Do You Support Twilicorn?

[Shift 4,271]

I support it, for it opens up many new opportunities for new episodes. More cloud cities, more RD and Fluttershy, and more problems.

[Courageous Thunder Dash 7,809]

I am still supportive of the whole Twilicorn thing. I've been ever since she transformed. It opened new doors waiting to be explored. I don't know why people don't realize that.

 

I just hope the writers don't butcher anything from here on. 

[Lewis the Brony 110]

Well, I support her being an alicorn. I'm pretty sure that none of the other Mane Six are jealous. In fact, they might know that she worked to be an alicorn.

 

But for some reason, the fanbrats (now, the ones that oppose but don't make a huge fuss of it are the sane ones) are jumping to conclusions. I don't know what's with the fanbrat's problem is but we haven't really not known much of Twilight Sparkle being an alicorn.

 

I do know that she will face new problems, new responsibilities and a lot of hard work but new doors are opened around the world when Season 4 premieres.

 

I don't know why some of the people in this fandom have a difficult change of Twilight Sparkle being an alicorn but don't worry, I'm pretty sure that all of our questions will be answered in the first episode.

 

However, I'm pretty sure that cliffhanger was there for a reason...Some villain might be coming in Season 4, so keep your eyes out. We will be waiting...

[stainesbrony 219]

Twilicorn is not as good as twilight. When I first saw twilicorn, I thought that the series would've been over, so I changed my status from "Brony" to "Ex-brony". It was the first time I changed my status in a year.

[Crimzo 13]

I've seen a lot of people getting mad over it and was wondering why, I personally like it, some people have mentioned that it means she won't be in Ponyville anymore, but why is that? There's nothing stopping her from staying in Ponyville, she could be it's overseer or something.

On top of this I have some related questions that could be a good discussion starter:

Since Twilight became an alicorn does that mean she is going to grow over the years to have more of an adult-looking figure similar to what the other princeses look like? Also is she going to live for thousands of years now? That is a sad thought since she would outlive her freinds eventually.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Crimzo

[Planty 1,052]

I will try and summarize in a few points :

 

People see this as twilight being no longer equal to the other may 6 and becoming a mary-sue type character that is all powerful;

 

She will be more distant from her friends because there not equal.

 

She is no longer the twilight people all loved <3!

 

People see it as Hasbro trying to get more money of people and ruining the show in the process, by makng people by the new twilight merch/toys.

 

People are resistant to change (this is more of a social thing and less anything to do with the show )

 

I think that's it in a nutshell but I'm sure other will add things I've missed .

[Leafeon 2,701]

Well, quite simply, there's no way she could go on the same adventures with her friends. Ever,

 

Why?

 

For starters, Twiliot is a princess. Therefore; she should be bowed to like all other princesses. Having ponies bow to her without bowing to the other cast (Especially Rarity, who should already be bowed down to), it'll be awkward. If they don't? Then that makes absolutely no sense.

 

Next, Twilight is super over powered when you compare it to the unicorn she used to be. She might not be the most powerful thing ever, but she's pretty strong, considering how Princess Celestia treated her.

 

On another note: Twilight knows nothing about ruling. She's actually laughed at when she says she wants to read something on how to look after citizens. So, she can't rule properly, unless Princess Celestia decides to teach her.

 

Finally, the worst sin, NO MORE TRIXIE.

 

TL;DR? It's an obvious way for Hasbro to sell toys.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Mothybolt

[TailsIsNotAlone 3,694]

If you read what they were saying you would know already, but basically it just doesn't fly with some bronies. They would rather have Twilight stay a unicorn and/or not become a princess because they don't like how the change happened, and some never wanted it in the first place.

 

I feel the same way, but I'm not mad about it. More disappointed.

[Clarity 3,094]

These are the reasons I've seen more often.

 

1. Twilight has wings, and thus, she is an Alicorn with major OP powers.

 

2. The "Princess" title makes her unequal and more superior to her friends.

 

3. Many people hate change in general.

 

4. It is considered too sudden, because this is only the third season and there was no buildup to the Coronation.

 

5. She did not work at being an Alicorn. This is compared to Rainbow Dash, who works at being a Wonderbolt. 

 

6. Some bronies are just discriminatory to wings.

[Crimzo 13]

 

 

I see your point Mothybolt, I was thinking about it kinda like she has a princess body now but isn't officially a full blown princess yet, but now that I think about it she did go through that cerimony and everything so I see your point. It would be bad for the show if she is elevated to too much of a higher level that the others. I remain optimistic though, I'm sure the makers will do a good job at adapting the change without ruining the chemestry between all the characters.

For instance what I mentioned already; the problem could be dealt with if you use the concept that she is only offically a princess now and she has to reach certain age or something before she is regarded as full blown royalty; in other words she is in sort of in a long transition period, where several seasons could be made before she is elevated to a level above her freinds, at least any more than she already has been (Twilight has already been at a level higher than her freinds in a sense, being a student of Celestia, her element of harmony being a tiara instead of a necklace, her magic being so ownage, and that she is generally regarded as the leader already).as long as the show stays in good hands I am sure it will turn out great.

The only thing at this point that doesn't sit right with me is that she is going to outlive all her freinds now, which is quite sad.

 

EDIT: Maybe I should mention that I had only watched 2 episodes before I saw the season 3 finale, I watched the rest of the show shortly after. That probably had an effect on my reaction to it.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Crimzo

[Sunny Fox 5,929]

The simple fact of the matter is that the status quo has changed. Inevitably, some people are going to dislike that. And they indeed do have a reason to be concerned... this is a knife-edge process here. When you make such an enormous change to a show, it's impossible to know whether it will turn out to be to the benefit or the detriment of the show. That issue will only be settled (and for some people, not even then) when Season 4 rolls around and we see where the show goes from here.

 

I tend to be optimistic about these sorts of things, but not everyone has the same level of general optimism as I do. I would give two examples: Reboot and Kim Possible. In it's third season, Reboot really shook up the status quo. The main protagonist was out of the picture, and the focus shifted to other characters. And it was glorious.

 

On the other hand, Kim Possible also shook up the status quo, and paired up the heroine and her nominal sidekick. After that, for me it was as if the show had jumped the shark. I couldn't accept it as part of the same show I had known til then, mainly because I felt that Kim and Ron worked best as inseparable life partners, as really dear friends who would always be there for each other, and not as the belle and beau of the ball.

 

I think most people who dislike Alicorn Twilight see it as more of the Kim Possible situation. For myself, I'm not sure yet whether FiM will become a Reboot or a Kim Possible. I'll sit on this very comfortable fence until Season 4 gives me reason to move.

[YuiNyan 41]

I hope that they just ignore the twilight alicorn thing and just continue the normal story...

 

and i don't really like the twilight alicorn change

[Dark Qiviut 22,171]

I hope that they just ignore the twilight alicorn thing and just continue the normal story...

Bad idea. The Twilicorn really shook up the foundation of the FIM universe, and ignoring it would make MMC look like nothing more than a twenty-minute commercial for the upcoming toyline.

 

-

 

To answer the OP in question, I'm quite possibly the most vocal critic of the Twilicorn, and I'm not ashamed to admit it. Back when the concept was first released, I wrote an editorial and updated it periodically until Magical Mystery Cure aired. I have five reasons, but the biggest for me are twofold:

1. The lack of momentum: Following The Crystal Empire, Part 2, there was nothing to hint her transfrmation until Magical Mystery Cure; her being a princess was somewhat hinted, but her alicornhood wasn't. There's a big difference between transforming into a princess and transforming into an alicorn princess, and most people on all sides of the coin — obverse, reverse, and reeds — overlook this.
2. The key reason behind it: the gimmicky gateway to promote Hasbro's toyline. Hasbro has continually pushed forward shitty ideas into the television cartoons in order to promote their own toys. Just by the poor, rushed script Larson wrote (and the half-baked PR from Larson, McCarthy, and Strong), it's blatantly obvious that Hasbro shoved the Twilicorn into the season finale in order to sell more toys. I watch FIM because it's a high quality show with the toys being so cleverly disguised that you don't notice it. FIM uses the animation to sell the toys rather than use the toys to sell the animation. MMC tried to perform the latter, and the writing failed to disguise it.

 

I think most people who dislike Alicorn Twilight see it as more of the Kim Possible situation.

I'm not all that familiar with Kim Possible, so for me, it's because of Hasbro's past. For over thirty years, Hasbro has continually shoved in shoddy ideas into the canon, forcing the animators and writers to inorganically connect them to the canons. Their track record has been hideously spotty (and for actions like what happened with G3, it nearly killed the MLP franchise), and the Twilicorn idea can really snap it in half because the concept is delicate and got off on the wrong foot. But if the writers tread carefully and develop her correctly, then Twilight can become an even better character.

[Shanks 10,811]

Though I have calmed down about it considerably and am cautiously optimistic about it working I am still not pleased about it because I feel that it was way too soon because there was not nearly enough buildup to justify it. Yes there were some hints about it but subtle hints don't cut it when it comes to a major change like this. Season 3 despite being the season that Twilight become coronated focused very little directly on her and the cutie mark switching story should have been its own episode which lead up to part 2 where she becomes an alicorn makes it seem like mere filler until the big event making this change yet even more jarring.

[Freewave 1,145]

These are the reasons I've seen more often.

 

1. Twilight has wings, and thus, she is an Alicorn with major OP powers.

 

2. The "Princess" title makes her unequal and more superior to her friends.

 

3. Many people hate change in general.

 

4. It is considered too sudden, because this is only the third season and there was no buildup to the Coronation.

 

5. She did not work at being an Alicorn. This is compared to Rainbow Dash, who works at being a Wonderbolt. 

 

6. Some bronies are just discriminatory to wings.

 

You nailed a lot of the plot points. I think the biggest issue too is how this effects the fandom. We've had almost 3 years of drawing her normal unicorn self and now all art and drawings will be either pre- or post-wings. Hasbro never has had continuity from episode to episode before (well not a lot of it, discord and Trixie's return in season 3 was part of erasing that trend which really is needed because episodes really can't function completely as stand-alones) but a physical change and almost out of the blue is a bit harder to swallow.

 

But remain calm and flutter on!

 

I've seen a lot of people getting mad over it and was wondering why, I personally like it, some people have mentioned that it means she won't be in Ponyville anymore, but why is that? There's nothing stopping her from staying in Ponyville, she could be it's overseer or something.

 

On top of this I have some related questions that could be a good discussion starter:

 

Since Twilight became an alicorn does that mean she is going to grow over the years to have more of an adult-looking figure similar to what the other princeses look like? Also is she going to live for thousands of years now? That is a sad thought since she would outlive her freinds eventually.

 

Yep you bring up some interesting additional points about alicorns. The Professor has examined these previously.  

Edited April 5, 2013 by Freewave

[Ficta_Scriptor 165]

The simple fact of the matter is that the status quo has changed. Inevitably, some people are going to dislike that. And they indeed do have a reason to be concerned... this is a knife-edge process here. When you make such an enormous change to a show, it's impossible to know whether it will turn out to be to the benefit or the detriment of the show. That issue will only be settled (and for some people, not even then) when Season 4 rolls around and we see where the show goes from here.

 

I tend to be optimistic about these sorts of things, but not everyone has the same level of general optimism as I do. I would give two examples: Reboot and Kim Possible. In it's third season, Reboot really shook up the status quo. The main protagonist was out of the picture, and the focus shifted to other characters. And it was glorious.

 

On the other hand, Kim Possible also shook up the status quo, and paired up the heroine and her nominal sidekick. After that, for me it was as if the show had jumped the shark. I couldn't accept it as part of the same show I had known til then, mainly because I felt that Kim and Ron worked best as inseparable life partners, as really dear friends who would always be there for each other, and not as the belle and beau of the ball.

 

I think most people who dislike Alicorn Twilight see it as more of the Kim Possible situation. For myself, I'm not sure yet whether FiM will become a Reboot or a Kim Possible. I'll sit on this very comfortable fence until Season 4 gives me reason to move.

 

You bring up a point that I've thought of as a main reason to be concerned, though instead of examples like Kim Possible for me it's shows like Scooby Doo (Introducing Scrappy) Red Dwarf (Pretty much everything they changed after season 6) Fairly Odd Parents (Cosmo and Wanda's baby) and House. (Switching lineups faster than a police department in seasons 4-8)

 

I think the thing is, major changes to shows can go one way or the other. Some people might like it, some might hate it, and some might not care. The ones listed above were things that made me like the series less, and in some cases lose interest altogether. We can argue reasons for the way people feel until we're blue in the face, but at the end of the day, we feel the way we feel and that's that.

 

As for Twilicorn, judging by the way I'm feeling now, it's not a good sign. I'm not hyped for season 4; I'm apprehensive. That mindset will probably continue up until the season 4 premiere no matter how much I try and convince myself that I don't mind the change. It'll likely affect my enjoyment of the episodes, and I might even stop liking the show because of it. Maybe I'm wrong, and I'll love it, but I can only speak for the way I feel as of this moment.

 

One thing that annoys me is the general view that if you start watching the show and don't like it, that's OK. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. But as soon as someone joins the fandom but starts disliking the show part way through, we're bombarded with comments about 'trusting the writers' and treated as if we're being whiny crybabies. If it wasn't for the vague concept of a 'fandom' nobody would care if you stopped watching the show.

[Freewave 1,145]

I have to agree that it's difficult to feel after season 3 like the show is necessarily on the right track. I think Twilicorn was only systematic of a problem that plagued season 3 with rushed endings, lukewarm writing, less episodes, and an overall decrease in quality. It just doesn't seem AS good a show as it was the previous seasons and I think it's important that it's ok to be wary as a fan when we see a beloved show begin to waver (without completely turning on it of course).

Edited April 5, 2013 by Freewave

[Shanks 10,811]

It just doesn't seem AS good a show as it was the previous seasons and I think it' simportant that it's ok to be wary as a fan when we see a beloved show begin to waver (without completely turning on it of course).

Of course there was an episode or two in season 3 aside from the finale that kind of missed the mark though I think much of the reason why it feels like there is a dip in quality is that it being a shorter season makes that stand out a bit more. But unlike the finale I did at least find some redeeming factors about those episodes, I am still wary but I am trying to be hopeful that they won't screw this up.

[Gadgetphile 11]

No,no and NO. But considering the season final is said to be a three parter I'm not handing in my twilight fan badge yet. We'll see in the next season.

[Anadu Kune 668]

 

As for Twilicorn, judging by the way I'm feeling now, it's not a good sign. I'm not hyped for season 4; I'm apprehensive. That mindset will probably continue up until the season 4 premiere no matter how much I try and convince myself that I don't mind the change. It'll likely affect my enjoyment of the episodes, and I might even stop liking the show because of it. Maybe I'm wrong, and I'll love it, but I can only speak for the way I feel as of this moment.   One thing that annoys me is the general view that if you start watching the show and don't like it, that's OK. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. But as soon as someone joins the fandom but starts disliking the show part way through, we're bombarded with comments about 'trusting the writers' and treated as if we're being whiny crybabies. If it wasn't for the vague concept of a 'fandom' nobody would care if you stopped watching the show.

That's called negative confirmation bias, and yes it can destroy  the show for you if you let it. All you'll be doing is unconsciously looking for bad qualities whilst looking over the good ones. Heck if you have that mind set you could convince yourself to hate pretty much any episode, here ill try.

Sonic Rainboom is a pretty poor episode, Rarity goes from supportive to self absorbed jerk in like two seconds, by way of a contrived magical spell that was clearly a ploy to sell toys. Seriously why did Twilight look for a wing granting spell first rather than a cloud walking one, why not look more thoroughly through the book first? She clearly did so afterward. Also how in the world does Rarity just automatically know how to use her wings? Magic I suppose, seems like lazy writting to me. Lets return to Rarity, she is the one to propose going to cloudsdale in the first place to support rainbow dash, yet in a ridiculously short amount of time absolutely forgets about it getting absorbed by her own magically bestowed beautey, even going as far to enter the contest herself which actually nearly results in the deaths of three ponies including herself. The worst part? She is not even scolded for it, she isnt punished for putting those ponies lives in danger, or for basically entering the contest under false pretenses. I mean come on it has to be against the rules for a unicorn to enter with fake wings and if not then that makes no sense. Rarity doesn't usually have the ability of flight it was granted to her via a magic spell that she didn't even perform. Also why does no one notice her horn? No one thinks its weird she has butterfly wings and a horn. Despite this shes allowed to enter? What kind of competition is this? Man this was poorly handled 

Im first going to point out that I love that episode. However if I try to look for negatives I can find little things and expand them and interpret many aspects of the episode as negative until I build up a huge pile whilst ignoring the good. That's the danger of negative confirmation bias. Its not usually that blatant either. I have caught myself in the act now and then on certain episodes. Friendship is Magic(pilot), Look Before you Sleep,Call of the Cutie, and One Bad Apple are all episodes that for various reasons I kind of wanted not to like. However in watching them again I realized I wasn't catching the good stuff or was missing the point of the episode. 

How do you counter act this? Look at why you don't like it or are having this negative feeling and put it in the back of your mind consciously  I imagine a black void. Its essentially putting it aside. If its an episode watch carefully for themes and visual symbolism, contrary to what many seem to think MLP has a good amount of it. After that you can better put the contents in perspective with why you had an adverse reaction to it. Sometimes you'll find you actually like the episode, if not then you'll better be able to express and understand why. I usually watch an episode I dont like at least three times, though I do that with eps I like as well. That's my approach any way hope it helps. 

A large reason for why there is a backlash to bronies who start to not like the show is because it seems to largely be expressed in the manner above. Likewise the detractors of the detractors also have trouble expressing themselves in a more elaborate manner. Of course that leads to a bit of conflict. Heres an example. 

Detractor: Magical Mystery Cure completely failed in understanding the established purpose of the cutie mark. Why in the world did their memories get swapped? Why did Rarity set up the weather when Rainbow's cutiemark is about speed?

Brony 1: Damn you guys are getting tiresome all you do is whine and complain. Just freaking appreciate you even have a show.

Brony 2 (proper/ish response): I think you are missing a key word here, that being destiny. The cutie marks were only part of the switch the entire life paths of the ponies were switched which includes the current occupations and memories of the ponies.

I see a good amount of brony 1 which is what your talking about. I think its better to discuss rather than point and say the equivalent "well you are...dumb" 

 

[HOi i'm tEMMIE 178]

These are the reasons I've seen more often.

 

1. Twilight has wings, and thus, she is an Alicorn with major OP powers.

 

2. The "Princess" title makes her unequal and more superior to her friends.

 

3. Many people hate change in general.

 

4. It is considered too sudden, because this is only the third season and there was no buildup to the Coronation.

 

5. She did not work at being an Alicorn. This is compared to Rainbow Dash, who works at being a Wonderbolt. 

 

6. Some bronies are just discriminatory to wings.

 

 

So Twilight learning all these lessons about friendship and perfecting a spell that Star Swirl couldn't thus creating new magic did not count as work? Granted Rainbow Dash becoming a Wonderbolt was more gradual than Twilight becoming an Alicorn but she still worked to become one.

Edited April 7, 2013 by mrbman9001

[Clarity 3,094]

 

So Twilight learning all these lessons about friendship and perfecting a spell that Star Swirl couldn't thus creating new magic did not count as work? Granted Rainbow Dash becoming a Wonderbolt was more gradual than Twilight becoming an Alicorn but she still worked to become one.

That's what I think, too. My post was titled "These are the reasons I've seen more often" and thus I have chosen those reasons from other people's posts. I frankly couldn't care less about Alicorn Twilight myself.

[Ficta_Scriptor 165]

 

 

That's called negative confirmation bias, and yes it can destroy  the show for you if you let it. All you'll be doing is unconsciously looking for bad qualities whilst looking over the good ones. Heck if you have that mind set you could convince yourself to hate pretty much any episode, here ill try.

 

 

Yeah, you're probably not wrong there. The thing is, it's not the mindset that I want, (hell, if I could take a pill that made me love Twilicorn I'd take it in a heartbeat) but since I've already been through a spate of falsely convincing myself that I was OK with the change, I'm not going to try forcing another one.

 

Weirdly enough, in the week or so leading up to the season finale I was supposedly 'indifferent' to the change and was just looking forward to seeing what the writers could do with this. But once I finally watched the episode, the trance was broken and I came crashing back down into reality. I realised then just how much I'd been lying to myself. I tried, and I mean really tried to convince myself that I should feel positive about this change, but nothing has worked. So... I've stopped trying. *shrugs* In the end, just sitting and waiting for season 4 seems like my best bet.

[hawkflame 3,308]

Most of the reasons here have been covered, but IMO one big one hasn't.  I've spoken about this issue quite a few times in this forum, so I think I'll just reference one of my previous posts here:

 

(from http://mlpforums.com/topic/50881-do-you-support-twilicorn/page-5#entry1210921)

 

If I may go further, I think that the writers have a difficult road ahead of them.  When I look at how things could develop here, I see a lot of... well, it's not impossible for things to develop *great*, there's a lot of room for things to go wrong.  I feel like they may be stuck between several rocks and hard places here.  If the changes are huge, and Twilight's being all princessy and living in a castle in Canterlot and having to deal with her royal duties and whatnot, they risk losing part of what made the show appealing in the first place.  If the changes are minimal, and Twilight is still living in the Ponyvlle Library and oh by the way she has wings now and is a princess, then the whole ascension has been rendered completely pointless. 

 

Now I don't think that either of these extremes is going to happen, but the writers are going to have to navigate their way between them.  What should change?  How much should change?  Should she stay an Alicorn?  Should she give up her wings at some point?  What about the rest of the Mane Six?  Will they be in the shadow of Twilicorn?  The fans expect this.  Hasbro expects that. I dunno, I think that walking this kind of a tightrope act by DHX is going to be kind of hard. 

 

There's so much uncertainty in the air right now, and I've never really been a big fan of that.

[Anadu Kune 668]

Yeah, you're probably not wrong there. The thing is, it's not the mindset that I want, (hell, if I could take a pill that made me love Twilicorn I'd take it in a heartbeat) but since I've already been through a spate of falsely convincing myself that I was OK with the change, I'm not going to try forcing another one.

 

Weirdly enough, in the week or so leading up to the season finale I was supposedly 'indifferent' to the change and was just looking forward to seeing what the writers could do with this. But once I finally watched the episode, the trance was broken and I came crashing back down into reality. I realised then just how much I'd been lying to myself. I tried, and I mean really tried to convince myself that I should feel positive about this change, but nothing has worked. So... I've stopped trying. *shrugs* In the end, just sitting and waiting for season 4 seems like my best bet.

Oh its hard and there may be a lingering feeling for a while. Its not quite about forcing yourself to have an opinion but trying to take a different approach to looking at what is bothering you. Here is an example.The fact that the episode was structured as a musical has seemed to throw people off. It seems there is a tendency to enjoy the songs as songs but not quite recognize them as plot points that contain vital audio and visual info essential to the story. When you start looking at songs for that relevant info youll notice new things just in that episode but in all of them.  Thinking about the technical reasons for musicals would also give a much different perspective.

 

Ill give you an example of something I really felt off about when watching the show early on, cutie marks. The very idea of them struck me as wrong and the name was just way too cute. I didnt like how the ponies seemed to be bound by this mark that they seemed tie to do a certain one thing. The suggestion of destiny itself seemed off. However when I rewatched the episode I caught the theme of growth and self discovery. After that I began re-examining of of the main 6 cutie marks. Then I noticed something Twilights cutie mark had five stars this represented her friends, it was confirmed somewhere and then it all clicked. The connection to the elements how they shared the shape of the cutie mark which I overlooked. I recognized it as an very smart incorporation yes it involved destiny  but I found that many other things I liked did as well. The original Star Wars movies are filled with references to destiny and I loved that. Soon all the reasons I had for disliking curie marks fell away and I realized I had missed their dept and point to begin with. This wont always happen but it never really hurts.