Why did they use Grogar only for him to be a fake?

[CastletonSnob 3,023]

If Grogar being a fake so the Legion of Doom can be the final villains was the plan all along, why use Grogar, a character fans have been wanting to see for years? Why not just make up a villain? How did anyone on the writing staff think this was a good idea?

[Megas 27,048]

Because they wanted to, wait for it,

Subvert your expectations. Even if the end result made zero sense and only serves to annoy you

[Steve Piranha 28,745]

Maybe in the end they’ve wanted to bring familiar and all time favorite villains as the final villains. I approve of it 

[moh310 23]

maybe i was just dumb but i never expected grogar to be fake. it was kind of shocking! but i loved seeing cozy glow and tireks dynamic lol. and queen chrysalis as well! not a fan of king sombra tho.

[Props Valroa 25,967]

That was really stupid of them. Pathetic.

[Sepul-Coloratura 756]

Because in later seasons, they couldn’t  write a good story arc or have a seasonal plan to save their lives. Look at what they did with Sombra. Look at what they did with the elements. The students. Twilight. Crystal Empire. Princesses. The Pillars. Discord. 

[Jedishy 3,542]

Because the plan was perfectly Discord in nature. This has been the exact way he taught lessons since the episode where the chaos vines ran amok.

He creates an struggle and keeps barely enough control of it to ensure the Mane 6 can beat it and not get hurt.

So why Gregor? Because they wouldn't trust him at that point and he needed a powerful figure that could cow them into working with each other and who had a prize worthwhile enough to give them focus 

[Will Guide 21,325]

12 minutes ago, Jedishy said:

Because the plan was perfectly Discord in nature. This has been the exact way he taught lessons since the episode where the chaos vines ran amok.

He creates an struggle and keeps barely enough control of it to ensure the Mane 6 can beat it and not get hurt.

So why Gregor? Because they wouldn't trust him at that point and he needed a powerful figure that could cow them into working with each other and who had a prize worthwhile enough to give them focus 

That does seem to fit Discord's character a lot. Regardless of whether or not it was a good idea on Discord's part to impersonate, the fact remains that it ended up bringing everyone in Equestria together in that huge Calvary shot!

[Jedishy 3,542]

5 minutes ago, Will Guide said:

That does seem to fit Discord's character a lot. Regardless of whether or not it was a good idea on Discord's part to impersonate, the fact remains that it ended up bringing everyone in Equestria together in that huge Calvary shot!

Chaos is rarely a good idea but we can almost always learn from it. So it makes sense that the Lord of Chaos would embody that terrible fact in his decision making skills.

[HedonismBot 217]

11 hours ago, Megas said:

Because they wanted to, wait for it,

Subvert your expectations. Even if the end result made zero sense and only serves to annoy you

The whole "subvert your expectations" thing only works if what you get is more interesting than what you were expecting. That was not the case here.

Especially after Discord had already done the whole "throw villain at Twilight to boost her confidence" thing back in "The Beginning of the End".

[Goat-kun 2,496]

Bad writers gonna write badly. If I paid some ramen guzzler for a toy commercial they'd do a bad job too. It's the magic spiral of the mainstream entertainment industry going down, down, down the drain. The entertainment part is not there anymore. It's shallow nostalgia and merchandising. Oh, I'm sure some of you were entertained. So was I watching Cornhub the other night. Guess how much good writing was involved there. Don't care more ponies, am I right?

[Sonic Shimmer 4,116]

I guess it seemed like a good idea when they were writing it, but it didn't turn out that way.

[Oleks 1,983]

Here's what Jim Miller said in his Q&A:

Q: Was Grogar being Discord in disguise always planned, or was that added in later drafts for the season arc?

A: It was planned from the beginning. You think we were going to let a brand new baddie (new to this Gen, anyway) be the one to take on our girls at the end? We wanted it to be those 3 to have that personal connection.

[HedonismBot 217]

Another big problem with it is that Twilight had already been undergoing all manner of underhanded (underhoofed?) tests from both Celestia and Discord over the seasons. The series shouldn't have ended with yet another test, but with us being shown that she didn't need any more testing - that she was fully ready to start her new job as ruler of Equestria. Giving us a real Grogar would have been the ideal way to do so.

 

[Rushing cash 824]

They wanted someone intimidating to make the villains work together, and since fans wanted to see grogar in the show for so long, it was a great opportunity. Going with a villain that many fans already had some idea on what he is helped build up the hype, personally I think it was a good idea. 

[Props Valroa 25,967]

3 minutes ago, Rushing cash said:

They wanted someone intimidating to make the villains work together, and since fans wanted to see grogar in the show for so long, it was a great opportunity. Going with a villain that many fans already had some idea on what he is helped build up the hype, personally I think it was a good idea. 

I wish there was a real Grogar. The whole discord being Grogar was really stupid.

[Rushing cash 824]

1 hour ago, Califorum said:

I wish there was a real Grogar. The whole discord being Grogar was really stupid.

We do know that in equestria's time line was a real grogar, we just never met him. I myself, was hoping for a great battle against grogar, but what we got was just as satisfyingly in my opinion.

[BastementSparkle 20,310]

I don't know, and honestly I think it was a terrible idea. People have been wanting to see Grogar for years, whether because they're G1 fans with nostalgia for him, or because they've heard about him and just think he sounds cool. There's been fics and art of him for years. The show even made him sound super cool, I mean "The Father of Monsters"? "First Emperor of Equestria?" He created monsters, potentially many of the ones we've seen in the show itself? The first episode makes him seem super awesome. I was genuinely excited to see what he could do, how our heroes were going to beat him and then...he's just Discord in disguise. A plot twist like this only works if what you get is cooler than what you expected you'd get, and that's not how this went down. It just made Discord stupid, and as much as I love the trio I don't think they're all that exciting as the final villains in comparison to what Grogar could have been. So, I lose out on a villain I was excited for and one of my favorite characters get's made to look like a completely braindead moron.

Discord's plan is fairly in-character in theory, due to his weird sense of morals and logic, but that doesn't mean it's good writing. For one, Discord getting betrayed like he did requires him to be much stupider than he has ever been elsewhere in the series. Why didn't he watch them go for the bell, or spy on them at anytime? He easily could, he knew who the Mane Six were and all of their elements right out of his statue, was aware Twilight was planning to use a reformation spell on him, knew about her insecurities as a Princess in Season 4, immediately showed up when Spike mentioned O&O in Season 8, etc. He's shown a consistent ability to spy on things while not being detected, can create clones of himself, heck even has a crystal ball in this very season. It would be easy to watch them, and he has every reason to, the show implies he spies on his own friends all the time, why not the villains he's manipulating? He's not some supreme chessmaster, but he shouldn't be this dumb. Discord only doesn't know about the betrayal because the plot demands he doesn't, it's a massive plothole and completely unbelievable.

 Then he suffers no real consequences for it. He's even the person who get's to suggest and help carry out the Trio's punishment, which is actually disgusting. He already tried to use them, manipulate them and force them into his schemes before, and he's the reason they were able to do any of this. Whether they deserve their fate or not, he has absolutely no right to be the one handing it down. That scene just made me even angrier at him.

[HedonismBot 217]

3 minutes ago, BastementSparkle said:

Discord's plan is fairly in-character in theory, due to his weird sense of morals and logic, but that doesn't mean it's good writing. For one, Discord getting betrayed like he did requires him to be much stupider than he has ever been elsewhere in the series. Why didn't he watch them go for the bell, or spy on them at anytime? He easily could, he knew who the Mane Six were and all of their elements right out of his statue, was aware Twilight was planning to use a reformation spell on him, knew about her insecurities as a Princess in Season 4, immediately showed up when Spike mentioned O&O in Season 8, etc. He's shown a consistent ability to spy on things while not being detected, can create clones of himself, heck even has a crystal ball in this very season. It would be easy to watch them, and he has every reason to, the show implies he spies on his own friends all the time, why not the villains he's manipulating? He's not some supreme chessmaster, but he shouldn't be this dumb. Discord only doesn't know about the betrayal because the plot demands he doesn't, it's a massive plothole and completely unbelievable.

Or, for that matter, he could have led them to a fake bell instead of the real thing. After his first encounter with Tirek, he should know better than to mess around with anything capable of draining his magic.

[BastementSparkle 20,310]

2 minutes ago, HedonismBot said:

Or, for that matter, he could have led them to a fake bell instead of the real thing. After his first encounter with Tirek, he should know better than to mess around with anything capable of draining his magic.

That too, there's no reason he couldn't have just snapped up a fake bell or artifact and a fake challenge. Not to mention Discord can sense magical imbalances, so he should have noticed when Tirek was draining ponies at the Summer Sun Celebration. Really, the way the situation plays out just doesn't make any sense, and I get that's Discord's thing, but still.

[Sparklefan1234 161,597]

Why did they use Grogar only for him to be a fake?

 

They probably thought they were being clever. Unfortunately, their idea upset a lot of people.  

[Thrond 3,257]

Grogar wasn't part of the series until that point. I pay no attention to earlier generations of My Little Pony, so to me Grogar was just some guy who they implied was really dangerous.  Then, taking this dangerous villain and making it so he turns out to be something else all along was pretty shocking, especially when the other three had already been taking up all the screen time and working to usurp him. Not sure the whole thing being a misguided test from Discord really amounted to much - I really just do not care about Twilight ruling Equestria - but it is an idea with some potential, and the Tirek/Chrysalis/Cozy Glow trio was really fun in that finale. 

[BastementSparkle 20,310]

4 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Grogar wasn't part of the series until that point. I pay no attention to earlier generations of My Little Pony, so to me Grogar was just some guy who they implied was really dangerous.  Then, taking this dangerous villain and making it so he turns out to be something else all along was pretty shocking, especially when the other three had already been taking up all the screen time and working to usurp him. Not sure the whole thing being a misguided test from Discord really amounted to much - I really just do not care about Twilight ruling Equestria - but it is an idea with some potential, and the Tirek/Chrysalis/Cozy Glow trio was really fun in that finale. 

I do think at least part of the twist's quality is dependent on how hyped one was for Grogar. To me, I remember years of seeing interpretations of him in fandom, making up headcanon's for him just cause he seemed cool, and then actually seeing him in the show? The premiere successfully hyped me up for the character, I really wanted to see what he was going to do. Doesn't help that with the trio getting so much development, I was sort of suspicious they might go down the route of a team up between the heroes and the unreformed villains, which is one of my favorite tropes in general, I love seeing it, so I was excited for that possibility too. Then the villain I'm so excited to see get's yanked away in the finale and all the posibilities I was excited for went with him!

 I do think the trio are fun characters, and they're good final villains. If the show hadn't brought Grogar in I'd have no issue with them. But as it is I feel like I got something really cool dangled in front of me and then yanked away.

[Ganondorf8 11,118]

The show staff knew that fans had been wanting Grogar to make an appearance, but they also felt that having him come in during the final season and become the big villain would've been a disservice to the villains who had already been established. So, having Grogar be a fake allowed them to include him but also have their established villains remain their main focal point for giving Equestria so much grief. Do I like how they handled the whole thing? Not at all. I despise the fact that Grogar was Discord in disguise and felt it ruined such an iconic character in the franchise.

[Thrond 3,257]

1 minute ago, BastementSparkle said:

I do think at least part of the twist's quality is dependent on how hyped one was for Grogar. To me, I remember years of seeing interpretations of him in fandom, making up headcanon's for him just cause he seemed cool, and then actually seeing him in the show? The premiere successfully hyped me up for the character, I really wanted to see what he was going to do. Doesn't help that with the trio getting so much development, I was sort of suspicious they might go down the route of a team up between the heroes and the unreformed villains, which is one of my favorite tropes in general, I love seeing it, so I was excited for that possibility too. Then the villain I'm so excited to see get's yanked away in the finale and all the posibilities I was excited for went with him!

 I do think the trio are fun characters, and they're good final villains. If the show hadn't brought Grogar in I'd have no issue with them. But as it is I feel like I got something really cool dangled in front of me and then yanked away.

I dunno, I really just haven't been that excited about the two-parters, even though I do enjoy the vast majority of them. I don't find them suspenseful or exciting - in every single case, I enjoyed them for other reasons. Grogar seemed like he would be another Tirek or Pony of Shadows, some looming threat with no personality that would inevitably be overcome by the power of friendship. I didn't see any reason to expect anything special, then that season 9 finale blew my mind.