minds at times.

This. Exactly this. I actually wrote my final paper for my English class all about media bias and censorship, it's disgraceful how far some formerly respectable media outlets have fallen into taking political sides.

I will probably still watch G5 either way though, as my love for pony transcends any reservations I may have with anything :sealed:

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It cannot be garbage if Twilight Sparkle is a dirt pony in G5. There is no way they can make the mistake of pasting wings on her again :lie:

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You people ask too much... Just enjoy the show . if you cant sorry for you. and stop being butt hurt people, its making our race weak.:laugh:

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