What would you change about the villains?

[Props Valroa 25,971]

What would you change / done differently about the villains?

I would replace Nightmare Moon with Nightmare Star. Same general concept. The 4 stars free Nightmare Star free from the sun and she returns from her 1,000 year banishment. Her reasoning for becoming Nightmare Star is in this world, Luna had the ability to dream walk and create personal connections with the ponies from the start to form personal connections with ponies, while Celestia grew jealous of the ability to do so. The ponies would want to rest in Luna's night, and labor through Celestia's day as if nothing was special about it. Script is flipped with Luna using the elements to banish Celestia into the Sun. Luna would then rule Equestria for those 1000 years, and become more powerful, wiser, and a bit bigger as a result. The plot of the show is the same just with Luna and Celestia swapping roles more or less.

The moment when Celestia became Nightmare Star. Celestia would eventually return back to Nightmare Star towards the end of the show under Grogar's influence, Celestia would be whisked away by Grogar like the villains were and Grogar would corrupt her and manipulate her back into a more powerful and menacing version of Nightmare Star.



King Sombra:

I would have King Sombra's actions in season 3 more or less be the same. I would have him be more intimidating, aggressive. More savage as shown in season 3, defeated in the same manner. The real difference I would do with him, is that I would have him voiced by a different actor that would reflect his more grim, dark, and aggressive character. One who isn't so blindsided by his previous 2 defeats, he would learn from his defeats, and plan accordingly. He would work with Chrysalis, Tirek, and Cozy Glow under Grogar's command at the end of the show. Grogar would order him to destroy the villains to destroy the tree of harmony as a test of their power and loyalty, which they would return successful.

Queen Chrysalis:

Queen Chrysalis would start out in the same manner, do the same actions. She would be blasted away and vow revenge for her defeat and would return in season 6 for another round. This time, she would be successful in defeating Princess Luna and taking over the land for a while. Season 6 would take upon a different character, with the ponies working to rebel against Chrysalis's rule over Equestria and the changelings with various episodes revolving around life in Equestria under Chrysalis's rule. The ponies would eventually revolt against her and would defeat her. She would flee to the hive. There, Trixie, the reformed Discord, Dr Whooves, and others would show the changelings a better way and they would embrace love. Instead of becoming the pastel colored pieces of Junk they became, they would merely have their holes filled in. Queen Chrysalis rejects redemption and flees. She would later find herself in a similar situation with the other villains, being brought to Grogar's lair and would work together with the others.

Lord Tirek and Cozy Glow:

Lord Tirek would also start out in a similar manner however he would be more slow and calculated with his magic draining, building it up over time before being found out by the Princesses and would battle them in Canterlot which would result in massive damage and destruction to the city. He would grow in Strength, finally being defeated by the elements of harmony and banished into the Moon as a more permanent measure.

ecause of his banishment into the moon, he would be able to interact with some ponies in their dreams, and doing this he found the crazed Filly named Cozy Glow, and instructed her to begin work on bringing Lord Tirek back by draining all magic in Equestria. The whole School thing would take less of a priority in the show, but it would still exist. Cozy Glow would eventually find a way to un-banish him, and the 2 would work beyond Equestria and plot their return.

Discord:

I wouldn't have changed much about Discord asides the whole shipping with Fluttershy which wouldn't happen. I would keep him as an anti-hero, after his 'reformation' he would never full embrace friendship and just have some sort of agreement with Equestria to not destroy or cause havoc across the land in exchange for his freedom. Feeling like he was taking orders, he would plot revenge and strike back in season 7 and would end up being fully reformed by then.

Grogar:

Grogar would be a villain from the ancient past. He would return from his banishment to the stars after Cozy Glow drained all the magic in Equestria in season 8. He had watched all of the villains defeats and whisked them away and forced all 6 of them to work together. He would give each of them various trials in order for them to be awarded their element of disharmony. Grogar would be the most dangerous villain, and creature in all of Equestria and the whole final fight with Grogar would be extremely devastating to the land. Nightmare Star would betray Grogar once the winds shifted to Equestria's favor. 


I would do an elements of Disharmony thing as well and have one last final battle with the mane 6 that would be an all out war and deadly conflict at the end of the show. It would be a far more personal conflict as each opposing element would hate the other, and they would have unique one on one battles with the other. 

Grogar - Evil, antithesis of Twilight.

Chrysalis - Deception, antithesis of Applejack.

Lord Tirek - Greed, antithesis of Rarity.

Nightmare Star - Betrayal, antithesis of Rainbow Dash.

King Sombra - Misery, opposite of Pinkie Pie.

Cozy Glow - Cruelty, antithesis of Fluttershy.


As for Starlight, I don't really know. I would keep her as a rogue villain after her town cast her out. Sunset Shimmer would play a role in Equestria as well. Maybe they would form their own partnership and discover friendship through that way. 

Edited November 14, 2020 by Califorum

[Evil Pink One 12,950]

Chrysalis should be cruelty

And cozy should be deception

Magic is friendship

Evil is control

So grogar should be control...or anything that might fit the theme for evil is "blank" 

[Props Valroa 25,971]

31 minutes ago, Kujamih said:

Chrysalis should be cruelty

And cozy should be deception

Magic is friendship

Evil is control

So grogar should be control...or anything that might fit the theme for evil is "blank" 

Hmmm...thats a better way to think of it!

[Megas 27,050]

Would have never reformed Discord

[Sparklefan1234 161,630]

8 minutes ago, Megas said:

Would have never reformed Discord

 

I also wouldn't have made Discord a walking reference joke machine. 

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2 hours ago, Sparklefan1234 said:

 

I also wouldn't have made Discord a walking reference joke machine. 

Same here! 

[BastementSparkle 20,310]

There's really only two changes I particularly care about. First and biggest one is: Grogar should be real. Not Discord in a Grogar costume. I want this plot twist put through a shredder, set on fire and it's ashes launched straight into the sun. Grogar should be the final villain of Season 9.

Second one is that I really we should have seen the ponies make some attempt to reform Tirek and Cozy. It doesn't have to work, but they should try. It's kind of a sore spot for me that nobody ever really did, especially with Season 9 existing and doing such a good job at humanizing them. Discord got his own episode's worth of a Fluttershy reformation program, Twilight had to really work to talk Starlight down, and even Chrysalis at the very least got offered the hoof of friendship by Starlight once, seems odd that these two just got...well, nothing.

Edited November 15, 2020 by BastementSparkle

[Props Valroa 25,971]

6 minutes ago, BastementSparkle said:

There's really only two changes I particularly care about. First and biggest one is: Grogar should be real. Not Discord in a Grogar costume. I want this plot twist put through a shredder, set on fire and it's ashes launched straight into the sun. Grogar should be the final villain of Season 9.

Second one is that I really we should have seen the ponies make some attempt to reform Tirek and Cozy. It doesn't have to work, but they should try. It's kind of a sore spot for me that nobody ever really did, especially with Season 9 existing and doing such a good job at humanizing them. Discord got his own episode's worth of a Fluttershy reformation program, Twilight had to really work to talk Starlight down, and even Chrysalis at the very least got offered the hoof of friendship by Starlight once, seems odd that these two just got...well, nothing.

I know for sure that Lord Tirek acts the way he does because he wanted to please his father / impress his father. The lesson they should teach Tirek is that not everybody will appreciate who you are, and that trying to please those who clearly don't care for you isn't going to get you anywhere, so you should just appreciate the ones that care for you, and not worry about those who don't. He clearly felt good about giving energy to others, giving Chrysalis's magic back to her felt good. 

Edited November 15, 2020 by Califorum

[Evil Pink One 12,950]

I think tirek made a lot of wrong decisions... Thats why his father didn't like him....

His mindset was wrong and no one corrected him properly.... Is what i think...

[HedonismBot 217]

6 hours ago, Kujamih said:

I think tirek made a lot of wrong decisions... Thats why his father didn't like him....

His mindset was wrong and no one corrected him properly.... Is what i think...

His "FIENDship is Magic" issue suggested that his father knew of his lust for power, but made no attempt to deal with it beyond brute-force discipline. As such, it's no wonder he turned out the way he did.

It might be interesting for the Season 10 comics to have Twilight at least discuss the prospect of reforming Chrysalis, Cozy Glow, and Tirek. Would it be possible to do so without putting all of Equestria at risk? How would the protagonists approach it, given what is known about the villains' personalities? How likely is it that it would be successful?

 

And can we extend this thread to minor villains? Because reforming Lightning Dust would have dramatically improved "The Washouts".

The big problem there is with Scootaloo's motivation for joining the titular team: She had accepted her limitations, and found the Washouts to be a satisfying second choice to her original dream. And then right after that, when Lightning Dust nearly gets her killed, we're given the message that this was a BAD thing, and there is no further discussion of what dreams she might pursue going forward. There's a textbook example of what NOT to do with a disabled character.

If Lightning Dust were to see the error of her ways and implement proper safety measures, then Scootaloo would have a new career open to her - one which would not require being able to fly, but would still satisfy her love of extreme sports. If anyone actually wanted to do the "accepting your limitations" moral with Scootaloo's wings (given the wishy-washy way they handled that over the series, it's hard to tell what they were going for), that would have been the proper way to do it.

Yeah, the comics gave us a story of an earth pony getting into the Wonderbolts after inventing what looked like the ideal piece of assistive tech for Scootaloo, but that issue wouldn't come out for about a year after "The Washouts" aired.

[Castle Bleck 19,163]

Sombra: (A) his IDW arc would've been canonized, (B) he would've become the Soundwave to Grogar's Megatron, or (C) the S5 finale would've been his last appearance. Either way, S9 wouldn't have reduced him to this.

Grogar: No Discord twist, natch.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Anti-Villain

[BastementSparkle 20,310]

55 minutes ago, HedonismBot said:

It might be interesting for the Season 10 comics to have Twilight at least discuss the prospect of reforming Chrysalis, Cozy Glow, and Tirek. Would it be possible to do so without putting all of Equestria at risk? How would the protagonists approach it, given what is known about the villains' personalities? How likely is it that it would be successful?

It wouldn't be any more immediately dangerous than trying to reform Discord, who was only kept in check by having the elements being pointed at him and even that was kind of a stretch, since there wasn't much stopping him from simply snapping his fingers and doing something to the bearers. I think there's actually enough evidence in the show that it would be possible with any of them, especially in Frenemies. Chrysalis would be the hardest, she has the potential but she is...very adamant about staying the way she is, kind of hard to totally blame her after what happened in Season 6, at least from her perspective. Certainly would be interesting to see all this brought up.

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5 minutes ago, BastementSparkle said:

It wouldn't be any more immediately dangerous than trying to reform Discord, who was only kept in check by having the elements being pointed at him and even that was kind of a stretch, since there wasn't much stopping him from simply snapping his fingers and doing something to the bearers. I think there's actually enough evidence in the show that it would be possible with any of them, especially in Frenemies. Chrysalis would be the hardest, she has the potential but she is...very adamant about staying the way she is, kind of hard to totally blame her after what happened in Season 6, at least from her perspective. Certainly would be interesting to see all this brought up.

Would be interesting to see something from Chrysalis's perspective and have the characters understand that. Her strong changeling hive reduced to a pony colony and nothing more with a fake puppet king, changeling culture and way of life completely destroyed. She had her plans foiled multiple times, and after all, she is responsible for finding food for her subjects.

[Evil Pink One 12,950]

3 hours ago, HedonismBot said:

His "FIENDship is Magic" issue suggested that his father knew of his lust for power, but made no attempt to deal with it beyond brute-force discipline. As such, it's no wonder he turned out the way he did.

It might be interesting for the Season 10 comics to have Twilight at least discuss the prospect of reforming Chrysalis, Cozy Glow, and Tirek. Would it be possible to do so without putting all of Equestria at risk? How would the protagonists approach it, given what is known about the villains' personalities? How likely is it that it would be successful?

 

And can we extend this thread to minor villains? Because reforming Lightning Dust would have dramatically improved "The Washouts".

The big problem there is with Scootaloo's motivation for joining the titular team: She had accepted her limitations, and found the Washouts to be a satisfying second choice to her original dream. And then right after that, when Lightning Dust nearly gets her killed, we're given the message that this was a BAD thing, and there is no further discussion of what dreams she might pursue going forward. There's a textbook example of what NOT to do with a disabled character.

If Lightning Dust were to see the error of her ways and implement proper safety measures, then Scootaloo would have a new career open to her - one which would not require being able to fly, but would still satisfy her love of extreme sports. If anyone actually wanted to do the "accepting your limitations" moral with Scootaloo's wings (given the wishy-washy way they handled that over the series, it's hard to tell what they were going for), that would have been the proper way to do it.

Yeah, the comics gave us a story of an earth pony getting into the Wonderbolts after inventing what looked like the ideal piece of assistive tech for Scootaloo, but that issue wouldn't come out for about a year after "The Washouts" aired.

Yeah...thats what i just said about tirek?

Scootaloo being a wash out? I thought that episode was about scootaloo following the wrong roll model... About choosing the right person to idolize? Im sure it wasnt her dream to become a wash out.... It was just given to her and she felt honored got dragged in deeper.... Then she saw what she got into and lightning dust only cared to rub it in rainbowdash and gg....

And i think lightning dust is not a villain... But more to do with her attitude, like diamond tiara, being an ass h. But that requires something really big, like a lot of episodes to build up and a new whole episode dedicated to her.... Like diamond tiara(best redemption ever)....

 

[Toastypk 920]

I would have loved to see more evidence of just how powerful and world-threatening the Pony of Shadows was. It's implied he's a giant threat, we just never really got to see it.

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17 minutes ago, Kujamih said:

Yeah...thats what i just said about tirek?

Scootaloo being a wash out? I thought that episode was about scootaloo following the wrong roll model... About choosing the right person to idolize? Im sure it wasnt her dream to become a wash out.... It was just given to her and she felt honored got dragged in deeper.... Then she saw what she got into and lightning dust only cared to rub it in rainbowdash and gg....

And i think lightning dust is not a villain... But more to do with her attitude, like diamond tiara, being an ass h. But that requires something really big, like a lot of episodes to build up and a new whole episode dedicated to her.... Like diamond tiara(best redemption ever)....

 

I would have liked to see Lightning Dust and Suri Polomare become real, official villains if you know what I mean?

[Misty Shadow 7,065]

Grogar would've actually appeared, Chrysalis would not have been with the League of Villains by the end, focusing on her own goal of rebuilding her hive, and King Sombra, man, where do I begin. 

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1 minute ago, CloudMistDragon said:

Grogar would've actually appeared, Chrysalis would not have been with the League of Villains by the end, focusing on her own goal of rebuilding her hive, and King Sombra, man, where do I begin. 

You mean Chrysalis would have left the league or never been apart of them? Interesting, she could have found unreformed changelings and built her hive back up.

[Evil Pink One 12,950]

Welp they shouldve made season12  and focused on them..... But the final episode was awesome nevertheless

[HedonismBot 217]

3 hours ago, Anti-Villain said:

Sombra: His IDW arc would've been canonized...

That I could get behind. His backstory and redemption was a nice deconstruction of the whole "destiny" thing the series kept pushing.

 

3 hours ago, Califorum said:

Would be interesting to see something from Chrysalis's perspective and have the characters understand that. Her strong changeling hive reduced to a pony colony and nothing more with a fake puppet king, changeling culture and way of life completely destroyed. She had her plans foiled multiple times, and after all, she is responsible for finding food for her subjects.

It certainly would. From the changelings' perspective, they're doing great - they have a reliable source of food that doesn't require them to be constantly at war. From Chrysalis's perspective, everything she had worked for has been destroyed. My take on Chrysalis is that she's so set in her ways that change is not an option for her, even when it's undeniably in her best interests to do so - just like so many people in real life.

 

44 minutes ago, Kujamih said:

Scootaloo being a wash out? I thought that episode was about scootaloo following the wrong roll model... About choosing the right person to idolize? Im sure it wasnt her dream to become a wash out.... It was just given to her and she felt honored got dragged in deeper.... Then she saw what she got into and lightning dust only cared to rub it in rainbowdash and gg....

The problem is that the episode tried to have it both ways - sending the message that Scootaloo was following the wrong role model while also sending the message that Rainbow Dash was in the wrong for not wanting Scootaloo to idolize someone other than herself. And my point there was that Scootaloo's "I can't fly!" rant to Rainbow Dash introduced the issue of finding something to do with one's life in spite of a disability, only for the episode to unceremoniously abandon it when her Washouts debut goes pear-shaped. That's what Lightning Dust's proposed reformation was supposed to fix.

 

20 minutes ago, Califorum said:

You mean Chrysalis would have left the league or never been apart of them? Interesting, she could have found unreformed changelings and built her hive back up.

"Triple Threat" mentioned a group of changelings that refused to reform, but they were reformed off-camera by the time of "To Change a Changeling". Perhaps instead they could have met up with Chrysalis. Changeling civil war, anyone?

Edited November 15, 2020 by HedonismBot

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5 minutes ago, Kujamih said:

Welp they shouldve made season12  and focused on them..... But the final episode was awesome nevertheless

The final episode felt rushed. I despised how Twilight became ruler of Equestria and how the princesses basically retired.

 

 

15 minutes ago, HedonismBot said:

 

It certainly would. From the changelings' perspective, they're doing great - they have a reliable source of food that doesn't require them to be constantly at war. From Chrysalis's perspective, everything she had worked for has been destroyed. My take on Chrysalis is that she's so set in her ways that change is not an option for her, even when it's undeniably in her best interests to do so - just like so many people in real life.

"Triple Threat" mentioned a group of changelings that refused to reform, but they were reformed off-camera by the time of "To Change a Changeling". Perhaps instead they could have met up with Chrysalis. Changeling civil war, anyone?

 

Well, I think that Chrysalis could have been reformed if the whole 'friendship' thing could be untangled from 'pony colonialism' of the changelings within her mind. The unreformed changelings to me could have formed their own group - one that could somehow free Chrysalis from stone in the future.

 

Quote

That I could get behind. His backstory and redemption was a nice deconstruction of the whole "destiny" thing the series kept pushing.

Same here. But the writers unfortunately never went for it. I wish they did more with these villains, did developed backstories and had more screen time for them.

[Steve Piranha 28,747]

The most I could change I can think of right now, is Storm King physically appearing earlier, and bringing back a fourth wall breaking joke or two just as his first official appearance in the comics

[nightshroud96 116]

6 hours ago, HedonismBot said:

That I could get behind. His backstory and redemption was a nice deconstruction of the whole "destiny" thing the series kept pushing.

Ironically Twilight ends up bounded to her destiny there.
While Luna basically had to give up everything to Twilight due to she's the 'chosen one"(I mean, the whole thing is Celestia's idea.

[Evil Pink One 12,950]

8 hours ago, nightshroud96 said:

Ironically Twilight ends up bounded to her destiny there.
While Luna basically had to give up everything to Twilight due to she's the 'chosen one"(I mean, the whole thing is Celestia's idea.

Celestia is a vilain...

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3 hours ago, Kujamih said:

Celestia is a vilain...

Wish that option was explored in the show.