Discord's Redemption - Good or Bad?

[hawkflame 3,308]

No, but to me it looks like you're one of the few that's incapable of enjoying him for his personality and being back for future episodes enough, in order to counteract your sense of loss over the fact that he's no longer a threat. I miss him as a villain too. Most people do. There's two sides to every coin however, and most people are saddened by what's been shed, but also excited for what new opportunities he has.

 

TL;DR you're being a pessimist stahp

If a character comes back, but basically comes back as half the character he was (with IMO a major part of his appeal missing) then I find it difficult to be all that excited about it. I just find that it's a big hole left that's very hard to make up. Edited June 17, 2013 by hawkflame

[NavelColt 22,876]

If a character comes back, but basically comes back as half the character he was (with IMO a major part of his appeal missing) then I find it difficult to be all that excited about it. I just find that it's a big hole left that's very hard to make up.

 

He's not half a character of what he was to me, or apparently most people. He's simply changed his routine :3 But, like I've said before elsewhere, can't really tell what he's going to do yet, so S4 awaits.

[Pixel Stick 927]

If a character comes back, but basically comes back as half the character he was (with IMO a major part of his appeal missing) then I find it difficult to be all that excited about it. I just find that it's a big hole left that's very difficult to make up.

 

I agree that it can be difficult to make up for such a gap, especially when there's basically no explanation for the reformation - I agree that KCaFO had this concept of Discord's reformation come totally out of left field, and they didn't do a good enough job explaining what Celestia had in mind for Discord's powers.  (I think by the time this episode aired, they'd announced that there would be a Season 4, though I can easily see how they may have written its script based on the idea that there wouldn't be, so they probably figured they didn't NEED to expand on this - they just wanted to tie up loose ends.)

 

But like with Princess Twilight, I do see some room for exploration here.  As the spirit of chaos and disharmony, Discord is still dangerous - there's a reason Celestia entrusted Twilight with the Elements of Harmony even after Discord agreed to play nice.  She doesn't trust him completely, nor should she.  I honestly don't think Discord is as "broken" as a lot of people do - he's been tamed somewhat, but the episode's nuances suggest that he may not be satisfied with his friendship with Fluttershy or this truce he has with Celestia for very long.  Perhaps he really would be tempted by the opportunity to become chaotic and uncontrollable once again.

 

There are a number of possibilities for a good, compelling plot surrounding that, which in my mind would validate both Return of Harmony AND KCaFO's events.  One such plot expands on the idea I had earlier: Without telling anyone his plan, Discord appears to join up with Queen Chrysalis, causing chaos and enabling her to gain some sort of victory over Celestia and the Mane 6.  Perhaps partway through this, one of the ponies (most likely Fluttershy, since she's closest to Discord at this point), or maybe Spike (who's frequently the most level-headed one in a lot of these plots), suspects that Discord isn't in fact betraying them, but of course nobody else listens.  When it looks like everything's doomed to fail, Discord suddenly turns the tables on Chrysalis and restores everything - the apparent victories she had were all an illusion used to lure her into a trap.

 

I personally would love to see this be all Discord, and not with any of the ponies' help (even Celestia).  That, to me, would show Discord is still true to his chaotic, unpredictable and POWERFUL self, while at the same time validating his alliance with Celestia, and playing to his cold, calculating side as well.  (He already demonstrated how he can put together elaborate plans that are really anything but chaotic in order to further his own ends.)

 

Briefly, I also thought of Chrysalis using her changeling abilities to impersonate Discord, something that he probably wouldn't take kindly to.  A little T-1000 action, perhaps?

[DiscordAnarchy 770]

Hm. I think these little ponies fail to see what really happened within the episode, so allow me, a true master of Chaos and Anarchy to explain the situation.

 

You may think that Discord is reformed, but I assess that he is not. First of all, you need to understand that one of the first things Discord did while free was to remove every chance that the ponies have to imprison him. He first destroys all of Twilight's spell books that have anything to do with the spell. Second he convinces Fluttershy to never use her element against him and no matter how angry or upset Fluttershy can get, she won't break a sincere promise.

 

Discord has been shown the "magic of friendship" yes but that does not mean he is reformed. He does not wish to lose Fluttershy as a friend but that does not ensure that he will keep to his word after she passes away. As an immortal, Discord will feel the passage of time as years being nothing more than days to him. It will only be a matter of time before Fluttershy is gone and he can continue where he left off.

 

I shall also stress that Discord (or was it Celestia?) mentions that his power will come in handy in the future. His

"reform" will only be enforced until he needs to use his powers to combat whatever true evil is on the horizon...

 

Chaos, my dear little ponies, does not reform. It just bides its time...

 

*toothy grin*

[UndeadPony 1]

ehh I don't really like it or how quickly he was reformed   but if he keeps his personality and it means more discord in season 4 than i'm happy

[CastletonSnob 3,025]

How do you feel about Discord's reformation? Do you like it, since he appears more, or do you wish he stayed as a villain?

[Brony Number 42 9,926]

I like it. It makes sense since I don't think he was evil, just being a jerk.

[Misty Shadow 7,084]

The reformed Discord is cool. I love how they didn't turn him into a goody-goody after they made him a supporting character and kept his hilariously unlikable persona. He never came off to me as truly evil either, I always saw that scene where he tried to encourage Twilight into "getting into the spirit of things" as foreshadowing to the fact. 

[Mongo 45]

All for his Reformation.  He has also become a great friend of Spike and Big Mac, especially helping him get Sugar Belle back in S8.

[Jeric 46,834]

On 2/15/2013 at 3:50 PM, ~C. Discord~ said:

If I took a drink for every time I've linked to this topic of mine because it's relevant to the present discussion, I'd die from alcohol poisoning.

 

The above are my thoughts on why Discord changing from villain/antagonist to neutral/good is a good move, character-wise. No, I don't think he's ruined, I think he's evolving as a character. Now that he's broken out of the 'muwahahaha, imma turn yur world into chaos' role, and is thus no longer in imminent danger of being petrified over and over again for all eternity in this never-ending storyline device, his character is free to move on to all sorts of things. Sure he's not going to transform the world into chaos and try to take over now, but that doesn't make him less of a character. I doubt his personality will change, I doubt he'll stop being a world-class prankster, and I doubt we won't see him again.

You still with us?

@VG_Addict I sent your topic to an older topic so that users will have the benefit of a wealth of perceptions from the history of this discussion point. 

 

[bigbertha 410]

I don't think it was a good change overall, but it didn't do as much harm as Alicorn Twilight.

The problem with reformed Discord at first was the fact that he didn't act reformed. Not only did Keep Calm and Flutter On do a pretty bad job with convincing me that Discord reformed, but nothing in season 4 proved me otherwise. He acts like a dick in both Princess Twilight Sparkle and Three's a Crowd, but suddenly I was supposed to care about him in Twilight's Kingdom? His arc did nothing for me because it was set up terribly. 

Season 5 helped him a bit with Make New Friends But Keep Discord which hit the sweet spot of holding him back and still having him be chaotic. And then it went back to square one with What About Discord so I'm generally neutral to Discord in season 5.

Since season 6 however, Discord has been pretty well characterized. He has never hit the high of Make New Friends, but he also hasn't hit the same lows of Three's a Crowd and What About Discord (aside from the fluke that was A Matter of Principals). The writers have done a pretty good job balancing Discord's jerky and softer sides. 

And yet I can't help but think Discord would've been more entertaining if he stayed a villain. Pretty much everything that doesn't work about Keep Calm and Flutter On had to do with Discord's reformation. Discord himself was a ton of fun. In fact, I'd say Discord was more fun in Return of Harmony and Keep Calm and Flutter On than any of his post season 3 appearances sans Make New Friends But Keep Discord. And I'd gladly give up Make New Friends if it meant more Discord appearances on par with his first two. But whatever. Discord still has his moments now and he at least wasn't (consistently) ruined from his big change unlike Twilight.

[Will Guide 21,325]

2 minutes ago, bigbertha said:

I don't think it was a good change overall, but it didn't do as much harm as Alicorn Twilight.

The problem with reformed Discord at first was the fact that he didn't act reformed. Not only did Keep Calm and Flutter On do a pretty bad job with convincing me that Discord reformed, but nothing in season 4 proved me otherwise. He acts like a dick in both Princess Twilight Sparkle and Three's a Crowd, but suddenly I was supposed to care about him in Twilight's Kingdom? His arc did nothing for me because it was set up terribly. 

Season 5 helped him a bit with Make New Friends But Keep Discord which hit the sweet spot of holding him back and still having him be chaotic. And then it went back to square one with What About Discord so I'm generally neutral to Discord in season 5.

Since season 6 however, Discord has been pretty well characterized. He has never hit the high of Make New Friends, but he also hasn't hit the same lows of Three's a Crowd and What About Discord (aside from the fluke that was A Matter of Principals). The writers have done a pretty good job balancing Discord's jerky and softer sides. 

And yet I can't help but think Discord would've been more entertaining if he stayed a villain. Pretty much everything that doesn't work about Keep Calm and Flutter On had to do with Discord's reformation. Discord himself was a ton of fun. In fact, I'd say Discord was more fun in Return of Harmony and Keep Calm and Flutter On than any of his post season 3 appearances sans Make New Friends But Keep Discord. And I'd gladly give up Make New Friends if it meant more Discord appearances on par with his first two. But whatever. Discord still has his moments now and he at least wasn't (consistently) ruined from his big change unlike Twilight.

I must strongly disagree with you with Discord's reformation being poorly handled.

To paraphrase Fluttershy in Fame and Misfortune, "You can't expect someone to completely change who they are after just lesson". Discord went through his character development at HIS OWN pace and that's important.

[BastementSparkle 20,312]

Of all the reformed characters on the show, he's my favorite. A lot of his episodes are some of my favorites, he's consistently entertaining to watch in pretty much every episode he's in, and of all the reformed characters I think his arc is the most interesting, mostly because he's not exactly reformed in the same way the others are. I don't buy that Discord actually changed his ways because he realized he was doing something wrong, or because he feels any regret for his villainous days, honestly based off of his one comment about the "Good old days" of turning best friends against each other in "Dungeons and Discords" I think he still looks back on his time as a villain fondly. No, he changed because he realized friendship was something he wanted to have, and if he wanted it, he'd have to be willing to give up some of his chaos.

 To me, Discord is a very different kind of situation than the other reformations, because he's not a normal person. He's Chaos and Disharmony incarnate, and trying to hold him to the same standards of a normal person as if he isn't that is silly. He's always going to have a manipulative streak, he's always going to be chaotic, he's always going to gleefully enjoy it when he causes a problem, long as it doesn't make his friends totally hate him, that's just in his nature, that's not just who he is, that's WHAT he is. He's gotten a little better over the seasons about reigning in the worst of his impulses and trying to redirect his nature towards positive outcomes, like getting Fluttershy the best Hearth's Warming gift he can, or convincing his friends to have confidence in themselves, but that troublemaker aspect to him will always be present.

[Mongo 45]

I'm not a Hardline Fluttercord fan but it'd be great to see him confess he is in love with Fluttershy at the end of the series, because it looks like all signs point to it, especially after "To Where and Back Again"

[Megas 27,063]

As time went on, I've come to dislike it more and more. And a lot of it has to do with Discord himself, almost all of his appearances are just the same song and dance, he's just decides someone annoyed him for some reason and he decides to put them through hell for the fun of it, it was fun at first but when they kept doing it, especially usually with no repercussions, it just starts to degrade, to where he stops being an insane demi-god with crazy powers, and just starts becoming a prick. It started to really wane with What About Discord, and while I had initially hoped things would improve with Discordant Harmony, his assholery is put in full blast in Matter of Principals where throws a colossal tantrum and terrorizes literally everyone because he's butthurt he didn't get his way, and they reward him for it. Fuck. Right off with that garbage. At this point I'm willing to believe the only reason anyone is still willing to put up with his bullshit is because Fluttershy is regularly sucking his dick

And don't even get me started on the whole "where was Discord?!" when the movie was out or whenever any major incident happens. They're the worst

[CastletonSnob 3,025]

15 minutes ago, This Whomps said:

As time went on, I've come to dislike it more and more. And a lot of it has to do with Discord himself, almost all of his appearances are just the same song and dance, he's just decides someone annoyed him for some reason and he decides to put them through hell for the fun of it, it was fun at first but when they kept doing it, especially usually with no repercussions, it just starts to degrade, to where he stops being an insane demi-god with crazy powers, and just starts becoming a prick. It started to really wane with What About Discord, and while I had initially hoped things would improve with Discordant Harmony, his assholery is put in full blast in Matter of Principals where throws a colossal tantrum and terrorizes literally everyone because he's butthurt he didn't get his way, and they reward him for it. Fuck. Right off with that garbage. At this point I'm willing to believe the only reason anyone is still willing to put up with his bullshit is because Fluttershy is regularly sucking his dick

And don't even get me started on the whole "where was Discord?!" when the movie was out or whenever any major incident happens. They're the worst

I'm surprised the Mane Six haven't told him to fuck off by now.

They could even make a lesson out of it: Sometimes you have to cut your losses and end a friendship with someone. 

[bigbertha 410]

44 minutes ago, Will Guide said:

Discord went through his character development at HIS OWN pace and that's important.

In season 4 his own pace was no pace. There's a difference between progressing slowly and not progressing at all.

[Will Guide 21,325]

Just now, bigbertha said:

In season 4 his own pace was no pace. There's a difference between progressing slowly and not progressing at all.

 It took being taking advantage of by Tirek for him to truly appreciate his friendship with the ponies and become a better person. To me that's his true heel-face turn.

And everyone has different opinions on the reformation. Please respect my opinion. There is no right or wrong answer.

[BastementSparkle 20,312]

8 minutes ago, VG_Addict said:

I'm surprised the Mane Six haven't told him to fuck off by now.

They could even make a lesson out of it: Sometimes you have to cut your losses and end a friendship with someone. 

What about all the good stuff he's done? Helped save Equestria from the Changeling's, convinced the Mane Six to have confidence in themselves that they can defeat Sombra, helped make sure Fluttershy got the best Hearth's Warming gift, helped mend Big Mac and Sugar Belle's relationship, etc. He's clearly a very good friend to Fluttershy, he cares about her so much he nearly made himself fade out of existence just to try and make her happy. For all the problems he's caused, and still causes, and probably still will cause, he's clearly changed from who he was before.

[Will Guide 21,325]

1 minute ago, BastementSparkle said:

What about all the good stuff he's done? Helped save Equestria from the Changeling's, convinced the Mane Six to have confidence in themselves that they can defeat Sombra, helped make sure Fluttershy got the best Hearth's Warming gift, helped mend Big Mac and Sugar Belle's relationship, etc. He's clearly a very good friend to Fluttershy, he cares about her so much he nearly made himself fade out of existence just to try and make her happy. For all the problems he's caused, and still causes, and probably still will cause, he's clearly changed from who he was before.

I quite agree.

It bothers me when people completely ignore the good. They need to look for both the bad AND the good in people

[Misty Shadow 7,084]

1 hour ago, Will Guide said:

I must strongly disagree with you with Discord's reformation being poorly handled.

To paraphrase Fluttershy in Fame and Misfortune, "You can't expect someone to completely change who they are after just lesson". Discord went through his character development at HIS OWN pace and that's important.

Yeah, this is why I actually like Keep Calm and Flutter On. Everything in MLP is "rushed". When you only have twenty minutes to write something that changes the status quo of a children's show, you're going to see the episode where that change happens get right to the point. It was in character for Discord to try and weasel his way out of changing and it was in character for him to change after he realized he couldn't have his way and friendship. If he just changed after he first realized that Fluttershy actually did care about him, I would understand the complaints about poor pacing and storytelling, but even now, he does show signs that he hasn't totally changed. 

1 hour ago, This Whomps said:

As time went on, I've come to dislike it more and more. And a lot of it has to do with Discord himself, almost all of his appearances are just the same song and dance, he's just decides someone annoyed him for some reason and he decides to put them through hell for the fun of it, it was fun at first but when they kept doing it, especially usually with no repercussions, it just starts to degrade, to where he stops being an insane demi-god with crazy powers, and just starts becoming a prick. It started to really wane with What About Discord, and while I had initially hoped things would improve with Discordant Harmony, his assholery is put in full blast in Matter of Principals where throws a colossal tantrum and terrorizes literally everyone because he's butthurt he didn't get his way, and they reward him for it. Fuck. Right off with that garbage. At this point I'm willing to believe the only reason anyone is still willing to put up with his bullshit is because Fluttershy is regularly sucking his dick

And don't even get me started on the whole "where was Discord?!" when the movie was out or whenever any major incident happens. They're the worst

Dude, I'm sorry, I'm cool with you, but this is bordering on vitriol. Discord being an asshole is just part of his character, it's something you're supposed to laugh at knowing that the villainous side of him we love to hate is still there, not take to heart. He's not supposed to be like Starlight Glimmer, a main character who serves as a role model. He's supposed to be more like Trixie, a supporting gag character whose core personality is always going to be the same. Not to say that I've liked everything that's been done with Trixie and Discord, but you are taking this too personally. 

[Lunar Glow 674]

I think that he's an entertaining character evil or not, but I whole-heartedly agree that the fact that Hasbro really misstepped in reforming one of the best villains of all time. An opportunity wasted, certainly. But Discord is such a favorite among fans, what would the use be in simply getting rid of him? 

Despite my favoring of Discord as a villain, however, I wish to never see him turn back into a villain, as I feel like it's truly a cop-out and erases the meaning and importance of reforming a character in the first place.

[Here No Longer 5,270]

I think it was both good and bad in different ways and both sides of this argument have fair points.

 

GOOD

•  I liked Pre-Reformation, don't get me wrong, but I felt that he was actually better suited to more of an anti-hero role, not too much unlike Q's. in Star Trek. I think he was closer to that after reforming than before, because he actually still f***s with the mane 6 from time to time, like in Beginning of the End's sequence where he's 'trying' to fight Sombra and loses.
•  I actually don't think he had much future as being just a villain. Sure, he was definitely a well-written and formidable opponent for the mane 6, but I think if they did keep him as a villain entirely I would have tired of him a lot easier, because he would be too predictable. Which is especially bad for a trickster type of character.

 

BAD

•  I think they went a bit too far in his reformation. I think it should have taken a lot more time than it did, because I would think old habits would die hard in his case. I think he shouldn't even be close to entirely reformed yet. He should still be kind of like he was in the Season 4 Premiere were he was sort kind of reformed but not really.
•  Him getting reformed caused an issue that was really my only complaint about "Twilight's Kingdom." The issue being that I don't see Discord putting morality before causing mayhem in some way, which is what he did. They played it well, but the concept of that was in general just bad so it made the episode not quite perfect.

 

So, I personally say I'm split on it. I would lean towards it being a good thing over a bad thing, though I definitely see both sides of the coin.

Edited June 14, 2019 by DusksuD

[Brainstorm 4,092]

Discord's redemption was good, sure he acts up sometimes, but, he has improved.

[Mongo 45]

Random thought... What if he gives his life to save Fluttershy's in the finale.  That'd make it a pretty teary eyed episode if we lose Luna and Celestia as well.