Conjecture on a hypothetical human invasion of Equestria?

[Krystal 1,468]

Well a missile won't lock onto a dragon for the same reason it won't lock onto a person or an elephant. Also dragons are cold blooded.

Edited June 23, 2012 by Jarrettlicious

[Gingerpotato 889]

I would have thought that if humans were invading an area they would have a useful reason for doing it and therefore wouldn't poison the land with radiation from atomic bombs.

 

Still, I would say that they would fail in their assault. For one we don't even know if any of these missiles and whatnot could pierce dragon scales, jets would be taken down by dragons and griffons. Ponies have magic, humans have guns so that's sort of a standstill. Most importantly though, the ponies have three beings that would tear the human army to shreds if needs be. Celestia and Luna who can raise the sun and the moon and Discord who can literally do whatever the hell he wants, released from stone to stop the invasion. Basically, I'd say the humans would be pretty screwed if he was let out.

[Scritches 91]

Radiation? That's way too slow. Better give that dragon a milk bath as well

 

 

 

Even the older models of battleship's gun turret can easily reach 20 miles. The Iowa class's even carried an armor-piercing round that I'm pretty sure as sorrel hell it can easily penetrate a dragon's hide from miles away. Wanna look? It's the grey thingy on the top, but it was rather long in the inside

 

 

 

Not something you want to get lodged under your scales

 

 

 

Firstly, the large guns on battleships aren't meant for air targets, you'd be lucky to even hit a dragon in midflight or anything else flying for that matter. THIS WEAPON however would bane of the existence of anything that flies in equestria if the hypothetical invaders manage to field one.

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP6GpAnmAPU&feature=related

 

This bad boy can shoot down most cruise missle designs. May the sisters help the unwary pegasus that come across one of these.

[Typhoid Libby 1,265]

Well a missile won't lock onto a dragon for the same reason it won't lock onto a person or an elephant. Also dragons are cold blooded.

 

Because it is calibrated to work such.

It is quite simple to calibrate a missile to lock into a human.

 

And I seriously doubt firebreathing huge ass lizard that flies is in any sense "Coldblooded".

It takes a lot of energy to fly. Nevermind get that much weight airborne in the first place.

That thing would night up like a Christmas tree in thermal.

[Krystal 1,468]

And no navigation systems would work either since they're not on Earth so there wouldn't be any sattalites for GPS and what not. The only think that would work is radio.

 

Because it is calibrated to work such.

It is quite simple to calibrate a missile to lock into a human.

 

And I seriously doubt firebreathing huge ass lizard that flies is in any sense "Coldblooded".

It takes a lot of energy to fly. Nevermind get that much weight airborne in the first place.

That thing would night up like a Christmas tree in thermal.

 

Well dragons are lizards so therefore by definition: coldblooded. It's not impossible for a lizard to fly either (pterodactyl). Plus if a missile did lock on a dragon might have a fair chance of evading it since they are more manuverable than any flying machine we have ever made.

[Typhoid Libby 1,265]

And no navigation systems would work either since they're not on Earth so there wouldn't be any sattalites for GPS and what not. The only think that would work is radio.

 

If you got a asset in orbit, you have satellite, GPS and a compass.

All can be made to work with simple radio. GPS is a fancy radio and compass can be imitated by tracking a radio signal source.

 

Seems like the thread agrees this is a separate planet and humans invade from space. You'd have that asset in orbit.

I would have thought that if humans were invading an area they would have a useful reason for doing it and therefore wouldn't poison the land with radiation from atomic bombs.

 

See above; Tungsten Rods from orbit at orbital velocities, no nasty radiation, only a big hole.

Still, I would say that they would fail in their assault. For one we don't even know if any of these missiles and whatnot could pierce dragon scales, jets would be taken down by dragons and griffons. Ponies have magic, humans have guns so that's sort of a standstill. Most importantly though, the ponies have three beings that would tear the human army to shreds if needs be. Celestia and Luna who can raise the sun and the moon and Discord who can literally do whatever the hell he wants, released from stone to stop the invasion. Basically, I'd say the humans would be pretty screwed if he was let out.

 

You don't need to pierce the scales.

(Even if that would happen anyway, aircraft hulls are a bit sturdier than anything organic) Only the membranes on the wings.

If it does not fly, it will not contest airspace.

Jet's would drop everything that tries to fight for air supremacy, they were after all, designed just for that. Griffons and stuff just evolved to fly. Whole different concept. One just flies, other was designed to kill flying stuff.

Humans have tanks, helicopters and artillery, we never fight on equal terms.

Celestia and Luna have never shown this ability in any meaningful sense. And messing with orbital trajectories for an extended period of time is very harmful to any biosphere and offers no actual advantages in any possible engagement.

And why exactly would be Discord be released?

Seeing as his statue is stored in one of the major population centers anyway, the point is a bit moot as he'd be dust by the time that crosses anyone's mind.

[Luurilka 325]

...Oh? The forcefields can't take that kind of blast? What episode do you base this off of?...

 

Changelings broke through the force-field in season 2 finale by just smashing into it, (although the force-field was weakened by Chrysalis's magic) I doubt a nuclear bomb would have too much trouble getting through it.

[butter scotch 79]

We would nuke the place or something?

A sniper could easily blow Celestia's brains all over the place...

[Krystal 1,468]

Changelings broke through the force-field in season 2 finale by just smashing into it, (although the force-field was weakened by Chrysalis's magic) I doubt a nuclear bomb would have too much trouble getting through it.

 

^this^

 

We would nuke the place or something?

A sniper could easily blow Celestia's brains all over the place...

 

^and this^

[Typhoid Libby 1,265]

Well dragons are lizards so therefore by definition: coldblooded. It's not impossible for a lizard to fly either (pterodactyl). Plus if a missile did lock on a dragon might have a fair chance of evading it since they are more manuverable than any flying machine we have ever made.

 

Everything that uses energy to move creates a heat signature.

It's a huge flying lizard that breathes fire. Trust me, it's hot.

 

And seeing as it IS a huge flying lizard it has a huge mass. Mass is slow to change course if there is a lot of it.

Missiles are designed to hit very fast, very manoeuvrable targets.

[Scritches 91]

Changelings broke through the force-field in season 2 finale by just smashing into it, (although the force-field was weakened by Chrysalis's magic) I doubt a nuclear bomb would have too much trouble getting through it.

 

With Shining Armor at full strength there is no telling what it's capable of stopping. The changlings only made it through because Shining's concentration and magical energy were depleted. The shield was mid-collapse when the changelings broke through.

 

Everything that uses energy to move creates a heat signature.

It's a huge flying lizard that breathes fire. Trust me, it's hot.

 

And seeing as it IS a huge flying lizard it has a huge mass. Mass is slow to change course if there is a lot of it.

Missiles are designed to hit very fast, very manoeuvrable targets.

 

It really comes down to how easily fooled the missles are. The fire that the dragons can spew is more than sufficient to disrupt it's guidance system and if hit by the fire possibly force it to prematurely detonate. It's the same basic idea behind using flares to confuse incoming missles.

[Krystal 1,468]

It still doesn't matter if our navy will be able to own the ponies and dragons (which I agree they will if within range) because once they move inland they won't stand a chance

[butter scotch 79]

 

It doesn't matter, they're still dragons. And if dragon rules still apply then they have bulletproof scales and breathe fire hot enough to melt anything they need to. Plus there were THOUSANDS of them in the dragon migration episode. With numbers like that they can't loose

 

Actually, being a mad scientist as I am! I am working on 2 ideas

Anti matter ray

Plasma flame thrower

Anti matter in contact with matter is an explosion and gamma radiation, nothing biological could withstand it!

[Krystal 1,468]

It really comes down to how easily fooled the missles are. The fire that the dragons can spew is more than sufficient to disrupt it's guidance system and if hit by the fire possibly force it to prematurely detonate. It's the same basic idea behind using flares to confuse incoming missles.

 

^this^

[Scritches 91]

Actually, being a mad scientist as I am! I am working on 2 ideas

Anti matter ray

Plasma flame thrower

Anti matter in contact with matter is an explosion and gamma radiation, nothing biological could withstand it!

 

Including you and air all around you.

*would give you a thumbs up if he could* ...wait what's a thumb? I think I need to call Lyra.

 

[Typhoid Libby 1,265]

It really comes down to how easily fooled the missles are. The fire that the dragons can spew is more than sufficient to disrupt it's guidance system and if hit by the fire possibly force it to prematurely detonate. It's the same basic idea behind using flares to confuse incoming missles.

 

IF the dragon figures out to spew fire in that 4 to 7 second time-frame it has from when it sees the missile to the detonation.

Also, it needs to move away from the blast radius in that time-frame, and that blast radius is a bit large, as it is, once again, designed for hitting fast moving targets and cripple them.

All that missile needs to do is hit the membrane on the wings and the mass of the dragon will do the rest.

Also that dragon then needs to figure out that it was the firebreathing that allowed it to survive and then he needs to tell it to everyone of his buddies.

 

And any Air Superiority Fighter worth it's salt has autocannon/s.

I don't care, and neither do the the shells, how thick you skin is, those things kill tanks.

All it takes is one broken bone to drop that dragon.

[Nah 3,181]

I think an idea with an episode with humans is stupid, after all, that is why G1 ponies were pretty bad, I don't like the idea, and invasion? Gimmie a break.

[Scritches 91]

I think an idea with an episode with humans is stupid, after all, that is why G1 ponies were pretty bad, I don't like the idea, and invasion? Gimmie a break.

 

If you had taken the time to read the first post, it's not about making an episode with humans in it. It's about whether or not a hypothetical human invasion of equestria and the surrounding world would succeed or fail. Edited June 23, 2012 by Leatherneck

[Tom 890]

Human takeover of Equestria...I'm with Finest here, it'll fail.

[Nah 3,181]

If you had taken the time to read the first post, it's not about making an episode with humans in it. It's about whether or not a hypothetical human invasion of equestria and the surrounding world would succeed or fail.

 

It would fail, naturally, if an invasion ever happened, Celestia would send the invaders to the moon.

[Typhoid Libby 1,265]

It would fail, naturally, if an invasion ever happened, Celestia would send the invaders to the moon.

 

Thing is, the invaders would love themselves some moon as a FOB.

That's not solving it, it's making it worse.

[Comet Tail 808]

IF the dragon figures out to spew fire in that 4 to 7 second time-frame it has from when it sees the missile to the detonation.

Also, it needs to move away from the blast radius in that time-frame, and that blast radius is a bit large, as it is, once again, designed for hitting fast moving targets and cripple them.

All that missile needs to do is hit the membrane on the wings and the mass of the dragon will do the rest.

Also that dragon then needs to figure out that it was the firebreathing that allowed it to survive and then he needs to tell it to everyone of his buddies.

 

And any Air Superiority Fighter worth it's salt has autocannon/s.

I don't care, and neither do the the shells, how thick you skin is, those things kill tanks.

All it takes is one broken bone to drop that dragon.

 

Note: air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles don't explode on impact. They explode on proximity. They're essentially extremely large and capable flaK rounds, in terms of their warhead. An explosive goes off that sends a shower of splintered metalic cubes at the target. It's like an enormous, overpowered 0.2-gauge shotgun firing sharp, large shot. It's certainly enough to take away a huge chunk of wing, cause a tremendous amount of damage on more sensative areas, but I don't think it would be great in terms of penetration on the main body's thick scales.

 

Autocannons:

M61 Vulcan to be precise: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M61_Vulcan

At least, for NATO.

I don't know so much about the Ruskies, but their backbone fighter; the Mig-29, uses this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gryazev-Shipunov_GSh-30-1

 

But, uh, lemme say, NOTHING will be standing after a run from this baby: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAU-8

Carried by the A-10 Warthog http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-10

Best part is, both are designed to kill targets with necessitating any kind of lock.

 

As for getting a "lock" on dragons: maybe

I know radar is so effective because it only interacts with metals. Or, to be precise, any material that's electrically conductive, allowing it to "see" through atmospheric haze of any kind. It's sensitive enough, though, that it detects water, and even things like trees, so I'm pretty sure a dragon would produce a very detectable radar signature, especially with their size.

 

Everything that uses energy to move creates a heat signature.

It's a huge flying lizard that breathes fire. Trust me, it's hot.

 

And seeing as it IS a huge flying lizard it has a huge mass. Mass is slow to change course if there is a lot of it.

Missiles are designed to hit very fast, very manoeuvrable targets.

 

He beat me to that part. "cold blooded" just means they don't depend on a very narrow temperature range, and don't internally regulate it. It doesn't mean their cold. They can still get very hot. A good example is that one dinosaur - I honestly don't know it's name - that has the large "Sail" like thing on it's back. They think it had that to regulate temperature, keep it from overheating, despite the fact it was almost certainly cold-blooded.

 

Same goes for crocadiles and alligators keeping cool in water.

 

 

I'll add more later. Gotta run now. Once we get a good amount of stuff down, I'd love to do a wargame to simulate this scenario.

[Nah 3,181]

Thing is, the invaders would love themselves some moon as a FOB.

That's not solving it, it's making it worse.

 

Well the fact is, I don't really care if Equestria gets invaded by humans.

 

However if they were, I would know how it would start.

 

They US Navy would probably start by firing a few Tomahawk missiles into Equestria, then have drone attacks, soon, air raids would occur, and land invasions would soon follow.

Edited June 23, 2012 by SamtheLegoman

[Typhoid Libby 1,265]

 

As for getting a "lock" on dragons: maybe

I know radar is so effective because it only interacts with metals. Or, to be precise, any material that's electrically conductive, allowing it to "see" through atmospheric haze of any kind. It's sensitive enough, though, that it detects water, and even things like trees, so I'm pretty sure a dragon would produce a very detectable radar signature, especially with their size.

 

Note to you; If you can't talk without using Wikipedia, don't quote me.

 

And if you compare it to a shotgun, go take a test and fire one at steel plate at close proximity. It does not matter what the material is, only what it is protecting.

Pure blunt force trauma alone will drop any dragon from the sky and nothing organic survives terminal velocity drops.

AAM's will kill a dragon and they will hit.

 

GAU-8 is a ground assault weapon.

You fire it at airborne targets without proper angle of attack and airspeed and they will be picking parts of you from the country side for the next decade.

 

And ALL Airborne weapons require a lock these days.

You just don't shoot from a hip. It's a several thousand dollars per burst and that weapon will fuck up someone's day somewhere.

 

Ask anyone who served in any high tech branch.

You wait for a damn target lock or you get court-marshalled.

 

 

Well the fact is, I don't really care if Equestria gets invaded by humans.

 

However if they were, I would know how it would start.

 

They US Navy would probably start by firing a few Tomahawk missiles into Equestria, then have drone attacks, soon, air raids would occur, and land invasions would soon follow.

 

Then why are replying to this here thread? That's the topic.

 

Doubtful, text book Shock and Awe but not very effective against nation with low population areas such as Equestria.

As presented by these latest foul-ups in middle east.

[Scritches 91]

(Even if that would happen anyway, aircraft hulls are a bit sturdier than anything organic)

 

This is damage done to a plane by a bird at much lower speeds than available to any military fight aircraft. Dragons are much larger so the aircraft in question are more succeptible than you give them credit for.

 

If it does not fly, it will not contest airspace.

 

A unicorn concentrating hard enough can likely bring down/tear apart an aircraft.

Humans have tanks, helicopters and artillery, we never fight on equal terms.

 

Ponies have tanks(although how advanced they are is debatable) and artillary(yet again it's effectiveness is questionable)

Celestia and Luna have never shown this ability in any meaningful sense. And messing with orbital trajectories for an extended period of time is very harmful to any biosphere and offers no actual advantages in any possible engagement.

 

That does not eliminate the possibility of them being able to knock things out of orbit with their magic.

And why exactly would be Discord be released?

Seeing as his statue is stored in one of the major population centers anyway, the point is a bit moot as he'd be dust by the time that crosses anyone's mind.

 

You make a broad assumption that his "stone prison" is simply a statue. If you look closely enough in the first Discord episode, it seems more like the "statue" is flaking off of him. It's his prison, he is not the statue. You can't kill a deific being such as he is like that. And killing/wounding Celestia may not be as easy as it seems either. Both Celestia and Luna have shown themselves capable of being able to phase their bodies out of normal existance. Celestia phasing through a window in the second episode of the show, and Luna being able to change form likely including the vaporous cloud form that Nightmare Moon morphs into. These three will be no trivial matter to defeat. That aside Luna can summon storms at will.