Conjecture on a hypothetical human invasion of Equestria?

[Archangel 143]

Humans would win. Easily. We have out tech'd Equestria, Equestrian combat methods are archiac, (Judging by the weapons and armor used by the guards and how the incident with Spike was handled.) and I believe that since magic is something they study. That it's just like any other type of power, Electricity or Nuclear.

 

Humans are extremely inventive and resilient. We would probably find a way to render a unicorn attack inert.

 

Oh, did I mention we have weapons capable of destroying all of Canterlot and the surrounding area in one strike? And that said weapon wouldn't even need to be on the visible horizon from it's ground zero?

 

Ponies are also shown to be far more peaceful and trusting than the opposite. We could easily take advantage of that.

 

The Elements of Harmony would be the only thing that could have a hope of stopping us. But I doubt Twilight and her friends would be able to get their act together in time to save any major cities. Plus, they seem to need to be close to the source of destruction, and only focus on one target. We have ARMIES.

 

As my closing statement I would like to remind you that, again, we have weapons that launch from beyond the horizon. Equestria would be screwed.

[Typhoid Libby 1,265]

This is damage done to a plane by a bird at much lower speeds than available to any military fight aircraft. Dragons are much larger so the aircraft in question are more succeptible than you give them credit for.

 

Need I say the bird is very, very, very dead.

 

Average fighter jet will be doing Mach 2 during a sortie run in contested airspace.

Someone wrote a very lenghty book about aerodynamics and laid out in detail why organics cannot Mach.

If something is going Mach 2, you have about a 30 second window to act from when you see it to actually dying because of it, if it has decided to shoot you with bullets instead of being all British about it and firing a missile based on AWACS data.

 

One is a organic thing with a bad temper, gastro-intestinal problems and is a aerodynamic impossibility and the other is a warmachine designed to shoot at slow stupid things from miles and miles away.

There simply is no contest on which will be left standing if it's one-on-one.

 

Need I remind that war is not fair.

A unicorn concentrating hard enough can likely bring down/tear apart an aircraft.

 

Be ripped apart by the wingmen of that plane in question.

Ponies have tanks(although how advanced they are is debatable) and artillary(yet again it's effectiveness is questionable)

 

Air superiority.

Helicopters.

Radars designed to track incoming artillery and modern human armoured assets do things guerilla style.

Even if they have equivalent equipment, we have the perfect methods and tactics to counter them.

That does not eliminate the possibility of them being able to knock things out of orbit with their magic.

 

Good luck seeing anything that high that's coated in anti-shine.

Besides, anything that COULD do that will be killed before there will be any targets to drop from orbit.

 

You DON'T EVER bring carrier or indirect fire assets into direct fire range.

You make a broad assumption that his "stone prison" is simply a statue. If you look closely enough in the first Discord episode, it seems more like the "statue" is flaking off of him. It's his prison, he is not the statue. You can't kill a deific being such as he is like that. And killing/wounding Celestia may not be as easy as it seems either. Both Celestia and Luna have shown themselves capable of being able to phase their bodies out of normal existance. Celestia phasing through a window in the second episode of the show, and Luna being able to change form likely including the vaporous cloud form that Nightmare Moon morphs into. These three will be no trivial matter to defeat. That aside Luna can summon storms at will.

 

That is all common well documented facts to ponies and as such, will be either broadcasted or stored in information database.

It will be accessed and it will be nullified.

 

Besides, how will you protect yourself from something that you don't know is coming?

You will never see a Force Recon sniper if you are the target.

 

And as Canterlot houses the statue, it will be the first target. That thing will be vaporized.

Tungsten rod hitting the ground at orbital velocities, some 3000m/s, will vaporize everything in few miles and if that does not get you the heat will.

Those things penetrate earth up to Moho.

Deity or not, you can't mess with conservation of matter nor the basic physical variables for this discussion to have ANY sense.

Those hit and it's game over for anything in Canterlot Mountain.

Those tungsten rods look like a shooting stars until about 20 secs before impact too, so Celly must be REALLY fast to have any hope.

[Archangel 143]

So I noticed I forgot to cover a few things in my post.

 

*Ahem* We don't know the true strength of Shining Armor's shield, what we DO know however, is that it is difficult to maintain, and takes time to set it up. It wasn't there during the Discord incident and they only had it up during the wedding because Equestria received a threat note.

 

Humans would not leave a threat note. We would bomb the place before they even knew we were there. Shining would be eliminated.

 

And then there's the Alicorn sisters. I think they would be in the same position as Shining since they are both in Canterlot most of the time. And Canterlot would be a priority target. But for the sake of argument, let's assume they've lived.

 

They can move the sun and moon. Whoop de do? What's that going to do? Because unless they want to smash said orbiting body into the planet...

 

The only other attack we've seen Celestia capable of is a death ray type thing fired at Chrysalis. But being concentrated on only one target would not really be all that of a disadvantage.

 

And Luna could... Throw spiders on a web. Well, clearly we're doomed, spiders, I mean heck that would stop me! xD

 

Also, we've only seen Alicorns, and Unicorns, move things they could SEE with their magic. They can't move stuff behind doors and walls. At least, not without extreme concentration, complete control over the object, and knowledge of room layout.

 

So anything high enough up, or heck, even just fast enough, and they'd be able to do diddly squat. And I'm giving them the best case scenario here, like, they are all Twilight Sparkle scenario.

 

Again, Equestria's screwed. So. I'm game! Who wants to write the letter to congress?

[Scritches 91]

Need I say the bird is very, very, very dead.

 

And any aircraft

Someone wrote a very lenghty book about aerodynamics and laid out in detail why organics cannot Mach.

 

The regular laws of physics as we know them do not apply to ponies. Which is why Pinkie Pie is able to do as she wills with physics itself. Rainbow Dash's max speed has been scientifically calculated from the mach cone and she exceeds mach 5. She and I imagine many others who are driven like her can easily make such speeds and manuevers. And given that she and those others can easily have their wings become as hard as a metallic substance, it's not a far fetch that they would do a good deal of damage to any aircraft they managed to slice with their wings.

Need I remind that war is not fair.

 

Is this some kind of joke? If so, I don't find it funny.

 

Be ripped apart by the wingmen of that plane in question.

 

They would have to be able to find them first. Technology is not everything.

 

Air superiority. (debateable)

Helicopters.

Radars designed to track incoming artillery and modern human armoured assets do things guerilla style.

 

Armoured assests don't do things guerilla style.

Even if they have equivalent equipment, we have the perfect methods and tactics to counter them.

 

Good luck seeing anything that high that's coated in anti-shine.

Besides, anything that COULD do that will be killed before there will be any targets to drop from orbit.

 

Well I hope they know well enough to stay well out of the system, that aside you think for an istant that Luna wouldn't notice something is wrong with her night sky?

You DON'T EVER bring carrier or indirect fire assets into direct fire range.

 

I hope they know how to coordinate their war effort while being outside of the solar system, communication can be a real bitch at those distances.

That is all common well documented facts to ponies and as such, will be either broadcasted or stored in information database.

It will be accessed and it will be nullified.

 

You mean the library in Canterlot which you keep saying will get obliterated in the first volley?

Besides, how will you protect yourself from something that you don't know is coming?

You will never see a Force Recon sniper if you are the target.

 

Two words, Pinkie sense. Also Celestia has some level of precognitive skills, after all she was able to prophesize her sister's escape from the moon.

 

And as Canterlot houses the statue, it will be the first target. That thing will be vaporized.

 

you mean the outer shell of his prison? Sure thing it will be vaporized instantly. It's only stone that aside CONFLICT and CHAOS fuel Discord. All of this would only strengthen him.

Tungsten rod hitting the ground at orbital velocities, some 3000m/s, will vaporize everything in few miles and if that does not get you the heat will.

Those things penetrate earth up to Moho.

Deity or not, you can't mess with conservation of matter nor the basic physical variables for this discussion to have ANY sense.

 

Please see the above physics related post. Physics do not apply the same way to ponies as it does to us.

Those hit and it's game over for anything in Canterlot Mountain.

 

I agree, the moutain would be toast.

 

Those tungsten rods look like a shooting stars until about 20 secs before impact too, so Celly must be REALLY fast to have any hope.

 

Yet again, she can phase her body until it does not interact with physical matter at all.

http://pwny.at/o1

[FalconnHoof 30]

I think there is no way the ponies would win. At all. If you think they could reply. I wanna debate for some reason.

[Scritches 91]

 

...because Equestria received a threat note.

 

There is no mention in the episode that it was a note. It could have been the result of an intellegence report, a precognition, or possibly a time travellers warning.

 

Humans would not leave a threat note. We would bomb the place before they even knew we were there. Shining would be eliminated.

 

Actually as it just to happens to be, the precedent is that most western powers, to include the UN, have a tendency to declare war rather openly. Will all aggresive moves happen only after? Not likely, however if you need an example to work off of, just take a look at the buildup to the Iraq war.

And then there's the Alicorn sisters. I think they would be in the same position as Shining since they are both in Canterlot most of the time. And Canterlot would be a priority target. But for the sake of argument, let's assume they've lived.

Alright, I'm game.

They can move the sun and moon. Whoop de do? What's that going to do? Because unless they want to smash said orbiting body into the planet...

Who said anything about smashing them into the planet? The precedence is that they have magical ability and strength to move large celestial objects so it stands to reason they would be able to grab other objects in orbit to include ships. Oh yeah, and did I forget that regular unicorns used to have the same responsibility and ability?

 

The only other attack we've seen Celestia capable of is a death ray type thing fired at Chrysalis. But being concentrated on only one target would not really be all that of a disadvantage.

 

You really think that's the limit of her power?

And Luna could... Throw spiders on a web. Well, clearly we're doomed, spiders, I mean heck that would stop me! xD

 

Did you neglect the fact that she brought those spiders to life later on in the episode? With that ability of hers, she could conjure up entire armies and reinforce them in a heart beat.

 

Also, we've only seen Alicorns, and Unicorns, move things they could SEE with their magic. They can't move stuff behind doors and walls. At least, not without extreme concentration, complete control over the object, and knowledge of room layout.

 

So anything high enough up, or heck, even just fast enough, and they'd be able to do diddly squat. And I'm giving them the best case scenario here, like, they are all Twilight Sparkle scenario.

Take a look outside next time you hear an aircraft outside and tell me how hard it is to track it with your eyes. And now give yourself magic enough to force it down or tear it apart. Oh wait, you can't do that, silly me.

Again, Equestria's screwed. So. I'm game! Who wants to write the letter to congress?

 

I'll pass, I don't trust even half the bozos running that joint.

 

I think there is no way the ponies would win. At all. If you think they could reply. I wanna debate for some reason.

 

I suggest you start looking over the past 6 pages. It's loaded with pretty well written ideas for either camp on the issue.

Feel free to join in anytime.

[Krystal 1,468]

Let's imagine that the goal here is to invade and capture Equestria. Therefore we can't use nukes or other WMDs and there would be much more challenge in us claiming victory. If we simply wanted to wipe out Equestria then we could launch nukes all over Equstria from orbit, but I don't think that would be the purpose of an invasion of Equestria; which is what this thread is about. So with that can we eliminate nukes from this disscussion?

[Scritches 91]

Let's imagine that the goal here is to invade and capture Equestria. Therefore we can't use nukes or other WMDs and there would be much more challenge in us claiming victory. If we simply wanted to wipe out Equestria then we could launch nukes all over Equstria from orbit, but I don't think that would be the purpose of an invasion of Equestria; which is what this thread is about.

 

Indeed and all the good spirit of a jovial debate.

 

So with that can we eliminate nukes from this disscussion?

 

I've been trying to for the past several hours, best of luck to you though. Either way, ON WITH THE DEBATE!

[Rainbow Sparkle 70]

And no navigation systems would work either since they're not on Earth so there wouldn't be any sattalites for GPS and what not. The only think that would work is radio.

Well dragons are lizards so therefore by definition: coldblooded. It's not impossible for a lizard to fly either (pterodactyl). Plus if a missile did lock on a dragon might have a fair chance of evading it since they are more manuverable than any flying machine we have ever made.

 

It's been theorized that Dinosaurs were warm-blooded, and they were really big lizards.

 

Plus, we have a way of knowing whether their cold blooded or not. Cold-blooded creatures go into hibernate in cold temperature right? Spike has been thru winters without hibernating, not to mention crossed a mountain covered in snow. So, warm-blooded.

 

As my closing statement I would like to remind you that, again, we have weapons that launch from beyond the horizon. Equestria would be screwed.

 

I share this viewpoint.

 

This is really making me want to work on my HiE story idea that has their world actually being Earth several thousand years after a nuclear war effectively wiped most humans out, with some 1 million humans world wide managing to place themselves in cryo-stasis in deep underground bunkers. it would involve an eventual war between some of the remaining humans and the various native races as some of the humans decide to "reclaim" their world.

Edited June 24, 2012 by Rainbow Sparkle

[Krystal 1,468]

Plus, we have a way of knowing whether their cold blooded or not. Cold-blooded creatures go into hibernate in cold temperature right? Spike has been thru winters without hibernating, not to mention crossed a mountain covered in snow. So, warm-blooded.

 

Well why do the adult dragons hibernate for thousands of years?

[Acleps 11]

After reading the numerous posts, more and more ideas started popping into my head, so I had to make another reply .

 

Bullets & Magic:

 

I don't think we have to worry about can unicorns stop bullets: if a bullet is fired, they won't have enough time to react, unless "Pinkie sense" is an ability that can be learned. Also, it would be even harder to react to several bullets. So the only (known) way of them being able to stop bullets, is by having a force field around them 24/7. This would cause problems, since (if I've understood correctly) they can't use magic continuously forever.

 

Another thing to take into account is the strength of a force field. Shining armor's force field was strong: it covered a huge area, it had been there continuously for a long time, Shining Armor had been made weaker, and still changelings couldn't break through without continuous pounding by numerous individuals. We also don't know how that type of force field would work if scaled up or down, which makes it harder to predict what a bullet would do. Also, we don't know how hard it would be for an average unicorn to make a force field, and (if possible) how would their magic work together.

 

An impact of a bullet is different from an impact of a changeling. The bullet is traveling way faster, and distributes the force onto a smaller area, making the pressure higher for that area than a changeling pounding on it. This raises another question: What are the properties of a force field? (Is it more vulnearable to forces on small or large areas?)

 

Celestia & The Sun

 

I'm going to assume that the sun that shines over Equestria is roughly the same size as our sun, and that it is the same distance away as our sun is from Earth. In the episode "The Cutie Mark Chronicles", we see Celestia raising the sun (12:20 - 12:27). The sun rises at a very rapid speed. Assuming that Celestia is actually raising the sun, she is capable of moving huge masses at tremendous speeds from a long distance away. Why wouldn't she take the sun (or another planet) and smash it into our approaching spacecraft, destroying it instantly?

 

 

Nutrition:

 

The residents of Equestria survive on vegetables and fruits. Thus, they need a lot of land to survive. If we would explode a nuclear device in Canterlot, even if it would have a force field protecting it, the radiation would spread across the land. This would make the production of food impossible for that area, or at least much, much harder. Sooner or later, they would run out of food, and would have to surrender.

Edited June 24, 2012 by Acleps

[Typhoid Libby 1,265]

And any aircraft

The regular laws of physics as we know them do not apply to ponies.

 

And neither they would apply to humans neither then.

If planes go Mach 2 here, they would go Mach 13 or something and still remain viable.

They would have to be able to find them first. Technology is not everything.

 

Easily, millimeter waveform radar paints anything that is solid as clear as a day.

Tech IS everything when it comes to warfare.

Superior technology is ultimately better in any engagement.

And this scale of technological disjoint buries any chance ponies would have.

Armoured assests don't do things guerilla style.

 

Yes they do if they wish to avoid being engaged in disadvantageous position.

All military formations employed by first world countries are raiding assets, none are designed for staying power, they either kill or get killed.

All warfare is manoeuver warfare these days.

No-one stands and fights and lives to tell the tale.

Fixed position is a dead position.

Well I hope they know well enough to stay well out of the system, that aside you think for an istant that Luna wouldn't notice something is wrong with her night sky?

I hope they know how to coordinate their war effort while being outside of the solar system, communication can be a real bitch at those distances.

You mean the library in Canterlot which you keep saying will get obliterated in the first volley?

Two words, Pinkie sense. Also Celestia has some level of precognitive skills, after all she was able to prophesize her sister's escape from the moon.

 

Yes, I think she would be oblivious because there is nothing to notice until Rods hit atmo. And then it's way too late.

 

As a matter of course they would. If this engagement is fought on inter-solar medium, methods are engineered for that.

 

Computers, it's a short hop from plastics to computers and computers are superior at storing information.

First you steal the information, then you deny it.

That information would have been stolen long before anything happens to the physical medium.

 

Now you are just grasping for straws like this was a religious debate with that Pinkie thing.

you mean the outer shell of his prison? Sure thing it will be vaporized instantly. It's only stone that aside CONFLICT and CHAOS fuel Discord. All of this would only strengthen him.

Please see the above physics related post. Physics do not apply the same way to ponies as it does to us.

I agree, the moutain would be toast.

 

It is the physical shell of Discord. Without physical medium, there is no physical manifestation.

This would be anything but Chaos.

Either you aim to kill with first strike, or you don't bother at all. It will be planned to be perfect and sure one hit kill.

There is no conflict in this, only a systematic eradication of an species.

Conflict implies opposition capable of holding something.

Think War of the Worlds except this time around those Tripods are remote controlled and travel at Mach 3.

Yet again, she can phase her body until it does not interact with physical matter at all.

 

Or she had a really good lightcrew in that scene.

Even if she escapes, she will just die later to a bullet.

 

Let's imagine that the goal here is to invade and capture Equestria. Therefore we can't use nukes or other WMDs and there would be much more challenge in us claiming victory. If we simply wanted to wipe out Equestria then we could launch nukes all over Equstria from orbit, but I don't think that would be the purpose of an invasion of Equestria; which is what this thread is about. So with that can we eliminate nukes from this disscussion?

 

No country has ever been subjugated successfully.

It simply cannot be done. Either you kill all occupants or you deal with constant revolts.

Nuke it from orbit or leave it.

[Rainbow Sparkle 70]

Well why do the adult dragons hibernate for thousands of years?

 

Because in mythology/fantasy, Dragons had a tendency to sleep on their hordes alot? To be honest, I see no reason why need to sleep for thousands of years anyways. Heck, the only reason they seem eat Gems is because, seeing as most of the animals in the series are semi to fully sentient, it would be really really mean for them to actually eat other creatures.

[Archangel 143]

There is no mention in the episode that it was a note. It could have been the result of an intellegence report, a precognition, or possibly a time travellers warning.

Yeah, that's entirely possible. I'm still in the belief that the shield is no easy feat to maintain or set up.

 

Actually as it just to happens to be, the precedent is that most western powers, to include the UN, have a tendency to declare war rather openly. Will all aggresive moves happen only after? Not likely, however if you need an example to work off of, just take a look at the buildup to the Iraq war.

Yeah we'd declare war openly, but I don't think we'd give them much time at all before we started flinging the heavy stuff. It wouldn't surprise me either if something like Pearl Harbor happened. Say we hit Canterlot hard and fast and THEN make it public. Now this example isn't realistic in anyway but I'm just trying to make what I said easier to understand: We sneak a nuke into Canterlot. (Or even just in the stone below it in the mountain. Gravity can do the rest.) Detonate it, and then openly declare war.

 

Who said anything about smashing them into the planet? The precedence is that they have magical ability and strength to move large celestial objects so it stands to reason they would be able to grab other objects in orbit to include ships. Oh yeah, and did I forget that regular unicorns used to have the same responsibility and ability?

Okay, I was under the impression we could pick any means of transportation, so I was just going by the "There was a magical rift in time and space on some other location on the planet that we are coming from." So there wouldn't be any ships in orbit. I suppose Celestia would be a threat to ICBMs, but that's what the Pearl Harbor-like attack would be for.

 

You really think that's the limit of her power?

 

No I don't, but I'm trying to only go off of what we've seen in the show, or know to be confirmed. Faust herself said she wanted to keep Celestia mysterious, (Yes I'm well aware she left.) so we don't really know how high her limits are.

 

Did you neglect the fact that she brought those spiders to life later on in the episode? With that ability of hers, she could conjure up entire armies and reinforce them in a heart beat.

Right, okay, sorry. That sentence of mine was supposed to be for some comic relief, it was a joke, about how we would lose because of my irrational fear of the spiders Luna would be throwing at me.

Take a look outside next time you hear an aircraft outside and tell me how hard it is to track it with your eyes. And now give yourself magic enough to force it down or tear it apart. Oh wait, you can't do that, silly me.

Yeah, I wish I could use magic too. I probably would be tearing stuff outta the sky for fun! Without trying to kill people though.

But at that distance you also can't really tell whether it's a jet or a pegasis except for the smoke trails a jet leaves. So if we could mask that. Plus, we also don't really know the extent of unicorn power, it took GROUPS of the most powerful to move the sun and moon. So depending on the power, you'd need more than one to tear one out of the sky. At least I'm assuming. And I'm also under the impression that telekinetically lifting every book in a library and reorganizing it instantly while reading another book is something only those near Twilight's level can do. And that a fighting plane would be far more difficult. Then again, she did stop Rainbow, so I'm not sure. (And on that note, if Twilight is the Element of Magic, who's more powerful? Twilight? Or Celestia? Since Twilight is easily more powerful than a group of unicorns, could she control the solar bodies?)

 

I'll pass, I don't trust even half the bozos running that joint.

Hah! I agree with you on that one. 'Twas another comic relief thing, though I think you picked up on it this time.

 

Well that was fun. Unfortunately, I need to go to bed. I have a 5km race to run in the morning. Keep the discussion running for when I get back! Also let's hope I managed to do the quotes right.

[Scritches 91]

And neither they would apply to humans neither then.

If planes go Mach 2 here, they would go Mach 13 or something and still remain viable.

 

Magic planes? Imagine that! Man I must have missed seeing those or something while I was still in the military.

 

Easily, millimeter waveform radar paints anything that is solid as clear as a day.

Tech IS everything when it comes to warfare.

Superior technology is ultimately better in any engagement.

And this scale of technological disjoint buries any chance ponies would have.

 

Not to beat a dead horse(no pun intended), but Viet Cong anyone? Also I believe I need to introduce you to the works of H.John Poole.

http://en.wikipedia....i/H._John_Poole

A Marine veteran of the Vietnam war, I recall telling someone else about him earlier. He is an adamant opponent of overreliance on technology. It is from his writings and my own experiences that I pull alot of my perspectives from. Never underestimate the ingenuity of the desparate.

 

Yes they do if they wish to avoid being engaged in disadvantageous position.

 

Tanks and other armored units using guerilla warfare? I have yet to see any such thing on the battlefield. One of the keys to guerilla warfare to be able to hide from your enemy to attack only to hide again. It's kind of hard to be able to hide a large, loud tank. Or any other vehicle for that matter. You can hear tanks coming from great distances by simply placing ones ear against the ground, if the ground is soft use a knife or similar object and place your ear against it. That's something that H. John Poole illlustrates in his books, low tech solution to high tech problems.

 

All military formations employed by first world countries are raiding assets, none are designed for staying power, they either kill or get killed.

All warfare is manoeuver warfare these days.

 

I agree, I believe I made a point of this earlier that the ponies are familiar with those kinds of tactics as evidenced by the presence of camouflage. It certainly isn't used for hunting or and yet it must have been developed for a reason.

 

No-one stands and fights and lives to tell the tale.

Fixed position is a dead position.

 

Sometimes it's the only position you've got. Also "Chesty" Puller might take issue with that notion, if only he were still alive(and no he didn't die in battle, he died of old age).

God bless you Chesty, where ever you are.

 

Yes, I think she would be oblivious because there is nothing to notice until Rods hit atmo. And then it's way too late.

As a matter of course they would. If this engagement is fought on inter-solar medium, methods are engineered for that.

 

Just transmitting from the earth to the moon takes 30 seconds, from the earth to the sun takes around 8 minutes. Assuming that Equestria's moon and sun are relatively the same distance from the pony's planet. That time delay alone would play hell on their coordination.

 

Computers, it's a short hop from plastics to computers and computers are superior at storing information.

First you steal the information, then you deny it.

That information would have been stolen long before anything happens to the physical medium.

 

Remember that the longer a covert is out in the field, the higher their odds of being detected and a warning being sent out.

 

Now you are just grasping for straws like this was a religious debate with that Pinkie thing.

 

Religion? Who said anything about religion? It very cleary sets a precdent for it's existence in their world. Who is to say that Pinkie is the only one?

 

It is the physical shell of Discord. Without physical medium, there is no physical manifestation.

 

Once by the very description from the episode synopsis itself, Discord is in a "stone prison". If the stone is gone, he gets set free. He needs no stone to be manifest.

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=36DUeE88F70

 

This would be anything but Chaos.

 

Tell that to those who witness these events in a place not near the danger.

 

Either you aim to kill with first strike, or you don't bother at all. It will be planned to be perfect and sure one hit kill.

 

Here's a very common military saying for you, "No plan survives execution." Also it's great to remember Murphy's law, it loves to pop up at the worst possible times. Ask anyone who's been in theater.

 

There is no conflict in this, only a systematic eradication of an species.

Conflict implies opposition capable of holding something.

Think War of the Worlds except this time around those Tripods are remote controlled and travel at Mach 3.

 

Try passing that one past any ethics commity anywhere on earth, to include the individual troops themselves. Modern warfare, tries to minimize unneccesary loss and death for both attacker and defender. That's what rules of engagement and the Law of Land Warfare are for. Perhaps you've heard of them?

http://www.enlisted....d-warfare.shtml

 

Or she had a really good lightcrew in that scene.

Even if she escapes, she will just die later to a bullet.

 

She's lived for over a thousand years and has been through many crises, I don't see how this would be any different.

 

No country has ever been subjugated successfully.

It simply cannot be done. Either you kill all occupants or you deal with constant revolts.

Nuke it from orbit or leave it.

 

You forgot one, spread the local population so thin they can't coordinate and interbreed amongst them...wait..oh no...I think just endorsed something terrible. o.O;;

 

 

 

 

Yeah, that's entirely possible. I'm still in the belief that the shield is no easy feat to maintain or set up.

 

I completely agree. Still we haven't really seen it at it's highest potential.

 

Yeah we'd declare war openly, but I don't think we'd give them much time at all before we started flinging the heavy stuff. It wouldn't surprise me either if something like Pearl Harbor happened. Say we hit Canterlot hard and fast and THEN make it public. Now this example isn't realistic in anyway but I'm just trying to make what I said easier to understand: We sneak a nuke into Canterlot. (Or even just in the stone below it in the mountain. Gravity can do the rest.) Detonate it, and then openly declare war.

 

Possible, however the first response is likely to be special operators to gather intel and possibly send the message themselves.

 

Okay, I was under the impression we could pick any means of transportation, so I was just going by the "There was a magical rift in time and space on some other location on the planet that we are coming from." So there wouldn't be any ships in orbit. I suppose Celestia would be a threat to ICBMs, but that's what the Pearl Harbor-like attack would be for.

 

I am of the opinion and impression that she is not that easy to get rid of.

 

No I don't, but I'm trying to only go off of what we've seen in the show, or know to be confirmed. Faust hers Arelf said she wanted to keep Celestia mysterious, (Yes I'm well aware she left.) so we don't really know how high her limits are.

 

There was one of the many word of Faust images on Ponibooru that detailed how Twilight has Spike to help her and it was because Celestia knew there was something special about Twilight before her entrance test was even given to her. It's why she was given the "anmiomorphic spell" test as opposed to whatever test all of the other fillies and colts take.

Right, okay, sorry. That sentence of mine was supposed to be for some comic relief, it was a joke, about how we would lose because of my irrational fear of the spiders Luna would be throwing at me.

 

Ah very well, the comedy was indeed lost on me. Arachnophobia is a strange movie common phobia. I for one am not explicitely afraid of them, but I am not comfortable with them crawling on me unless i know exactly what species they are.

 

Yeah, I wish I could use magic too. I probably would be tearing stuff outta the sky for fun! Without trying to kill people though.

But at that distance you also can't really tell whether it's a jet or a pegasis except for the smoke trails a jet leaves.

 

Jets are VERY loud. Back when I was in the Corps, I was stationed on a base called Camp Foster, which is right near Kadena Air Force Base. We(my platoon) would see the f-15's and f-22's taking off, flying overhead our base, and then landing again at Kadena. That being the case, it would be quite easy to tell which is a pony and which is a military aircraft, just listen for which one is louder. Albeit with them going at mach you might have to wait for it pass you by.

 

So if we could mask that. Plus, we also don't really know the extent of unicorn power, it took GROUPS of the most powerful to move the sun and moon. So depending on the power, you'd need more than one to tear one out of the sky. At least I'm assuming. And I'm also under the impression that telekinetically lifting every book in a library and reorganizing it instantly while reading another book is something only those near Twilight's level can do. And that a fighting plane would be far more difficult. Then again, she did stop Rainbow, so I'm not sure. (And on that note, if Twilight is the Element of Magic, who's more powerful? Twilight? Or Celestia? Since Twilight is easily more powerful than a group of unicorns, could she control the solar bodies?)

It is true we don't know the full extent only bits and pieces from the show. However I think that Twilight's existence as the bearer of the element may have simply given her the ability to be latently powerful at magic, or else it would mean that she has the ability to possibly usurp Celestia...*ponyshrug* Maybe it's because she hasn't tried to?

 

Hah! I agree with you on that one. 'Twas another comic relief thing, though I think you picked up on it this time.

 

I am reminded of an old joke: Have you ever wonder why politicians are called what they are? Because of polotics, "poly" meaning many and "ticks" being a blood sucking parasite.

Well that was fun. Unfortunately, I need to go to bed. I have a 5km race to run in the morning. Keep the discussion running for when I get back! Also let's hope I managed to do the quotes right.

 

See you tommorow and good luck with your race.

 

Well it looks like things have wrapped up for the night. Good night everypony, and thank you one and all for participating!

Edited June 24, 2012 by Leatherneck

[Comet Tail 808]

Sorry Leatherneck, still haven't read that post about how the situation is set up, I'll get to that ASAP, but first, I have some replies:

 

Well the fact is, I don't really care if Equestria gets invaded by humans.

 

However if they were, I would know how it would start.

 

They US Navy would probably start by firing a few Tomahawk missiles into Equestria, then have drone attacks, soon, air raids would occur, and land invasions would soon follow.

 

Well I care... I love dem ponies... But anyways, the point here is to really find out. I'm comfortable with the notion that humans might win only because I know humans would never do such a thing, unless there's some really convoluted circumstances.

 

In Iraq, first we gathered intel. Then special forces teams, cruise missiles and stealth bombers were assigned key targets, air defense radar, scud sites, etc. etc. Once their air defense was down, we waged an air campaign, leveled just about all their assets, and swept up the rest with armored divisions. That, my friend, is how to fight a war. Claim the high ground, shoot down from it until you're not very effective, then take a step down to get closer. Get air, get land, win the war officially by getting their capital, then roll into and occupy the cities.

 

Note to you; If you can't talk without using Wikipedia, don't quote me.

 

And if you compare it to a shotgun, go take a test and fire one at steel plate at close proximity. It does not matter what the material is, only what it is protecting.

Pure blunt force trauma alone will drop any dragon from the sky and nothing organic survives terminal velocity drops.

AAM's will kill a dragon and they will hit.

 

I'm flattered; you thought I was using wiki.

 

I was, only for the M61 Vulcan - and the Mig's gun. The rest came from my noggin, including the GAU-8, Anti-Air missile warhead, radar, A-10 Warthog and everything else. Also, please try to stay in the spirit of the show, I was sensing something of a lack of kindness in the tone, there. But, no matter, you had a good point about the blunt force. While I do believe it would penetrate dragon's hide on second thought, even if it didn't, that would be enough blunt force to cause a lot of serious damage.

 

As for the shotgun example; it was only to highlight the point that it's a scatter-shot weapon. It's effective against aircraft since the metal bits tear through hydraulic lines, engines, and all kinds of stuff. If you're lucky it'll blow the whole thing up, though usually it just makes it mostly unflyable. If you're a lucky target, then you might even survive a missile hit in a jet. You'd have to be pretty lucky, though, and count on losing some control surfaces and at least one engine.

 

GAU-8 is a ground assault weapon.

You fire it at airborne targets without proper angle of attack and airspeed and they will be picking parts of you from the country side for the next decade.

 

And ALL Airborne weapons require a lock these days.

You just don't shoot from a hip. It's a several thousand dollars per burst and that weapon will [____] up someone's day somewhere.

 

Ask anyone who served in any high tech branch.

You wait for a [____] target lock or you get court-marshalled.

 

^{_{Seriously... You're cussin' worse than guys from the military, here...}}

 

In today's reality, we fight wars and try to stay clean and fight in civilian-populated areas and try not to waste money. In an all-out war, things would be very, very different. We haven't had a true all-out war since WWII. I gaurantee you that they wouldn't be so uptight about getting a lock before shooting. We'll be more concerned about winning than keeping the countryside clean. My guess is those dragons will tear ground forces a new one, and that even .50 cal's will only have moderate effectiveness. They're big, flying, fast, and can burn Dashie's face from at least a thousand feet ("Dragon Quest"), and most importantly, there are thousands of them.

 

With those dragon scales, you're looking at a target fit for howitzers, 120mm SABOT's and HEAT's, maybe Vulcans and definitely GAU-8's. Hydras might be a good choice, too, but Hellfires would probably be more effective.

 

[some parts excluded]

Good luck seeing anything that high that's coated in anti-shine.

Besides, anything that COULD do that will be killed before there will be any targets to drop from orbit.

 

You DON'T EVER bring carrier or indirect fire assets into direct fire range.

 

No wiki, but I do need to google something for presentation;

 

Take a ball, hold it over a plate. Drop the ball, it lands on the plate. Throw the ball sideways, and it misses the plate.

The ball is an object in orbit, the plate is the Earth.

 

You're in orbit when you're going so fast sideways you "miss" the Earth.

 

In the example, the ball always falls down, though. But because Earth is the source of the gravity, in an orbit, the "ball" will always fall towards the "plate", so instead of zipping past it, it falls towards it, curving back until it makes a full circle. That's an orbit. (An Ellipse, actually, but I won't get into that...)

 

The planet spins underneath the orbit, so keeping assets out of sight will be near impossible:

 

Image linked

 

But there is one solution. A geostationary orbit.

 

(The orbit shown here is inclined, so it's following that wave pattern of Sputnik illustrated above, except it's not moving very far east or west. It's not a circular orbit, it's elliptical, so it's speeding up and slowing down as it moves closer and further from Earth, causing it to go left and right a little, as it goes up and down, causing it to trace out that shape. This is a Molynian orbit.)

 

The only problem here is a massive orbital distance. It would make it very difficult to drop "Fingers of God" (Tungsten Depleted Uranium rods dropped from orbit) on anything.

 

You can't "drop" anything from orbit, you'll have to put a booster on it and slow it down so it doesn't "miss" the Earth. So putting a carrier in this kind of orbit would create massive logistical problems, though. Possibly even show-stopper problems assuming near-modern technology.

 

There are some partial solutions (you could use a highly elliptical orbit and "slow down" at the peak. In an elliptical orbit, you speed up when closer to the ground, and slow down when higher up: JUST like a child on a swing. So in order to hit the Earth, you have to slow down a lot less when you're already going really slow, at the peak. But this also means being at a very high peak, it would probably take along the lines of 12 or more hours, and your window would open once every 24 hours.), but even those bring up some other problems.

 

 

Whether or not a "safe" Molynian orbit is feasible would depend on technology. Despite the fact we traveled probably tens of light years, we're still assuming near-modern tech. So how that spaceship got there, traveling FTL, but can hardly maneuver in orbit for a few measly km/s... I have no idea. But that's modern tech, for ya.

 

Personally, I'd want to assume something different, like traveling through some remote area in Canada or Siberia takes you to Equestria like the Wardrobe to Narnia. Then there's no big plot holes like the FTL tech discrepency.

 

And as Canterlot houses the statue, it will be the first target. That thing will be vaporized.

Tungsten rod hitting the ground at orbital velocities, some 3000m/s, will vaporize everything in few miles and if that does not get you the heat will.

Those things penetrate earth up to Moho.

Deity or not, you can't mess with conservation of matter nor the basic physical variables for this discussion to have ANY sense.

Those hit and it's game over for anything in Canterlot Mountain.

Those tungsten rods look like a shooting stars until about 20 secs before impact too, so Celly must be REALLY fast to have any hope.

 

Actually, I recall some videos of ICBM reentry vehicles. Lots of kinetic energy, but not as grand as you make it out as. And btw, orbital velocity for Earth is 7,840 m/s at 100 km altitude (gets slower as you go higher). I dunno where you got 3,000 m/s from. Maybe you read it somewhere? I could believe that's the "impact" velocity of re-entry vehicles, though, because of atmospheric drag.

 

Anyhoot, take a look at these things, IIRC, they're about the size of a person (The "Fingers of God", Tungsten Depleted Uranium rods you keep mentioning would start off about 30 feet in length, then burn down to about the size of a re-entry vehicle).

 

 

 

Not a lot of "splash", but that thing does have an absolutely staggering amount of kinetic energy. But it's going so fast, all that energy is directed downwards, instead of outwards. It will have great penetration, an ideal bunker-buster. My suggested application is trying to tear Canterlot from the side of the mountain.

 

No! Ponies! I'm so sorry I helped the enemies!

 

What can I do to make it up to you!?

 

After reading the numerous posts, more and more ideas started popping into my head, so I had to make another reply .

 

Bullets & Magic:

 

I don't think we have to worry about can unicorns stop bullets: if a bullet is fired, they won't have enough time to react, unless "Pinkie sense" is an ability that can be learned. Also, it would be even harder to react to several bullets. So the only (known) way of them being able to stop bullets, is by having a force field around them 24/7. This would cause problems, since (if I've understood correctly) they can't use magic continuously forever.

 

Another thing to take into account is the strength of a force field. Shining armor's force field was strong: it covered a huge area, it had been there continuously for a long time, Shining Armor had been made weaker, and still changelings couldn't break through without continuous pounding by numerous individuals. We also don't know how that type of force field would work if scaled up or down, which makes it harder to predict what a bullet would do. Also, we don't know how hard it would be for an average unicorn to make a force field, and (if possible) how would their magic work together.

 

An impact of a bullet is different from an impact of a changeling. The bullet is traveling way faster, and distributes the force onto a smaller area, making the pressure higher for that area than a changeling pounding on it. This raises another question: What are the properties of a force field? (Is it more vulnearable to forces on small or large areas?)

In the season finale, Shining Armor said that he's the only one that could cast that spell, so I wouldn't at all assume shields like that are typical, or that smaller ones even exist. So far only the Sparkle family has ever done anything like it (Twilight used a spell that stopped Discord's magic at the end of the Discord 2-parter, right before they used the Elements on him).

 

Celestia & The Sun

 

I'm going to assume that the sun that shines over Equestria is roughly the same size as our sun, and that it is the same distance away as our sun is from Earth. In the episode "The Cutie Mark Chronicles", we see Celestia raising the sun (12:20 - 12:27). The sun rises at a very rapid speed. Assuming that Celestia is actually raising the sun, she is capable of moving huge masses at tremendous speeds from a long distance away. Why wouldn't she take the sun (or another planet) and smash it into our approaching spacecraft, destroying it instantly?

I don't assume Celestia's moving the sun, instead, I prefer to think she's keeping the world's orbit stable.

 

I think of it this way: The moon is in a highly elliptical retrograde orbit. As such, over thousands of years, it would slow the rotation of the planet, causing day and night to cease, and decay the orbit of the moon, causing it to fall into the planet.

 

Celestia keeps the day and night cycle by imparting a force to keep the planet spinning at the same rate, despite the moon's gravitational force pulling back on it.

 

Luna keeps the moon from breaking apart as it comes near the Roche Limit (Yes, Mr. Rudypants Typhoid, that came from my head. Linked to wiki for courtesy. Lol, hopeya know rudypants was a joke...). The Roche limit is where a body held together by it's own gravity, will break apart in a larger gravitational field. She both keeps the Moon from breaking apart, and keeps it's orbit from decaying.

 

The equations are buried in some book I have somewhere, and from them I could find how much power it would take to do that. Now a great deal, though, because those things would happen over the course of millinia, at the very, very, very least. So they would only have to nudge the bodies oh-so-slightly.

 

(In my headcanon, the moon's orbit is so screwed up because long ago a "wandering star" zipped through their solar system, throwing their world out of orbit. In one of those magic surges, like when Twi's eyes went white, combined with the power of the Elements, they moved the world and it's moon back to it's orbit. They've never been able to reclaim that great power to fix the moon's orbit, so now they just keep it from decaying).

 

 

Because in mythology/fantasy, Dragons had a tendency to sleep on their hordes alot? To be honest, I see no reason why need to sleep for thousands of years anyways. Heck, the only reason they seem eat Gems is because, seeing as most of the animals in the series are semi to fully sentient, it would be really really mean for them to actually eat other creatures.

 

Other creatures like phoenixes? Watch "Dragon Quest" if you haven't, and if you have, think back

 

Just transmitting from the earth to the moon takes 30 seconds, from the earth to the sun takes around 8 minutes. Assuming that Equestria's moon and sun are relatively the same distance from the pony's planet. That time delay alone would play hell on their coordination.

Moon = 250,000 miles.

Low Earth Orbit = ~60-700 nautical miles.

Geostationary Orbit = 22,000 miles.

Speed of Light = 300,000 km/s (~220,000 miles/second??)

 

It takes light a little over one second to reach the moon one-way. Apollo would've been a lot harder if it took a whole 30 seconds!

 

[bits edited out]

 

Here's a very common military saying for you, "No plan survives execution." Also it's great to remember Murphy's law, it loves to pop up at the worst possible times. Ask anyone who's been in theater.

 

There is one plan that survives execution!

http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff2200/fc02125.htm

 

Jets are VERY loud. Back when I was in the Corps, I was stationed on a base called Camp Foster, which is right near Kadena Air Force Base. We(my platoon) would see the f-15's and f-22's taking off, flying overhead our base, and then landing again at Kadena. That being the case, it would be quite easy to tell which is a pony and which is a military aircraft, just listen for which one is louder. Albeit with them going at mach you might have to wait for it pass you by.

Rockets are louder. Hehe, ever seen a space launch vehicle go off? Space Shuttle was the best while it was around. Very, very loud from 7 miles out. Could feel the rumble in your chest.

 

Occassionaly on a clear day you can hear ailiners overhead, despite the fact they're 6 miles up and the air is only about 1/3rd as thick up where they fly. So that's quiet loud, still.

 

It is true we don't know the full extent only bits and pieces from the show. However I think that Twilight's existence as the bearer of the element may have simply given her the ability to be latently powerful at magic, or else it would mean that she has the ability to possibly usurp Celestia...*ponyshrug* Maybe it's because she hasn't tried to?

 

Well she loves the princess for one thing. And there is speculation she's meant to replace her, one distant day.

 

 

/

More to come once I read that post on what the situation is, that Leatherneck referenced me to earlier. Just been trying to keep up with all this. Sheesh.

[Nah 3,181]

Well I care... I love dem ponies...

 

[cuteycindyhoney 13,283]

Well, I'm not so sure as to the actual powers ad the biology of a pony, considering that there may be many different aspects that may be unknown to us, but even with their magic, I think we can win, considering their level of technology. Even with their magic, we have have nuclear weapons and whilst I do not know the extent of their powers, I doubt they can survive radiation, much less the actual blast.

 

You're forgetting one key factor. Equestria doesn't share the same physical laws as we have on Earth. How do you know a nuclear device would function outside of our own space/time?

 

I know it isn't pony related, but has anyone here read "A Barnstormer in Oz" by Philip José Farmer? It poses a very similar question. What would happen if in 1923, the army corp of engineers found a way through to Oz, and the American military attempted to invade. Dorothy's son Hank, a barnstorming pilot who flies his plane through a strange green cloud, ends up throwing his lot in with the denizens of Oz to try and prevent catastrophe. Oz itself is on the brink of civil war, which makes things even more desperate!

[Scritches 91]

More to come once I read that post on what the situation is, that Leatherneck referenced me to earlier. Just been trying to keep up with all this. Sheesh.

 

I know exactly what you mean, take your time. I for one spent nearly 12 hours today

on just this one thread. xD

[Stoner Spike 185]

Alright. I've read over all six long pages of this thread.

 

First, I'd like to say that I'm amazed at how confident you all are in the military.

 

Now, to start.

 

Every time a human supporter is given the scenario in which a pony escapes, it always ends up with a bullet in its head. This would never happen by default. If it's a unicorn, temporary force field, if it's a pegasus, it can dodge, and if it's an earth pony, the same rule applies as if it were a pegasus. You can't always be 100% confident that your bullet will hit the target perfectly, because it just won't happen. Humans are prone to making mistakes. And I also take into account the fact that an earth pony or pegasus can't always dodge a bullet, either. If they do, hooray, and if not, a tear will be shed. I reckon that pegasi are much more capable of dodging things than an earth pony, so I'd have to say their chances at life are 50-60%. As for an earth pony, likely 30-40% (maybe less).

 

After that, we have the issue of nuclear weapons. I'd like to say that the "Shining Armor's field was destroyed by changelings banging on it" argument isn't true. Shining Armor was exerting a large amount of energy, and the field required some degree of concentration, but do note that upon the field breaking, it was already extremely weak. Chrysalis was weakening him the entire time, and the field wouldn't have lasted much longer even without the changelings banging on it. In truth, I'd have to go with the reasoning that a nuclear strike wouldn't easily penetrate a unicorn's force field, and if the unicorn in question has half the magical ability of Twilight Sparkle, then he or she should be able to slow the missile or redirect it altogether. Yes, some missiles detonate by proximity, some by impact, and some by timer, and in this case an impact missile wouldn't likely receive a great enough impact force to detonate if it has been slowed down, rendering it useless. If redirected, it wouldn't take much more effort to make it fly back to where it came from, even if very slowly, in my opinion.One detonating from proximity wouldn't be likely to make it past the unicorn's force field, and one detonating by a timer would explode in the air if slowed.

 

And logical reasoning dictates that if a nuclear missile can't penetrate the field of a unicorn, neither can a bullet.

 

As for a pegasus, I'll go with the fact that a winged, quick-moving, and agile creature would be able to dodge a much larger, bulky missile. With warfare already happening, I doubt the unicorns on the ground wouldn't have some sort of shield up. As for an earth pony, the chances of surviving a missile are less likely, but who would directly lock a nuclear missile onto one organism?

 

Your answer for grenades is here as well. Explosives as such are thrown, and detonate either on impact or once the spark lights the explosives inside. Seeing as they are thrown, and humans have lesser physical limitations than ponies, the grenade can be easily redirected unless launched at high speeds from a machine. And then, refer to my bullet and missile reasoning above.

 

The basic things are there. Ponies won't be completely impervious to what humans throw at them, but are perfectly capable of providing a fight. Us humans will mostly rely on explosives, strategy, and bullets, if I'm not mistaken, and that can be matched by the brain power of certain ponies and the abilities of these creatures altogether.

 

After that, we've noted that ponies are familiar with some modern technology. Early computers (that analysis machine in Twilight's basement), tanks, cannons, and light artillery (guns and the sort, which should be included by default considering tanks are available) are some of the things they are already familiar with, if not already have, and will quickly be able to know the potential of our weapons (if this is a present and near-future experience).

 

Equestria has two goddesses (if not, then demigoddesses) that have enough magical power to move giant celestial bodies a great distance away at unfathomable speeds. Why not crash a large object (NOT THE SUN OR THE MOON) into invading forces? And yes, a bullet to the head would be fatal, even to them, but I doubt a bullet hole anywhere else in the body couldn't be repaired rather quickly, as goddesses (or even demigoddesses) should have some degree of healing ability by default. If the bullet penetrates the brain, they will almost certainly be damaged majorly, if not killed, but taking into account that they have magical ability far beyond that of a normal pony, the chances to occurrence of a bullet penetrating the brain are very VERY slim.

 

And I doubt that once somepony notices that there is a major threat to the country and/or the world that they will hesitate to alert the princesses.

 

As for dragons and other non-pony creatures, dragons have bulletproof scales, griffons have similar, if not congruent flying abilities as pegasi, zebras are like earth ponies with less strength, the same applies to mules, donkeys, and other members of that family. Parasprites may be able to wreak havoc on the human machines if used correctly. Animals will undoubtedly fight back if they know their world is in danger.

 

And, finally, we have a certain being named Discord. Note that Discord was only IMPRISONED in stone, not TURNED INTO stone, meaning that if the barrier breaks, a certain being will be set free, and that being (pardon my language) can do whatever he wants without giving a flying fuck about physics, universal laws, or any other thing. I'm sure that if he saw that the place (though the inhabitants of that place imprisoned him) he previously called a home was in danger, he'd do whatever he could (everything) to fight whatever was killing it.

 

Unless, of course, Discord is the biggest dick in the universe, which I doubt anyone could be that big of a dick (bad enough on the human's part for attacking a beautiful and peaceful land in the first place).

 

Discord, the Princesses, and magic solidify my opinion on who would win in a complete invasion.

 

But I have one final question for you Earth supporters to answer.

 

Should this ever come true, certainly, you have plans for everything, but where the hell will you get the money to do all of this? Imagine how many tons of resources it would take to make all of this and transport it to another star system. Like, really? You'll waste that much to invade another country for resources? For real?

 

Please let me know if I've missed anything!

[Comet Tail 808]

Video proof, at 12:40 to 12:42 -

 

[clipped]

 

Now, considering how noticeable either a missile or a nuke are, considering how far they have to travel to reach their target, do you really think no one would notice in time?

 

And actually, the average bullets move around 750 mph. In level flight, Rainbow Dash does slightly in excess of 300 miles per hour. In Sonic Rainboom (Episode, not event), she goes approximately the speed of the X-15a rocket plane (~Mach 7), and during the Rainboom itself, she goes (Judging by the "stretch" by bending the light spectrum due to high acceleration) about 10,000 mph, which is around Mach 13. At this speed, even a Barret .50 calibur bullet would be left in the dust, going only 1947.187187... mph.

 

Refer to the video posted earlier of re-entry vehicles. Those things are FAST. I mean FAST. No, really, I say fast, but you can't really comprehend how ludicrously fast they are! Very very very very fast. Like, faster than Rainbow Dash plus outraged Fluttershy plus Pinkie Pie on a sugar high fast, but faster!

 

This is why it's taken almost a full century to develop technology that can intercept it, despite us having radar that can track it from launch to landing 20-30 minutes later... After it travels around the world in that time, by the way.

 

Orbital Velocity at 100 km for a circular orbit is 17,500 mph. An ICBM is sub-orbital, but because a lot of it's speed is up (and down as it returns), it actually goes a bit faster (working off of conjecture from what I know of orbits, here). I'd say 18,000-19,000 mph is a good educated guess.

 

As for RD's speed, thinking back to Kyronea's character analysis, I'd follow her thoughts on the Elements of Harmony. Those are behind her speeds. Reaching those speeds without magic by a biological creature is just impossible.

 

And I'm extremely suspect that her wings would have to sonic boom with every flap in order to create enough thrust to propel her that fast. Because they don't, I take this as even more great evidence that magic is at work for her to reach those speeds.

 

I am Kohr-Ah.

I do not collaborate.

 

Week1:

 

-Fleet "Homebound" sets up OP-HQ in the asteroid belt of Equestria.

-Diplomatic channels opened.

-Construction begins.

-War Fleet sets course for planetary orbit.

-Official Declaration of War.

-Payload released.

 

Week2:

 

-OP-HQ running.

-Fifty 2 meter diameter tungsten alloy rods hit the equestrian continent and eradicate all major population centers and military facilities.

-War Fleet sets into orbit.

-Bombardment begins.

 

Week3:

 

-90% of population dead, no organized resistance possible.

-Troop drops begin.

 

Week4:

 

-Extermination complete.

-Construction of planetary facilities begins.

 

There is no war if the opposing force is capable of interstellar travel.

Weapons such an civilization is capable of employing are far too efficient and destructive to counter by a civilization in outset of it's space age.

 

If humanity were to engage in such a warfare, we would ensure victory by the methods of travel alone.

Accelerate something to a high enough velocity, and it becomes a planet killer.

There is 4 light years to accelerate.

 

Ponies have never engaged in open warfare against their own kind, they are not efficient at it.

But we are, and we are also inhuman about it, name an atrocity and it would be employed if it would give an advantage.

There is no situation where ponies would win, unless it is engineered to be such via a literary device.

 

Warfare is not about engaging the opposing force-strength as equals, it's about destroying it before it can do the same to you.

And if one controls the supreme high-ground; space, other is in no position to counter anything or even act.

 

Ask any military historian what happened to those holding the low ground with inferior weaponry and were forced to respond to threats against a numerically smaller opposition that had superior weaponry.

They all died.

 

I agree, it wouldn't be a war, it would be a mass execution.

 

But, add magic, and it's more like vietnam, but without the jungle. 7 part mass execution of enemy military/turkey shoot/British versus Zulus, 3 part real warfighting.

 

But, add in the deeper magic, the kind of magic that caused RD to have a sonic rainboom to give the mane 6 their connection, the same magic that founded Equestria, the Elements of Harmony, and other mystical magic we've seen like Shining Armor and Princess Cadence's love, and you get a God-like magic that would make them win.

 

Simply put, their magic is Wyrd. It's God-like. It's fate. Nothing can stop it. The type of thing where your entire army will suffer a fatal heart attack all at once. Okay, not something like that, but you get the idea.

 

"...unless it is engineered to be such via a literary device."

 

But because of the deep magic that permeates the land (S1E1: "The Magical land of Equestria..."), that exact sort of thing would happen. Call it a literary device, but we're making fiction, real. If it were real, then you'd call it a freak occurrence, but it would happen.

 

"Once upon a time, in the magical land of Equestria..."

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPN5yZ5bpF8

 

The land itself is magic. The freak occurrance of RD's filly sonic rainboom, a feat of legend that professionals who focused their entire lives could not perform, at the right time to connect all the future bearers of the Elements of Harmony, the fulfillment of prophesy, Nightmare Moon's defeat into her pure, Luna-self, the Elements of Harmony that defeated Discord...

 

Nothing could ever win against Equestria for this reason. "Plot Device" is canon. It's known as a powerful magic lurking in the land, that will always set things right in the end.

 

Oh sure. When the thread starter never implied anything that the humans will come to Equestria via a 'magical' portal

 

As I said earlier, the ponies are way too peaceful and passive. Even against the "pathetic-excuse-of-an-invasion" from changeling, they were all defeated on a whim. Against the human soldiers who literally drink violence everyday, the ponies surely stand victorious, they got magical princess!

 

/meh

 

I wouldn't call it a pathetic excuse of an invasion... It was pretty well executed. They got on the inside, dropped the shield, then attacked en masse raining chaos and panic, in China-like numbers, never mind their ability to morph!

 

Watch as Celestia just sits back and does nothing, like usual.

 

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=llp3uuRSU5Y

 

Seriously - the best way to learn is life experience. That's how she teachers her faithful student and protege, Twilight Sparkle. Every time she's sat back, things have turned out right. Canon is she's a loving and benign monarch, and by no means stupid or lazy.

 

Rather than call her a troll for things like showing Fluttershy Philomena, or sending only two tickets to the Gala, I would say she knew what would happen and planned for it. In the end, those "trolls" ended up strengthening their friendships and teaching them. She is Twilight's teacher and mentor, after all. I would agree with Kyronea's description; she's a "chessmaster of a princess", she sets things in motion and lets them unravel so that the ponies learn and grow. They couldn't grow if she did everything for them. She's teaching them to handle things on their own. And when called for, she does intervene, like in "Lesson Zero".

 

And she certainly didn't "do nothing" when Chrysalis attacked.

 

Fifty buck said that the ponies will be too scared to fight with dragons on their side and proceed to turn tail, while the dragons got some tasty snacks

 

Besides, the dragons in FiM weren't even that dangerous, smart, or even hostile. The one who was sleepy as hell didn't even do anything when the ponies walked inside his lair! He was supposed to chew them down! What kind of dragon was that!?

 

One that didn't even consider little ponies to be any kind of threat. Just a minor annoyance. Until "the blue one kicked me", then he let it go on them.

 

Couldn't find any trusted link about that in a short time, sorry

 

The ship can still easily bombard the holy-living star out of any nearby town

Even if the dragon could get close, the CIWS can make a cheesecake out of them.

 

That, if the battlefield is on earth. But judging from the various places suggested by the OP, I'm not pretty sure.

 

I remember accounts of Okinawa saying those 16-inch guns bombarded the Japanese positioned until they looked like the lifeless surface of the moon

 

Okay, hypothetical:

 

Motivation A: Resources

A1: Equestria is an Earth country

 

Assuming Equestria follows the parameters of most maps and information made about itself in the show, Equestria is not very large. Places that are inferred to be very far away can be travelled-to and returned-from in a single day. (It's About Time, Winter Wrap Up). I would assume the size of Belgium. Granted, magic would have a great deal of an advantage over any of the most advanced conventional arms, but compared to any demonstrated efforts in-show, most armor and tactical systems employed by Earth's armies would offset this a great deal. A nuclear deployment would defeat the purpose of the invasion, because it would destroy the resources that were the objective in the first place.

 

On the whole, it would be about as clean and efficient as Russia trying to invade the United States with an amphibious landing and tanks. It would be a catastrophic mess from one end of the ribbon to the other, with massive casualties and large expense.

 

A2: Equestria is on another Planet

 

Firstly you'd have to deal with the fact that weapons have never been above the Karman Line before, so you'd have to oppose and win against the International Space Treaty of 1967, the Geneva Convention of 1985 and the politicians of every space-faring nation first.

 

Weapons have never been to space before, so people would be against starting a war there.

 

For further information about the logistical unsoundness and tactical nightmare that would be invasions of other planets at even a conjectual level of technological knowledge, see the movie Avatar.

 

Motivation B: Religious

 

Most religions when adhering to their proper tenants do not want to start wars. Anyone that does is either misinterpreting their doctrine, or their religion is kind of a looney one. And even so, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism and Atheism are all pretty at-war with themselves, so there's not much sense in the added complexity and expense of getting another party involved that couldn't care less.

 

Motivation C: For the Hell of it

 

Seriously?

You wouldn't rather invade Zaire or North Korea?

You want to invade a merry land of candy-colored ponies?

Are you like a sadist or something?

 

The Russians put a 37mm autocannon into orbit and tested it on the Mir, once. Found it was pretty effective, too.

http://en.wikipedia....o-space_weapons

Ah, the wiki corrected me. It wasn't Mir, it was a dedicated military space station.

 

Anyhoot, behind doors of secrecy, I doubt any countries really respect that treaty. But certainly an invasion would mean making it public.

 

And if we're going to go "interstellar" on them, then that would be very bad. Not only would we be far, far more powerful, but our weapons would be speculation. Against speculation. In speculation...

 

That's like... Speculation to the third power!

(Speculation within a speculation within a speculation! It's the third layer of speculation! It's too unstable!

*Inception music*: DAAAAHHHH. DAAHHHHH. DAAAAHHHH.)

 

Can... can you do that? Can you speculate thrice?

 

 

But no, really, I'd try to keep it modern or near-modern tech. Way too debatable if it's all futuristic. The farthest I'd go is near-future.

[spas-ticShotty 3,582]

Well, yeah, it would make for an interesting invasion. But with all the weapons the humans have, they don't have one thing.

 

Magic.

 

So they can just teleport all of the human equipment, which would cause mass confusion, mass chaos, and morale to plummet.

 

All and all, humans are fucked if they try.

 

What if we tried to surprise EMP them? I wonder if EMP's would block out magic, like it blocks out electricity and can ignite some fuel.

 

Also, to give a list of what we have to pit againts them and what ponies have to pit againts us, it would be.....

 

Humans:

F-22 Raptor

F-18 Super Hornet

AV-8B Harrier

B-2 Stealth Bomber

AH-6 Little Bird

AH-64 Apache

UH-1 "Huey"

F-15 Eagle

B-52 Carpet Bomber

MiG-29

MiG-31

Su-30Mk1 Flanker

F-16 Falcon

MQ9 Reaper

MQ1 Predator

AH-1Z Viper

AH-1 Cobra

M1 Abram

T-90

AC-130

V-22 Osprey

Mi-28

Mi-24

Dassault Rafale

Aircraft carriers in general

Destroyers

Submarines

A-10 Thunderbolt "Warthog"

 

etc, etc, etc..........

 

and ponies have.....

 

Ponies:

Wonderbolts

Royal Guard

Spears

Arrows

Cannons

Magic

 

As you can see, we would pretty much dominate them if they didn't have magic, because that makes it a whole lot tougher on us. Of course, someone from the Mane 6/Celestia/Luna/Cadance/Shining Armor/any good pony would try to reason with us since they are mostly loving and hate violence and all that stuff. Of course, we probably wouldn't attack them in the first place, we'd just try to settle a truce or something like that.

 

But that list was to show what was gonna be on the battlefield if we started attacking them (Which would make me lose faith in humanity all the way -_-)

[Comet Tail 808]

@Leatherneck,

Sorry, I forgot to say kudos to the military service. I had no idea I was posting to someone who knew the rifles better than myself from experience.

 

I was just a bit edgy - I'm very tired of Call of Duty players and Russia-lovers proclaiming the AK as the greatest rifle ever in every way, despite it being rather shabby. Durable, sure, but shabby.

 

Alright. I've read over all six long pages of this thread.

 

First, I'd like to say that I'm amazed at how confident you all are in the military.

 

Now, to start.

 

Every time a human supporter is given the scenario in which a pony escapes, it always ends up with a bullet in its head. This would never happen by default. If it's a unicorn, temporary force field, if it's a pegasus, it can dodge, and if it's an earth pony, the same rule applies as if it were a pegasus. You can't always be 100% confident that your bullet will hit the target perfectly, because it just won't happen. Humans are prone to making mistakes. And I also take into account the fact that an earth pony or pegasus can't always dodge a bullet, either. If they do, hooray, and if not, a tear will be shed. I reckon that pegasi are much more capable of dodging things than an earth pony, so I'd have to say their chances at life are 50-60%. As for an earth pony, likely 30-40% (maybe less).

 

After that, we have the issue of nuclear weapons. I'd like to say that the "Shining Armor's field was destroyed by changelings banging on it" argument isn't true. Shining Armor was exerting a large amount of energy, and the field required some degree of concentration, but do note that upon the field breaking, it was already extremely weak. Chrysalis was weakening him the entire time, and the field wouldn't have lasted much longer even without the changelings banging on it. In truth, I'd have to go with the reasoning that a nuclear strike wouldn't easily penetrate a unicorn's force field, and if the unicorn in question has half the magical ability of Twilight Sparkle, then he or she should be able to slow the missile or redirect it altogether. Yes, some missiles detonate by proximity, some by impact, and some by timer, and in this case an impact missile wouldn't likely receive a great enough impact force to detonate if it has been slowed down, rendering it useless. If redirected, it wouldn't take much more effort to make it fly back to where it came from, even if very slowly, in my opinion.One detonating from proximity wouldn't be likely to make it past the unicorn's force field, and one detonating by a timer would explode in the air if slowed.

 

And logical reasoning dictates that if a nuclear missile can't penetrate the field of a unicorn, neither can a bullet.

 

As for a pegasus, I'll go with the fact that a winged, quick-moving, and agile creature would be able to dodge a much larger, bulky missile. With warfare already happening, I doubt the unicorns on the ground wouldn't have some sort of shield up. As for an earth pony, the chances of surviving a missile are less likely, but who would directly lock a nuclear missile onto one organism?

 

Your answer for grenades is here as well. Explosives as such are thrown, and detonate either on impact or once the spark lights the explosives inside. Seeing as they are thrown, and humans have lesser physical limitations than ponies, the grenade can be easily redirected unless launched at high speeds from a machine. And then, refer to my bullet and missile reasoning above.

 

The basic things are there. Ponies won't be completely impervious to what humans throw at them, but are perfectly capable of providing a fight. Us humans will mostly rely on explosives, strategy, and bullets, if I'm not mistaken, and that can be matched by the brain power of certain ponies and the abilities of these creatures altogether.

 

After that, we've noted that ponies are familiar with some modern technology. Early computers (that analysis machine in Twilight's basement), tanks, cannons, and light artillery (guns and the sort, which should be included by default considering tanks are available) are some of the things they are already familiar with, if not already have, and will quickly be able to know the potential of our weapons (if this is a present and near-future experience).

 

Equestria has two goddesses (if not, then demigoddesses) that have enough magical power to move giant celestial bodies a great distance away at unfathomable speeds. Why not crash a large object (NOT THE SUN OR THE MOON) into invading forces? And yes, a bullet to the head would be fatal, even to them, but I doubt a bullet hole anywhere else in the body couldn't be repaired rather quickly, as goddesses (or even demigoddesses) should have some degree of healing ability by default. If the bullet penetrates the brain, they will almost certainly be damaged majorly, if not killed, but taking into account that they have magical ability far beyond that of a normal pony, the chances to occurrence of a bullet penetrating the brain are very VERY slim.

 

And I doubt that once somepony notices that there is a major threat to the country and/or the world that they will hesitate to alert the princesses.

 

As for dragons and other non-pony creatures, dragons have bulletproof scales, griffons have similar, if not congruent flying abilities as pegasi, zebras are like earth ponies with less strength, the same applies to mules, donkeys, and other members of that family. Parasprites may be able to wreak havoc on the human machines if used correctly. Animals will undoubtedly fight back if they know their world is in danger.

 

And, finally, we have a certain being named Discord. Note that Discord was only IMPRISONED in stone, not TURNED INTO stone, meaning that if the barrier breaks, a certain being will be set free, and that being (pardon my language) can do whatever he wants without giving a flying fuck about physics, universal laws, or any other thing. I'm sure that if he saw that the place (though the inhabitants of that place imprisoned him) he previously called a home was in danger, he'd do whatever he could (everything) to fight whatever was killing it.

 

Unless, of course, Discord is the biggest dick in the universe, which I doubt anyone could be that big of a dick (bad enough on the human's part for attacking a beautiful and peaceful land in the first place).

 

Discord, the Princesses, and magic solidify my opinion on who would win in a complete invasion.

 

But I have one final question for you Earth supporters to answer.

 

Should this ever come true, certainly, you have plans for everything, but where the hell will you get the money to do all of this? Imagine how many tons of resources it would take to make all of this and transport it to another star system. Like, really? You'll waste that much to invade another country for resources? For real?

 

Please let me know if I've missed anything!

 

Bullets: The only unicorns that have ever brought a shield up are Sparkles. That family has some real extraordinary magic skill, I highly doubt it's typical. Shining Armor and Celestia's own protege and bearer of the element of magic, Twilight Sparkle. Shining Armor also said he's the only one that can cast that shield.

 

As for dodging, bullets are supersonic (or, at least anything other than shotgun or handgun bullets), you hear the shot after you're hit.

 

I'm pretty confident in what I said about Twi stopping bullets earlier, too. The average unicorn has MUCH LESS a chance of ever doing so. My guess is Rarity was pretty aggressive/mad when she threw those pillows, and she threw them hard. That's probably about what an average unicorn can do. (Though, seeing as Rarity would focus more on precision than strength (due to work with thread and needle), and a lot of her magic is gemfinding, you could argue she's weaker than average)

 

As for missles, those are even worse. Massing about a ton, or two is my rough semi-educated guesstimate (they're about the size of a person and by necessity include some very heavy materials), re-entry vehicles from an ICBM are not only that massive, but also travel at the very least, three times faster than a bullet at near-impact point, and thus have, probably more, but at least nine times as much energy (KE = 1/2 mv^2, velocity squared), IF they had the same mass as a bullet. Add their, about 500x-2000x heavier mass, and you get something nigh-unstoppable.

 

Honestly, I don't know what detonation system they use, but they normally detonate in the air, as another note. That gives them a farther reach, actually. None of them are impact-sensitive, at least I don't think. It doesn't strike me as likely, though I may be wrong, but at those speeds, and the enormous mind-boggling pressure of hitting the atmosphere, and when they hit the ground it might destroy them before they could detonate, and I don't see the pressure plates on the front that artillary rounds have. I may be wrong, but It's extremely unlikely any are impact-sensitive.

 

 

What if we tried to surprise EMP them? I wonder if EMP's would block out magic, like it blocks out electricity and can ignite some fuel.

 

Also, to give a list of what we have to pit againts them and what ponies have to pit againts us, it would be.....

 

Humans:

F-22 Raptor

F-18 Super Hornet

AV-8B Harrier

B-2 Stealth Bomber

AH-6 Little Bird

AH-64 Apache

UH-1 "Huey"

F-15 Eagle

B-52 Carpet Bomber

MiG-29

MiG-31

Su-30Mk1 Flanker

F-16 Falcon

MQ9 Reaper

MQ1 Predator

AH-1Z Viper

AH-1 Cobra

M1 Abram

T-90

AC-130

V-22 Osprey

Mi-28

Mi-24

Dassault Rafale

Aircraft carriers in general

Destroyers

Submarines

A-10 Thunderbolt "Warthog"

 

etc, etc, etc..........

 

and ponies have.....

 

Ponies:

Wonderbolts

Royal Guard

Spears

Arrows

Cannons

Magic

 

As you can see, we would pretty much dominate them if they didn't have magic, because that makes it a whole lot tougher on us. Of course, someone from the Mane 6/Celestia/Luna/Cadance/Shining Armor/any good pony would try to reason with us since they are mostly loving and hate violence and all that stuff. Of course, we probably wouldn't attack them in the first place, we'd just try to settle a truce or something like that.

 

But that list was to show what was gonna be on the battlefield if we started attacking them (Which would make me lose faith in humanity all the way -_-)

 

Of course EMP's stop magical ability!

 

I know this from my battlefield experience against the Protoss!

 

Drops shields, and keeps them from casting "spells"!

 

Lol, in all seriousness, no idea. Probably wouldn't do anything, though. You'd have to mail the studio and ask them to write some canon on EMP-anti-magic capability

[sirseansy 87]

Alright. Here's why it would fail.

 

First off: What is the motive of the invasion? What nation is invading? Unless this is an international attack based on an extreme motive, the attack would fail. Although there are not currently any actual treaties that protect nations that are not of this dimension from an attack by any force, the basis of social contract theory states that an attack or invasion of a peaceful nation without solid evidence of that nation being a clear and present danger to society at large will merit any measures necessary to impede that invasion. i.e. If it is just one country (or a group of countries) going after Equestria, A more powerful military will come in to stop the invasion.

 

Secondly: The brony community would not allow the attack to happen. As promoters of peace, love, and tolerance, and as lovers of the land of Equestria, nobody in our community would allow this invasion to take place. Our power comes from the fact that we have the most intelligence on the matter of said invasion. We know everything about Equestria because we MADE it what it is. We know the topography, the culture, the biology, EVERYTHING. This means that our cooperation is necessary if the invasion is to take place. Our voice is made louder by the fact that we know what they don't.

 

Thirdly: Humans don't understand the terrain or biology. There are hydras, manticores, cockatrices, dragons, and many other dangerous animals that humans have no idea how to deal with. The topography of Equestria is all KINDS of messed up. bogs, deserts, mountain ranges, plains, everything. All of it grouped together in a way that humans have never even imagined before. All of this makes for an extremely dangerous place for humans to even step foot. Especially if they happen to be trying to invade...

 

Fourthly: According to fanfiction, Ponies have guns, and are damn good shots.

 

Finally: Ponies.The dominate race of Equestria are a species with the intelligence of humans, and the physical abilities of horses. That makes them stronger AND faster than us. Oh, and by the way: two thirds of those ponies can FLY or DO MAGIC! Pegasi appear to be able to fly with the same speed, and with greater accuracy, than human fighter jets. Magic is what allows Equestria's monarch deities to move the SUN and MOON! Did I forget to mention that the royal family can both do magic AND fly? Oh hey! The elements of Harmony! That shit turns malevolent deities into STONE! The power of love is able to banish entire armies of pony like creatures that can CHANGE THEIR SHAPE in Equestria. The shyest of ponies is able to control creatures by staring at them. Some ponies are able to defy the laws of physics on a regular basis all while wielding a party cannon.

 

Bottom line: Humans are bucked.

 

EDIT: All this being said, the MAIN points are basically the first, third, and last. The whole idea of an invasion works under the pretense that diplomacy suddenly doesn't exist. Under the status quo, there are very few nations that would be so rash as to actually attack equestria, and of those, very few would actually be capable of doing so. ultimately, NATO forces would probably step in even without any treaties signed.

Equestria has terrain and biology that we can't even begin to understand and that gives the ponies a MAJOR advantage.

Ponies are a more advanced race than humans. they have physical abilities that combine those of humans, horses, and birds of prey. They fly faster, run faster, jump higher, and do many other things with greater skill and physical prowess than humans. And they do magic. final story.

Edited June 24, 2012 by sirseansy

[AnonymousTheSecond 47]

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Edited March 21, 2021 by AnonymousTheSecond