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Is Discord actually Starswirl the Bearded?


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78 users have voted

  1. 1. Are Discord and Star Swirl the same person?

    • Yes
      28
    • No
      50


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Ok one of the main reasons everyone says Discord is Star Swirl is because Discord can time travel. Now when is Discord shown to time travel? If he ever does I can't find it, and if Discord can time travel so what? So can Twilight, and any other unicorn that is strong enough, and has access to the Canterlot Library. Now as far as Discord being Star Swirl, I've not decided about what side I stand on that, though I think this debunks the whole time travel stuff, atleast partly.

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There's pretty much nothing to suggest that Discord and Star Swirl are the same pony. Star Swirl was a remarkably powerful unicorn, Discord is a remarkably powerful magic user, and they both lived a long time ago.

 

Apart from that, there's pretty much nothing.

 

Back before Season 3 aired where it was confirmed that John deLancie was coming back to voice another character, and there was a rumor was that he wasn't voicing Discord, but rather Star Swirl the Bearded, and it would be confirmed that Star Swirl would become Discord. This was supposedly a leak by somebody who was involved in the episode in question (I think they were somebody who got their hands on the voice recordings from that episode, or overheard the voice acting as they were being recorded). Keep Calm and Flutter On had effectively disproved that.

 

It's an interesting headcanon and there's nothing to invalidate it, but there's absolutely nothing to back it up either.

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Ok one of the main reasons everyone says Discord is Star Swirl is because Discord can time travel.

I have not heard this justification whatsoever. No, the main reason that the Discord is Starswirl theory exists is:

 

A) Starswirl and Discord have both said to never have gained friends (until Fluttershy, that is).

B) Discord and Celestia have been hinted to have had some sort of history with Discord (his anger at her over any other pony, her insistence that there was good and potential in Discord)

C) Starswirl was said to have been a pony who reached the highest level of his studies.

D) With the Elements of Harmony channeling the spell to make a pony an alicorn there is no telling what would have happened to Discord casting the spell.

 

Therefore, it is possible (and even likely) that Discord is Starswirl who, without any friends to guide him, searched a little hard for power, gained infinite power, and had no idea what to do with it, leading to madness and an obsession with power. Especially if Celestia (who in the show represents order quite often) and him with a major conflict.

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I have not heard this justification whatsoever. No, the main reason that the Discord is Starswirl theory exists is:

 

A) Starswirl and Discord have both said to never have gained friends (until Fluttershy, that is).

B) Discord and Celestia have been hinted to have had some sort of history with Discord (his anger at her over any other pony, her insistence that there was good and potential in Discord)

C) Starswirl was said to have been a pony who reached the highest level of his studies.

D) With the Elements of Harmony channeling the spell to make a pony an alicorn there is no telling what would have happened to Discord casting the spell.

 

Therefore, it is possible (and even likely) that Discord is Starswirl who, without any friends to guide him, searched a little hard for power, gained infinite power, and had no idea what to do with it, leading to madness and an obsession with power. Especially if Celestia (who in the show represents order quite often) and him with a major conflict.

 

 

http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=91011

 

http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/my-little-pony-friendship-is-magic/answers/show/451986/what-think-theory-going-around-discord-may-fact-star-swirl-bearded

 

well here are two examples in which the time travel point is used, I'm sure that there are many more out there though, and I found then rather easily.

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@@Bronydash,

 

Ah. Well that may be, but that's not why I enjoy the theory, though it does represent destroying a natural law, definitely in Discord's style, and it's not the only point brought up. 

 

 

true the time travel point is the one that runes it the most for me, but like you said in Discord's style, so honestly Discord could be anything he wants...... including a carrot :)

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(edited)

Although I did weave a Discord-as-Starswirl into my worldbuilding blog, it was more an exercise to see if I could do it than it actually making sense. There's no evidence in either the show, the comics, or the official books to support the theory. And no evidence that Discord can time-travel, for that matter.

 

Heck, in my warped version Starswirl/Discord is Celestia & Luna's father, which gives you an idea of how badly twisted it had to be to get it to work.

Edited by Fhaolan
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There's no evidence in either the show, the comics, or the official books to support the theory

 

 A) Starswirl and Discord have both said to never have gained friends (until Fluttershy, that is).

B ) Discord and Celestia have been hinted to have had some sort of history with Discord (his anger at her over any other pony, her insistence that there was good and potential in Discord)

C) Starswirl was said to have been a pony who reached the highest level of his studies.

D) With the Elements of Harmony channeling the spell to make a pony an alicorn there is no telling what would have happened to Discord casting the spell.

 

So while not direct evidence, there are subtle points and hints that would make it make sense, especially with Starswirl as the student of Celestia who writhed under her control.

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I can actually see all of these relations between the two.

 

It'd serve as a nice twist to have in the already solid lore, because why did Celestia see good in a being of chaos? If he started already like that then why change him to good? It would be easier to just keep him in stone.

 

We really need a solid back-story episode about early Equestria and Celestia and Luna's interaction(s) with it. We might be able to see what happened with Discord and such.

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 A) Starswirl and Discord have both said to never have gained friends (until Fluttershy, that is).

B ) Discord and Celestia have been hinted to have had some sort of history with Discord (his anger at her over any other pony, her insistence that there was good and potential in Discord)

C) Starswirl was said to have been a pony who reached the highest level of his studies.

D) With the Elements of Harmony channeling the spell to make a pony an alicorn there is no telling what would have happened to Discord casting the spell.

 

So while not direct evidence, there are subtle points and hints that would make it make sense, especially with Starswirl as the student of Celestia who writhed under her control.

 

As you say, none of that is direct evidence.

 

And in fact, there's subtle hints that Starswirl on the whole predates Celestia and Luna. Being as he was the mentor/master of Clover the Clever when the unicorn tribe itself controlled the Sun and the Moon, not a pair of alicorns. The princesses hint that they knew him, but if all the hints and legends are true it kinda points to him already being around and legendary for his magical skill when they appear on the scene.

 

All we know about Starswirl are hints, innuendos, and legends. So while him being Celestia's student is thematically fitting, those same hints could be read to be having Celestia being *Starswirl's* student after Clover graduates and goes on to be advisor to Princess Platinum. ;)

 

I'm aware of at least one fanfiction where Starswirl does turn into Discord, and Princess Platinum was actually Celestia and Luna's elder sister. The younger princesses go alicorn at the same time Starswirl draconequeses (sp?), with Platinum being Blueblood's ancestor. That one was interesting to work through mentally.

 

Hopefully we'll get more history-stuff in Season 4. I'm looking forward to figuring out how it all fits with the info we have now. Luckily I've been at this kind of thing with other shows long enough that I don't hold fast to any headcannon anymore. ^_^

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I wouldn't say that he's Star Swirl. Because how would he be a unicorn if he's a draquonequus? On "Luna Eclipsed," Twilight said she was wearin the robes that Star Swirl the Bearded wore. Discord can't exactly.. wear clothes. ^_-

Also, Celestia and Star Swirl seemed to be old friends. Discord and Celestia had a very bad history together.

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@,

 

The suggestion is that he did not start out as Discord, but rather that he became him after some sort of error. Also note that Celestia and Starswirl presumably had a falling out of some sort, not to mention that he never had friends, which would preclude him and her being on the best of terms, particularly towards the end of his life.

 

@@Fhaolan,  

Is that in supplemental material or the episode? I don't quite recall anyone mentioning that he was the mentor of Clover the Clever, but I could just not remember. Also, I will point out that the Hearth's Warming Eve story is most likely legend and not an accurate representation of history. Then there's the subtle hints that ponies are immortal.

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http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=91011

 

http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/my-little-pony-friendship-is-magic/answers/show/451986/what-think-theory-going-around-discord-may-fact-star-swirl-bearded

 

well here are two examples in which the time travel point is used, I'm sure that there are many more out there though, and I found then rather easily.

Those are dreadful examples of evidence.  Not once in the show has Discord time traveled.  Somepony can say he time travels all they want, it will not magically become true.  And "they both have beards" proves nothing.  If you want legitimate research sources, here's a much better one:

http://mlp.wikia.com/wiki/Discord

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@,

 

The suggestion is that he did not start out as Discord, but rather that he became him after some sort of error. Also note that Celestia and Starswirl presumably had a falling out of some sort, not to mention that he never had friends, which would preclude him and her being on the best of terms, particularly towards the end of his life.

 

@@Fhaolan,  

Is that in supplemental material or the episode? I don't quite recall anyone mentioning that he was the mentor of Clover the Clever, but I could just not remember. Also, I will point out that the Hearth's Warming Eve story is most likely legend and not an accurate representation of history. Then there's the subtle hints that ponies are immortal.

 

Immortal ponies? Hasn't it been shown that Apple Jacks parent's are dead? Whats more is that Granny Smith herself implies death when she says that she might not get to attend another Apple Family Reunion. However Ponies are shown to be able to live for hundreds of years. As Twilight says that ponies in Ponyvile have wrapped up winter without magic for hundreds of years, and Granny Smith apparently founded Ponyvile.

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@@Bronydash

 

That's what I meant. Not immortal in that they never die. I think aging of ponies is based upon something more like emotion or how old they feel as opposed to, say, second to second age inducing. Which would also make sense since magic and whatnot.

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(edited)

@@Bronydash

 

That's what I meant. Not immortal in that they never die. I think aging of ponies is based upon something more like emotion or how old they feel as opposed to, say, second to second age inducing. Which would also make sense since magic and whatnot.

 

Yea I'll support that, afterall we don't really see any ponies besides fillies that are blank flanks, so maybe getting a cutie mark is a passage way to becoming an adult pony.

 

You know this would also explain why age spells would only be for the highest level unicorns.

Edited by Bronydash
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Not at all. They might lived a long time ago, also have an experience with magic but Discord mainly does chaos instead of magic. Sure they have some similar connections but, Discord and Star Swirl are two different species in Equestria.

 

But, as for Discord and Star Swirl being the same person. There is probably some evidence somewhere about that, but I don't really see any evidence on that.

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Is that in supplemental material or the episode? I don't quite recall anyone mentioning that he was the mentor of Clover the Clever, but I could just not remember. Also, I will point out that the Hearth's Warming Eve story is most likely legend and not an accurate representation of history. Then there's the subtle hints that ponies are immortal.

 

Yep, Twilight herself says that Clover the Clever is mentored by Starswirl the Bearded near the end of the episode. Legend or not, play or not, I don't think Twilight of all ponies would say such a thing if she didn't believe it to be at least reasonable. At that point in the show she's so OCD, she'd insist on a rewrite of that part of the play if the timeline was that messed up. She's pretty much Starswirl's biggest fan, and will at least know in general terms which order these events supposedly took place in. Which makes the banner at the end interesting, as it means Celestia and Luna either show up soon enough after that point that Twilight doesn't kick up a fuss over it as well, or that Celestia and Luna 'accidentally' resemble the two ponies in the flag. A subtle hint that perhaps they were *engineered* to be alicorns and to resemble the existent symbols of the nation?

 

For that matter there are subtle hints that Starswirl the Bearded is a crossdresser, and is actually a mare pretending to be a stallion for some reason. ;) If you try to accept all the subtle hints, you end up with madness, as *some* of them have to be wrong in order for any of it to work. The trick is picking out the ones that the writers are more likely to follow up on. Honestly I think the Starswirl -> Discord one opens up a lot more questions than the writers will be willing to deal with without abridging it so much that it will make Magical Mystery Cure look like an Extended Director's Cut. I'd like to see it, I just doubt they'll do it.

 

What I'd like to see is the show bibles. All of them. I know a pitch bible exists, primarily written by Lauren. I know standard practice is to revise the bible each season, but I don't know if they're actually doing that, or what detail they're going into. Some shows just tag prior episodes, and leave it at that. The book they recently published with the script synopses might be the extent of the bible now. Dunno.

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I always thought the connection between Discord and Star Swirl was the beard.

But still, I really wish I could believe the connections that people bring up because that would be such a good plot twist!
Celestia trains an apprentice to rule alongside her but he ends up becoming her biggest enemy? That's some Voldemort shit right there!
But enough fangasm.
We barely know anything about Star Swirl, and we also know very little about Discord's background.
It's probably not the case that they are the same, but it is possible

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I can appreciate both sides of the argument on this one but, honestly, if the writers decide that Star Swirl morphed into Discord at some point and reveal this in S4 or beyond, I'd be good with it.

 

(Specifically for this reason: watching Twilight flip out if she discovered her idol became Discord would be some funny sh*t.)

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(edited)

It's an interesting theory, as are all the theories about Celestia and her past and anything else having to do with Equestria history. The problem is that much of this is fan created rumors and there is no concrete proof in canon or any clue what the writers are thinking. My pet theory is that Clover the Clever is Celestia, but I have no proof and I just like the thought.

Edited by Nature Spell
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Very interesting, but I highly doubt that's true. I mean, they're powerful magic users, but Celestia already stated that Starswirl was a unicorn, even though she may be wrong.

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Personally, I would love it if they DIDN'T answer this question.  They could hint at it, but they shouldn't answer it flat out.  Just leave it open for interpretation for the audience.  I kinda like that aspect for this debate, and I hope they just leave it open ended for us to figure out.

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More likely Discord is a byproduct of the creation of the Elements of Harmony.  You can't have order without chaos.  There has to be balance, hence Discord's existence.

 

Wait, would that make Clover the Clever his mother?

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