Definition of Mary Sue

[Starshine 16,330]

What is the real definition of Mary sue?

How the hell do you recognize one?

What's your opinion about Mary Sue OC?

 

We all know this word. You can easily find this magic words in some fanfics, roleplays, fan made characters, tabletop games, or whatever else. Lots of people seemed to be throwing it around and around with blatant disregard about its true meaning. The more fanmade materials this fandom creates, the more ambiguous the term become.

Heck, some even call any characters s/he doesn't like as Mary Sue

 

So what do you say about it?

 

Funmode: create the worst Mary Sue you can get in less than five minutes. Post the resulting horror in a spoiler.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Star Weaver

[Dusty Soul 2,611]

A Mary Sue is any character that truly has little to no flaws. He/she is perfect in every way. My opinion on Mary Sue OCs... I don't like them.

[~Lawful Jordo~ 2,064]

A Mary sue is a character who is either vastly overpowered, or a character that has no flaws. Basically a perfect character in every way.

 

Personally I hate Mary sue type characters in every form.

[Retro*Derpy 3,078]

Like stated above, Mary Sue is a character that has no flaws what so ever, that she is offend hated by other characters in the story for being so.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Bobthecableman

[Starshine 16,330]

A Mary Sue is any character that truly has little to no flaws. He/she is perfect in every way. My opinion on Mary Sue OCs... I don't like them.

A Mary sue is a character who is either vastly overpowered, or a character that has no flaws. Basically a perfect character in every way. Personally I hate Mary sue type characters in every form.

Fun fact: you can create a character that horrible in every way, and still a Mary Sue :V

 

A character that is so miserable and unfortunate, abused in every way imaginable by the worlds, then all the canon characters loved him/her/it, when normally they would run screaming in terror

 

Yeah, this kind of shit exist

[Viscra Maelstrom 3,718]

this page might be of interest to read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

basically though, a mary sue is a character who is literally flawless in a lot or every way possible. like s/he is vastly overpowered in the fiction s/he is in, such as not able to die no matter WHAT happens because s/he can survive it through some superficial manner, or has the perfect body, the perfect manners, and is loved by everyone of the opposite sex no matter what s/he does.

 

basically a character that has characteristics which makes s/he invincible no matter what, or always gaining the upper hand no matter whatever happens to him/her because of some superficial manners that makes little to no sense at all.

[Starshine 16,330]

this page might be of interest to read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

basically though, a mary sue is a character who is literally flawless in a lot or every way possible. like s/he is vastly overpowered in the fiction s/he is in, such as not able to die no matter WHAT happens because s/he can survive it through some superficial manner, or has the perfect body, the perfect manners, and is loved by everyone of the opposite sex no matter what s/he does.

 

basically a character that has characteristics which makes s/he invincible no matter what, or always gaining the upper hand no matter whatever happens to him/her because of some superficial manners that makes little to no sense at all.

 

Yeah, I already read that page, but a discussion on how this site views the Sues would be interesting

 

Putting the powers aside, when a characters is loved unconditionally by everyone (or at least canon protagonists), is it a Mary Sue?

[Titan Rising 2,156]

Hmm I like the Mary Sues I aspire to be one one day... Well the guy version of one because it sounds like a girl. I don't know why anyone would hate Mary Sue

[Starshine 16,330]

Well the guy version of one because it sounds like a girl.

The boy version is either Marty Stu, Larry Stu, Gary Sue, or Edward Cullen

 

I don't know why anyone would hate Mary Sue

Because overall they have no function in the universe other than being 'good and adored by everyone who is not a villain', and most of the time they have no personality whatsoever. Most of the time the 'admirers' are the one who do the talking around the Mary Sue

 

And reading a noticeably bad Mary Sue fiction can ruin your appetite for hours

Edited September 22, 2012 by Star Weaver

[Titan Rising 2,156]

Because overall they have no function in the universe other than being 'good and adored by everyone who is not a villain', and most of the time they have no personality whatsoever. Most of the time the 'admirers' are the one who do the talking around the Mary Sue

 

And reading a noticeably bad Mary Sue fiction can ruin your appetite for hours

 

If they don't do anything then why would they be adored by everyone lol? I don't really rp or other stuff and make characters as Mary Sue's but what you guys are describing as one sounds like Goku or Naruto or Luffy and I dunno why anyone would hate any of them

Edited September 22, 2012 by Hollowshield

[Sky Blaze 28]

 

 

If they don't do anything then why would they be adored by everyone lol? I don't really rp or other stuff and make characters as Mary Sue's but what you guys are describing as one sounds like Goku or Naruto or Luffy and I dunno why anyone would hate any of them

 

Well, some canon characters are (what I like to call) Gary Stus. My definition of Mary/Gary Sue/Stu is a character that is perfect in every way, and made the way they are just because the author wanted them to be that way.

 

Mary Sue = No character developmont

[Starshine 16,330]

If they don't do anything then why would they be adored by everyone lol?

That's the magic of Mary Sue

Sometimes they don't have to do anything, all they have to do is to be there and suddenly fanclubs and screaming tween girls everywhere

 

I don't really rp or other stuff and make characters as Mary Sue's but what you guys are describing as one sounds like Goku or Naruto or Luffy and I dunno why anyone would hate any of them

Oh well, it's rather hard to describe these monsters if you never read any fanfictions or fanmade materials

 

Goku/Naruto/Luffy can be said as a mary sue, but their strength is on the level one might say as 'in-universe'

 

Mary Sue characters can be something so mind-numbingly impossible canon-wise, only given flesh after the author butchered the existing lore. Half-saiyan-half namek, devil fruit user that can swim, Shinobi that uses the power of love, or an incarnate of a canon character's dark side.

But it is also possible for a normal weak civilian to be Mary Sue (suddenly everyone works together to see her smile, disregarding the burning earth around them)

[Clarity 3,094]

It might not sound fair, but, I usually think Alicorn OCs are Mary-Sues in general because they have more power than all the other races. Cadence is an example.

 

What I also consider Mary-Sues, are characters who have too many powers, even if they have personality flaws. Twi has a lot of magic and can even conjure wings, but at least she has a limit. Unlike Rainbow Dash. Not only strong, also pretty much the fastest flier in Equestria, and can conjure tornados...etc.

 

Funmode:

Super Awesome Flare is an alicorn who is super strong and everypony likes her! She's always kind and patient with everyone even if they hate her or say mean things about her because she's also the Element of Harmony itself! She can shoot really powerful lazer beams at opponents and is very brave!

[MiStErUnMeRry 328]

There a few complicated laws to what counts as a Mary Sue. The most notable ones are those that are already widely known such as being the centre of attention constantly, having multiple over powered traits and being liked despite what personality they may or may not have, a classic sign of Mary sue is a man/female that gets all the opposite sex attention and still manages to be the main centre of everything despite the character or player themselves possessing nothing that make said character worthy of this role. I think that most RP Mary sues are normally ego stroking tools that attempt to get everyone in the act, forcing others to be nothing more than stage props in giving this one person this perfect world.

 

 

 

If he liked Rainbow dash; For some reason rainbow dash would be madly in love with him, he'll be a leader of something most likely and normally the highest authority or just under it(that or free ultra hardcore outlaw that is like...a super duper sword master and is never caught or get his men killed despite poor tactics) with little actual restrictions placed, even if those lack of restriction break sensibilities or cannon lore/functionality. They rarely are capable of accepting bad things happening to them, in fact anything that just so much as nudges a living piece of furniture-other role player-in their perfect universe out of place normally send them into aggressive spirals or running away(quitting) because of this, villains or even outside forces that could debatably be considered more heroic than him/her or a simple victim never succeed and if they do manage to make an impact the great main mary sue hero will somehow be loved and admired like a patron saint for tearing that guys skull off while supposedly being the hero of the scene. In short, these mary sue normally suffer no consequence for their flaws but will allow small issues or little misadventures to take place if it keeps him interested and he can still have it all work out in the end. There is also the anti-sue. This is a character that manifest the need for attention not by adoration but for sympathy. These are like those noob character that suddenly break down for no reason and cry about getting raped just to get a scene for themselves or complain about their parents dying in fire like the billions of other orphan OC. This guy will run into tragedy no matter what...he walks down the street, gets raped. He asks for help, gets mutilated, he get poisoned and neglected while in hospital.

 

 

 

They tend to have grim stories and constantly scream for attention, feeling sorry for themselves and in pretty direct terms scream at other players or the audience "Woe is me. Weep for me, love me for am but a victim. The never ending victim" in some cases though, anti-sues can be created out of pure fear to be a Mary sue and vice versa so not everyone who makes these are as defias as the normal breed. But what really makes an OC Mary sue is more or less bad execution.

 

 

There are no bad ideas, just bad execution. You could be a super powerful demon warrior that sadistic. But you have to tread carefully. That the issues, most mary sue/anti-sue are made by over ambition of people still exploring their writing potential or more into feeding their ego and getting noticed than making a good story. Lets take a good mary sue:

 

The Doctor(doctor who) -Super intelligent. -Never ending life-or ultra long long at least-

 

-Somehow manage to tackle aliens and monster despite never using weapons.

 

-always holds the moral high ground(majority at least and thus elevating himself as hero)

 

-always has a chick by his arm that is young and pretty, admiration and love is typical.

 

-has powers to literally tear time and mess with the rules of reality to an extent.

 

-Also charismatic and pretty.

 

But here the thing: These issues are fixed by the fact that his personality bars him from abusing these traits, he doesn't use his hero status to get admiration and is more at peace just knowing people are safe. Despite solving the issue there is always some sort of backlash to it and he normally can't save everyone or get to his goal 100% like he wants to and they made it clear this effects him. They put later restrictions on his time travel and even shown that it can fail. His attempt to defeat daleks failed as they came back full force later on. His rival-the master-has totally bought him down to pathetic and harmless in stature in the past and he has lost those who trusted him most.

 

 

He stood by and ignored slave work at one point and never gave it a second thought to much later. The fact he also never uses weapons or avoids directly hurting/killing people has directly crippled alot of his powers, meaning he can only fight with none conventional means. all the doctors victories are small steps, he rarely wins for sure and as such despite the massive accomplishment he makes, he never manages to finally draw the curtain on the scenario and most of the time the sheets he has to draw are those over the coffins of the ones he loves or his hope. the final note is that the doctor stance also explains his genius to an extent as well-born in advanced society, very old but not physically degraded(explained via restoration routines and travelling the very fabrics of reality) sometimes it all comes down to just adequately explaining their powers and how they tie into each other.

 

 

You'd have a hard time saying you are a master mage and a ninja at age 21. So, yes. The doctor. Alien time lord, ender of war, destroyer of a race and immortal(mostly) genius. That the essence of a Mary sue but his development and his writing as well as the writing of the world that he is in makes it all stand up. I think that Mary sues are more of a abbreviation of general bad design approach and treatments of the scenes/development all around or people getting too big for their boots rather than terrible ideas overall. Although there are Mary sues generated by personality-rampant emotions, self indulgence-I don't believe these are the norm at least in actual media/writing but in RP it is much more common.

Edited March 27, 2014 by MiStErUnMeRry

[Starshine 16,330]

 

 

There a few complicated laws to what counts as a Mary Sue. The most notable ones are those that are already widely known such as being the centre of attention constantly, having multiple over powered traits and being liked despite what personality they may or may not have, a classic sign of Mary sue is a man/female that gets all the opposite sex attention and still manages to be the main centre of everything despite the character or player themselves possessing nothing that make said character worthy of this role. I think that most RP Mary sues are normally ego stroking tools that attempt to get everyone in the act, forcing others to be nothing more than act as stage props in giving this one person this perfect world.

 

If he liked Rainbow dash; For some reason rainbow dash would be madly in love with him, he'll be a leader of something most likely and normally the highest authority or just under it(that or free ultra hardcore outlaw that is like...a super duper sword master and is never caught or get his men killed despite poor tactics) with little actual restrictions placed, even if those lack of restriction break sensibilities or cannon lore/functionality. They rarely are capable of accepting bad things happening to them, in fact anything that just so much as nudges a living piece of furniture-other role player-in their perfect universe out of place normally send them into aggressive spirals or running away(quitting) because of this, villains or even outside forces that could debatably be considered more heroic than him/her or a simple victim never succeed and if they do manage to make an impact the great main mary sue hero will somehow be loved and admired like a patron saint for tearing that guys skull off while supposedly being the hero of the scene.

 

In short, these mary sue normally suffer no consequence for their flaws but will allow small issues or little misadventures to take place if it keeps him interested and he can still have it all work out in the end.

 

There is also the anti-sue. This is a character that manifest the need for attention not by adoration but for sympathy. These are like those noob character that suddenly break down for no reason and cry about getting raped just to get a scene for themselves or complain about their parents dying in fire like the billions of other orphan OC. This guy will run into tragedy no matter what...he walks down the street, gets raped. He asks for help, gets mutilated, he get poisoned and neglected while in hospital.

 

They tend to have grim stories and constantly scream for attention, feeling sorry for themselves and in pretty direct terms scream at other players or the audience "Woe is me. Weep for me, love me for am but a victim. The never ending victim" in some cases though, anti-sues can be created out of pure fear to be a Mary sue and vice versa so no everyone who makes these are as defias as the normal breed.

 

But what really makes an OC Mary sue is more or less bad execution. There are no bad ideas, just bad execution. You could be a super powerful demon warrior that sadistic. But you have to tread carefully. That the issues, most mary sue/anti-sue are made by over ambition of people still exploring their writing potential or more into feeding their ego and getting noticed than making a good story.

 

Lets take a good mary sue: The Doctor(doctor who)

 

-Super intelligent.

 

-Never ending life-or ultra long long at least-

 

-Somehow manage to tackle aliens and monster despite never using weapons.

 

-always holds the moral high ground(majority at least and thus elevating himself as hero)

 

-always has a chick by his arm that is young and pretty, admiration and love is typical.

 

-has powers to literally tear time and mess with the rules of reality to an extent.

 

-Also charismatic and pretty.

 

But here the thing.

 

These issues are fixed by the fact that his personality bars him from abusing these traits, he doesn't use his hero status to get admiration and is more at peace just knowing people are safe.

 

Despite solving the issue there is always some sort of backlash to it and he normally can't save everyone or get to his goal 100% like he wants to and they made it clear this effects him.

 

They put latter restriction on his time travel and even shown that it can fail.

 

His attempt to defeat daleks failed as they came back full force later on.

 

His rival-the master-has totally bought him down to pathetic and defenseless in stature in the past and he has lost those who trust him most.

 

He stood by and ignored slave work at one point and never gave it a second thought to much later.

 

The fact he also never uses weapons or avoids directly hurting/killing people has directly crippled alot of his powers, meaning he can only fight with none conventional means.

 

all the doctors victories are small steps, he rarely wins for sure and as such despite the massive accomplishment he makes, he never manages to finally draw the curtain on the scenario and most of the time the sheets he has draw are those over the coffins of the ones he loves or his hope.

 

the final note is that the doctor stance also explains his genius to an extent as well-born in advanced society, very old but not physically degraded(explained via restoration routines and travelling the very fabrics of reality) sometimes it all comes down to just adequately explaining their powers and how they tie into each other. You'd have a hard time saying you are a master mage and a ninja at age 21.

 

So, yes. The doctor. Alien time lord, ender of war, destroyer of a race and immortal(mostly) genius. That the essence of a Mary sue but his development and his writing as well as the writing of the world that he is in makes it all stand up.

 

I think that Mary sues are more of a abbreviation of general bad design approach and treatments of the scenes/development all around or people getting too big for their boots rather than terrible ideas overall. Although there are Mary sues generated by personality-rampant emotions, self indulgence-I don't believe these are the norm at least in actual media/writing but in RP it is much more common.

 

 

 

Very good analysis you got there, sir.

 

So everything sums up on how well the author executes his story? It doesn't really matter how powerful the character is, it's all depends on how you write the tale

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong :x

Edited September 22, 2012 by Star Weaver

[ceresbane 61]

http://www.springhol...ing/marysue.htmaaaaaaaand no one here actually uses legitimate sources that are actually usable in an academic essay or PHD (if it was about creative writing theory)

 

the litmus test people!

 

It has the definition and measures the mary sueness of a character. Although a guideline it is one of the best means of measuring a mary sue AND learning wtf a mary sue is.

 

definitely better than these interpretations made by people who's only heard it like an internet based Chinese whispers

Edited September 22, 2012 by ceresbane

[MiStErUnMeRry 328]

Very good analysis you got there, sir.

 

So everything sums up on how well the author executes his story? It doesn't really matter how powerful the character is, it's all depends on how you write the tale

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong :x

 

Yes. That is how everything works. If someone told you "hey. Bro. I'm going to make two royal rulers who have non inside opposition that can control the very skies themselves and is genetically gifted with all the best traits their race has to offer" you would tell him to get out. But..celestia and luna are written in a way that you don't even think about this as a over powered aspect. They have special imitations, they have personalities and perhaps even at points their lack of screen time helps us not feel overwhelmed. My memory is shady but people did hint that cadence is and was going to be pretty OP before she got released, however her episode was sooo good that people didn't even think about that when it came up.

 

A good story is a good story, even if it about a ultra strong god man that bends iron and wrestle mountain sized dragons to death with his bare hands.

 

 

also thank you for the compliment.

Edited September 22, 2012 by MiStErUnMeRry

[Starshine 16,330]

http://www.springhol...ing/marysue.htm

 

 

aaaaaaaand no one here actually uses legitimate sources that are actually usable in an academic essay or PHD (if it was about creative writing theory)

 

the litmus test people!

 

It has the definition and measures the mary sueness of a character. Although a guideline it is one of the best means of measuring a mary sue AND learning wtf a mary sue is.

 

definitely better than these interpretations made by people who's only heard it like an internet based Chinese whispers

 

Everything on the internet is very subjective. I presume you don't have any opinion about Mary Sues and their traits?

 

Yes. That is how everything works. If someone told you "hey. Bro. I'm going to make two royal rulers who have non inside opposition that can control the very skies themselves and is genetically gifted with all the best traits their race has to offer" you would tell him to get out. But..celestia and luna are written in a way that you don't even think about this as a over powered aspect. They have special imitations, they have personalities and perhaps even at points their lack of screen time helps us not feel overwhelmed. My memory is shady but people did hint that cadence is pretty Op before she got released, however her episode was sooo good that people didn't even think about that when it came up.

 

Hoho I remember that case about Cadence, everyone is screaming about how hasbro will ruin MLP by pulling it back to toy-selling show with various pink princesses and stuff and how Cadence is every little girls' fantasies and their self-insert.

 

Then the finale hit the screen, almost everyone loves Cadence.

 

A good story is a good story, even if it about a ultra strong god man that bends iron and wrestle mountain sized dragons to death with his bare hands.

 

+1

[Sepia-chan 495]

A Mary Sue is, more often than not, an author insertion character that is perfect in every way, and has no enemies.(Apart from the Big Bad or the Antagonist, of course.) Dark and Troubled Past optional.

Edited September 23, 2012 by Dusk Eninama Ace Attorney

[MVC NVMXD JVRXD 2,406]

This picture is always related.

A Mary Sue, to me, is a character that is too "perfect" in a sense, whether it be the guy who has a completely "pity party" life that makes everyone like him, or the character who has everything perfect, like in that picture. A good example, for me, is this one crime show, Rizzoli and Isles. In almost EVERY FUCKING EPISODE, the main characters go into a near death situation, whether it be a kidnapping or a shootout, almost die, but then go home perfectly ok, and act life nothing happened. Because nothing bad can happen to them.

:|

Edited September 23, 2012 by Djenty

[Flicker 141]

It might not sound fair, but, I usually think Alicorn OCs are Mary-Sues in general because they have more power than all the other races. Cadence is an example.

 

What I also consider Mary-Sues, are characters who have too many powers, even if they have personality flaws. Twi has a lot of magic and can even conjure wings, but at least she has a limit. Unlike Rainbow Dash. Not only strong, also pretty much the fastest flier in Equestria, and can conjure tornados...etc.

 

 

Well, for the record it took all the pegasi to conjure the tornado, although I felt kind of miffed that Rainbow Dash did a third Sonic Rainboom because she can do it on command, which just cheapens it.

Also, while I have an alicorn OC, (and yes, I'm just looking for opinions and advice) she never had any powers outside of flying. Her horn was used as a weapon and was broken while she was on a rampage while she was Discorded. So she's basically a big pegasus. While she's technically half a year older than Celestia, she's far from being the wiser. In fact she's just plain reckless.

[FoxyCryptid 4,327]

Fun fact: you can create a character that horrible in every way, and still a Mary Sue :V

 

A character that is so miserable and unfortunate, abused in every way imaginable by the worlds, then all the canon characters loved him/her/it, when normally they would run screaming in terror

 

 

That's what we on TvTropes call an "anti-sue", a character that goes too far towards the other extreme.

 

I think it's a character that's too perfect and/or powerful for the world they exist in. For example, Kenshin is fine is his world where there's god-like swordsmen everywhere, but if you were to put him in something like Highlander where the swordplay is more realistic(absurdly sharp blades aside) he would be horrendously over-powered.

 

 

Amanda was Shining Armors first love, then when Cadance dies he runs back into her hooves like nothing ever happened even though he said he didn't love her anymore, but that changed in his grief and even though she almost gets him killed all the time she's still perfect, oh and she a theif that once treid to trade his life for her's an--

 

*beat* wait, that sounds familler.

 

Edited September 23, 2012 by Shoboni

[Cocodrillo 1,565]

Yeah, it´s been said several times - a perfect one, no flaws. People like to mask their Mary Sues with ONE "dramatic" point (like depression, dead parents and stuff like this) - and that´s the thing I hate the most about them.

 

 

Mary Sue: Very smart and beautiful creature, all the people want to date her but she/loves a boy/girl that´s another Mary Sue but the shy one (that´s the dramatic point I was talking about). Also very athletic, brave, loyal, talented in all the art and non-art cases, strong and powerful - can use all the known fight techniques + all the secret ones + made several new. She/he is a prince/princess, but she/he don´t know yet because her/his parents are dead or alive but she/he was adopted. The whole story is about her/him fighting the dark side with his not-so-mary-suish best friend/s and her/his crush. There must be at least one moment when she/he risks her/his life for her/his crush and one when she/he stands for her/his friend/s. Also, our Mary Sue/Gary Stu has to end up as a winner, the dark side is banished, she/he ends up as a Queen/King of the World, after a cute scene with her/his crush they´ll get married and have a bunch of Mary Sues. The not-so-perfect-friend gets laid too, probably with not-so-perfect-friend of Mary Sue´s Crush.

 

[Starshine 16,330]

This picture is always related.

What the hell is that monstrosity

 

With a terrible writing, even the character on the left can be a mary sue (albeit a more subtle one

 

Well, for the record it took all the pegasi to conjure the tornado

I believe Clarity was talking about Rainbow Dash's tornado on the parasprite episode, where she was almost cut to death by Pinkie Pie's cymbal

[Mersander 55]

A mary sue is an OC that is perfect in every way possible. You can easilly point them out by their "perfect" looks, and they just never seem to get upset during ANY situation. They almost always have a bad and terrible backround but magically became a great person. Mary sues are kind of cliche...