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Actual Intelligent Debate Regarding Your Opinions on the Twilicorn.


Twiliscael

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One of the main reasons I don't like Alicorn Twilight is when Lauren Faust said something about her becoming a successor to Celestia.

 

If Twilight would rule after Celestia's passing everything would fall apart due to the fact She can't raise the sun.

And if she found it how to, it would just look like bad character design, she has no relations to the sun. It's like making Pinkie an Alicorn and having her take up the job of raising the moon after Luna.

 

If the new character that's practically being rumored to replace Twilight as the 2'nd unicorn would of switched with her. It would make sense due to the more Sun themed character design the new unicorn has. 

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Well, we can't say anything about Twi's future because we haven't seen the other episodes, since this whole Twilight Alicorn is actually a three-parter. If they however decide to keep Twilight in her alicorn form I can't seem but to think that there's a potential seventh main character and that character would have to be a unicorn because now we only have one, that being Rarity.

 

My own opinion on Twilicorn? Meh, I can see it having a lot of potential and the writers didn't disappoint me with season 3 at all, except for "Spike at your service" maybe, but let's not talk about that. Not only does Twilicorn open up a whole new environment for fanfics, it also gives more room for canon to develop. Now that she's an alicorn, Celestia would probably talk about many new and different things. We've already have a bit more information about Starswirl the Bearded, so perhaps even more things of the past might be revealed. Magic might be explained in how it works. So it isn't necessarily a bad thing if she were to stay as an alicorn.

 

Hey, perhaps the show might even get a storyline in season 4, making it more of an adventure-y series. This might even open the oppertunity to compensate for of the lack of mane 6 focused episodes, that means we might get less character focused episodes but everypony would get equal amounts of screentime.

 

But this is just my own speculation of course.

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A problem that needs to be addressed is that the message to young girls is a bit obscure.

 

Why Princess? What's wrong with Professor? Doctor? Or Master Wizard?

 

If Twilight mastered the Elements of Harmony and has concluded her research on Friendship shouldn't she have gained a title more fitting for her intellectual ascension? Like Professor, Doctor or Grand Alchemist? Anything but a title that comes home with a royal bloodline and family lineage. What if Starswirl the Bearded figured this out would he turn into an alicorn and be crowned a princess? So the lesson is for every little girl to read enough books to take an occupation that can't ever be earned unless you're born with it or simply nominated by the people. Ooook.

 

Why does she have to be an alicorn to be a princess?

 

Twilight Sparkle can only become a princess if she becomes an alicorn? Why can't she be a princess without having to turn into an alicorn? Wasn't King Sombra a king without... oh yeah I get it unicorns of royalty have to be evil. From what I get King Sombra probably seized kingship with militaristic force because they won't give it to him for not being an alicorn and I don't blame him.

 

I think a very interesting thing to note is that the princesses in G1 were actually a kind of a certain faction of ponies called the Princess Ponies which became the basis for Luna and Celestia. But surprise most of them were earth ponies with one pegasus and one unicorn. So you're saying G1 is less about racial superiority than G4? Whaaat??

Edited by poniesforfun
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Another thing that bugged me about how the whole ascension was handled was the idea that only unicorns can become Alicorn princesses.  That strikes me as rather unfair to the pegasi and earth ponies.  If Alicorn ascendance was to happen, it should really be based on a test of character that isn't incumbent on magical ability. 

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Personally I think you're being a bit harsh on the Twilicorn supporters. There are just as many bronies that disapprove of the twilicorn for reasons as stupid as they hate change. 

 

Personally I support the decision to change Twilight into an Alicorn. As much as a lot of you will try and deny this, the whole alicorn thing has been pretty much hinted at throughout the entire series. I respect that the writers are taking a giant leap forward, and they are not afraid to take risks. Twilight being Celestia's student is fine and all, but it will eventually get dull and repetitive if things never moved forward. It's an essential part of character development; If nothing ever changes, then the character won't be able to adapt and grow. 

 

This is something I like to call 'The Ash Ketchum Theory'. As many of you who have grown up with Pokemon probably know, the main character is a ten year old boy called Ash Ketchum. His goal is to eventually catch all of the pokemon, defeat the elite four and become Pokemon league champion. A reasonable goal for a protagonist right?

 

Well here's where it starts to go wrong. In the first season of Pokemon, Ash battles in the Pokemon league, and despite all of his efforts he still loses. This works to the advantage of the story in the first season, it shows that sometimes your best still isn't good enough, and you have to keep working hard to improve. 

 

Now, we're 11 seasons and 15 movies into the series, and barely anything has changed. Ash still isn't anywhere close to catching all of the pokemon and still has never won a Pokemon league, and you know why? Because it's too much of a risk to let the protagonist reach his goal. When the main goal is reached, the writers have to think up something else for the protagonist to chase, and this might turn some viewers away. It is far safer to just repeat the same story over and over again.

 

 

It would have been extremely easy, especially being a kids show, for MLP just to keep Twilight a student forever. I am glad that the writers grew some balls and took a chance, and who knows; this could lead to so much.

 

You are all judging this way too early. Most of you who hate the idea of the Twilicorn seem to just be afraid of change, even when it could possibly benefit the series in the long run. 

 

So give her a chance for Christ sake. Wait until season 4 gets underway before you make such rash judgements. She is still the same Twilight Sparkle we've all grown to love, she's just moving forward as a character. 

 

 

twilight_sparkle_alicorn_vector_by_kamyk

Edited by ~Lawful Jordo~
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You are all judging this way too early. Most of you who hate the idea of the Twilicorn seem to just be afraid of change, even when it could possibly benefit the series in the long run.

Hey, as they say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

Personally, I'm a little frustrated by twilicorn supporters inability to at least acknowledge the ways in which this *might* go bad. Granted, you could probably say something similar for our side... But we're going from a formula that we know works, to one that *could* work, but also stands a high risk of falling flat on its face.

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Personally I think you're being a bit harsh on the Twilicorn supporters. There are just as many bronies that disapprove of the twilicorn for reasons as stupid as they hate change. 

 

Personally I support the decision to change Twilight into an Alicorn. As much as a lot of you will try and deny this, the whole alicorn thing has been pretty much hinted at throughout the entire series. I respect that the writers are taking a giant leap forward, and they are not afraid to take risks. Twilight being Celestia's student is fine and all, but it will eventually get dull and repetitive if things never moved forward. It's an essential part of character development; If nothing ever changes, then the character won't be able to adapt and grow. 

 

This is something I like to call 'The Ash Ketchum Theory'. As many of you who have grown up with Pokemon probably know, the main character is a ten year old boy called Ash Ketchum. His goal is to eventually catch all of the pokemon, defeat the elite four and become Pokemon league champion. A reasonable goal for a protagonist right?

 

Well here's where it starts to go wrong. In the first season of Pokemon, Ash battles in the Pokemon league, and despite all of his efforts he still loses. This works to the advantage of the story in the first season, it shows that sometimes your best still isn't good enough, and you have to keep working hard to improve. 

 

Now, we're 11 seasons and 15 movies into the series, and barely anything has changed. Ash still isn't anywhere close to catching all of the pokemon and still has never won a Pokemon league, and you know why? Because it's too much of a risk to let the protagonist reach his goal. When the main goal is reached, the writers have to think up something else for the protagonist to chase, and this might turn some viewers away. It is far safer to just repeat the same story over and over again.

 

 

It would have been extremely easy, especially being a kids show, for MLP just to keep Twilight a student forever. I am glad that the writers grew some balls and took a chance, and who knows; this could lead to so much.

 

You are all judging this way too early. Most of you who hate the idea of the Twilicorn seem to just be afraid of change, even when it could possibly benefit the series in the long run. 

 

So give her a chance for Christ sake. Wait until season 4 gets underway before you make such rash judgements. She is still the same Twilight Sparkle we've all grown to love, she's just moving forward as a character. 

 

 

img-1210983-1-twilight_sparkle_alicorn_v

 

There was speculation she would succeed Celestia and Luna not become an alicorn. Nobody really saw her change to an alicorn until that poster.

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Personally I think you're being a bit harsh on the Twilicorn supporters. There are just as many bronies that disapprove of the twilicorn for reasons as stupid as they hate change. 

 

Personally I support the decision to change Twilight into an Alicorn. As much as a lot of you will try and deny this, the whole alicorn thing has been pretty much hinted at throughout the entire series. I respect that the writers are taking a giant leap forward, and they are not afraid to take risks. Twilight being Celestia's student is fine and all, but it will eventually get dull and repetitive if things never moved forward. It's an essential part of character development; If nothing ever changes, then the character won't be able to adapt and grow. 

 

This is something I like to call 'The Ash Ketchum Theory'. As many of you who have grown up with Pokemon probably know, the main character is a ten year old boy called Ash Ketchum. His goal is to eventually catch all of the pokemon, defeat the elite four and become Pokemon league champion. A reasonable goal for a protagonist right?

 

Well here's where it starts to go wrong. In the first season of Pokemon, Ash battles in the Pokemon league, and despite all of his efforts he still loses. This works to the advantage of the story in the first season, it shows that sometimes your best still isn't good enough, and you have to keep working hard to improve. 

 

Now, we're 11 seasons and 15 movies into the series, and barely anything has changed. Ash still isn't anywhere close to catching all of the pokemon and still has never won a Pokemon league, and you know why? Because it's too much of a risk to let the protagonist reach his goal. When the main goal is reached, the writers have to think up something else for the protagonist to chase, and this might turn some viewers away. It is far safer to just repeat the same story over and over again.

 

 

It would have been extremely easy, especially being a kids show, for MLP just to keep Twilight a student forever. I am glad that the writers grew some balls and took a chance, and who knows; this could lead to so much.

 

You are all judging this way too early. Most of you who hate the idea of the Twilicorn seem to just be afraid of change, even when it could possibly benefit the series in the long run. 

 

So give her a chance for Christ sake. Wait until season 4 gets underway before you make such rash judgements. She is still the same Twilight Sparkle we've all grown to love, she's just moving forward as a character. 

This, this, 1,000 times this. 

 

If anyone has seen my posts, or my sig, they probably know that I am a full on Twilicorn supporter. Why? A few different reasons.

 

1. The moral oppurtunities.

Quite simple really. This show mostly has morals based around each episode. Keeping Twilicorn can open up many possibilities, and this is just those that could center directly around her. They could use different episodes to focus on things like: Treating someone different just because they are now royalty, accepting oneself for who they are, and more.

 

2. It is a symbol of her accomplishments

The mane 6 have been through a lot, but none have learned more than Twilight. She has learned what friendship really is and why it is so important and she has learned to create her own magic, among many other things. Seeing that other dimensional plane thing in the finale was like walking down a corridor of memories and personally, I love that she has come this far.

 

3. Character advancement

Like I have said, seeing Twilight come this far is a really nice thing. Knowing that the writers might actually be willing to go with advancing the character a bit in a show like this is quite awesome. It is something that most cartoons just don't do and I would love to see what they can do with it.

 

4. It will not change the show dramatically like many fear it will

Just because she is an Alicorn princess does not mean the show has to change dramatically. Twilight's personality seems unchanged at this point and her friends are in full support. Many say that she would have to stay in Canterlot and it would ruin everything. Not quite. We don't exactly what Twilight's level of princesshood is. She may not be a strong political figure and it is more of a sign of her accompliment. Besides, Celestia and Luna are still around so why would Twilight need to stay there? She could easily stay in Ponyville. At first, things could seem different, but that is where the morals can come in. Perhaps the ponies are treating her differently at first and she becomes fed up with that. It could lead to her explaining how she is still the same old Twilight, so they shouldn't treat her otherwise. She may also not be as powerful as people think, at least nowhere near Celestia and Luna status. She was already very skilled in magic anyways so I really do not see this as a factor. Since season 4 will have 26 episodes, it leaves for plenty of breathing room, so they can focus on many things, Twilight and other things.

 

I really, really hope they do not change her back. It would follow a clichè that many cartoons have followed and it would be a giant slap to the face of everything Twilight has done and Celestia's teachings. It would feel very cheap in my opinion. Of course, this is all my opinion, but I feel strongly about it. I understand that many bronies do not want change like this, normally I am on that fence as well, but I really want to see some character advancement like this.

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The opinion that I have on the Twilicorn is, for us to give it a chance and wait for advanced development in Season 4. We all know the finale was mainly rushed, but we placed our opinions on the episode in general. It won't change the show at all, the finale showed that Twilight was ready to move on from a student to a place in royalty as a princess to hone in her new skills when she learns more magic.

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I'm perfectly fine with the physical transformation that comes with becoming an Alicorn, and I thought that the episode was fairly well done, though it was rushed. A double episode would have been better, perhaps with part 1 dealing with the cutie mark mixup and episode 2 solving it and the transformation.

 

The only qualms I hold with the concept is that I don't see how things can return to normal. I've heard numerous quotes from the actors and writers, etc that "Everything's going to be fine" (Hell, Twilight said it herself!), but I just don't see how being a princess can be possible while still maintaining her relationships with her friends in the same way.

 

Twilight's on a whole new level now, and there's really no going back. I liked it when every episode was a new adventure, and I don't mind plot changes like this, I just don't want everything to be different. I want Twilight to live in ponyville, go on adventures with her friends, and still have fun and learn about friendship. I know that it's been confirmed by various people, but even if it does happen it can't be well executed.

 

Well written, Twilight as an alicorn, and Twilight maintaining her relationships with her friends. Pick two. For them to pull off all three it would be awesome.

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Part 1

 

Was this forced by Hasbro?

While this does seem like most likely, the number 1 fact of the matter is: We don't have 100% proof. For all we know, this could have been all DHX media idea. Sure, Laruean said that she didn't come up with this idea, but I do applaud Hasbro if they did force the idea because they fitted it pretty well into the continuity. 

 

What could she do now that she couldn't do before?

First off, Twilight is not a god. Both in the Christian sense and the Greek sense. Heck, both Celestia and Luna barely fit into the Greek sense. Those two just so happen to be alicorns as well so that doesn't mean anything for Cadence or Twilight. 

 

Getting back to the topic. She can fly!...which dosen't really matter since she can teleport. 

 

The only other thing is that Twilight could potentially have an easier time doing certain task because of her subjects...but there are 4 things that could potentially happen:

1. Celestia could not like for her to use her subjects' help, (that might even be a lesson).

2. Twilight herself could potentially only want help from her friends. 

3. She does something to lose respect from her subjects.

4. What does it mean for her to be a princess? (Speaking of which). 

 

What does it mean for her to be a princess?

The big kicker in both argument is that we don't know. This could literally go anywhere. Twilight could be a figurehead, or she can make laws. They might go the kids way, they might go the actual way. They could even introduce a new original idea for being a princess.

 

Did Twilight respond logically to her first hearing of becoming a princess?

You are really going to have to listen carefully for this. 

 

Twilight did in fact, respond logically. 

 

The main thing to this is that Twilight seems to not know anything about being Alicorn. While one would assume that would mean she would be more afraid. 

 

However, I think that Twilight thinks "It looks easy, it sounds easy, it must be easy." 

 

When I was little, I used to watch this show called Ned Declassified: School survival guide. In this one episode, Ned has an idea to just get an easy A by picking electives that sound easy. 

 

So they pick cooking because it sounds easy. Of course, they knew nothing about it, so of course it sounded easy to them...so they get an F. This go on for other electives and he learns that he should've pick the elective that sounded like something he was interested in instead of to get an easy grade. 

 

Now, Twilight has no idea what being a princess is like. Having apparently not read any books on the subject seems to show that. Also, add on to the fact that is doesn't seem like any Princess has actually failed so far. While we have things like history to show the problems, Twilight has barely any info on anything hard about being a princess. 

 

Add on to the fact that she probably thinks she will have her friends with her, and that Celestia is going to guide her, add up to a heaping pile of "Everything is going to be just fine!" 

 

Where will Twilight live?
It's confirmed to be ponyville, with her friends.  
 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I love the Twilicorn!  I think that it's great that she is a princess, but it makes so many things come up.  

Will she have students?

Will there be a different set of main characters?

Will she help out the Cutie Mark Crusaders? 

Can't wait!!!!

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In my opinion it is far too early to judge seeing as we've not even seen 5 minutes of her.

 

I'm getting tired of seeing the idiot parade (not saying any names ;)) in full force saying things like "IS NOT POSSIBLE" and "NO - I WILL NEVER EVER WATCH MLP AGAIN!".

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This post came from another thread, but I feel answering it there derails discussion. Because this thread matches up my answer to the person I'm quoting best, I'll answer the post here instead.

 

Five minutes into "Wonderbolt Academy" has this: Applejack to Pinkie Pie "Why don't we go see what Twilight is up to? I hear Princess Celestia's got her working on some new spells."

Cold open to "Spike at your Service": Spike: "How are you supposed to read twelve books in one weekend?" Twilight: "Princess Celestia obviously thinks I can, or she would never have assigned them to me."

Those "hints" offer nothing about Twilight's transformation to an alicorn. Go back to the first act of The Crystal Empire, Part 1. Princess Celestia told Twilight that, once she completes and passes her test, she's capable of advancing "to the next level of her studies." That final three words are the giveaway. If she said, "to the next level" only, then her transformation/"promotion" to the Twilicorn might have gone somewhere, and it would've been a clearer hint towards alicornhood. But she didn't.

When she meant "to the next level of her studies," it means Twilight is now trusted and permitted to study and cast more advanced magic, something that can be done whether she was an alicorn or unicorn. Following The Crystal Empire, Part 2, she began studying magic that was both more advanced (like transfiguring an apple into an orange) and more pressured punctually. The magic Applejack hinted was apparently more advanced, if taking the sequence to heart. Twilight's book-reading assignment deals with cramming spells and still remembering them after everything is complete, alicorn or unicorn. Celestia believed she can maintain her composure, concentration, and patience despite feeling time pressure, hence the assignment.

 

"Magic Duel" - Princess Celestia asks Twilight to demonstrate a magic spell in front of the delegates from Saddle Arabia, bringing them to Ponyville rather than to Canterlot, which would make more sense from a diplomacy point of view. Why bring important VIPs from another country to a backwater town like Ponyville? It makes sense if you reason that she is bringing attention to Twilight to help prepare her for a position of authority.

That still offers nothing. Despite Twilight co-saving the empire from Sombra, she can still be impatient, perfectionistic, and nervous. Celestia's assignment is about performing advanced, circus-like magic under intense pressure and spotlight. This is something done all over Canterlot, Cloudesdale, and other areas in Equestria; Celestia tends to oversee these important events in general. Those who participate in these competitions — including Twilight — comprehend the spotlight. Celestia felt this'll help her function in a pressured environment better, and Twilight knew this. She can do this as an alicorn or unicorn.

It might be a bit of a stretch, but Magic Duel was also intended to be a season two episode: The final draft of the script was submitted more than two years ago, long before season three's scripts were complete. Chances are Magic Duel was sort of a response to her nervous breakdown in Lesson Zero or her anxiety in It's About Time (an episode Larson himself wrote).

 

 

I came up with these three off the top of my head, and I'll bet there are more to find if one looks for them. To say there were no hints is quite untrue.

Like I wrote earlier, they literally foreshadowed nothing regarding the Twilicorn transformation. You're confusing her becoming a princess and her becoming an alicorn. Twilight can become a princess whether she's an alicorn or not. Her being a princess was actually hinted. Her being an alicorn was not past TCEII.

If it truly was like you claim, then it's shitty foreshadowing because it's so ambiguous and offers very little logical sense to the current outcome. Foreshadowing is supposed to hint subsequent events, but their purposes should be much obvious and more straightforward than that. On the other hand, Star Swirl's book following TCEII had branches, too, but the Twilicorn hint was way more obvious than the "others."

 

In my opinion it is far too early to judge seeing as we've not even seen 5 minutes of her.

Five minutes is more than enough time to judge the Twilicorn. Magical Mystery Cure's intention was to create a first (and lasting, as it was actually a series finale) impression. If you make a character undergo a really big change like Twilight and can't accurately impress your audience, then the script has a really huge issue. First impressions are very crucial to getting your audience swayed, and her first impression failed in a quality writing standard.

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I'm not going to sugar coat this...

Removing wings from Twilight (or not) isn't going to convince me that the show is little more than a toy ad that frankly I expect in Season 4 to enjoy viewing less and less. It is not that we don't like change, it is that I believe there was no good reason for it (other than selling merch).

Season 1 and the first half of Season 2 had a lot of merit, and it is in fact why I love the show. However,  due to the historical events that I've witnessed (particularly the tasteless shoehorning of toy set pieces in the Season 2 and 3 finale);  the realisation of this has severely dented the show for me.

I cannot forget what I've seen.  I suspect the future will be more of the same as the show's past 1 and a half seasons.

Sorry if that is my unvarnished opinion, but that's how I honestly feel about the whole thing. It is not simply that "we don't like change".

Edited by SeaSpray
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Five minutes is more than enough time to judge the Twilicorn. Magical Mystery Cure's intention was to create a first (and lasting, as it was actually a series finale) impression. If you make a character undergo a really big change like Twilight and can't accurately impress your audience, then the script has a really huge issue. First impressions are very crucial to getting your audience swayed, and her first impression failed in a quality writing standard.

What credentials do you have that qualify you to judge whether a script is quality work or not? I don't think just any Joe Schmo can judge a script professionally. It really annoys me when people suddenly become experts at something they have not even dealt with.

Edited by ~Scootaloo
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@@~Scootaloo, I don't have the qualities to be a paid plumber myself, but that doesn't mean I can't criticize him if he can't unclog the pipes. Despite first-hand amateur knowledge, I may not be paid to write in the professional field, either, but I can still criticize that, too, and that's the case with the Twilicorn. Larson and the team banked on a universally great reception of the Twilicorn if you can bank on Larson, McCarthy, and their half-baked P.R. The writing and execution of it were very shaky, and two ways you can tell are judging the writing itself and reviewing its reception throughout the fandom. It was mixed at best. When the reception isn't what the writers hoped for, then your writing has a problem.

Edited by Dark Qiviut
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OK, I think this is probably the best place to let my own views loose and explain some of the things that I've been feeling.

 

Why do I have a problem with the season finale?

 

As far as I'm concerned, even with Twilicorn dislike aside, the season finale was plain awful. It was incredibly rushed, and we barely saw a few minutes of Twilicorn. We got no explanation of what will happen from now on, what being a princess will mean to her or how this will affect the mane six as a whole.

 

Now, the common argument against this is, "Well, it was only the first of a 3 parter! That other stuff will get explained!" My problem with this is, how do we know it's a 3 parter? Oh, that's right. We're now required to actively search for information on the internet to know any of this stuff. The ending raises a lot of worrying questions like, "Where will Twilight live now? Will she not stay with her friends" Of course, I know that she stays in Ponyville, but again, I only know this because I went online and searched for information about it.

 

Now, it shouldn't be this way. If the other 2 parts really do explain what's going to happen and answer all our questions then they should've been part of season 3. It is simply ridiculous to expect people who watch the show to scour interviews and visit EQD just to get an idea of what's going on and feel reassured. The episode itself should do that. Hell, even a six year old could twig that Twilight might leave her friends and get upset about it. And how many of these 'target demographic' kids do we see on major MLP sites? Exactly. The fact that twitter posts are being used as proof that everything's OK is just insulting.

 

Why am I worried about the future?

 

It's true that for the fandom as a whole, the Twilicorn issue caused a massive knee-jerk reaction and significant backlash. Before it was confirmed, most people were laughing off the rumours as 'the writers wouldn't be this STUPID' and these views were met with praise. Then the bomb dropped, people panicked, but eventually a lot of people calmed down over it. "Wait for the episode," they said. And once the episode was out, this has now become "wait for season 4. Have faith in the writers. They say that season 4 will be good."

 

One worrying thing is how ridiculous some of the attempts at being positive about this change have been. Some people are saying that, "Now that I think about it, if I was Twilight's friend I would be proud of her, so we should support her!" Really? What kind of roundabout, delusional BS logic is that? Granted, some people are genuinely excited about this change and are totally hyped, but many are drifting in the realms of "I will accept this because 'Love and Tolerate' and also if they do absolutely everything right, ever, I will still like the show." Not a good sign in my opinion.

 

OK, taking a step away from MLP for a moment... I've seen this before. Like... lots and lots of times. Let's take some examples of knee-jerk reactions... Starfire's new design and personality in Red Hood and The Outlaws. Final Fantasy 13 being linear, having no towns. Dead Space 3 being more action oriented, focusing on co-op. Ninja Gaiden 3 toning the difficulty and allowing easier combos. I could go on, (and I will eventually get round to another example) but that's some of the major ones that I can think of.

 

Now, none of these things are making anything worse from an objective standpoint. Starfire's new personality is a new personality. Whether people like it is a matter of opinion. Ninja Gaiden making things easier... that's fair enough. Some people just don't like the difficulty that the others had. None of these changes are inherently 'bad'. And as such, the knee-jerk reaction becomes one of 'trust the creators' and 'we can't judge it if we haven't seen/played it'. And...

 

Let's be honest. For many people, the things I mentioned above ruined their respective franchise. From knee-jerk, to convincing themselves that the creators know what they're doing, to disappointment. It has happened so many times with so many franchises and so many fandoms.

 

Now, you could quite rightly point out that games and comics are somewhat different to TV shows, which brings me to something else. When I was younger, I was a massive fan of the hit sci-fi sitcom 'Red Dwarf'. Interestingly, the show made some pretty meaningful changes throughout the series. In season 3, the main cast of three (Lister, Rimmer and Cat) was extended to four, with Kryten becoming a mainstay character. In the episode 'Legion', Rimmer acquires a hard-light beacon, allowing him to touch things, eat, drink and do anything a human can do despite being a hologram projection. This is the thing...

 

These changes were begged for by the fans. When Kryten showed up briefly in an episode of season 2 (Named 'Kryten', funnily enough) the fans gave such a positive reception to him that he was given a full-time role as a main cast member. Again, Rimmer's inability to touch irked many fans, and this was remedied because of this.

 

In season 7, Rimmer was effectively 'gone' and only made brief cameo appearances because the actor, Chris Barrie, was busy with another sitcom, The Brittas Empire. In his place, they got Lister's dead ex-girlfriend to come back to life. The fans... didn't want this. And season 7 was generally considered a big disappointment. But have no fear! In season 8, Rimmer is back! Oh, and did I mention that the entire crew of the original Red Dwarf is now back alive and that our four protagonists are now prisoners? Wait... fans! Come back! There was a huge knee-jerk reaction to the news, but pretty soon people were saying "If they do it right, it could work. The writers know what they're doing." And so, people calmed down. And then season 8 came out. And... f***ing s***y b******s.

 

And this is the thing. This has happened in so many fandoms, and yet, people are acting like MLP is unique, as if it's somehow exempt from this because"OMG it's ponies." I genuinely cannot think of a franchise that's had a knee-jerk reaction to something and come out the other side unscathed. I simply can't. It's practically unheard of. And this is what makes me worried, because I've been here before, many, many times, and I can't think of a time that it's ended well. People treat the MLP staff as if they're somehow beyond the mistakes that other writers might make, and that's not unique either. You'll get that in a lot of fandoms.

 

How do I think it should have been handled? What do I want/ not want from season 4?

 

I think that her becoming an alicorn was unnecessary. Assuming that Twilicorn is permanent, (and there's a lot that points to this) then there are certain things that I don't want them to do.

 

- I don't want her title as princess or her acquisition of wings to be referenced constantly.

- I don't want ponies bowing to her or treating her better than her friends.

- I don't want the other characters to get marginalized.

- I don't want to learn about the life of royals.

- I don't want Twilight to be overpowered.

- I don't want her personality to change.

 

Now, this is the thing. I'm not sure that season 4 can do these things. Twilight has undergone two big changes. For one, she changed race and gained wings. Two, she became a princess. These are two things that open up a lot of potential scenes for her, and... only her. And yet, if we're talking about moving the plot forward, we would have to see Twilight become the most important part of the show. If the writers change nothing, the show has failed because it's basically ignored the biggest event in the series. If they change the show to reflect this, they're at risk of messing with the formula and ruining it for long-time fans.

 

Why don't I trust the writers?

 

Because I think that trusting the most biased people on the planet (as regards to their own show) on the basis that they must know what they're doing because they said so and are different from other writers in other franchises is absolutely ridiculous and foolhardy.

 

In conclusion:

 

I am extremely anxious about season 4, and this is perhaps the first time that I've ever been apprehensive about watching the show. The finale hasn't quelled my fears and neither have the words of the MLP staff. I sincerely hope that in the future, I can look back on this and laugh, all the while spouting "season 4 is awesome! I am totally blown away! I can't believe I used to hate Twilicorn!" It's just that... I can't see it happening. At least if I'm not expecting much, season 4 can't possibly disappoint me.

 

/end rant

  • Brohoof 8
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Snip

 

First of all, I would like to say that I have gained a good deal of respect for you and your ability to reason after reading your post. However, I disagree with it on several points. Bear with me, this is a long post. I also was a bit lazy and didn't multiquote, but instead just responded to your post as a whole.

 

Let’s look at where we are in agreement. I also think the “next level” of her studies does not refer to Twilight becoming an alicorn. After it happened, Celestia implied that Twilight's studies as her student were concluded. So those hints of mine you quoted are more like continuity nods than foreshadowing. They help to form a theme in Season 3 that was quite absent from the earlier seasons. The true foreshadowing there was the appearance of Starswirl’s journal at the end of TCEII, which reappears in the last episode. But more on that later.

 

My point about the Saddle Arabia delegation was indeed that it was preparing Twilight for being a princess, not necessarily for being an alicorn. I was not confused, I was simply focusing on the princess rather than the alicorn part. However, I could and should have been a bit clearer on what I mean, so touché. Although it’s still possible to make the case that you can’t have one without the other. All princesses so far shown have been alicorns. One could even include Queen Chrysalis on the list, assuming one is willing to classify her as an alicorn (or even a pony for that matter). No counter examples to be had.

 

Now for the disagreements. One, related to above: yes, Celestia did take a hand in things like “The Best Young Fliers Competition”. She even came to see the “Running of the Leaves”. But in none of those other cases were important guests from other countries present, as they were in Magic Duel.

 

Two, foreshadowing does not need to be overt. In fact, foreshadowing that is too overt is a sign of bad writing. To be fair, so is foreshadowing that is too subtle. But I would rather err on the side of subtle, personally. Related to this, good foreshadowing should be most apparent in hindsight, not in foresight.

 

So let’s start at the end, with Magical Mystery Cure. In this episode, Twilight gets Starswirl’s journal from Celestia. As mentioned, this is a link to TCEII, when the same book is shown. It is also a link to those first two hints I mentioned, since one relates to difficult spells (a spell Starswirl couldn’t complete would count as difficult) and it’s in a book, another “homework assignment” from the Princess, just like her “homework assignment” of reading twelve books in one weekend. So, actually, I was too hasty to concede the point above. It could be said that those hints have a dual-purpose (continuity and foreshadowing) and as such should be considered good writing.

 

Next, the spell wouldn’t have led to Twilight becoming an alicorn if it wasn’t for the fact that she had the Elements of Harmony with her at the time. She had the Elements because of the events of Keep Calm and Flutter On. I could make the case that that episode exists purely to ensure that the Elements are in Ponyville in time for the events of the final episode. I would also call this foreshadowing, something apparent in hindsight. Personally, I would call it bad writing on one account: arguably ruining Discord to ensure that a prop is correctly positioned for a later episode. But that’s a different discussion altogether.

 

Now here’s the kicker. Twilight becomes an alicorn after helping her friends restore their cutey marks. So her friendships are pivotal to her upgrade. Was this foreshadowed? Yes, in Magic Duel again. Trixie arrives with the Alicorn Amulet. The reference to alicorns is something that is unique to Season 3, like the next level of Twilight’s studies. Alicorns were never referenced in Season 1 or 2. So we have another theme: alicorns. Next Twilight says that the amulet lets Trixie cast spells that only “high-level unicorns” can cast. So the Alicorn Amulet did not make Trixie an alicorn-level talent (such as control over the sun or moon), it made her a high-level-unicorn talent. Finally, at the end of the episode, Twilight “casts spells” that seem to be beyond anything Trixie is capable of even with the Alicorn Amulet. For the purpose of foreshadowing, it doesn’t really matter that she wasn’t actually casting those spells. My point is that she appeared to exceed even the power of the highest level unicorns, using the help of her friends. This is mirrored perfectly when her connections with her friends and her understanding of friendship result in her becoming an alicorn in Magical Mystery Cure. Even more so when you consider that she didn't cast a single spell when she was restoring their cutey marks; she only used telekinesis. She didn't cast spells when dueling Trixie either, which is another parallel. The episode is rife with foreshadowing.

 

I return to my previous point: To say there were no hints is quite untrue. Hints were dropped in The Crystal Empire, Magic Duel, Wonderbolt Academy, and Spike at your Service. It just takes a bit of thought in hindsight to uncover them. In fact, this might qualify the entire third season for Fridge Brilliance.

 

I’m curious to know, though, exactly what hints you would have liked to see in Season 3 to foreshadow Twilight’s alicorn transformation without being too obvious about it.

 

PS - I thought of one more piece of foreshadowing. Granted, it happened in The Crystal Empire, Part I. Remember the scene with Luna and Celestia wishing Twilight good luck? First they show the Princesses with their cutey marks in the background, then they show Twilight in the exact same way. That really was obvious symbolism, and a clear hint to what was to come. I seem to recall quite a few people commenting on it at the time.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Like to Full Spectrum, this reply is to a post from another thread.

 

 

Twilight has become this cute little princess that doesn't have any flaws.

Just because she became an alicorn princess doesn't equate to losing her quirks and flaws. Following her transformation, she asked aloud if there was a book about how to help rule as a princess. Plus, if the writers pay any attention come season four, she has a lot more to learn.

  1. She has a history of being socially awkward around others. Although it's long since diminished now that she's become very close with the citizens of Ponyville, she still needs to adjust to all the subsequent treatment as someone above the others, when Twilight viewed herself as equal with everyone else. How will she handle the rise in the rankings and treatment the others give her, even from her closest friends?
  2. She's still a character who can crack under the pressure if she can't handle it. Magic Duel and Games Ponies Play showed her ability to retain composure, but Magical Mystery Cure revealed some form of desperation, as she initially had no idea how to fix the spell.
  3. Despite being a princess, she has yet to show any growth of magnificent power akin to Star Swirl the Bearded, Celestia, or Luna. In Magic Duel, Twilight used her lack of ability to perform advanced magic to her advantage by playing tricks on Trixie. She has the smarts, but is still a dabbler when it comes to physical, tangible magic.

The Twilicorn is a bad idea, no questions about it, and something has to give in order for the Twilicorn to fit in without Magical Mystery Cure to not age so poorly. But it's just plain ridiculous to call her a Mary Sue (or someone close to it), especially with all of the information leaning the opposite end of the scale. If you want to be anti-Twilicorn, use solid logic to back your opinion up, because your opinion here is severely flawed.

  • Brohoof 1
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Not sure if it's just me but I have no real issue with Twilight being an Alicorn/Princess when it in comes to appearance or with how she will interact with others/be treated by others, including her friends. Nor any increase in magical power, if any. Heck, it's the princess title rather than the wings for me anyway.

 

The real reason I dislike the idea is rather petty tbh. I know this but can't really do much about how I feel. It's mainly due to my favourite character, who happens to be Luna. I can sort of see this whole princess thing taking scenes that could fit her and be passed off to Twilight now.

 

Due to this, I can be satisfied with them leaving her the way she is as long as she isn't given any responsibility in the ruling of equestria (which she has in no way earned the right to imo and i feel is in no way capable of).

I do also understand the reasons why others are dead against it too and can't really say that they are wrong for the most part.

 

I unfortunately can't say that there is anything that appeals to me about the whole thing. I am very willing to give it a chance though and hope to be pleasantly surprised.

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