A Matter of Sensitive Topics

[BornAgainBrony 2,395]

Well, I'm not sure what to expect at this point.

Sadly, part of this may be my fault. I don't post political stuff on my wall, but on many occasions I've (presumably on deaf ears) recommended certain posts to go to blog instead, and I've seen a few recommendations from mods for similar. Far too often, the DS has become a place for people to drop a video link to some youtuber about something barely related to the discussion, or post a link to an article, leave one completely uninformative ranty sentence about it," and then ignore anyone who responds to it. In other words, the DS has regularly been treated like a Facebook wall. Now that it's actually forbidden for users to put these posts where they logically belong, I suspect the trollish problems in DS will be exasperated even further.

[Courageous Thunder Dash 7,809]

Sure there are a lot of stuff going on the world today, and I certainly believe that we all should talk about it at certain times. The hardest part is when people disagree with each other and that's where things may happen. I really think there should be a place in the DS where if you want to talk about, there should be a checkbox you gotta tick like 

"This area of the forums may contain sensitive topics. Any form of _______ and ______ will not be tolerated and will result in warnings, suspensions or bans. Check the box if you agree to these terms then click "Proceed to forums"

[Splashee 28,537]

On 8/27/2020 at 11:31 PM, You said:

It seems the topic is surging again, and from my POV, mainly in SUs.

What is SU?

 

Also, I kinda keep track of the activity from your notifications, knowing you have a slight problem with the political ones (you stated in Life Advice), and seeing you reply in one of those topics makes it apparent things are going on. I don't try to single you out, I just notice it because I follow you (I follow many people here, and see their actions daily)

[ExplosionMare 18,007]

I think if a set of rules beforehand are established then sensitive topics would be more okay unless they were things people should never talk about

[Splashee 28,537]

On 9/2/2020 at 7:22 PM, You said:

Status Updates.

 

It is less that I have problems with them (or the very most of them), but others do. For the LA topic, the focus wasn't the politics, but how I fare or should fare with them.

I see.

 

Spoiler

Also, I thought SU meant "Shut Up"

 

[Props Valroa 26,028]

To be entirely honest, why do we even need a political section on this forum at all? It's not meant to be a debate forum. 

[Jeric 46,834]

16 hours ago, Scar said:

To be entirely honest, why do we even need a political section on this forum at all?

It has been suggested that the forum may be more palatable without one. It exists only to keep hot-button political debate separated from general discussion. Way back when (before I joined the community) it was an attempt to isolate political discourse from general topics. 

16 hours ago, Scar said:

It's not meant to be a debate forum. 

It is, though it finds itself in between a raging dumpster fire that comes with allowing any and all responses, and classical debate. The first doesn't fit this forum's general purpose. The second doesn't have adequate participation as most users here lack the ability to follow one of the accepted formal debate and rhetorical structures. No questioning period, no rule that assertions contain qualified proof, limits on new arguments introducing in rebuttal, etc. 

[Props Valroa 26,028]

9 minutes ago, Jeric said:

It has been suggested that the forum may be more palatable without one. It exists only to keep hot-button political debate separated from general discussion. Way back when (before I joined the community) it was an attempt to isolate political discourse from general topics. 
 

It is, though it finds itself in between a raging dumpster fire that comes with allowing any and all responses, and classical debate. The first doesn't fit this forum's general purpose. The second doesn't have adequate participation as most users here lack the ability to follow one of the accepted formal debate and rhetorical structures. No questioning period, no rule that assertions contain qualified proof, limits on new arguments introducing in rebuttal, etc. 

You can keep it 'seperated' by banning political discussion from the forum all together. It's a hassle for admins and moderators to constantly regulate that place. It causes constant issues no matter what you do, no matter what new rules you put in for it, it's still a hassle. Do you really want that here?

And for your 'first' and 'second' are exactly the reasons why it shouldn't be here at all.
 

[Splashee 28,537]

22 minutes ago, Jeric said:

It has been suggested that the forum may be more palatable without one. It exists only to keep hot-button political debate separated from general discussion. Way back when (before I joined the community) it was an attempt to isolate political discourse from general topics.

I think that was a working idea. There is a very clear distinction between General Discussion and Debate forum, and it is nice to force one selves into an argument.

 

Politics seems to be unavoidable in this DNAge. But I still wonder if there isn't a better suited place to debate politics than in a MLP themed forum (it is rarely I see a topic that includes both politics and MLP)

[Props Valroa 26,028]

6 hours ago, Splashee® said:

I think that was a working idea. There is a very clear distinction between General Discussion and Debate forum, and it is nice to force one selves into an argument.

 

Politics seems to be unavoidable in this DNAge. But I still wonder if there isn't a better suited place to debate politics than in a MLP themed forum (it is rarely I see a topic that includes both politics and MLP)

The best thing to do would be a complete removal of the section from the forums all together. We know how much problems it has caused over the years.

[Splashee 28,537]

34 minutes ago, Scar said:

The best thing to do would be a complete removal of the section from the forums all together. We know how much problems it has caused over the years.

Which reminds me of what they did on a big Sonic forum in 2011, locking a FIM topic in an "Off Topic sub forum" saying it was too difficult to moderate after hundreds of posts, with the message to find a forum that deals with MLP stuff. The moderators there were tired to endlessly read about Rainbow Dash just to make sure no one would break the rules.

Thankfully, I don't have to moderate the Debate section, at least not at this point (I have any problems with it or politics in general )

[Props Valroa 26,028]

6 minutes ago, Splashee® said:

Which reminds me of what they did on a big Sonic forum in 2011, locking a FIM topic in an "Off Topic sub forum" saying it was too difficult to moderate after hundreds of posts, with the message to find a forum that deals with MLP stuff. The moderators there were tired to endlessly read about Rainbow Dash just to make sure no one would break the rules.

Thankfully, I don't have to moderate the Debate section, at least not at this point (I have any problems with it or politics in general )

Well I don't believe moderating such a place is worth it. Is politics really needed on a mlp forum? If people want politics go to a debate discord server or forum.

[Misty Shadow 7,084]

My honest opinion on all this, being someone who has long lost interest in the Debate Symposium is...

"Who cares?" 

I'm only commenting on this because a friend of mine wanted me to share my thoughts after I made some jokes, but sharing how I really feel despite jesting about petty grievances, I honestly do not care. I fully agree that this is a pony forum where people should not be taking politics too seriously, but getting rid of political discussion altogether, I honestly feel that to be against free speech. People who are only on here for pony now, like myself, can simply choose not to read the topics in Debate. We are not being forced to participate in something we do not like. Any "harm" a sensitive topic that is not constructive does to someone on here who is trying to escape the political world is done to themselves. Total suppression of any serious discussion whatsoever is only going to give those who are unhealthily overzealous about their beliefs even more incentive to explode on someone and cause them actual harm. 

This is only my opinion that I was asked to share. 

[Props Valroa 26,028]

12 minutes ago, You said:

The same can be said about all other topics; Why do we need to talk about tech, about daily life, counting numbers and so on on a MLP forums? Because honestly - we hate to visit multiple platforms, it is more uncomfortable, harder to track all of them for new content, and maybe we prefer to interact with people we know already instead.

Same goes for debates and politics, they are no different in that regard.

Did it - outside of the area? If not: Then the system is proving to keep it at bay and isolated. If not: I think it is wish-thinking to believe politics would cease to exist on the site just because the subforums for them are gone.

 

Talking about our daily lives, tech, etc is different. It isn't as divisive as political discussion can get and that is precisely why I would like to see it done away with. It's caused drama and rifts between users over differing ideological beliefs. Is that really a good thing to be having here?

It's not really wish-thinking in my eyes. Political discussion is banned from status updates and profile posts. Thats one step out of the way. All that would need to be done is to ban public discussion of it and have it be done in DMs if users desire to do it on this site. 

Ngl I was a bit confused when I saw "you have quoted you" in this topic lol.

Edited September 7, 2020 by Scar

[Props Valroa 26,028]

6 minutes ago, You said:

Only since recently, and with full success either. I was merely replying to closing the subforums, and not related to the rule, as you didn't include that within your statement.

But that alone is also causing drama, as people get upset when stuff they post gets deleted.

Well it's my proposal that, if the subforums is removed, then all public discussion of politics can be specified within the rules. I was once on a forum called Minecraft forums. It had a channel called 'PPNS' meaning, Politics, Philosophy, News, and Science was what it was intended for. It proved too unruly for the staff of the forums to handle and caused so much drama and rule breaking that it was archived from the forum. I've seen in my time so many political threads get locked and people banned / warned over political discussions. At the very least it should be moderated more strictly to prevent / deter such things from occurring. 

If people get upset when things are deleted, too bad. It broke the rules. Rules are rules. 

Ngl meaning, not going to lie.

Edited September 7, 2020 by Scar

[Props Valroa 26,028]

9 minutes ago, You said:

I think you are trying to force a single solution to multiple problems:

1) People getting exposed to it: Same for NSFW art, it is not a matter whether it exists, but rather whether people see it without wanting to. This announcement is kind-of the solution to that part anyways.

2) Moderation: I think DS should have one or multiple dedicated people for modding it. I have some names in the back of my mind as candidates, don't worry, not me, albeit I haven't asked them about whether any of them would be willing to.

Doesn't really matter if you are exposed to it or not on this forum, you are going to see it elsewhere. You really can't go a single day without breathing in that toxic political smoke in most cases. Part of the reason why I left this forum last year was because I was tired of seeing people complain about politician x or politician y and leaving rants about it in status updates. I may say my piece in the debate area occasionally, but I don't intend on doing full debates unlike some users here. I have largely come back here to contact old friends and just kill boredem / escape from political smoke.

Also you can't really 'debate' these days, people are hard headed and stick to whatever ideology they have. Most, if not all rely upon emotional reasoning that words on a screen from someone of a differing ideology aren't going to change. So whats the point, on a pony forum of all places? Can't change someone's mind if they aren't even willing to listen or already have their mind made up. 

I agree with you on your point 2, that to me is an "At least theres that" solution.
  

Edited September 7, 2020 by Scar

[Props Valroa 26,028]

7 minutes ago, You said:

Yes, and to that was a solution implemented. Now, if you see political content - you either visit the DS willingly, or the rule above is not followed or strictly enough enforced. The DS subforums have a pretty much 0 role in this. You visit the DS? You see the DS. You don't? You won't see it anywhere.

Whether DS exists or not has absolutely nothing to do with the problems you described. It is an isolated area that doesn't show the posts to anyone who isn't visiting it or is subscribed to anything. You are trying to find a solution to a problem that doesn't exist by banning it.

 

You have a point there, although I will ask: What is the point of debating users on a mlp forum?

[Props Valroa 26,028]

2 hours ago, You said:

Well, obviously the question is rather why should one not, if there is a mutual interest in it?

If there is no progress made in a debate, if both parties hate the ideology of whatever the other is saying or something of that sort, then there is no real point other than just to see what they say in my eyes. Can't try to change what someone believes if they aren't willing to themselves.

[Will Guide 21,325]

On 6/29/2020 at 7:40 AM, ~C. Discord~ said:

Please refrain from talking about politics, religion and other highly sensitive topics in blogs, status updates or topics that are not located inside the Debate Symposium.

I messed up and broke this rule. I hope there are no hard feelings to all involved

[Jeric 46,834]

The Status Update rule is still in effect. Thank you all for keeping the index clean