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A Plea For Sanity and Civility from Bronies on the Left and the Right


Batbrony

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I've been hesitant to post this as a topic, but considering my love for this fandom and this forum community, I've become compelled to say what I have to say here.  So here it goes:

 

Since election season, I've either posted in or browsed through a number of political threads on these forums, and I must say, compared to most forums, the debates that go on in these threads are quite civil for the most part.  That said, however, I have still come across a large multitude of posts from members that are less than civil, especially, but not limited to, when gay marriage gets brought up.  Terms start getting thrown around such as "religious nuts," "bigots," "hateful," "right-wing nut-jobs," "delusional," "racist," "sexist," "homophobe," etc.  This is not to say that conservative bronies don't get uncivil either; I've seen them throwing around language as well such as "left-wing nut jobs," "liberal whackos," "lemmings," "socialist pigs," etc.  I myself at times have probably used stronger language than I would have liked.  However, and please trust me when I say that I am being completely impartial in what I am about to say, I do not see conservative bronies being quite as loose with uncivil language as liberal bronies are, and I think it's for two big reasons: (1) there are not as many conservative bronies, and (2) conservative bronies have to be more careful with our language in a predominantly liberal setting if we want to be taken seriously at all (the same increasingly applies to public debate in this country in general).  That said, this is still a problem that I think both sides of the aisle among bronies on this forum need to address.

 

So I suppose you're all wondering by now (1) what do I want, and (2) why do I want it.  It's quite simple really.  All I'm asking is that when engaging in political debate on these forums, especially with fellow bronies, please make a commitment to be as civil as possible.  Why?  Well, first of all, strong terms such as "bigot" or "right/left-wing nutjob" are deeply hurtful terms, and one reason I think they get thrown around quite easily are because most people, when they post responses with such terms, believe they are simply referring to some third party in a news article, for example; the problem with this is that the responses I see frequently go along the lines of "I'm so sick of these religious nuts," and I can't see how that is limited to one small group of people.  Does "religious nuts" refer to all religions?  Does it refer to all Christians?  It makes me feel, and probably a lot of other conservative or religious bronies out there, as though I'm included in this category of "religious nuts" just because I happen to be religious.  Which leads me to my second point.

 

Are we truly being bronies when we label entire groups of people that include tens of millions of people as "bigots" or "socialist pigs" or "religious nuts"?  Is this language truly representative of bronydom, a fandom that prides itself on being one of love and tolerance?  What is loving or tolerating about calling somepony a bigot?  That is a deeply hurtful word, and also, quite frankly, such an extreme word as to be unintelligent to use in public debate.  It is a label that suggests one shouldn't take what this so-called "bigot" has to say seriously, simply because, he's apparently a bigot.  But shouldn't a fandom built on the concept of "love and tolerance" be ready and willing at all times to hear and civilly debate any and all opinions in a calm, peaceful, rational, and civil manner?  I think it should, and that it is our obligation and duty as bronies to do so.  We are still much better than many other fandoms or most sites on the Internet in general, but we can still improve, whether liberal or conservative, we can do better!!!  And we should do better!!!  We should be a beacon of love, civility, rationality, and peaceful public debate, friendship, and fellowship between bronies from every side of the political aisle, of all shapes and sizes, and for the most part we already are.  But as I said, we can do better, and if we do so, then we shall truly be able to rationally and civilly debate each other even better than we do now, and thereby come to understand better each others views!!!

 

Please don't think that I'm trying to infringe on freedom of speech; I certainly can't force any of you to be more civil in your language, nor would I ever try to.  Also, please don't suggest that if I don't like what I'm seeing, I should simply not post or not view political threads; being scared into submission and silence is no solution, especially not in a democratic society, and certainly not one that any brony should have to accept.  What I can do, and am doing, however, is encourage my fellow bronies to exercise your freedom of speech in the smartest, most intelligent, and civil manner possible. I'm not doing this for my feelings, or for conservative bronies' feelings; I'm doing this for our community and our fandom as a whole!  I love this fandom so much and I want to see it be the best it can be!!!  Please everypony, let there be true love and tolerance between each and everypony on this forum, whether conservative or liberal; let us make love and tolerance into a reality, at least in our little corner of the Internet, especially at a time when so many communities across the world are extremely divided politically, religiously, socially, racially, etc.  I've met so many great liberals and conservatives in my time on these forums already, people who are always civil to others, and again, I am no paradigm, for I am but a sinner, and so am certain that I have posted at some point something I regret posting; but let us all challenge ourselves to be the best we can be, for if we all strive to do so, then by golly we might just be able to make these forums an even better place than they already are.

 

Well, those are my thoughts; know that they were not easy by any means to put down into writing.  To Feld0 and the entire moderating team, I want you to know that this is not a critique of your moderating on these forums; I am not calling for penalizing those who choose to use the language that I have referred to, for that would be backseat moderating.  You have done a wonderful job putting these forums together Feld0, and continue to do an outstanding job running and moderating them with your amazing team of moderators!!!  I am simply requesting that everypony make the conscious and rational choice to make a commitment to treat each other, no matter how different he/she may be, as civilly as possible.  Please, by all means, feel free to share your thoughts below.

 

Moderators, if this would be more appropriate as a blog topic, please let me know, because this is unlike any thread I've ever created, and I don't usually make that many threads even.

 

Finally, I want each and everypony on these forums to know that, no matter how different your views are from my own personal beliefs, I love each and every one of you, I will make as great a commitment as I can to treat you all civilly and with the respect you deserve, if I ever fail to do so please take me to task for it, and I hope that at some point we all may commit to do the same.  Love and tolerate EVERYONE, everypony!!!!!!!!!  :)

Edited by Batbrony
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As a libertarian I don't consider myself to be firmly entrenched in either the right or the left but can still get a tad carried away myself though when I see face palm worthy stupidity it can be hard not to though I try to keep my rage directed toward the criminal bankers who had hijacked the system. Overall this is one of the most civil forums I have ever been on, with the exception of a couple of people I won't mention I like most of the people here and the fandom in general is the nicest I have seen since I could remember. But a little more sanity and self improvement of course is always a good thing to strive for.

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I didn't even know there were such things as Conservative Bronies. <_<

You learn something new everyday.

 

Anyway, I'm willing to love and tolerate and treat people the way i want to be treated. All I ask is that they do the same.

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Like EarthbendingProdigy, I am a libertarian as well. I don't really associate myself with modern day " conservatism " or " liberalism " so I'm usually placed in the middle by them for my views. Now I personally love engaging in political and economical discussion. I see it as a learning experience and it helps broaden self-principals. But I have been on forums before where debates I engage in are manipulated and turned into a flamefest, most notably Evolutionists vs. Creationists, and it ruined the civil debate.

 

When I attack though, it's usually at the principals of people and their actions rather then the personal individual. I never intend to insult someone and create an attack on the man because it's irrelevant to the discussion and creates sidetracks that lead to devastation of the topic. I tolerate all people regardless of their principals. So I completely agree with OP's statements.

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I didn't even know there were such things as Conservative Bronies. <_<

You learn something new everyday.

 

Anyway, I'm willing to love and tolerate and treat people the way i want to be treated. All I ask is that they do the same.

 

Oh yes, there are quite a few of us on the forums, although I may be mistaking some libertarian bronies as conservative and lumping them in with our number.  My main point was that there are bronies from all over the political, religious, and social spectrum.

 

Oh, and thank you for basically saying in 26 words what it took me hundreds to say!  Condensing my thoughts has never been my strong suit!!!  :lol:

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Well, the elections sort of breezed over me as I live in England, but I get where you are going.

 

I find it silly that we have the motto: "Love and Tolerate", only to completely go against that and bicker amongst ourselves. We all dream of a world holding hands in rainbows and multi-culture, but that involves all of us putting the effort in.

 

I am a religious brony myself, and I have no quarrel with atheists. I have many atheists friends who don't talk about religion. However, I hope that my comment shows I have some rational thought to show I am not crazy.

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Oh yes, there are quite a few of us on the forums, although I may be mistaking some libertarian bronies as conservative and lumping them in with our number.  My main point was that there are bronies from all over the political, religious, and social spectrum.

 

Oh, and thank you for basically saying in 26 words what it took me hundreds to say!  Condensing my thoughts has never been my strong suit!!!  :lol:

 

To be fair libertarians do have some things in common with conservatives as well as liberals so I have been accused of being both a right wing nutjob and a left wing nutjob depending on what the subject is or who or what I am criticizing. I am strongly opposed to abortion for example because I see it as an act of senseless violence I am just as strongly opposed to pre emptive war, torture and police brutality for the same exact reason though some libertarians are pro choice because they view abortion as a privacy issue. It is possible for someone to take views from seemingly contradictory ends of the political spectrum yet still believe in them for the same reasons.

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Like, as with most things, your post can be summed up in this wise saying. "A spoonful of honey attracts more ants then a gallon of vinegar."

If you want to get your point across calling someone a "Nut job." Or anything like that will not only make them not listen to you but will make others not listen to you. In addition calling someone "Crazy." Will make them mad at you and cause them to return fire and degrade it from a peaceful debate into a Youtube Comment style argument.


So if you want people to hear what you have to say, always be nice about it and remember to be the better man and not degrade yourself into petty insults no matter what they call you. 

 

And if you are really into debating then I highly recommend you read the book, "How to win Friends and Influence people." I really suggest anyone who wants to talk politics, religion, or anything, should read it.
 

(This comment is not directed at anyone in particular.)

Edited by Firelord Derpy
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I associate myself with neither party in politics  but I do love and tolerate all ponies and I treat everypony the same way i would like to be treated.  

Edited by angels_gal
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Meh.  This thread is well-meaning but largely unnecessary. I think.  This community is smart enough to realize that when the insults come out, the person using them has probably run out of logical arguments.  The mods leave the political/religious debates alone for the most part, because even when they get a little petty, they still remain interesting and on-topic.

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The narrower the mind, the broader the statements, as the saying goes. On the other hand, if you open your arms so wide as to embrace everything you'll snap your own spine. Neither those advocating an extreme nor those accepting all are probably thinking very much. See Reddit's /r/politics and /r/atheism for good examples.

I never appeal to bronies on the basis of their being a brony. Lots of people come to this fanbase for different reasons. Some of the first bronies only liked the show for its animation style and quality, not any of the messages. Instead I just try to treat them the way I would want to be treated and remind them to do the same. You can't win or lose arguments, only the people with whom you're engaged. And if you don't care about those people then your only motivation behind whatever you're advocating is your own vanity. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't seem as interested in rational discourse as they do in browbeating. Although I read through political and religious threads from time to time just out of curiosity I always abstain from posting because of that. I'm not going to put myself in a position where I might have to douse flames I never sought; that's the mods' jobs so to speak. Despite my silence in those threads I don't mind posting my personal viewpoints on anything as an aside in an appropriate post elsewhere. In my experience that draws much less heat.


That's all I have to say in regards to Batbrony's original post. Speaking just for myself, I'd like to throw out an invitation to anybody and everybody who ever has any concerns or questions with something I say. My intention is never to demean or denigrate anybody or their points of view, and I always try to word things as tactfully as possible, though I may not always succeed. Changing one word in a 100 word post can change the entire meaning of it for somebody, and sometimes I should have looked for a better synonym to what I decided upon. One recent incident is the reason I'm saying all this. I'm not going to throw out any names and as far as I'm concerned the matter is closed. Somebody read something I posted a couple days back and had a problem with it. In this case interpreting my meaning correctly but thinking it a terrible position to have. Why s/he didn't reply to me directly when announcing their misgivings, I don't know. All I can figure is it's because I seemed like a lunatic or somebody who would respond aggressively. That's not how I am. I want everybody to feel comfortable addressing me directly for any reason; I'm not saying you have to, just know that you can. You can either quote me in a thread or shoot me a message if you want to keep it on the DL. My only warning is that there might be a delay in getting back to somebody via PM as for some reason I'm pretty bad with that, but I'm working on it.

 

 

tl;dr version: Rai and Jiri at Lungha. Rai of Lawani. Lawani under two moons. Jiri of Umbaya. Umbaya of crossroads, at Lungha. Lungha, her sky gray.


 

Anyway, I'm willing to love and tolerate and treat people the way i want to be treated. All I ask is that they do the same.


That's a concise summation of my libertarian* perspectives.


* = No affiliation with the US Libertarian Party.
 
 

It is possible for someone to take views from seemingly contradictory ends of the political spectrum yet still believe in them for the same reasons.


e.g. Comrade-Dimitri-Hammer and myself, though neither of us have ever made it an issue.


And I have the same problem with being lumped in with "liberals" and "conservatives" depending on the topic du jour. Some also call me a "typical Christian bigot" because I'm staunchly opposed to abortion while others erroneously assume I'm a "Progressive" atheist because I can have a pleasant conversation with a transsexual rather than assembling a lynch mob. At times it's frustrating; at times it's amusing.

I will say there's one thing libertarians have going for them more so than anyone else: although we're often the least understood because of how diverse, divided, and neutral we can be, we have more opportunities for fun and political jokes than the others.

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When come to Politics I'm in the proud party of I-Don't-Give-Two-Craps, and by God, it keeps me a sane and happy man. I learned long ago to just stay out of it.

 

Plus, my view points go somewhere in the middle of the scale, so if I did vote it would be like "let's just flip a coin".  

Edited by Shoboni
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And I have the same problem with being lumped in with "liberals" and "conservatives" depending on the topic du jour.

 

Apologies to you and anypony else (cause there have been a couple others) who don't like people being lumped simply as conservative or liberal.  Of course I recognize that there's plenty of those who hold more middle-of-the-road decisions; I simply chose to refer to anypony as conservative/liberal for the sake of saving space and not having to waste time making a list of all the various positions, since my OP was long enough as it is.  But again, sorry if anypony was miffed in any way.  :)

Edited by Batbrony
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Apologies to you and anypony else (cause there have been a couple others) who don't like people being lumped simply as conservative or liberal.  Of course I recognize that there's plenty of those who hold more middle-of-the-road decisions; I simply chose to refer to anypony as conservative/liberal for the sake of saving space and not having to waste time making a list of all the various positions, since my OP was long enough as it is.  But again, sorry if anypony was miffed in any way.  :)

 

Doesn't bother me at all. I understand what you're trying to do and I sometimes call myself one or the other for simplicity's sake when a more precise description would be too tedious. For the most part I would even describe myself as being on the "conservative" side. The only time it seems to bug me is when people do that to describe my worldview rather than just political theory, but even then I mostly don't care.

Edited by Artemis
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So what are you saying exactly?  That the people trying to take away my freedom cause they don't trust me to be fair to black people aren't socialist pigs?

 

All I'm saying is that if we want to truly make progress in getting to know and understand each other, the best way to do so is to treat each other as civilly and friendly as possible; that's the only way that any debate ever gets resolved anyway, not by name calling.

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Politcally i am a Socialist. That dosesnt mean i am not willing to hear proposals from the Conservative side. But when I point out my political stance i am attacked and we lose focus on whatever the issue at hand was. I dont hate Conservatives in fact i agree with many Conservative ideas. I belive we need to reduce spending etc. But when Conservatives hear that i am a Socialist i am automatically irrelvant and nothing i say has any merit at all. I think that Conservatives have a distorted view of Socialism. It is not Communism its entirely different. I am willing to have intelligent conversations and i never throw names around because name calling is for 2nd graders. I do not stereotype people because of their political affiliation. If you belive that Liberals name call more than Conservatives do, i belive that Conservatives stereotype more. People seem to think i want the world to be this 1960's Soviet Utopia when i dont. If you hear me out ill hear you out.

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Politcally i am a Socialist. That dosesnt mean i am not willing to hear proposals from the Conservative side. But when I point out my political stance i am attacked and we lose focus on whatever the issue at hand was. I dont hate Conservatives in fact i agree with many Conservative ideas. I belive we need to reduce spending etc. But when Conservatives hear that i am a Socialist i am automatically irrelvant and nothing i say has any merit at all. I think that Conservatives have a distorted view of Socialism. It is not Communism its entirely different. I am willing to have intelligent conversations and i never throw names around because name calling is for 2nd graders. I do not stereotype people because of their political affiliation. If you belive that Liberals name call more than Conservatives do, i belive that Conservatives stereotype more. People seem to think i want the world to be this 1960's Soviet Utopia when i dont. If you hear me out ill hear you out.

 

Precisely...what I hate about the Conservative side is that they have this mindset that if they give their opinion the liberals will call them racist, bigoted, blah blah blah. Then they seem to ignore that when a liberal posts their view or (goddess forbid) that I like Obama, I am a socialist pig that comes from the blame America first crowd who wants to destroy some so-called American values simply because I want to give what should be pre-made rights to people who are held back.

 

Guess what Conservatives...you are just as guilty at the name calling as our side is. Your side is just as guilty as the other side at making personal interpretations and assumptions that might very well be wrong (gasp!)

 

Both sides need to get over it and learn how to debate without making attacks or getting beligerent

 

Also, as a fellow Socialist I will agree with the above comments

Edited by Cupcake Ice Cream
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  • 7 years later...

As a brony that's really into guns, im actually surprised that so many people on here are so conservative! Nonetheless I believe that this topic deserves more recognition. 

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The left and right are completely divided beyond repair at this point. The states themselves are near to this point as well. Why we are still called the "United States" is beyond me. I too am part of this, as I have very little common ground with the right on almost anything.

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Well, frankly, I think the whole concept that it's both the left and the right that are being divisive and not the center is clearly an attempt to gaslight everything the CENTER has done to divide everyone. It's their fault the left is demonized in the United States, it is their fault that the right has mobilized in such a radical direction, and it is their fault we have people like f***ing Joe Biden running for president. As far as I'm concerned, "sanity" and "unity" to me under most circumstances are just used as attempts for the center to try to rationalize their divisiveness.

 

I think the forming of this thread is misguided, poorly informed, and actually DIVISIVE. Good Day, and I certainly do NOT want to try to discuss this, as the center at this point is beyond logic and reason. I mean it has been since its gone the corrupt and the holier than thou route.

Edited by Le Angel Dust
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