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              If you watched FiM in order starting with Season 1, how long did it take you to realize you were watching real art instead of infantile garbage? For some the turning point was “Bridle Gossip.” I have a friend who wasn’t convinced until “Luna Eclipsed.” For me, I had my suspicions that this show was actually good after “Friendship is Magic, Part 1.” Specifically, after the first ninety seconds.

              My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic starts with a lore-establishing prologue. This is a common trope in epic fantasy, which reminded me of some of my favorite works, such as The Lord of the Rings, RWBY, and The Stormlight Archive. I was surprised to see this in the franchise my sisters adored when they were two years old. The story told in this prologue, which takes about ninety seconds, adds the first layer in a rich tapestry of lore, history, and worldbuilding that continued to increase throughout the show’s entire run. Real, genuine worldbuilding is hard to find even in adult-oriented fantasy, so it was already off to a good start.

              The story told here reflects the mythologies of dozens of different cultures. The rivalry of day and night, sun and moon, has existed for about as long as humans have worshipped gods. I’m a night person myself, so I felt for this Nightmare Moon character instantly. As soon as the prologue was over and we met the protagonist, I immediately noticed that her name was “Twilight” and her color scheme was reminiscent of the night sky. I wondered if she could be an intermediary between night and day (spoilers: she was), and I hoped that the writers would make the conflict more complicated that LIGHT GOOD DARK BAD (spoilers: they did). Despite this speculation, I was caught off guard when they redeemed Luna at the end of the second episode. But Luna’s redemption is a deep rabbit hole that deserves to be its own, separate discussion.

              Returning to the prologue of episode 1, it does more than build lore and draw upon mythology. The basic story it tells is powerful and heart-wrenching. A glorious pony outshone her younger sister. The younger became jealous and fought against her. The elder had to banish her away. Who’s really at fault? The first inclination is to blame the younger, but as we learned later, the elder was torn up by her decision to banish her sister. She missed her sister immensely and blamed herself for what happened. Once upon a time, these sisters loved each other. As we saw in comic books like “Legends of Magic” and fan animations like “The Fall of the Crystal Empire” and “The Moon Rises,” there was good and bad inside Luna, which makes it all the more tragic that the bad won out. This story hurts so bad that it’s made me cry multiple times (thanks, “Lullaby for a Princess”). Of course, I didn’t know all this when I watched episode 1, but all this expansion was only possible because the original story presented in the prologue was so powerful.

              I still had some reservations after the first ninety seconds. The show’s childlike attitude and style weren’t easy to get used to. But I kept watching because right off the bat the show demonstrated immense promise and potential. I’m hyped for G5, but living up to G4 is a tall order. It established itself as a cut above average in ninety seconds.

              What about y’all? Did a friend show you episodes out of order? Or did you start from the beginning? If so, when were you hooked?

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It took all of about twenty seconds for me to realise that this show is not just an ordinary show. :fluttershy: It told you a lot in the first few seconds but in a way that was so easy to follow and then the moment that theme started, I knew then that this show was the best thing that ever happened to me. :wub:

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On 2021-03-07 at 10:33 PM, Thunderhead said:

             

              Returning to the prologue of episode 1, it does more than build lore and draw upon mythology. The basic story it tells is powerful and heart-wrenching. A glorious pony outshone her younger sister. The younger became jealous and fought against her. The elder had to banish her away. Who’s really at fault? The first inclination is to blame the younger, but as we learned later, the elder was torn up by her decision to banish her sister. She missed her sister immensely and blamed herself for what happened. Once upon a time, these sisters loved each other. As we saw in comic books like “Legends of Magic” and fan animations like “The Fall of the Crystal Empire” and “The Moon Rises,” there was good and bad inside Luna, which makes it all the more tragic that the bad won out. This story hurts so bad that it’s made me cry multiple times (thanks, “Lullaby for a Princess”). Of course, I didn’t know all this when I watched episode 1, but all this expansion was only possible because the original story presented in the prologue was so powerful.

              I still had some reservations after the first ninety seconds. The show’s childlike attitude and style weren’t easy to get used to. But I kept watching because right off the bat the show demonstrated immense promise and potential. I’m hyped for G5, but living up to G4 is a tall order. It established itself as a cut above average in ninety seconds.

              What about y’all? Did a friend show you episodes out of order? Or did you start from the beginning? If so, when were you hooked?

Sadly when Luna got forcibly purified, Celestia acted like Luna alone is at fault.  Which bothers me alot since Celestia is at fault too for NMM happening by not noticing Luna's suffering.
Whats worse is how it felt like the actual issues that led NMM to happen didn't felt like they were properly resolved.  Its just firing a rainbow at Luna and apparently that's it.
Yes, Luna is getting some attention now but sadly its still not as much as Celestia had gotten.

They also need to show Celestia's actual guilt for the mess too.  We only seen this once and that was in the flashback when she sent NMM to the moon with her shedding tears.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 2021-03-12 at 11:39 AM, nightshroud96 said:

Sadly when Luna got forcibly purified, Celestia acted like Luna alone is at fault.  Which bothers me alot since Celestia is at fault too for NMM happening by not noticing Luna's suffering.
Whats worse is how it felt like the actual issues that led NMM to happen didn't felt like they were properly resolved.  Its just firing a rainbow at Luna and apparently that's it.
Yes, Luna is getting some attention now but sadly its still not as much as Celestia had gotten.

They also need to show Celestia's actual guilt for the mess too.  We only seen this once and that was in the flashback when she sent NMM to the moon with her shedding tears.

How is Celestia at fault? She is the reason but she's not at fault in anyway. She didn't shun her sister. Her not noticing her suffering does not mean that she is at fault. Luna is fully responsible for her own actions.

You can't measure attention or try to even the playing field... people are going to like what they like and you can't fault them either. Also... season 2 episode 4 resolves some issues she had which led to nightmare moon. Also, also... Celestia mentioned never liking the summer sun celebration because it reminded her that she had to banish her sister to the moon... that's guilt.

It doesn't have to outright say something is happening to understand that it is. Read between the lines a little.

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(edited)
5 hours ago, Kadeda said:

How is Celestia at fault? She is the reason but she's not at fault in anyway. She didn't shun her sister. Her not noticing her suffering does not mean that she is at fault. Luna is fully responsible for her own actions.

You can't measure attention or try to even the playing field... people are going to like what they like and you can't fault them either. Also... season 2 episode 4 resolves some issues she had which led to nightmare moon. Also, also... Celestia mentioned never liking the summer sun celebration because it reminded her that she had to banish her sister to the moon... that's guilt.

It doesn't have to outright say something is happening to understand that it is. Read between the lines a little.

She IS still at fault for not noticing her suffering due to not trying hard enough to notice whats going on. Even if she was too busy with duties, she should have tried anyway. And Royal Problem showed she didn't really seem to appreciate  Luna's work(till the cutie mark swap mess) even till now. So that must have added fuel to the fire.

The ponies were outright focusing too much on Celestia no matter how hard Luna tried back then(even then she is still not equally appreciated as shown with Horse Play).
If Celestia did mentioned she didn't like the SSC, why the hell didn't she put her foot down to make the ponies stop and realize they are adding salt to Luna's wounds there for a 1000 years? 
If she didn't like it since it reminded her of Luna's banishment, why didn't she tell the ponies that? 
Also Luna Eclipsed DIDN'T resolve any of the issues fully.  Luna is still not appreciated as much as Celestia. While she is now getting some attention, the Summer Sun Celebration and Horse Play thing still shows she is in Celestia's shadow.(Even if the celebration is focusing on Luna's return, its still focusing on DAY over night). So pretty much its a work in progress but the issue is still not fully fixed.

No, in this case they NEED to properly show more on Celestia's guilt than just a single scene of her crying after Luna got sent to the moon.  Such as more properly showing guilt.
I am reading between the lines and it shows the issues that led NMM to happen isn't properly resolved and the fact its not enough showing of how Celestia felt guilty on the NMM fiasco.
When Luna got purified, Celestia should have asked for Luna's forgiveness too. Not solely acting like Luna alone is at fault.  That's what her speech came off as.
If Celestia said "May I also.. ask for your forgiveness too, sister? For having to send you away like that, for not being there for you. If I had tried harder to notice what you were going through, maybe you wouldn't have fallen into darkness.. We both have messed up and I want to make things up to you as best as I can.".
Like showing both sisters acknowledge they both screwed up, not Luna alone. In fact all of Equestria is at fault for taking Luna's work for granted.

Edited by nightshroud96
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(edited)
2 hours ago, nightshroud96 said:

She IS still at fault for not noticing her suffering due to not trying hard enough to notice whats going on. Even if she was too busy with duties, she should have tried anyway. And Royal Problem showed she didn't really seem to appreciate  Luna's work(till the cutie mark swap mess) even till now. So that must have added fuel to the fire.

The ponies were outright focusing too much on Celestia no matter how hard Luna tried back then(even then she is still not equally appreciated as shown with Horse Play).
If Celestia did mentioned she didn't like the SSC, why the hell didn't she put her foot down to make the ponies stop and realize they are adding salt to Luna's wounds there for a 1000 years? 
If she didn't like it since it reminded her of Luna's banishment, why didn't she tell the ponies that? 
Also Luna Eclipsed DIDN'T resolve any of the issues fully.  Luna is still not appreciated as much as Celestia. While she is now getting some attention, the Summer Sun Celebration and Horse Play thing still shows she is in Celestia's shadow.(Even if the celebration is focusing on Luna's return, its still focusing on DAY over night). So pretty much its a work in progress but the issue is still not fully fixed.

No, in this case they NEED to properly show more on Celestia's guilt than just a single scene of her crying after Luna got sent to the moon.  Such as more properly showing guilt.
I am reading between the lines and it shows the issues that led NMM to happen isn't properly resolved and the fact its not enough showing of how Celestia felt guilty on the NMM fiasco.
When Luna got purified, Celestia should have asked for Luna's forgiveness too. Not solely acting like Luna alone is at fault.  That's what her speech came off as.
If Celestia said "May I also.. ask for your forgiveness too, sister? For having to send you away like that, for not being there for you. If I had tried harder to notice what you were going through, maybe you wouldn't have fallen into darkness.. We both have messed up and I want to make things up to you as best as I can.".
Like showing both sisters acknowledge they both screwed up, not Luna alone. In fact all of Equestria is at fault for taking Luna's work for granted.

But it's still not her fault. She didn't do the evil... Luna did. It's Luna's fault. Celestia is not going to dump on everyone else parade because of her own personal feelings. That's not what a leader does. It sounds like you ignoring any fault on Luna side or the harm she caused to others. What about them... they need to apologize to her as well? She did the bad... don't forget that. You can't blame circumstance... Celestia didn't do anything to need to apologize for. Also, you can't blame people who don't want to forgive you for doing evil stuff. You also can't force people to care about stuff... you can't force people to care about you.

The issues are with Luna... not anyone else. She had to work on her jealousy with her sister. She felt like she wasn't being appreciated... doesn't mean she wasn't. Either way, she made the decision to do evil things... that means it's her fault. She is the one that needs to apologize. Why the hell would the rest of equestrian need to apologize to Luna for? If anything, I wouldn't be shocked if some of them didn't trust her. You can't conform the world to spin for you.

Edited by Kadeda
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3 hours ago, nightshroud96 said:

She IS still at fault for not noticing her suffering due to not trying hard enough to notice whats going on. 

This isn't a healthy or fair mindset to have. People are not omniscient. Nor are they omnipotent. Not even Celestia. If you're suffering, it is your job to make that clear, so that others can help you. It's shown in later episodes that Luna is quite terrible at communicating with her sister, and that's what needed resolved: communication. If Luna spoke about her suffering instead of acting out violently, this wouldn't have happened. But what did Luna do instead? She attacked, going so far as to say "My only royal duty now is to destroy you!". That's not reasonable. She wasn't reasonable. She's one pony in a world of (presumably) millions. Of course others care about her, but if she's hurting, she needs to say so.

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