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Constructive Criticism for all - "Mod Review Team"


Anorax

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a carry-over from the Featured Artist thread, and the skype chat.

 

 

[big post. I'll respond to it in full "tomorrow". Something to ponder for the time being, though:] Regarding someone reviewing every single piece of music that hits Pony.fm, while it would be pretty cool and would do a fine job of setting Pony.fm apart in a big way, consider that Sethisto has stated on MyLittleRemix that EqD gets about 20-30 tracks per day. That's a LOT of music. That'd be a hardcore strain on a team of, let's say, 10 reviewers. A lot more brony music gets made than many people realize.

 

In my experience, though, the best musicians are also the confident ones. If you were to, let's say, have slightly larger team of reviewers who might focus on collectively relaying at least one piece of critique, while leaving the more experienced QA team in charge of any music people submit to be featured, that might be an effective middle-ground.

 

It would also take care of the pre-listening as well.

 

OCR (anyone getting tired of hearing that) has something like this in the form of a small Mod Review team. They're not part of the judges panel, but are there to quickly provide feedback when asked.

 

So it'd be kinda like that, except everyone gets one.

When they upload their song.

Keep in mind that this also carries over from the Featured Artist thread and the ideas presented therein.

 

The idea so far is that there should be a Judges Panel of sorts, that judges songs in the Pony.FM database for a possible title of "Featured Song" - whether it's "song of the day" or what, we're not sure. That's still up in the air.

 

However, it was also brought up in the Skype chat about making sure that everyone who submitted a track got feedback, and you can see this above in DusK's comments.

 

Herein lies the question of a "Mod Review" team, which can provide feedback to EVERY track when it's uploaded. the Mod Review team will be separate from the Judges Panel, but can still provide detailed feedback regarding the song. This not only provides the artist with constructive feedback regarding the technicalities of music, but it can also be an incentive for more people to come join pony.fm - why wouldn't you want to join a website that gives you [free!] constructive feedback on every song you upload?

 

So, what are your thoughts on this idea?

Edited by Anorax
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In all honesty, while the idea of at least one piece of feedback being guaranteed when an artist uploads a track to Pony.fm, it doesn't take into account that some people just don't want their tracks to receive criticism.

 

What I suggest is for the site to allow users to request feedback. It could be as simple as a "request feedback" button on the edit screen. This could flag the track for a review team (likely chosen by Feld0, some sort of vote within the community, or could be a position applied for (see below for more details on how that can be beneficial)) to supply critique on the track, and this request could maybe also be indicated somehow when viewing the track anywhere else on the site so that other users of the site could provide feedback as well if they want. I believe deviantART has a feature like this.

 

This would allow anyone who requests feedback a guarantee that they'll get it (which is still something no other site in the brony music community does), while still allowing people who don't really want any criticism to opt out.

 

Allowing people to apply to be an initial reviewer could also allow for a very useful stepping stone towards being part of the QA team that handles the review process for Featured Artists or Featured Tracks.

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would the "request feedback" button be checked by default?

 

I also think that this could also be implemented on the upload page - they're given an option to opt out upon upload, as well as later when they edit their track

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What I suggest is for the site to allow users to request feedback. It could be as simple as a "request feedback" button on the edit screen. This could flag the track for a review team (likely chosen by Feld0, some sort of vote within the community, or could be a position applied for (see below for more details on how that can be beneficial)) to supply critique on the track, and this request could maybe also be indicated somehow when viewing the track anywhere else on the site so that other users of the site could provide feedback as well if they want. I believe deviantART has a feature like this.

 

 

would the "request feedback" button be checked by default?

 

I also think that this could also be implemented on the upload page - they're given an option to opt out upon upload, as well as later when they edit their track

 

In some ways, I can understand not wanting feedback. If music is simply something that one does as a hobby, if it's a work in progress, or if music is simply a stress reliever, then reviews may not be necessary - it's simply not needed, and the artist is fine with that,.

 

As a very basic proposal:

 

When a song is initially uploaded, there would be a box (unchecked by default) that would say something like "Request feedback". That way an artist can choose from the get-go.

 

In the "Edit track" section, the same box would be available to toggle feedback/no feedback, in case someone changes their mind.

 

Finally, in the artist's track list, a button (part of a drop-down menu?) would rest next to all tracks that are both uploaded AND published, reading "Submit for Feature" or something of the like.

 

 

With those in mind, an artist has three ways they can go: zero outside intervention, reviews, and then critical reviews/possible featuring.

 

Edited by CloudFyre
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In some ways, I can understand not wanting feedback. If music is simply something that one does as a hobby, if it's a work in progress, or if music is simply a stress reliever, then reviews may not be necessary - it's simply not needed, and the artist is fine with that,.

 

As a very basic proposal:

 

When a song is initially uploaded, there would be a box (unchecked by default) that would say something like "Request feedback". That way an artist can choose from the get-go.

 

In the "Edit track" section, the same box would be available to toggle feedback/no feedback, in case someone changes their mind.

 

Finally, in the artist's track list, a button (part of a drop-down menu?) would rest next to all tracks that are both uploaded AND published, reading "Submit for Feature" or something of the like.

 

 

With those in mind, an artist has three ways they can go: zero outside intervention, reviews, and then critical reviews/possible featuring.

 

This guy's got the right idea.

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(edited)

reviews, and then critical reviews/possible featuring.

Hmm... which selection would go to the "mod review" team? I'm assuming the "reviews"

 

maybe on moderator accounts, they have a special page that lists all songs marked as "review requested" - or, as I like to think of it, "mod review".

 

And as such, accounts of people who are part of the Judges Panel would have a special page in their accounts where they can not only view the "mod review" songs, but the "critical review/possible featuring" songs as well.

 

basically, mods can see one special tag - reviews, and judges can see two - "reviews" and "crit. review/ feature submission"

 

this way, if a judge isn't busy actually judging, they can make a "regular" review of the 'mod review' tracks.

Edited by Anorax
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I believe deviantART has a feature like this.

 

deviantART has a "request critique" feature, but it isn't all that close to what we're throwing around for Pony.fm. For one, the ability to both give and request "critique" is a premium member feature. Checking the box on a deviation throws up a huge "This artist has requested critique." box beneath the picture which takes up a good chunk of the page. Premium members can click "write a critique" and get to submit a writeup, which is essentially a "stickied", somewhat prettier, and generally high-quality comment.

 

There is no editorial review process; it is a decentralized peer-to-peer system, and it is exclusive to premium members on both ends.

 

 

When a song is initially uploaded, there would be a box (unchecked by default) that would say something like "Request feedback". That way an artist can choose from the get-go.

 

In the "Edit track" section, the same box would be available to toggle feedback/no feedback, in case someone changes their mind.

 

Finally, in the artist's track list, a button (part of a drop-down menu?) would rest next to all tracks that are both uploaded AND published, reading "Submit for Feature" or something of the like.

 

 

With those in mind, an artist has three ways they can go: zero outside intervention, reviews, and then critical reviews/possible featuring.

 

I'm against making review or feature requests reversible. Both functions necessitate that a human staff member set aside unpaid time in their lives to critically listen through, analyze, and write up a review on a piece of music. How would you feel, as a reviewer, if five minutes before wrapping up and submitting your review, the artist changed their mind and unchecked the box?

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I'm against making review or feature requests reversible. Both functions necessitate that a human staff member set aside unpaid time in their lives to critically listen through, analyze, and write up a review on a piece of music. How would you feel, as a reviewer, if five minutes before wrapping up and submitting your review, the artist changed their mind and unchecked the box?

 

I'm with you (maybe I didn't specify): feature requests should NOT be reversible. I completely agree.

 

As for the previous half, I understand the concept I suppose, but as you said, some artists (you've mentioned a few names over time in various threads) may take some "convincing" to get them to put their tracks up for review.

 

So now that I look at it, I guess I agree with everything you've said - so what if it was a one way process?

 

The options are:

1) Review requests can be toggled. (Feature requests will be permanent actions.) We've already decided against this option.

2) All decisions must be made at the time of upload.

3) Decisions can be made at the time of the upload, or can be requested at a later date, with the knowledge that the decision is a one time, irrevocable decision on the author's part.

 

I personally like the third option the best, as it gives the most amount of flexibility. If I was a new author, I may not want to request feedback right in the moment, but if my YouTube video suddenly goes viral, I may start to reconsider my position.

 

As an idea (I'm not even sure if I like it): you could allow decisions to be revokable only if no feedback has been submitted.

 

Again, I'm not even sure I like the idea of revokable stati , but I figured I'd put it out on the playing field anyways.

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