Should Spike have gotten wings earlier?

[CastletonSnob 3,025]

Spike finally got wings in Season 8, but do you think he should have gotten them earlier? Think of all the stories they could have done, with lots of potential for character development.

Or are you just glad it happened at all?

[Latecomer 438]

Possibly bi a season or two - not before Gauntlet of Fire, though. I think the main culprit here was the movie, which froze everyone's designs for a while.

What kind of stories do you think doing it earlier could have enabled?

[Will Guide 21,325]

Just be grateful it happened at all. That's me

[SharpWit 2,472]

I don't think he should have gotten them two reasons. In season 2 episode 2, "Secret of My Excess" we saw him become fully grown as a result of his hoarding and having a magical influence that got out of control. Spike may have been a baby dragon, but he was raised/grew up alongside twilight and eventually came to be one of the more mature characters of the show. His unique life style and the circumstances of his birth lead to him being stunted, which I think plays a big part into who he is.

Him sprouting wings also created a great deal of confusion, because while he's clearly younger than Ember, there's no way he was younger than Smolder, and yet season's 8, episode 11, "Molt Down" threw that into question. By all means, his stature is that of a baby dragon, but he's an adult and well respected member of the Ponyville community by this time.

[Gaines 1,109]

I don't really think Spike should ever have gotten wings. Twilight too! Wings just don't suit them.  

[ISpyOwnage 16]

To be honest, once you get the weird stuff out of the way, I think it is perfectly ok that we saw get wings in that episode. We would still need to know they are still growing up and learning. But they could have changed the design an TINY bit. 

[JH24 385]

I'm actually glad it happened at all. The moment when it happened felt about right for me personally, but it wasn't until after Spike got wings that I realized how "restricted" his character was before. I thought Spike having wings would be weird but the animators had so much more freedom with his character afterwards.

Edited June 9, 2020 by JH24

[Sepul-Coloratura 756]

IF he was ever going to get wings, which in this case they didn't planned it ahead, he should have got them between season 2 if early to season 5.

[Stardust 640]

Nah I think it was something better built up to. Besides he was cool without wings too.

[nightshroud96 116]

4 hours ago, JH24 said:

I'm actually glad it happened at all. The moment when it happened felt about right for me personally, but it wasn't until after Spike got wings that I realized how "restricted" his character was before. I thought Spike having wings would be weird but the animators had so much more freedom with his character afterwards.

At least his "restriction" wasn't as bad as his human-world counterpart and form in EQG being a freaking dog.
That right there really "restricted" Spike's character in EQG.

[Splashee 28,537]

Spike should never have gotten wings... Oh wait, that was Twilight.

 

I think a lot of things were rushed in the last two seasons, including giving Spike wings and a dad. But at least he didn't develop his whole personality and Princess title in Season 3

[Latecomer 438]

14 hours ago, SharpWit said:

Him sprouting wings also created a great deal of confusion, because while he's clearly younger than Ember, there's no way he was younger than Smolder, and yet season's 8, episode 11, "Molt Down" threw that into question.

I don't think Spike ever reallu saw himself as a crippled dragon - just a social outcast. We have one flightless kid already - another would be redundant.

And I'm confused bi uour confusion - can you please clarify how you know Smoulder's age?

9 hours ago, Sepul-Coloratura said:

IF he was ever going to get wings, which in this case they didn't planned it ahead, he should have got them between season 2 if early to season 5.

Whi then?

 

6 hours ago, nightshroud96 said:

At least his "restriction" wasn't as bad as his human-world counterpart and form in EQG being a freaking dog.
That right there really "restricted" Spike's character in EQG.

You say restricted - I say cool. In fact, it gives him acess to much more unique stories than vhe other chacters.

 

 

[SharpWit 2,472]

54 minutes ago, Latecomer said:

I don't think Spike ever reallu saw himself as a crippled dragon - just a social outcast. We have one flightless kid already - another would be redundant.

While being stunted can make you disabled, it doesn't necessarily mean you are. His small stature added to his difficulty navigating a world designed for a completely different species. If you can't fly, then you can't fly. If you're short and walk on two legs as opposed to four, it's going to be more difficult to get about. Part of Spike's determination and his role as a gag character, is his struggle with this. There's a huge difference between him and I assume you're referencing Scootaloo, is that there's no societal expectation for him. He never fit in to begin with, and he knows he never will, or at least won't be pushed out of the society he's a part of. If anything, he started at rock bottom, so there's no where for him to fall. Scootaloo however, is part of a culture that encourages you to go high, aim for the stars and all that, and possibly ostracizes you if you perform poorly or fail. You will be isolated for the good of the flock and all that. Rainbow Dash was able to become one of the most influential Pegasi of Equestria, and yet it was a real struggle for her to get over her mishaps and dropping out of flight school, because of bullying, and that continued on with the "name calling" she experienced with her Idols, the Wonderbolts.

1 hour ago, Latecomer said:

And I'm confused bi uour confusion - can you please clarify how you know Smoulder's age?

I have no idea how old she is, but this seems pretty self explanatory. Spike may be a baby dragon physicially, but is considered an adult among his peers by the time the school is created. He's younger, but he's still an adult. This is additionally supported by Spike being allowed to compete for the title of Dragon Lord in the Gauntlet of Fire, and become the Equestrian Diplomat for the Dragonlands. The school, is meant for teens and children, and Smolder is an attendee. Her body is more mature then spikes because she grew up in an environment that wouldn't stunt her growth like Spike did.

So while we don't know Smolder's exact age, we do know that she's definitely younger than Spike.

[Latecomer 438]

14 minutes ago, SharpWit said:

 

So while we don't know Smolder's exact age, we do know that she's definitely younger than Spike.

I din't know any such thing. Heck, Smoulder might be an adult bi dragon standards - that seems to corellate with the molt, and she's clearly had hers.  Given dragon ages, she could be in her 40s or 50s and still effectivlu be a teenager. 

If anithig, rather than stunting him, I'd say that being raised bi ponies has made Spike grow up faster - he can't be more than eleven or so at the start of the show, but there's no discussion of him going to school, and that's with Twilight "i'd live there if I could" Sparkle as a guardian.

[CameoShadowness 251]

I feel like that was too late. While I agree with the notion he shouldn't have gotten it until AFTER Gauntlet of Fire, it still felt too late in season 8. In fact a lot of things felt too late/bad in season 8. While I am glad it came over all- I did call this ages ago (woot woot), it seem wasted with the way it was used.

Most if not all of dragon lore felt completely wasted.

4 hours ago, SharpWit said:

I have no idea how old she is, but this seems pretty self explanatory. Spike may be a baby dragon physicially, but is considered an adult among his peers by the time the school is created. He's younger, but he's still an adult. This is additionally supported by Spike being allowed to compete for the title of Dragon Lord in the Gauntlet of Fire, and become the Equestrian Diplomat for the Dragonlands. The school, is meant for teens and children, and Smolder is an attendee. Her body is more mature then spikes because she grew up in an environment that wouldn't stunt her growth like Spike did.

So while we don't know Smolder's exact age, we do know that she's definitely younger than Spike.

You just reminded me, Spike's physical age is very odd. While we do know short dragons- or rather one other short dragon is/ are a thing, we also know there are hatching seasons for dragons and Spike's egg was with Celestia of all folks. So what if he was born in an off season? Just an idea you reminded me of for some reason.

[nightshroud96 116]

2 hours ago, Latecomer said:

 

You say restricted - I say cool. In fact, it gives him acess to much more unique stories than vhe other chacters.

 

 

No it doesn't, it pretty much makes it nearly impossible for him to interact with anyone else aside from the girls due to freaking out about a talking dog.
Restricts his involvement badly such as he ends up not getting to go with the girls at places with "no pets allowed".(Before you say Sci-Twi brings him to school, she is apparently willing to do that but not willing to do so for places like the mall for some reason. I don't think they brought up otherwise on why he isn't with the girls at times).
Restricts his potential on what he can do badly.  And the fact he is regulated to being a pet rather than equals with the girls(don't bring up the whole "man's best friend" bit or pets are friends too since the fact still remains, Spike is ultimately regulated to being a pet there instead of a friend of equal standing with the girls as a human).
Most of the time from what I remember, he's  just.. THERE. Like a prop just there to look cute most of the time.  
Yes he does some small thing but he is capable of doing much more if he was freaking human.

[nightshroud96 116]

32 minutes ago, CameoShadowness said:

I feel like that was too late. While I agree with the notion he shouldn't have gotten it until AFTER Gauntlet of Fire, it still felt too late in season 8. In fact a lot of things felt too late/bad in season 8. While I am glad it came over all- I did call this ages ago (woot woot), it seem wasted with the way it was used.

Most if not all of dragon lore felt completely wasted.

You just reminded me, Spike's physical age is very odd. While we do know short dragons- or rather one other short dragon is/ are a thing, we also know there are hatching seasons for dragons and Spike's egg was with Celestia of all folks. So what if he was born in an off season? Just an idea you reminded me of for some reason.

I feel like they could have done much more with the dragons.
Like some potential there, sadly most of the time they are just greedy brutes that are probably dumb at times.. Exceptions being Spike, Ember and Smolder.
Or just outright despicable at one case(Sludge)
Really there could have been much more for the dragon race as whole.
Doesn't help that apparently(so-far) they are the only SAPIANT creatures that don't get to be humans in EQG but freaking dogs instead(oddly no other dragons appeared in EQG, just Spike) and for rather stupid reasons too.  Not only ponies but also donkeys, zebras(that Zecora EQG doll), changelings(according to that app featuring human Chrysalis) and Diamond DOGS(and most likely Abyssians by that logic too) get to be humans.

[Latecomer 438]

13 minutes ago, nightshroud96 said:

No it doesn't, it pretty much makes it nearly impossible for him to interact with anyone else aside from the girls due to freaking out about a talking dog.
 

Except that no-one in Canterlot seems to care much, just like they don't about girls sprouting pony ears and wings. And he can interact in other ways than talking.

15 minutes ago, nightshroud96 said:

Restricts his involvement badly such as he ends up not getting to go with the girls at places with "no pets allowed".(Before you say Sci-Twi brings him to school, she is apparently willing to do that but not willing to do so for places like the mall for some reason. I don't think they brought up otherwise on why he isn't with the girls at times).

Becasue Dragon Spike was never randomlu present/absent according to writer whim. He's not as core cast as the rest of them - deal with it.

17 minutes ago, nightshroud96 said:

Restricts his potential on what he can do badly.  And the fact he is regulated to being a pet rather than equals with the girls(don't bring up the whole "man's best friend" bit or pets are friends too since the fact still remains, Spike is ultimately regulated to being a pet there instead of a friend of equal standing with the girls as a human).
Most of the time from what I remember, he's  just.. THERE. Like a prop just there to look cute most of the time.  
Yes he does some small thing but he is capable of doing much more if he was freaking human.

 He'd make a boring human. All of them can do human things - all he'd have is boy things, and for that I'd rather bring Flash into the group.But what's a group of magical girls without their talking animal mascot?

[nightshroud96 116]

1 hour ago, Latecomer said:

Except that no-one in Canterlot seems to care much, just like they don't about girls sprouting pony ears and wings. And he can interact in other ways than talking.

Becasue Dragon Spike was never randomlu present/absent according to writer whim. He's not as core cast as the rest of them - deal with it.

 He'd make a boring human. All of them can do human things - all he'd have is boy things, and for that I'd rather bring Flash into the group.But what's a group of magical girls without their talking animal mascot?

Apparently they are fine with the pony-up bit but not the whole "talking dog" from the looks of it. He doesn't seem like going around talking to other humans regularly aside from the girls, the only other human he(specifically dragon Spike) talked to from what I remember was DJ-PON3 and that was due to a crisis pretty much.|
He can't interact other characters properly if he can't talk to them. Like really restricting interaction there.

Pretty sure the writers actually confirmed that Spike is part of the main cast there.  Problem is in EQG he's basically demoted due to being a dog there.

As for Spike being a boring human, him being Sci-Twi's adopted brother would not make him boring.(In fact him being a pet in EQG is awkward now since FIM ultimately confirmed that Spike is more of a brother to Twilight in her family) It would have led to interesting relationships and see what he could do and interact with the girls. As for the whole "whats a group of magical girls without their talking animal mascot?", its simple. They would be just taking a different direction as in not following all of the stuff magical girl groups typically have. Spike doesn't deserve to being reduced to being a talking animal mascot there.

Edited June 9, 2020 by nightshroud96

[CameoShadowness 251]

5 hours ago, nightshroud96 said:

I feel like they could have done much more with the dragons.
Like some potential there, sadly most of the time they are just greedy brutes that are probably dumb at times.. Exceptions being Spike, Ember and Smolder.
Or just outright despicable at one case(Sludge)
Really there could have been much more for the dragon race as whole.
Doesn't help that apparently(so-far) they are the only SAPIANT creatures that don't get to be humans in EQG but freaking dogs instead(oddly no other dragons appeared in EQG, just Spike) and for rather stupid reasons too.  Not only ponies but also donkeys, zebras(that Zecora EQG doll), changelings(according to that app featuring human Chrysalis) and Diamond DOGS(and most likely Abyssians by that logic too) get to be humans.

Yeah and they could have made great stories of him and Twilight or any of the others exploring Dragon lands and such but noooo.

 

4 hours ago, Latecomer said:

Becasue Dragon Spike was never randomlu present/absent according to writer whim. He's not as core cast as the rest of them - deal with it.

Funny how you say that but some of the most important things in both FiM and EqG would NOT happen if he wasn't so important. He is a memeber of the Core cast. He has way more impact then most realize.

[Latecomer 438]

10 minutes ago, nightshroud96 said:

Apparently they are fine with the pony-up bit but not the whole "talking dog" from the looks of it. He doesn't seem like going around talking to other humans regularly aside from the girls, the only other human he(specifically dragon Spike) talked to from what I remember was DJ-PON3 and that was due to a crisis pretty much.

 

Even so, that still leaves the whole cast he can talk too, as well as nonspeaking interaions. Plus, he had his own unboxing channel. 

11 minutes ago, nightshroud96 said:

Pretty sure the writers actually confirmed that Spike is part of the main cast there.  Problem is in EQG he's basically demoted due to being a dog there.
 

He's main, but not as main as, say, Pinkie. And being a dog doesn't stop the writers including him if they want too.

13 minutes ago, nightshroud96 said:

As for Spike being a boring human, him being Sci-Twi's adopted brother would not make him boring.(In fact him being a pet in EQG is awkward now since FIM ultimately confirmed that Spike is more of a brother to Twilight in her family) It would have led to interesting relationships and see what he could do and interact with the girls. As for the whole "whats a group of magical girls without their talking animal mascot?", its simple. They would be just taking a different direction as in not following all of the stuff magical girl groups typically have. Spike doesn't deserve to being reduced to being a talking animal mascot there.

I'm not saying a human Spike would have been entirlu unintersting - but I prefer the dog. Almost anihing the human could do would work as well of better in FIM. Really, the issue isn't his species so much as the writers not being interested in using him.

 

 

[Jesse Terrence 2,963]

Shouldn't have got them at all.

[CameoShadowness 251]

4 hours ago, Jesse Terrence said:

Shouldn't have got them at all.

Why?

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

Personally, I'm grateful it even happened at all. Until Season 6, his character went nowhere. But Haber's direction changed it for the better, and he obtained the consistency he needed.

Because of that, Molt Down felt like the right time to get his wings. Two seasons ago, he re-acquainted himself with the Dragon Lands, understood that dragons are as individual as ponies, and established relations between the two countries after forfeiting Dragon Lord status to Ember. Afterwards, he became close friends with Thorax and stood up for him to the entire Crystal Empire. Then Lord Ember and King Thorax became connected in his only lead episode of S7. He and the world around him really began to evolve by the end of S7, and with S8 introducing Smolder as a secondary character, it was time he understood more and more about proper dragon culture beyond the stereotypes. Molt Down was the perfect example of that, showing that "growing" due to greed's not normal at all, yet growth into adulthood's no different than a human or pony (despite aging much slower ).

[Sepul-Coloratura 756]

On 6/10/2020 at 4:06 AM, Latecomer said:

Whi then?

Season 6 and later is too late. There's no such thing as too early on this subject. Actually, the earlier Spike got his wings, the better it would have been. He could have been flying since season 2.

Spike already have shown his mental maturity after season 5 and 6, and his physical growth felt outdated when it was presented. His physical growth should have came earlier than his mental growth if they were ever going to make the episode about it. There was already Secret of My Excess, and Molt Down shouldn't have been too far away.

It's purely for fanservices and a bucketlist. Which means, it really didn't need to happen at all. And if it had to happen, making it happen earlier would have been better.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Sepul-Coloratura