Conjecture on a hypothetical human invasion of Equestria?

[Stoner Spike 185]

Rarity, who has openly admitted she's not that good at magic, was able to redirect objects coming at her. Imagine what a militarily trained opponent would do?

M-47? Must be something new, because I only remember seeing the Mark 19's. Fun stuff either way...some days I miss being in the Corps. xD

 

I haven't calculated the number yet, but you can garuntee that it won't be anymore than 10% of the total population of the earth at the time of the invasion.

Think current and near future. If physics can't make it realistically feasible then it isn't going.(i.e. unless it's a tank/ship they aren't going to have railguns/beam weapons)

 

I imagine in time it would involve more than just the ponies. I can easily forsee the zebras and griffons joining the fray, and the diamond dogs would pose a problem to the invasion force as well.

 

Eeyup, a human invasion on Equestria would certainly fail. Ponies are able to redirect projectiles, we won't have that many people fighting for us (because I'm sure that many people will refuse to invade a beautiful and seemingly defenseless world), we may be very technologically advanced, but face it, horses with magical abilities and wings. You can't tell me that we're more biologically advanced. And even if we were technologically advanced enough to send troops to another planet, let alone travel outside of the solar system (under the circumstance that Equestria is on another planet not in the solar system), we wouldn't have the whole world fighting to take control of Equestria, but Equestria would likely have the entire population (or at least what good we've seen) fighting off the invading forces. We've only seen the population of Ponyville and Canterlot as of now, imagine how many more magically capable unicorns or pegasi capable of flying there are. And even after that, earth ponies like Applejack with physical strength beyond what we've ever achieved. Even with a nuclear strike or something of that sort, I doubt the ponies will be so silly as to let a deadly looking rocket reach impact point. And after that, they can redirect projectiles, rendering grenades, bullets, and things like that ineffective. Even with a surprise attack, we could only hope to kill as much as possible, and then the fight would begin, and for reasons explained above, we would die.

 

So, yeah.

 

Biological Greatness>Technological Greatness.

[The Awesome One 1,314]

Humans would simply build a bomb so terrifying, it would make the Hiroshima and Nagasaki explosions look like grenade bangs. One for each major city.

 

Sonic Rainboom or not, I don't see how Ponies can beat humans because they don't have guns, nukes, bombs, grenades, bazookas and I could just go on and on.

 

Also, in the world wars, technology developed very fast. That was because it was war. If the humans planned to invade Equestria, they'd definitely come up with some more terrifying WMD's.

Edited June 23, 2012 by The Awesome Invader

[Scritches 91]

1) We would definitely use nuclear weapons if it was the only option. Assuming no conventional artillery could be used to defeat Equestria, we wouldn't decide to go into a war which we would know we would lose if we didn't use WMDs.

How would we know that conventional tactics wouldn't work unless we'd already tried? This discussion is about just such an invasion.

 

I mean, if we stop, the ponies might strike back and we can't risk that so the only safe option would be to use WMDs.

When have the ponies ever exibited aggressive or vengeful military behavior?

 

I mean, imagine if we went to war with aliens and had a beam of ultimate destruction. Are you saying we would not use the beam because of our ethics? No, we would use the beam.

Who is to say we would even have beams capable of doing such things? Although I can't find a link to it, I once saw an interview with a physicist who touted that there isn't a power source powerful enough to do the kind of damage we see in Halo(e.g. the "glassing" beams) let alone one that could anihilate an entire city. As for the ethics, I see it as VERY unlikely that we would go about a complete anihilation of entire species.

 

2) We cannot fight a interplanetary war with current technology, it is simply not possible to do so. We can't even carry soldiers in effective amounts so if we are seriously considering this topic we either have to use extremely advanced technology, some that even ponies can't defeat or we would be fighting on Earth where this is not an issue. Also if it was interplanetary we wouldn't have to worry about WMDs affecting our environment.

 

Just because we'd be using warpgate/jumpgate/wormhole/FTL transport doesn't mean we'd have anything more than standard small arms being used on the ground. Militaries tend to be sticks in the mud about changing hand held weapons, case in point the AK-47(and it's derivatives) and the M-16(and it's derivatives). The M-16 is a pretty shitty rifle when it comes to performance and STILL the DOD refuses to move onto other rifles for their service rifles even after 50 years of less than stellar performance. The AK-47 is a VERY popular firearm that is used by more militaries of the world than any other service rifle and it's been around for 65 years, that's longer than the service period of the M-1 Garand or M-14 which are better in many regards. Why? Because they are cheap and easily produced. Likewise rockets/missiles are still effective weapon systems, they may get more sophisticated however they'll still be around. We might have mechs, however I imagine that tanks are going to be around for a LONG time. Oh yeah, ponies have tanks too.

 

3) Even so, if it was human technology vs ponies we would win. I mean, we don't know the extent to their power but even the radiation of a WMD would probably kill of ponies.

 

May I remind you that the Viet Cong were able to be an extremely effective fighting force despite their lack of technology because of how they fought. High technology does not garuntee victory.

4) We aren't debating motives here. It could be for gaining of resources or it could be to simply as an act of defense against a future threat.

Oh? We're not? I thought this was my discussion...but what do I know? *ponyshrugs*

 

I'm just going to say, we would never invade Equestria. It is most likely we would form diplomatic relationships with them.

 

I agree that this is the likeliest outcome, invasion or not.

 

Logisitical failure. Communiactions breakdown, and than failure of continuing supplies. Unless Patton was leading the charge, they'd get a single jab and then get stuck high-and-dry in the middle of their invasion.

 

This is because (as proven in The Sonic Rainboom and The Cutie Mark Chronicles) sound travels faster than light.

 

Finally someone who thinks in logistical terms!

[Dreadmallon 353]

Because I said so.

[I used to be a stranger 7,988]

Because I said so.

 

Motivation of ten thousand failed magnum opus contrived fics.

[Scritches 91]

Humans would simply build a bomb so terrifying, it would make the Hiroshima and Nagasaki explosions look like grenade bangs. One for each major city.

They already do, it's called the Tsar Bomba and even it has it's limitations.

 

Sonic Rainboom or not, I don't see how Ponies can beat humans because they don't have guns, nukes, bombs, grenades, bazookas and I could just go on and on.

 

Ponies have artillery(think Pinkie's party cannon, there has to be a real version somewhere) and tanks(there have been at least two such references in the show to their existence and purpose). Ponies likewise aren't stupid, they would be able to figure out the capabilities of those weapons fairly quickly. After all even a 5 year old can figure out that a bazooka fires rockets.(I would know! I was drawing pictures of such things when I was in kindergarten back when the USSR was the bad guys.) That aside weapons alone don't win wars. Good tactical skills and strategies are far more important than even the greatest bombs and weapons.

Also, in the world wars, technology developed very fast. That was because it was war. If the humans planned to invade Equestria, they'd definitely come up with some more terrifying WMD's.

As I said before, nuclear weapons have pretty much hit their physical limitations that aside there hasn't been any advancement of nuclear technology as a weapon in decades. I don't see that changing much into the future, esspecially if there is a unified earth government which would have likely disarmed themselves of them, which is something that much of the western world has been working towards for decades. Also ponies have technology too and at their pace they are advancing at a much faster rate. Pony tech has been estimated to be roughly equivalent to the 1920's but they have already developed crude computers(twilight has one in her basement lab) some 20 years before they're supposed to be around(e.g. ENIAC, google it! ).

[Typhoid Libby 1,265]

Cutesy monarchistic ponies living in a single country about the size of US of fucking A Vs a society which wages war on information front more than it does on the actual bullet level?

 

Ponies are screwed in 20 minutes from the outset of such an engagement.

 

There would not be an engagement, that implies readiness against society that employs information warfare and has a upper hand in IT.

It's not a gap that can be crossed.

Logistics are not a factor, everything will be crippled for ponies before there even is a exchange of bullets.

 

Besides, US navy SEAL team alone is enough to depopulate Ponyville times four if it comes to that.

[Bronium 512]

@Leatherback.

1) I did say assume. If we find that our conventional means of artilellery could defeat Equestria, you already answered your question and if we find out that said conventions do not work, do you think we won't use nukes?

 

2) We know these creatures from the show, but if we met them in real life, we can't assume that they'd be so nice. We can't sacrifice our civilization on such an assumption. Better safe than sorry right?

 

3) I wasn't saying it was possible. I was giving a hypothetical situation. Substitute death ray with life obliterating machine. Also, we aren't gonna talk physics. I mean, ponies...magic...this isn't exactly all that scientific.

 

4) I'll concede this. If the military is so slow as to adopt new technologies, well it can't be helped.

 

5) Yeah, but we are trained in warfare, ponies have a relatively few (from what we've seen) and I can only assume aren't quite as prepared to face us as they have not seen our technology, even in the slightest. They are leagues behind us and therefore cannot know what they are facing. I mean, they used pikes for Celestia's sake. Come on. The grunts would be wiped out in an instant. We are in the millions.

 

6) I was talking about this converse between us. We, as in us, were discussing the actual fight, I think and not the motives behind it all. You can do whatever you want.

[Scritches 91]

Assuming that humans wanted to invade Equestria and could get there

 

Many people wouldn't want to go and would be adamantly opposed to it. Some truths of war will never change. One thing to consider is that even if Equestria were in the nearest star system to earth, it will take 8 years to get a reply for any message sent to earth.

It's called drop a nuke on Canterlot. No magic force-field can stop that.

 

Oh? The forcefields can't take that kind of blast? What episode do you base this off of? Also as I have said before there is a very high likelyhood that they may not be authorized the use of such force.

Given that an assault rifle probably has a longer range than pony magic, people could just shoot all the ponies before the ponies had a chance to do any damage. You can't lose!

 

Most combat is done within 300 yards, Marines train to be effective up to 500 yards(I still rmember my DI's pounding that fact in to our little recruit brains in boot camp). The max effective range of most assault rifles is roughly no more than about 800-900 yards. I wonder what the distance is from Equestria to either the sun or moon, as Celestia and Luna(and the unicorns before them) didn't have any trouble using their magic to move them despite the distance. As for a magical shield? That doesn't seem to require much range, but considering that there are ponies who can cast those sheilds around entire buildings/cities(Twilight and Shining Armor for example) I am certain that it will complicate the effectiveness of even a sniper rifle used by a skilled sniper and likely artillery too. Edited June 23, 2012 by Leatherneck

[I used to be a stranger 7,988]

Okay, hypothetical:

 

Motivation A: Resources

A1: Equestria is an Earth country

 

Assuming Equestria follows the parameters of most maps and information made about itself in the show, Equestria is not very large. Places that are inferred to be very far away can be travelled-to and returned-from in a single day. (It's About Time, Winter Wrap Up). I would assume the size of Belgium. Granted, magic would have a great deal of an advantage over any of the most advanced conventional arms, but compared to any demonstrated efforts in-show, most armor and tactical systems employed by Earth's armies would offset this a great deal. A nuclear deployment would defeat the purpose of the invasion, because it would destroy the resources that were the objective in the first place.

 

On the whole, it would be about as clean and efficient as Russia trying to invade the United States with an amphibious landing and tanks. It would be a catastrophic mess from one end of the ribbon to the other, with massive casualties and large expense.

 

A2: Equestria is on another Planet

 

Firstly you'd have to deal with the fact that weapons have never been above the Karman Line before, so you'd have to oppose and win against the International Space Treaty of 1967, the Geneva Convention of 1985 and the politicians of every space-faring nation first.

 

Weapons have never been to space before, so people would be against starting a war there.

 

For further information about the logistical unsoundness and tactical nightmare that would be invasions of other planets at even a conjectual level of technological knowledge, see the movie Avatar.

 

Motivation B: Religious

 

Most religions when adhering to their proper tenants do not want to start wars. Anyone that does is either misinterpreting their doctrine, or their religion is kind of a looney one. And even so, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism and Atheism are all pretty at-war with themselves, so there's not much sense in the added complexity and expense of getting another party involved that couldn't care less.

 

Motivation C: For the Hell of it

 

Seriously?

You wouldn't rather invade Zaire or North Korea?

You want to invade a merry land of candy-colored ponies?

Are you like a sadist or something?

Edited June 23, 2012 by Blue

[caesar15 231]

Well, yeah, it would make for an interesting invasion. But with all the weapons the humans have, they don't have one thing.

 

Magic.

 

So they can just teleport all of the human equipment, which would cause mass confusion, mass chaos, and morale to plummet.

 

All and all, humans are fucked if they try.

 

You have to have really good magic, and so far, very few ponies can teleport, it requires a lot of magic, plus, they cant teleport all the human equipment at once.

[Typhoid Libby 1,265]

I am certain that it will complicate the effectiveness of even a sniper rifle used by a skilled sniper and likely artillery too.

 

Sniper rifles are ambush weapons.

You hit vulnerabilities, not hard points.

Pretty much the same with arty these days.

 

Why would you shoot at them shields in the first place? You would not.

Also as I have said before there is a very high likelyhood that they may not be authorized the use of such force.

 

Nukes are authorized when ever conventional weapons do not work.

Hard-point immune to conventional weapons? It would get nuked.

 

And, it's a fission device. It would break thru. That's what it does. It messes up everything.

 

Most combat is done within 300 yards,

 

No, combat is fought at a range the superior force dictates it is fought on.

There are no rules, and more mobile force ALWAYS dictates where it is fought.

 

That would be humans, and it would be at upwards of few miles, with the main assets either at orbit, or at indirect fire range.

Either way, ponies would not even see humans when they die.

[Scritches 91]

Cutesy monarchistic ponies living in a single country about the size of US of fucking A Vs a society which wages war on information front more than it does on the actual bullet level?

 

Let's theorize that Equestria is int he nearest star system to earth(Centauri system ~4 light years from earth). Any information gathered by satellites and sent back to earth for evaluation alone would be 4 years outdated by the time the invasion force arrived.

 

Ponies are screwed in 20 minutes from the outset of such an engagement.

 

No invasion of any country has ever been achieved in such a short time, let alone an entire world.

 

There would not be an engagement, that implies readiness against society that employs information warfare and has a upper hand in IT.

It's not a gap that can be crossed.

Logistics are not a factor, everything will be crippled for ponies before there even is a exchange of bullets.

 

Logistics are a HUGE factor, esspecially if this is on a different planet in a distant star system. You have to keep troops fed, you have to give them places to stay and sleep. That means setting up rearward areas supporting forward operating bases(FOB's for short). Then there is the transportation of essential supplies such as ammunition, food, water, and personnel plus securing routes for said supplies, which is another thing that must be patrolled on a regular basis. That would require an increasinly large force that is finitely sized, there would be no reinforcements from earth. You would have to go with everything that you will need for the entire campaign all in one trip. That alone is a logistical nightmare.

 

Besides, US navy SEAL team alone is enough to depopulate Ponyville times four if it comes to that.

 

It would be interesting to see what they would be capable of doing that given the physical/magical abilities of some ponies. After all the ponies have developed some level of stealth/manuever warfare as well as evidenced by the camouflage used by the mane 6 in "Dragon Quest". I imagine that Equestria has a force equivalent to the SEALs themselves.

 

Okay, hypothetical:

 

 

 

Motivation A: Resources

A1: Equestria is an Earth country

 

Assuming Equestria follows the parameters of most maps and information made about itself in the show, Equestria is not very large. Places that are inferred to be very far away can be travelled-to and returned-from in a single day. (It's About Time, Winter Wrap Up). I would assume the size of Belgium. Granted, magic would have a great deal of an advantage over any of the most advanced conventional arms, but compared to any demonstrated efforts in-show, most armor and tactical systems employed by Earth's armies would offset this a great deal. A nuclear deployment would defeat the purpose of the invasion, because it would destroy the resources that were the objective in the first place.

 

On the whole, it would be about as clean and efficient as Russia trying to invade the United States with an amphibious landing and tanks. It would be a catastrophic mess from one end of the ribbon to the other, with massive casualties and large expense.

 

A2: Equestria is on another Planet

 

Firstly you'd have to deal with the fact that weapons have never been above the Karman Line before, so you'd have to oppose and win against the International Space Treaty of 1967, the Geneva Convention of 1985 and the politicians of every space-faring nation first.

 

Weapons have never been to space before, so people would be against starting a war there.

 

For further information about the logistical unsoundness and tactical nightmare that would be invasions of other planets at even a conjectual level of technological knowledge, see the movie Avatar.

 

Motivation B: Religious

 

Most religions when adhering to their proper tenants do not want to start wars. Anyone that does is either misinterpreting their doctrine, or their religion is kind of a looney one. And even so, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism and Atheism are all pretty at-war with themselves, so there's not much sense in the added complexity and expense of getting another party involved that couldn't care less.

 

Motivation C: For the Hell of it

 

Seriously?

You wouldn't rather invade Zaire or North Korea?

You want to invade a merry land of candy-colored ponies?

Are you like a sadist or something?

 

 

I like EVERYTHING you have said here. I think you and I are going to need to collaborate on this. Edited June 23, 2012 by Leatherneck

[Typhoid Libby 1,265]

Let's theorize that Equestria is int he nearest star system to earth(Centauri system ~4 light years from earth). Any information gathered by satellites and sent back to earth for evaluation alone would be 4 years outdated by the time the invasion force arrived.

 

Uhm, what?

Information warfare is fought ON-SITE against other computer systems.

Humanity has close to fifty years of ECM and ECCM technologies and systems.

Anything ponies base on computers would be owned by the invasion force once operations begin.

 

That's background information you are talking there and maps do not change all that much.

No invasion of any country has ever been achieved in such a short time, let alone an entire world.

 

It's not a world, it's a country. And with that huge of a technological disjoint? 20 mins is gracious.

You would have to go with everything that you will need for the entire campaign all in one trip.

 

It makes the logistics a non-issue.

I imagine that Equestria has a force equivalent to the SEALs themselves.

 

Hahah, no, not even close.

SEALs are a product of wars, no hippy society of grass-eaters can achieve that level of training, equipment and experience.

"Some level" is equivalent of a bull in a china shop to these guys.

 

SEALs are ambush troops.

There is no fair fight with these guys, you don't pit anything against navy SEALs, you just count your dead after they hit.

There is no defence against them.

[Scritches 91]

Sniper rifles are ambush weapons.

You hit vulnerabilities, not hard points. –I comepletely agree, that's why shields would render that kind of advantage in effective.

Pretty much the same with arty these days. –There are ways to counter even artillery, not many people call it "arty" outside the military. You've served before haven't you?

 

Why would you shoot at them shields in the first place? You would not. –You're right I wouldn't

 

Nukes are authorized when ever conventional weapons do not work. –I think Blue put it best when it came to this

 

And, it's a fission device. It would break thru. That's what it does. It messes up everything.

 

Do we know that for sure? Do we know that the Elements of Harmony would be unable to undo the damage such as when Discord. Also Discord...well let's not go there.

No, combat is fought at a range the superior force dictates it is fought on.

There are no rules, and more mobile force ALWAYS dictates where it is fought.

 

That would be humans, and it would be at upwards of few miles, with the main assets either at orbit, or at indirect fire range.

Either way, ponies would not even see humans when they die.

 

All in all I can see you've done your homework. However most ground engagements are still fought within 300 yards. And it's usually alot closer than that in urban combat. Also SEALs and Marines are notorious for engaging an enemy up close and personal.

 

Uhm, what?

Information warfare is fought ON-SITE against other computer systems.

Humanity has close to fifty years of ECM and ECCM technologies and systems.

Anything ponies base on computers would be owned by the invasion force once operations begin.

 

Seeing that the only computer we have seen in show seems to be little more than an analytical/calculation machine, I doubt there would be much hidden on computers in Equestria. As for the rest of that, that's your MOS isn't it?

 

That's background information you are talking there and maps do not change all that much.

 

It's not a world, it's a country. And with that huge of a technological disjoint? 20 mins is gracious.

 

It makes the logistics a non-issue.

 

How long do you think it will be until the other races of Equestria join in? Discord? The Zebras? The Griffons? The Changelings? It would quickly escalate into a world wide conflict, esspecially if the invasion's intent was to acquire resources.

 

Hahah, no, not even close.

SEALs are a product of wars, no hippy society of grass-eaters can achieve that level of training, equipment and experience.

"Some level" is equivalent of a bull in a china shop to these guys.

 

SEALs are ambush troops.

There is no fair fight with these guys, you don't pit anything against navy SEALs, you just count your dead after they hit.

There is no defence against them.

 

The guys in MarSOC might take issue with that "no fair fight" statement. xD Several forces on earth utilize nearly identical techniques, skills, and training to include the Russian Spetznaz, the Viet Cong, the Marine Raiders in WW2(who were one of America's first "special forces" groups though not in the modern sense), and even the Japanese, and Germans as early as WWI utilized some of the same techniques to some extent. Their method of warfare is summed up like this, small-unit, assymetrical, maneuver style warfare which utilizes surprise and stealth to achieve mission accomplishment. That kind of warfare required the development and usage of a certain kind of gear, specifically camouflage. One has to wonder what ponies would even need camouflage for considering there are only two real uses for it, hunting(which the ponies don't do, they're herbivores) and stealth warfare. And yet the mane 6 are seen using it, so at some point, the ponies developed a manner of warfare that called upon it and it's the same manner of warfare only this time around...magic.

 

This one is going to take awhile, and I can see that you've done your homework. I think I'll have to call upon you to colaborate on this as well.

 

*EDIT* That one took awhile! =_=;

Edited June 23, 2012 by Leatherneck

[Comet Tail 808]

We need to establish a few things first...

 

How do we get there?

 

Why are we invading?

 

Who's invading?

 

Those questions will determine what the human have, which will decide whether or not we win.

 

If we assume we're dead-set on invasion for some reason, then chances are we'll go there, fight, be shocked by how effective they are - never expecting how powerful their magic is - then get authorization for "hammer-down", at which point Equestria would become a radioactive wasteland, unless Celestia unveils some new spell or cuts off Equestria from our world.

 

But once again, it all depends on those three questions I asked. They need to be answered...

 

It's been proven that the unicorns can halt projectiles with their magic. And they have magical force fields nothing can penetrate. How can any weapon beat them if they can just erect force fields everywhere?

 

I've actually run the math, because I was curious to see if Twilight could stop bullets.

 

First, I assume magic works by conversion of thermal potential energy into kinetic energy. Since it's an energy conversion, and not a force vector, then that means unicorns have a certain amount of power. Literally, power, in watts, as to how much energy they can convert at rate. This leads to an acceleration.

 

I found the size of the water tower by comparing it to the Wonderbolts in "Secret of my Excess", and from that got an estimate of it's mass. I found it's acceleration when Twilight lifted it in "Boast Busters", and found out how much power that took.

 

I applied that to a standard shotgun round - travelling only 1,500 feet per second - and the results weren't good. It would take a few seconds for the bullet to come to a full stop. In those few seconds, it could easily travel a few football fields.

 

And kinetic energy goes up by the square of the velocity. A standard issue M-16 has a muzzle velocity of ~3,200 fps. Most rifles are around 2,700.

 

It really doesn't look good for stopping bullets.

 

As for shields -

 

we saw Shining Armor's shield broken by a bunch of oversized insects headbutting it and that was some serious, heavy duty shield!

So... Yeah.

 

Think current and near future. If physics can't make it realistically feasible then it isn't going.(i.e. unless it's a tank/ship they aren't going to have railguns/beam weapons)

 

Right, 'cause that's far-future stuff... Right?

 

Well, no.

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7qrGyvZPEU

 

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3zxxogDRIw&feature=related

 

 

And railguns:

 

 

Here's what the beauty looks like standalone:

 

IIRC, the DoD projected a range in the hundreds of miles.

 

Who is to say we would even have beams capable of doing such things? Although I can't find a link to it, I once saw an interview with a physicist who touted that there isn't a power source powerful enough to do the kind of damage we see in Halo(e.g. the "glassing" beams) let alone one that could anihilate an entire city. As for the ethics, I see it as VERY unlikely that we would go about a complete anihilation of entire species.

Thermonuclear warheads. The Tsar bomb actually did "Glass" the immediate target site, and it was tested at half it's design yield. Reason: at full 100 megaton yield, the carrying aircraft could not escape.

 

Just because we'd be using warpgate/jumpgate/wormhole/FTL transport doesn't mean we'd have anything more than standard small arms being used on the ground. Militaries tend to be sticks in the mud about changing hand held weapons, case in point the AK-47(and it's derivatives) and the M-16(and it's derivatives). The M-16 is a pretty shitty rifle when it comes to performance and STILL the DOD refuses to move onto other rifles for their service rifles even after 50 years of less than stellar performance. The AK-47 is a VERY popular firearm that is used by more militaries of the world than any other service rifle and it's been around for 65 years, that's longer than the service period of the M-1 Garand or M-14 which are better in many regards. Why? Because they are cheap and easily produced. Likewise rockets/missiles are still effective weapon systems, they may get more sophisticated however they'll still be around. We might have mechs, however I imagine that tanks are going to be around for a LONG time. Oh yeah, ponies have tanks too.

Maybe if it's mid-term future we might use something like this rifle. It's an old design, but nonetheless the type of thing that I'd expect to win the "Advanced Combat Rifle" competition one day. here's the link

 

And you've got the M-16 totally wrong, buddy.

 

The older M16A1 and A2 weren't great. Those were the ones that earned a horrible reputation in Vietnam. The A4, on the other hand, the one currently fielded, is an entirely different animal. Soldiers report never experiencing any issue despite being in a "dustbowl" of a desert, and all kinds of sand getting on the rifle. For one thing, it's aircraft-grade aluminum and titanium instead of plastic.

 

Also, it has such precision that it's been successfully adapted to longer ranged purposes as the "designated marksman rifle" - the intermediate role in-between assualt rifle and sniper rifle, that can engage at less than 1,000 yards.

 

And the smaller ammunition is an advantage - it really doesn't make much of a difference - two 5.56 mm rounds will work as well, better, in fact, than a single 7 mm - and you'll land two 5.56's on the target because of less recoil, whereas a 7mm, what the ak47 uses, offers awful recoil that will gauruntee you miss after the first shot. 5.56 also requires less logistics, lighter magazines, and allows a soldier to carry more.

 

I haven't shot an Ak-47, but I do know 7mm rifles are not suitable for automatic! But I have held one (awful weighting, btw, all the weight is in the front!), and I've shot M16's - they shoot like a dream, may I note. They live up to their precision and have almost no recoil.

 

Higher muzzle velocity, which will offer better penatration, longer ranger, far more precise, less recoil, and 3-shot burst are the advantages the M-16 has over the AK. What does the AK have? It's cheap. It's the perfect weapon for an army that doesn't value the lives of it's individual soldiers. It's as disposable as their soldiers are. The AK, by nature of being so simple and cheap, is also slightly more rugged than modern M16's (and far, far more than older ones)... Maybe. That one's debatable.

 

The AK-47 truly is a bit more rugged, but the M16A4 is just as good if you take care of it. Key is, that requires more soldier training, which for an army that has a "disposable soldier, win by numbers" warfighting doctrine, isn't a good thing, so they choose the rifle that takes less training.

 

But we are willing, able, and care more to spend more on each soldier. Few militaries in the world would do the things we do to keep everyone alive - I even recall stories of U.S. medics caring for enemy soldiers that were shot by U.S. soldiers. So we're willing to pay that extra to train the soldiers more, so that the M16A4 is just as durable as the AK. More expensive, for a higher-quality non-disposable soldier, that's the U.S. warfighting doctrine, and that's why we choose the M-16 over the AK.

 

May I remind you that the Viet Cong were able to be an extremely effective fighting force despite their lack of technology because of how they fought. High technology does not garuntee victory.

Oh? We're not? I thought this was my discussion...but what do I know? *ponyshrugs*

 

Well, in Vietnam, we actually had a kill ratio around 10:1, with us in the lead. They only won because we relied on infantry too much, fought in a jungle they were used to (see: Never go to war with Russia in Siberia in the Winter), were vastly outnumbered, and we had ridiculous rules of engagement that didn't make it legal to shoot, practically, unless you were already dead. All things considered, we performed excellently there. And we didn't actually lose - we just lost the will and didn't see the point to keep fighting. I wonder if done correctly - continuous air campaign, heavy armor support, real war-time rules of engagement - fought more like Iraq than Vietnam - we could've saved a lot of lives and won the war.

 

But on the other hand, our problem has always been China. They have half the world's population, and conscript soldiers! We have 20% world population, and the vast majority of the time work with a volunteer force.

 

When the Chinese entered Korea, we drew the DMZ and left (technically that war has never ended).

I can't quiet remember, but I suspect it was something similar for when we left Vietnam.

 

It's their sheer numbers.

 

 

The situation would be reversed in Equestria - at a pre-industrial period, their world population would be extremely low compared to ours.

 

Compare it to our world population history. They have probably around 500 million.

We will have more than an entire order of magnitude more than that. That's a much, much bigger number advantage than the Chinese had on NATO in Korea.

[KakeiTheWolf 652]

Video from the actual episode of an unicorn stopping something that moving fast or didn't happen

 

Besides, those bullets are moving well much faster than Rainbow Dash

 

Video proof, at 12:40 to 12:42 -

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-bh2_8NGWY

 

Now, considering how noticeable either a missile or a nuke are, considering how far they have to travel to reach their target, do you really think no one would notice in time?

 

And actually, the average bullets move around 750 mph. In level flight, Rainbow Dash does slightly in excess of 300 miles per hour. In Sonic Rainboom (Episode, not event), she goes approximately the speed of the X-15a rocket plane (~Mach 7), and during the Rainboom itself, she goes (Judging by the "stretch" by bending the light spectrum due to high acceleration) about 10,000 mph, which is around Mach 13. At this speed, even a Barret .50 calibur bullet would be left in the dust, going only 1947.187187... mph.

[Starshine 16,330]

Video proof, at 12:40 to 12:42 -

 

A pillow?

 

Oh yeah. And I'm pretty sure she can stop my bullets when I got like twenty rounds here. I'm the invading soldier, hence of course I got to carry a whole shit of guns and bullets, right?

 

But if you want to make the ponies as the God-Sue species, I understand

Edited June 23, 2012 by Dreamwalker

[Typhoid Libby 1,265]

All in all I can see you've done your homework.

This one is going to take awhile, and I can see that you've done your homework. I think I'll have to call upon you to colaborate on this as well.

 

I am Kohr-Ah.

I do not collaborate.

 

Week1:

 

-Fleet "Homebound" sets up OP-HQ in the asteroid belt of Equestria.

-Diplomatic channels opened.

-Construction begins.

-War Fleet sets course for planetary orbit.

-Official Declaration of War.

-Payload released.

 

Week2:

 

-OP-HQ running.

-Fifty 2 meter diameter tungsten alloy rods hit the equestrian continent and eradicate all major population centers and military facilities.

-War Fleet sets into orbit.

-Bombardment begins.

 

Week3:

 

-90% of population dead, no organized resistance possible.

-Troop drops begin.

 

Week4:

 

-Extermination complete.

-Construction of planetary facilities begins.

 

There is no war if the opposing force is capable of interstellar travel.

Weapons such an civilization is capable of employing are far too efficient and destructive to counter by a civilization in outset of it's space age.

 

If humanity were to engage in such a warfare, we would ensure victory by the methods of travel alone.

Accelerate something to a high enough velocity, and it becomes a planet killer.

There is 4 light years to accelerate.

 

Ponies have never engaged in open warfare against their own kind, they are not efficient at it.

But we are, and we are also inhuman about it, name an atrocity and it would be employed if it would give an advantage.

There is no situation where ponies would win, unless it is engineered to be such via a literary device.

 

Warfare is not about engaging the opposing force-strength as equals, it's about destroying it before it can do the same to you.

And if one controls the supreme high-ground; space, other is in no position to counter anything or even act.

 

Ask any military historian what happened to those holding the low ground with inferior weaponry and were forced to respond to threats against a numerically smaller opposition that had superior weaponry.

They all died.

[KakeiTheWolf 652]

A pillow?

 

Oh yeah. And I'm pretty sure she can stop my bullets when I got like twenty rounds here. I'm the invading soldier, hence of course I got to carry a whole shit of guns and bullets, right?

 

But if you want to make the ponies as the God-Sue species, I understand

 

And humans wouldn't be for magically coming up with a way to traverse dimensions?

[Krystal 1,468]

Well I made this picture a while back and have been waiting for a chance to post itSo anyway I'm not so sure who would win. Humans have thousands of years of battle expirence under our belt not to mention the greatest tools of war ever; but on the other hand the ponies have magic. Although thats only one third of the ponies, so that instantly cuts the amount of ponies able to fight off the humans by one third. Also I'm not so sure all unicorns have strong enough magic to lift tanks and stop bullets and missles in their tracks. Overall I think the humans would win if it was a supprise attack but if the ponies had about a week to prepare for the invasion then I would put my money on them.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Krystal

[Starshine 16,330]

And humans wouldn't be for magically coming up with a way to traverse dimensions?

 

Oh sure. When the thread starter never implied anything that the humans will come to Equestria via a 'magical' portal

 

As I said earlier, the ponies are way too peaceful and passive. Even against the "pathetic-excuse-of-an-invasion" from changeling, they were all defeated on a whim. Against the human soldiers who literally drink violence everyday, the ponies surely stand victorious, they got magical princess!

 

/meh

[Akemi Homura 7,680]

Motivation C: For the Hell of it

 

Seriously?

You wouldn't rather invade Zaire or North Korea?

You want to invade a merry land of candy-colored ponies?

Are you like a sadist or something?

 

That reminds me of a game I used to play, Unreal. An aggressive and highly technologically advanced reptile species known as the Skaarj invaded a humble planet known as Na Pali, whose inhabitants are called the "Nali", a peaceful race of 4-armed humanoids. As such they're wholly unaware of things like weapons or "power ups", and definitely not used to warfare. The Nali are much like ponies, using "magic" to go about their lives, but otherwise their main occupations are considered primitive in our eyes (mostly farming and fishing).

 

So, as such, the Skaarj invade their humble planet and commit genocide on the Nali, being the sadistic freaks they are, and forcing survivors them to work in Tarydium (a powerful resource in the game) mines found on the planet.

 

 

...

 

 

What, they couldn't have just invaded some other race with tarydium?

[The Awesome One 1,314]

Humans could just built a crazy large Nuke and drop it over Canterlot. I don't think force-fields can stop an explosion like that.

[NavelColt 22,875]

Outside unicorns' magic, I don't see a lot of ways the ponies can fight against severe weapons like assault rifles, tanks, etc. So to me the real argument comes down to what extent of magic and of what types can and will be used against the invading humans.