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Marking content as "political"?

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Hi!

It looks quite some ponies here do really get stressed by political content. I don't mean this condemning or judging, more as a matter-of-fact.

I wonder whether there might be simple addons or the like to allow content being marked as such easily, and in best case, independent of content type. The best thing we got is the spoiler section.

This is not a suggestion for myself. I don't mind political content, but I would prefer if someone people would feel more comfortable and tools being available.

Of course, at least technically there are other options, such as banning all political content elsewhere but the DS and then maybe create the political close-to-totally-unmoderated trashbin area where people could post stuff that usually goes into blogs or SUs that is political.

Another thing in general might be to filter out topics by membergroups with specific tags, and making tagging them obligatory. Edit 3: And why yes, I am putting myself voluntarily at the risk of punishment if I break that rule.

This is of course also up to debate, that's merely my analysis of the issue.

Edit: Can the tags be allowed for SUs? This is merely a thought play, but one option with the tools available could include the strict rule, maybe after some passing time though, of political content having to be tagged and put in spoiler boxes.

Edit 2: Making specific content (political) only visible to either opt-in or opt-out member groups. The big question would raise...how does a content gets marked for that? else...political trashbin forums area, maybe if wished, with restricted access to that group only.

 

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Speaking as a very normal user here;

Why all these fancy features when there's literally a whole section for this?

Political SU are likely to receive heated comments, potentially leading to discussions - why not just post it all properly to where it belongs?

Political topics aren't the only problem, but also how users approach them. People easily get triggered, flaming the opposite sides. Sometimes it gets really obvious, that the atmosphere got hostile, as that hatred often leaves the place it first appeared in.

Adding such feature, in my opinion, would only make it worse. That would advertise using everything over the Debate Pit for sharing the political thoughts, as that would be simply easier than making a legit thread. Everyone would start freely say whatever they want quickly and with ease and the dramas would start happening all over the place with less control over them. The burns would sneak out sooner or later - actually sooner than usual.

 

I always disliked the Debate Pit, as it's absolutely the opposite of what I signed up for. I never ever visit that section, but apparently now I don't have to, as that section visits me.

There already are all the tools they need to discuss politics without invading the rest of the community. In my opinion, at the very least, politics should never leave the debate pit.

The debate pit itself though, could use some improvements if it doesn't cover all the needs members have. There we can talk about noninvasive solutions. :darling:

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No no no no no no, I think @China (100% NOT China) 's idea is good.

Some topics aren't intended as political and still turn into political topics after certain comments are made even if the replies themselves didn't intend to turn anything into a political topic. It probably would be a good idea to allow users to filter out topics that get tagged as political by a moderator or an admin or by OP to keep these topics away from people who would like to not get involved into that sorta stuff.

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As for me, visiting a forum meant to discuss MLP, having to dodge political threads all the time, to me it only matters if it makes it easier to find MLP related content, such as while searching the forum.

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(edited)

Why does there have to be a debate pit and all the toxic politics it brings? Can't this place just be about MLP and something done to stop people from being bullied into leaving the site?

Edited by Rainbow Cloud

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If something is political, then off to The Debate Pit/Tartarus with it.

The whole "Everything Is Political" get out of jail free card doesn't wash with me. People want to enjoy the forums for leisure, socialising and to escape the troubles of reality. Clearly some members have obviously felt that politics has been shoe-horning itself into unwanted places and has upset them enough to want to leave. Personally, I would just fire a giant rainbow laser at The Debate Pit and be done with it. There are infinite number of places for people to talk politics and other forms of social napalm elsewhere on the internet, so their free speech or whatever isn't exactly going to be taken away.

On the subject of tagging things as "Political", it will only encourage for it spread outside The Debate Pit/Tartarus. The word politics can sort of be like a car crash. It's horrible and you don't want to look, but then you're tempted enough to do so out of morbid curiosity. A better tag would be "No Politics" but that should just be standard for any threads outside The Debate Pit/Tartarus.

That's my contribution anyway.

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28 minutes ago, Treeglow Flicker said:

If something is political, then off to The Debate Pit/Tartarus with it.

The whole "Everything Is Political" get out of jail free card doesn't wash with me. People want to enjoy the forums for leisure, socialising and to escape the troubles of reality. Clearly some members have obviously felt that politics has been shoe-horning itself into unwanted places and has upset them enough to want to leave. Personally, I would just fire a giant rainbow laser at The Debate Pit and be done with it. There are infinite number of places for people to talk politics and other forms of social napalm elsewhere on the internet, so their free speech or whatever isn't exactly going to be taken away.

On the subject of tagging things as "Political", it will only encourage for it spread outside The Debate Pit/Tartarus. The word politics can sort of be like a car crash. It's horrible and you don't want to look, but then you're tempted enough to do so out of morbid curiosity. A better tag would be "No Politics" but that should just be standard for any threads outside The Debate Pit/Tartarus.

That's my contribution anyway.

I fully agree with Treeglow on this one tbh

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On 6/28/2020 at 6:28 AM, Jesse Terrence said:

Some topics aren't intended as political and still turn into political topics after certain comments are made even if the replies themselves didn't intend to turn anything into a political topic. It probably would be a good idea to allow users to filter out topics that get tagged as political by a moderator or an admin or by OP to keep these topics away from people who would like to not get involved into that sorta stuff.

I don't really see it as a valid reason for such features. These cases can be handled with the existing tools.

- Threads can be moved to the appropriate area when users decide to take another path in them. If threads would be about to get marked as political and removed from typical users' view, I absolutely don't see why it couldn't be simply moved to where it belongs.
- Threads can be split into multiple threads - taking out politics and making a new thread out of them in the appropriate area.
- If no one asked for politics in a non-debate thread and doesn't want to discuss any of this in their thread, one can report such post (for let's say, derailing) and it might be removed.
- there are other various options to handle these and moderation should be willing to help with whatever users find as inappropriate/unsettling/problematic.

Many, many sites/forums/communities don't allow politics/religions at all, so seriously, you all have more tools here than you need. The entire section dedicated to politics.

I absolutely don't see why people need to consume the entire forums with politics. Let's not forget where we are - MLPForums, not DebatePitForums. Status updates should be used to post, as the name suggests, statuses, not politic news no one asked for and discussing them.

There's the entire section for politics - in my opinion that should be rather self-explanatory, that politics aren't welcomed outside of it. Allowing to post politics everywhere would defeat the purpose of the Debate Pit. If just that one section can't handle all the drama that is leaking, then imagine how many leaks users would encounter if they'd be generated everywhere.


If people like to post quick thoughts regarding politics, a mega thread in the debate pit for "opinions that don't deserve their own thread" would be a nice option in my opinion. There, people could dump their thoughts, that aren't intended to generate discussions - people could reply or not, depending on if they'd be feeling to share their opinions in the mentioned topic. Most importantly, that would keep these out of everyone's view.


Honestly though, as mentioned by few users above, I admit, that I never liked that section being there at all - or more like such politics being even allowed here in the first place. It brings more problems than it's worth. It really has the power to generate hatred between users and it's not something one would expect from pony forums. Discussing serious politics in a pony forum is quite funny when I think of this, there are much better places for that. Politics is the last thing typical users sign up for when coming here and everyone should respect that by keeping these in the designated pit.

I ignored the debate pit the entire time, I thought that it doesn't really hurt to have that sneaky optional place I can choose not to visit. However, looks like people don't want to appreciate what they've got and now personally I lean towards banning politics altogether, because seriously, is it really needed here? jBKh2oU.png

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I appologize beforehand if my post comes off as pointless.

I still think it would save mods a lot of unnecessary work to just be able to tag something with a click so it gets filtered away from the view of those not interested in case a topic gets "derailed" and ends up with anything political that might actually be way too related to the topic.

And is unlikely people might stop expressing their political views given they are something that affect them more than ever due the current situation in their enviroment. Many people look for some support in their ideas to have a feeling of belonging within a group. Most may feel their status updates and blogs are a safe space to express themselves. If anything anyone thinks is innapropiate/unsettling was to be reported, wouldn't that flood the report inbox whenever anyone disagrees on something someone else thought?

And while I agree on keeping politics low and isolated in a single place, I still think China's idea of adding tags could come in handy in situations that might turn political if the topic would not really derail if said topic has the capability of having such points expressed, and still would not be an actual debate for that matter. Sounds as weird as it gets.

And no need to reply, though. I'm just saying why I think the tag and filter idea could come in handy. I don't really need feedback on this, given is just a thought and I'm not asking for it to be done, nor do I need explanations on why the forum would rather not do so.

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11 hours ago, Rikifive said:

Why all these fancy features when there's literally a whole section for this?

11 hours ago, Rikifive said:

In my opinion, at the very least, politics should never leave the debate pit.

5 hours ago, Rikifive said:

- Threads can be moved to the appropriate area when users decide to take another path in them. If threads would be about to get marked as political and removed from typical users' view, I absolutely don't see why it couldn't be simply moved to where it belongs.

5 hours ago, Rikifive said:

Discussing serious politics in a pony forum is quite ridiculous when I think of this, there are much better places for that. Politics is the last thing typical users sign up for when coming here and everyone should respect that by keeping these in the designated pit.

There are some issues with that under the current rule set. It starts with posts that are better fitted as a SU or blog entry than a new topic and goes to the even higher standards for topics than outside of that area.

It is not as simple as just post it there instead of as a SU or blog entry - because the Debate Pit is not the place for that either.

5 hours ago, Rikifive said:

If people like to post quick thoughts regarding politics, a mega thread in the debate pit for "opinions that doesn't deserve their own thread" would be a nice option in my opinion. There, people could dump their thoughts, that aren't intended to generate discussions - people could reply or not, depending on if they'd be feeling to share their opinions in the mentioned topic. Most importantly, that would keep these out of everyone's view. 

Seconded, sounds like one possible solution at least.

6 hours ago, Splashee said:

As for me, visiting a forum meant to discuss MLP, having to dodge political threads all the time, to me it only matters if it makes it easier to find MLP related content, such as while searching the forum.

6 hours ago, Rainbow Cloud said:

Why does there have to be a debate pit and all the toxic politics it brings? Can't this place just be about MLP and something done to stop people from being bullied into leaving the site?

There are enough other topics not related to politics nor MLP, so that point is not pretty solid, ranging from social life, daily life, likes and tastes, stress and all other kind of content.

(Simply put, if that point was solid - all the other things would have no place here either)

11 hours ago, Rikifive said:

Adding such feature, in my opinion, would only make it worse. That would advertise using everything over the Debate Pit for sharing the political thoughts, as that would be simply easier than making a legit thread.

11 hours ago, Rikifive said:

Everyone would start freely say whatever they want quickly and with ease and the dramas would start happening all over the place with less control over them.

You mean like now with SUs and possibly hijacking topics? :P

I suppose an easy solution with the current tools available would be such a mega thread on tryout or the the political trashbin area with the same forums permissions as debate pit but less strict rules.

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25 minutes ago, China (100% NOT China) said:

There are enough other topics not related to politics nor MLP, so that point is not pretty solid, ranging from social life, daily life, likes and tastes, stress and all other kind of content.

I was referring to politics specifically, as a topic that probably shouldn't belong in a forum like this. (read wiki about what MLP is about)

 

When I say that, I am thinking back to a topic on a Sonic Community message board in 2010, named simply "MLP" in the off topic section, that grew in size very quickly (+10000 replies within weeks, growing out of proportions), and the moderators had to publicly state they cannot govern that topic since it is not in their interest, but they are forced to to it anyways.
Eventually the topic was locked, with a public statement that the board was about Sonic, and not MLP, and directed people to talk about MLP related things somewhere else.

 

When it comes to politics, and social life affairs, religion, etc... It is very odd that it belongs in a forum dedicated to MLP, and I feel for the staff that gets countless of reports to deal with, that doesn't even belong here. Now, this is my opinion. The staff might actually have other opinions.

 

But, to also take the other side. This forum is a public outlet for teens to adults, to talk about very depressing things, and in a depressing world, that is a popular thing. At least there is a Debate sub-forum, so the staff decided it is important. MLP used to help people feel better about their lives, and I hope that is still the main thing.

 

Lastly, the Debate forum is something I avoided. Until it brought a message stating that MLP is racist. With facts. What to do but not to try to defend one selves and our friends? I don't want to be associated with that. It was MLP focused though, and I guess that actually belongs to the forum.

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(edited)
38 minutes ago, Splashee said:

I was referring to politics specifically, as a topic that probably shouldn't belong in a forum like this. (read wiki about what MLP is about)

 

When I say that, I am thinking back to a topic on a Sonic Community message board in 2010, named simply "MLP" in the off topic section, that grew in size very quickly (+10000 replies within weeks, growing out of proportions), and the moderators had to publicly state they cannot govern that topic since it is not in their interest, but they are forced to to it anyways.
Eventually the topic was locked, with a public statement that the board was about Sonic, and not MLP, and directed people to talk about MLP related things somewhere else.

 

When it comes to politics, and social life affairs, religion, etc... It is very odd that it belongs in a forum dedicated to MLP, and I feel for the staff that gets countless of reports to deal with, that doesn't even belong here. Now, this is my opinion. The staff might actually have other opinions.

 

But, to also take the other side. This forum is a public outlet for teens to adults, to talk about very depressing things, and in a depressing world, that is a popular thing. At least there is a Debate sub-forum, so the staff decided it is important. MLP used to help people feel better about their lives, and I hope that is still the main thing.

 

Lastly, the Debate forum is something I avoided. Until it brought a message stating that MLP is racist. With facts. What to do but not to try to defend one selves and our friends? I don't want to be associated with that. It was MLP focused though, and I guess that actually belongs to the forum.

Splashers, FiM literally has ambassadors of friendship. They had a war with changellings. They married a princess with the captain of the royal guard to seal an alliance between Equestria and the Crystal Empire. They have the equestrian games which are pretty much an athletic competition to strenghten the peace bonds between regions of Equestria. And the list goes on. Politics are not something alien to this generation of ponies. Neither is alien to this iteration to take a jab or two at real life issues (remember the episode with the fans obsessing over the friendship diaries?).

As you said, this forum is, for a good amount of people, the place to let their thoughts out. Banning politics and any pony-unrelated themes is shaping this place into a stepford smillerville where people are forced to be always nice and kind. It is not the right way to tackle the problematics around here.

I think the things get gruesome when teens and immature people get involved. They take disagreement too personal. Maybe adding an age restriction to the debate symposium would be a better idea. There's a good reason why in most countries there's an age restriction for voting.

Edited by Jesse Terrence

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On 6/28/2020 at 6:01 PM, Jesse Terrence said:

I appologize beforehand if my post comes off as pointless.

No need to, we all have our views and our points and this is where things can be discussed. :fluttershy: What I say may be pointless as well. :mlp_icwudt:

On 6/28/2020 at 6:01 PM, Jesse Terrence said:

I still think it would save mods a lot of unnecessary work to just be able to tag something with a click so it gets filtered away from the view of those not interested in case a topic gets "derailed" and ends up with anything political that might actually be way too related to the topic.

Do you mean being able to tag the whole thread as political at any point, on the fly?

I imagine there could be problems with that, because let's assume;

- user1 creates a totally normal thread
- user2 submits a totally normal reply
- user3 connects things with politics and throws controversial opinions, causing users to argue and start debating
- user1 as the OP / or a moderator (?) marks the thread as political
- user2 that is not interested in politics no longer can find his own reply, nor this thread, as it magically disappeared for majority of the users. Basically you post something absolutely normal just to see it being absolutely gone from your perspective the next day.

Result: Threads across the entire forums suddenly vanish every time someone brings politics in them. Users not interested in politics would be less eager to participate in such discussions, because these would have that tendency to vanish sooner or later for them anyway, so why bother. That would not solve the existing problem, as users would still be "punished" just because someone came and threw politics in, corrupting a thread that was initially designed for friendly discussions. If there would be solid "No Politics" rule outside the debate pit, users would be sure, that if they post outside dp, politics should not destroy the thread. Well unless it was designed for heated discussions right from the start and was posted outside dp by mistake, but then users would catch, that the nature of topic is rather hostile and most likely choose to not participate and/or report the thread for being posted in a wrong place.

If one really would like to save mods a lot of unnecessary work, they wouldn't bring politics/controversial opinions where they shouldn't in the first place. If a thread wasn't designed for such debates and is posted outside the Debate Pit, a rule "no politics" should apply and members should cease derailing the topics that way. The OP is the one who creates the initial direction of the thread and when he posted something outside DP, maybe he doesn't wish to have his own thread flooded with heated discussions? And if the OP actually wasn't interested in politics, why would he have to sacrifice his own topic to mark it as one and lose an access to it afterwards? Posts that derail the topic that way should be, I don't know, ignored or reported&removed or eventually split into its own topic, that would be moved to the Debate Pit. Ideally, users should respect the nature of the topic and don't derail these, post a new thread in DP instead, focusing on the sensitive part they want to discuss. Anyway, if participants and OP would agree to have political debates in the thread, I don't see why one couldn't report a thread and ask staff to move it to the appropriate place. Moving threads is one of the tiniest and simplest tasks one could give to staff, especially when compared to all the mess politics generate. :pout:

If you meant being able to mark singular posts as political, then while it seems fine, it might create holes in discussions for some members (let's say, seeing only every 2nd post) and it would make it impossible to reply to both groups in a single post, since when one would be replying to a political part, it would automatically make those "not interested" unable to see the whole post. On the other hoof, users replying to the others would be wondering if their posts would be available for users they want to reply to, as that would require digging in the profiles to see their preferences (assuming these would be visible) - if they'll be able to view such post or not.

heh tl;dr, it would introduce some mess users would have to be careful with.

However, marking such threads that way upon their creation wouldn't involve such problems, though at this point, since OP would be going for debating, he could just create it in the debate pit instead. :ooh: Sure just tagging would be more convenient, but if users were allowed to post politics everywhere they want, that would defeat the purpose of the Debate Pit and probably cause more leaks, so to speak.

Besides, that won't be a strong argument, but some staffers keep an eye and moderate only their designated parts of the forums they've chosen themselves (Canterlot in my case). It wouldn't be really nice to bring politics they're not interested in to sections they moderate, but that's probably something users don't care about.

Debate Pit is the most difficult section to moderate in my opinion, as there's always something to do there. Don't make every other section as hostile as this one. :please:

On 6/28/2020 at 6:01 PM, Jesse Terrence said:

And is unlikely people might stop expressing their political views given they are something that affect them more than ever due the current situation in their enviroment. Many people look for some support in their ideas to have a feeling of belonging within a group. Most may feel their status updates and blogs are a safe space to express themselves.

I absolutely understand the desire to express oneself in that area, especially with all the mess that happens now. I myself would like to say one or few things about the crappy politics I have to face everyday. However, I know I won't achieve anything by doing so here and many, many, many users (including me) come here to distract themselves from that dark environment. Not everyone comes here to be greeted with negative content (mocking politicians for their actions and whining on them) and/or wars between users debating all over the place. It really can successfully "scare away" members, which is what we're experiencing now here. There are way better places to discuss such topics.

Sometimes people post more personal statuses, that happened to be an effect of politics (for example finding yourself in a bad time due to some changes or just admitting to something) and I can understand that personally. That's where one could look for some support. Most of the time however, people just dump random news they disagree with to whine on / mock politicians, or post controversial opinions telling everyone what's right and what not. Politics are sensitive and are likely to generate heat, using SU/blogs as an excuse / hoping to avoid facing opinions from other users isn't really right.

Generally, I'm in communities/servers, where politics are a plain nope and they're doing just fine I'd say, or even better. At that point when someone starts dramas with politics, it is considered as rule violation and the solutions are rather obvious.

It's really bad when there are people who dislike each other in the community. They constantly overreact, aiming to get rid of the people they see as enemies and this often leads to countless of local wars, that eventually find their way to bother bystanders. That's what these debates constantly generate. For example, I'm pretty sure the majority of users remembers the fantastic drama with "laugh" reactions. Something that was designed to be used in a nice way was dramatically misused by political users, to laugh at opinions, which led to problems across the entire forums.

Having politics allowed here is a generous enough thing, users really should appreciate having such section here and respect everyone else who doesn't want to participate in these topics.

On 6/28/2020 at 6:01 PM, Jesse Terrence said:

If anything anyone thinks is innapropiate/unsettling was to be reported, wouldn't that flood the report inbox whenever anyone disagrees on something someone else thought?

I'm pretty sure it's not a mystery, that the Debate Pit (politics/religions in general) already is a huuuuuuuge source of reports. Everyone who's active in these discussions has seen many nasty things/insults and tons, tons, tons and tons of posts disappearing because of that. Everything should be self-explanatory what is happening there and it shouldn't surprise anyone. This is... pretty much politics and religions in a nutshell and that's why some sites choose to not allow any of this. It's easier to extinguish the little flames before they grow. :awwthanks:

On 6/28/2020 at 6:01 PM, Jesse Terrence said:

And while I agree on keeping politics low and isolated in a single place, I still think China's idea of adding tags could come in handy in situations that might turn political if the topic would not really derail if said topic has the capability of having such points expressed, and still would not be an actual debate for that matter. Sounds as weird as it gets.

Such tags could be handy, that's true, though I'm sure if it would be that perfect solution everyone is looking for. :twi:

On 6/28/2020 at 6:37 PM, China (100% NOT China) said:

There are some issues with that under the current rule set. It starts with posts that are better fitted as a SU or blog entry than a new topic and goes to the even higher standards for topics than outside of that area.

It is not as simple as just post it there instead of as a SU or blog entry - because the Debate Pit is not the place for that either.

That's a fair point, yes.

Tagging at least SU's and filtering them sounds plausible when taking this into consideration. Pa6CktV.png Though I'm still not a fan of letting politics spread across the entire forums. qgWC76l.png
I wonder if that mega thread could work. There's already a General Chat Thread, so I could imagine Debate Pit getting its own General Debate Thread or something like this, where everyone would be sharing all these news and quick opinions in one nice spot.

On 6/28/2020 at 6:37 PM, China (100% NOT China) said:

There are enough other topics not related to politics nor MLP, so that point is not pretty solid, ranging from social life, daily life, likes and tastes, stress and all other kind of content.

(Simply put, if that point was solid - all the other things would have no place here either)

There is a huge difference between socializing in general and politics, that often do the opposite, dividing people into groups.

Socializing => pretty much "default" stuff, so to speak; general discussions everyone can relate to, meeting new people, chatting with them, getting to know them better; mostly harmless
Asking how is everyone, how the day went, what they like to do in the free time and such are normal daily topics and how communities function.


Politics => a standalone, insanely wide and specific topic sensitive enough to bother users who don't want to discuss that, often loud and hard to ignore, requires some actual knowledge and interest to participate or even just comprehend, mostly negative due to being built out of controversial opinions and/or plain hate, #1 source of dramas in most places, heat often spreads across the entire forums making everything else more difficult for everyone; rather quickly divides users into groups, that dislike each other, while the forums should be aiming to create a one solid group
That isn't really necessary here or should be completely optional at the very least, otherwise the fire would consume the forums.

On 6/28/2020 at 7:57 PM, Jesse Terrence said:

As you said, this forum is, for a good amount of people, the place to let their thoughts out. Banning politics and any pony-unrelated themes is shaping this place into a stepford smillerville where people are forced to be always nice and kind. It is not the right way to tackle the problematics around here.

The problem are the political users who slowly leave no choices. The real point of debates is to share opinions, try to understand different views, seek compromises. Here however, users often like to just roast people in debates, shove their views into innocent users, shaping this place into a hell no one wants to be in.

Things should indeed be balanced, but the hatredville doesn't care and grows in size and it isn't the right way to tackle the problems around here either.

 

On 6/28/2020 at 7:57 PM, Jesse Terrence said:

I think the things get gruesome when teens and immature people get involved. They take disagreement too personal. Maybe adding an age restriction to the debate symposium would be a better idea. There's a good reason why in most countries there's an age restriction for voting.

That's the thing. Debate Pit is a specific area, where one knows what to expect when entering there, yet they still can't handle their emotions. If politics would randomly appear here and there, it could constantly trigger them wherever users would go. I don't really mind politics happening in that one place as long as users know how to behave and keep it all there, but they fail to do that, so I don't think expanding their options would be a good idea, in regards to these tags.


Eh, my post got so long, that probably stopped making any sense at some point. Sorry about that. MamJ89C.png

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Independent of the announcement, I want to give short suggestions which might seen as fit and helpful...or well, not, which should be technically possible with the current tools. Neglected ideas could prove useful later though, or transform into something useful. I got these in my mind during the night and before I read the announcement, for that matter.

1. Allowing politix in SUs and blogs if being behind a clear spoiler warning. I don't know how to spoiler subjects of blogs, though. maybe. Shortening the preview of the title to X characters and making a mandatory prefix could work, though.

2. I see MLPolitix just as dangerous for escalating, TBH. Whether it is about Bronies having racist problems or whether Rarity is transgender or if ponies support LGBTQ and signals for that in the show, well, that is definitively explosive. I advocate for another forums area of that in order to shield members, and given the DS has already it's own reputation for that stuff, I suggest to make it a subforums so most users already know what it will be used for and don't post in there accidentally.

3. As described before, a possible political trashbin sub area. A mega thread could work as well. Basically as a replacement for the gone SUs and blogs.

 

7 hours ago, Rikifive said:

There is a huge difference between socializing in general and politics, that often do the opposite, dividing people into groups. 

Socializing => pretty much "default" stuff, so to speak; general discussions everyone can relate to, meeting new people, chatting with them, getting to know them better; mostly harmless
Asking how is everyone, how the day went, what they like to do in the free time and such are normal daily topics and how communities function.

Was merely pointing out the flaw in the point if it isn't MLP, it doesn't belong to MLPforums and how that statement is simply invalid for many other stuff as well.

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I want to apologize to @China (100% NOT China). I realize now that you are not trying to cause any problems, but try to help. And that you are trying to protect your passion for politics, and make it less confusing.

And I also mixed politics and debates as being the same thing, which they are not.

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Don't worry, we are still besties! :bedeyes:

I merely recognized a systematical issue and thought we should do about that. It doesn't even concern me much anyways as I can take it and have a rather thick skin, but then again, I am (also) here for debates. I just saw people leaving and preferred for one if they don't, and for two making their stay more comfortable - or at least less stressing, for that matter.

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5 hours ago, China (100% NOT China) said:

1. Allowing politix in SUs and blogs if being behind a clear spoiler warning

Impossibru! :P

Status updates also display three latest comments, which would cause leaks. Users would also have to remember about spoilers while replying.

Besides, it would be terrible design-wise, because every x status would be just a spoiler with three spoilers beneath it as comments. Also constantly screaming "Watch out! Politics!" in status updates won't really make anyone feel more comfortable. :twi:

5 hours ago, China (100% NOT China) said:

2. I see MLPolitix just as dangerous for escalating

That is a fair point, though mlp politics are somewhat different than our real politics. Discussing pretty much everything has the tendency to result in arguments, but these are far behind with drama generation compared to our politics. MLP debates didn't seem to cause much troubles, maybe users are more careful there, take arguments less personally, just use the common sense to keep these neat. With our politics on the other hand, there are sensitive personal beliefs in play, that users aim to strongly defend.

Hmmm.. I have mixed feelings there tbh, but at least pony politics are on-topic lmao :muffins:

5 hours ago, China (100% NOT China) said:

3. As described before, a possible political trashbin sub area. A mega thread could work as well

Improving Debate Pit itself is something I personally support. This section is for users interested in politics and if they feel, that there's something missing, fulfilling wishes within that section wouldn't be invasive to the rest of the community and would help keeping things clean.

If DP would cover all the needs, users would be less likely to spread politics elsewhere after all.

5 hours ago, China (100% NOT China) said:

Was merely pointing out the flaw in the point if it isn't MLP, it doesn't belong to MLPforums and how that statement is simply invalid for many other stuff as well.

Yeah; It's kinda hard to support it with a solid argument or put into words, that couldn't be compared to everything else, but they do have a point.

Our politics is a wider topic than the entire MLP and compared to these other subjects, it follows a rather different path focusing on sensitive debates, instead of just bringing things into discussion.

MLP and these other minor things are mostly safe, where politics preferably should be only for adults. That's kinda that one difference one could use to say, that politics don't belong here. :twi:

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5 minutes ago, Rikifive said:

MLP debates didn't seem to cause much troubles, maybe users are more careful there,

did you even read about the topics I cited.

Whenever MLP crosses IRL society values or politics, topics often went haywire and had to get closed. Sometimes it might have been tried to get moved to DP, but then it was usually too late to get saved and got closed anyways. Examples include the recent topic, or whether Rarity is a transgirl, likely tooncritic and others. I think when MLP crossed such subjects on here it didn't fare well.

Of course, staff as a whole agreed upon not installing MLPolitix, and it is simple as given as it is. Just my two cents while I do think how these often turned out explosive too.

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(edited)
31 minutes ago, China (100% NOT China) said:

did you even read about the topics I cited.

Whenever MLP crosses IRL society values or politics, topics often went haywire and had to get closed. Sometimes it might have been tried to get moved to DP, but then it was usually too late to get saved and got closed anyways. Examples include the recent topic, or whether Rarity is a transgirl, likely tooncritic and others. I think when MLP crossed such subjects on here it didn't fare well.

Of course, staff as a whole agreed upon not installing MLPolitix, and it is simple as given as it is. Just my two cents while I do think how these often turned out explosive too.

Yeah but still these aren't as tragic, at least yet. You do have a point ofc.

Tbh if I'd be aiming to create a thread where I'd mix mlp with heavier rl politics like this, I'd lean towards creating it in the Debate Pit. I'd be about to debate after all, MLP would be just one of the materials I'd refer to/base on. But yeah, that's a bit more complicated to judge as from one side it's on-topic, from another it's a debate not everyone would like to be bothered with.

There are lighter and heavier topics and if I'd believe, that what I'm about to discuss wouldn't be designed to sparkle heated debates, I'd post it in the mlp area and at that point users should try to respect the direction of the thread.

In the end I have mixed feelings, so yeah.

Edited by Rikifive
Worse than politics are my typos 😂

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31 minutes ago, China (100% NOT China) said:

did you even read about the topics I cited.

Whenever MLP crosses IRL society values or politics, topics often went haywire and had to get closed. Sometimes it might have been tried to get moved to DP, but then it was usually too late to get saved and got closed anyways. Examples include the recent topic, or whether Rarity is a transgirl, likely tooncritic and others. I think when MLP crossed such subjects on here it didn't fare well.

Of course, staff as a whole agreed upon not installing MLPolitix, and it is simple as given as it is. Just my two cents while I do think how these often turned out explosive too.

Yeah. That one topic was moved to the pit, and even then people were so triggered they kept going at it. Few users here know when to back off from a topic. If we combine the age restriction or an opt-out option for that single sub forum with the current topic moving, I'm sure we could reduce hot incidents like the past one. I mean, think about it. You.move tje topic to the pit, and it gets filtered out right away. People who sees the smoke and don't want to be in the fire most likely won't want to stay around a topic that became heated. Teens who can't control themselves over debates would be separated from other users who don't agree with them, and the topic integrity would probably remain without choping out posts on the recently moved topic. We separate people right away before things keep scalating. Also, I guess we as users who were or are in such topics can keep an eye on the SUs and blogs and report if the guys who got expelled after the moving try to call out opponents outside afterwards.

Just look at us right now! Bas and I usually stand on opossing sides on debates over the pit, and here we are working together to find a work around to help everypony! :ButtercupLaugh:

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Apart from it being heated already when it got moved, there is another, technical and simple reason for it:

image.png.6a66ae6849d696aac6b5e9e74825e5a5.png

People followed it who likely don't visit DS at all. Now the topic gets moved to the proper area. But the subscription of people is not cancelled that way, so the same people are still seeing replies in their inbox, or whatever kind of tool they use to find that topic.

 

24 minutes ago, Jesse Terrence said:

Just look at us right now! Bas and I usually stand on opossing sides on debates over the pit, and here we are working together to find a work around to help everypony! :ButtercupLaugh:

:umad:

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(edited)
1 hour ago, Jesse Terrence said:

Yeah. That one topic was moved to the pit, and even then people were so triggered they kept going at it. Few users here know when to back off from a topic. If we combine the age restriction or an opt-out option for that single sub forum with the current topic moving, I'm sure we could reduce hot incidents like the past one. I mean, think about it. You.move tje topic to the pit, and it gets filtered out right away. People who sees the smoke and don't want to be in the fire most likely won't want to stay around a topic that became heated. Teens who can't control themselves over debates would be separated from other users who don't agree with them, and the topic integrity would probably remain without choping out posts on the recently moved topic. We separate people right away before things keep scalating. Also, I guess we as users who were or are in such topics can keep an eye on the SUs and blogs and report if the guys who got expelled after the moving try to call out opponents outside afterwards.

The problem is, that users can lie about their age and/or (at least temporarily) opt-in to debate pit just to locate the moved thread and continue debating. :awwthanks: You won't stop those mad lads. :mlp_icwudt:

It's really hard to extinguish such threads once nasty comments managed to appear and even adults can lose temper.

At least one good thing is, that moving a thread to the debate pit removes it from view for those, who really don't want to see any of this, limiting the amount of potential new users, who could be bothered by it / would join the war. What happens to the thread afterwards is up to those, who still want to debate and not much can be done there I'm afraid, other than locking the thread to let them calm down.

59 minutes ago, Jesse Terrence said:

Just look at us right now! Bas and I usually stand on opossing sides on debates over the pit, and here we are working together to find a work around to help everypony! :ButtercupLaugh:

And that's the spirit! :yay:

 

34 minutes ago, China (100% NOT China) said:

People followed it who likely don't visit DS at all. Now the topic gets moved to the proper area. But the subscription of people is not cancelled that way, so the same people are still seeing replies in their inbox, or whatever kind of tool they use to find that topic.

Followers can be manually removed by staff, so there is a solution to that if it's really a problem.

They still, however, will have these other tools to find the topic. Go to profile and view the recent activity, it's as easy as it sounds.

Edited by Rikifive

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Well, I have a weird idea since you mention the age change. How about the forum keeps the first (or for users who are already registered the current one as sort of a snapshot) birthdate registered by the users and uses it to grant access based on said birthdate? Program the database so whenever they change it, it doesn't overwrite the first original date.

That could help with the age restriction issue. Make it an obligatory field during sign up. Drop statistical mumbo jumbo stuff so they don't think there's any age restricted areas. Kids will lie about their age anyway, but I doubt they'll try to put an age far beyond the minimum to join the forum.

Now, the other part is gonna be an actual challenge. Maybe that opt-in opt-out part should be admin or mod reviewed before allowing the opt-in. Like, users can switch it off by themselves, but the switch on may require of administrative clearance.

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I think you are overthinking and trying to do way too complex things here. Solutions need to be applicable.

17 minutes ago, Jesse Terrence said:

Program the database so whenever they change it, it doesn't overwrite the first original date. 

This would result in having 2 different variables possibly from formerly one, and would require to fiddle with the forums code, if even able. I know staff dislikes doing that.

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3 minutes ago, China (100% NOT China) said:

I think you are overthinking and trying to do way too complex things here. Solutions need to be applicable.

This would result in having 2 different variables possibly from formerly one, and would require to fiddle with the forums code, if even able. I know staff dislikes doing that.

Technically an array, but I get your point.

I myself don't see it as a far too complex solution, though. Maybe the first part on retreiving the birthdates if they can't employ a 1 time script to run through all the currently existent users, though I have the feeling the database must keep users both by name and ID number. Usually by registration order.

I can see it. Have a counter variable, use a cicle to check for existence of entry, look for birthdate and copy to age reference birthdate in case it exists. If the database keeps track of users by registration order, it shouldn't have problems due "skipped" entries. Even banned users still exist. Once it hits the last entry, it will look for the next one. It won't exist and the script can break the loop and finish.

But all well, I'm just mumbling nonsense. I will still evade political opinions outside the pits and hope things get sorted out.

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