gaming The Elder Scrolls Series {Including Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, and ESO!}

[The Milkman 186]

 

 

...

What else?

 

 

Oblivion> Skyrim.

 

Anyway, I've only played Oblivion and Skyrim, with Oblivion being my favorite. Oblivion was just alot more fun to me, I really don't know why. Skyrim seemed too easy, even on master difficulty, and the dungeons got really repetitive.

 

Play Morrowind, it's better than those two by a long shot.

 

My favorite race is Orc, damn i love rushing and watching them die.

[Twiliscael 3,958]

 

 

...

What else?

 

 

 

 

Play Morrowind, it's better than those two by a long shot.

 

My favorite race is Orc, damn i love rushing and watching them die.

 

What console is Morrowind for? THAT could cause a problem, otherwise I'd definitely try it out.

 

Also, I've only heard positive things about Morrowind... is it really that great?

[The Milkman 186]

What console is Morrowind for? THAT could cause a problem, otherwise I'd definitely try it out.

 

Also, I've only heard positive things about Morrowind... is it really that great?

 

PC and XBox.

Yes, it's amazing, like i said before it's better than Oblivion and Skryim, by a very very long shot, if you play it you will notice.

[shotoku 47]

I dislike Morrowind because there is this one place you can find moonsugar early in the game but if you do you can't go to any stores without being scolded, so I just had to leave it the rest of my playthroughs =/ I liked Skyrim the most out of the three I played because of how dynamic the scenes are, how beautiful the landscape is, and the le veling system was the best out of them IMO

[Evilshy 5,089]

It really depends on what you like. Morrowind is much more an RPG than Oblivion or Skyrim. It's immersive, it's hard, and stuff you do actually matters. It's not a "start a new game, kill some stuff, beat it in a few days" sort of thing. You explore and find cool stuff. You join factions, which will immediately effect what else you can do. People in the mages guild will get hated on by House Telvanni, for example. There are definite cultural differences as you travel throughout the province. There's no compass telling you where to go next, you have to actually pay attention to the people giving you quests, because they'll often give you directions to the area or mark it on your map. But there's no fast travel, you have to walk (or pay a travel service).

 

Basically, of you want an RPG that will immerse, frustrate, and amaze you for many hours, play Morrowind. If you want action-packed fights every few minutes, play Skyrim.

 

I dislike Morrowind because there is this one place you can find moonsugar early in the game but if you do you can't go to any stores without being scolded, so I just had to leave it the rest of my playthroughs =/ I liked Skyrim the most out of the three I played because of how dynamic the scenes are, how beautiful the landscape is, and the le veling system was the best out of them IMO

 

>open inventory

>drop moon sugar and skooma on the ground in front of you

>conduct your business

>pick up moonsugar and skooma

>you win

 

Also, Khajit merchants will buy moonsugar, and there are like 2-3 in the second city.

 

Also, if you get the Morrowind Sound and Graphics Overhaul, it looks just as good as Skyrim

 

Can't really comment on the leveling system, as I haven't played muh Skyrim, but from what I did play, they just took Morrowind's, removed a bunch of stuff, and called it good. Wouldn't want the CoD kiddies to be confused by things like stats or classes, now would we?

Goddammit, Bethesda. So much wasted potential in that game...

Edited August 30, 2012 by Evilshy and His Own Ego

[Veiled Enigma 389]

Morrowind is by far one of the best RPGs I have ever played. The combat is wonky, but the music, story/lore, environment and writing are just amazing.

 

I dislike Morrowind because there is this one place you can find moonsugar early in the game but if you do you can't go to any stores without being scolded, so I just had to leave it the rest of my playthroughs =/ I liked Skyrim the most out of the three I played because of how dynamic the scenes are, how beautiful the landscape is, and the le veling system was the best out of them IMO

 

That's a silly reason to dislike a game, but I do agree with you about the leveling system. Out of the variety of things that have been changed in Skyrim compared to the other ES's the leveling was a vast improvement.

[shotoku 47]

@,

That's a silly reason to dislike a game

 

Okay my bad for not clarifying. I don't dislike Morrowind as a whole, just that and a few things I didn't like when building a custom class (I wish the premade classes were more balanced).

I still really like Morrowind and spent many happy hours playing it and exploring dungeons and the such. It is just the things I like in Morrowind I like in Skyrim and Daggerfall better, and the things that bug me are lessened in Skyrim

Edited August 30, 2012 by shotoku

[Tdroid 234]

Can't really comment on the leveling system, as I haven't played muh Skyrim, but from what I did play, they just took Morrowind's, removed a bunch of stuff, and called it good. Wouldn't want the CoD kiddies to be confused by things like stats or classes, now would we?

 

I would hardly say that is a description of how Skyrim's leveling is. It is a fitting description of Oblivion's since it is exaclty the same as Morrowind's, but with a few semantics differences and a few less skills. Skyrim's system on the other hand actually present the player with meaningful limitations, unlike the two previous games(can't really comment on Daggerfall, never played it much).

 

Having a limited amount of increases to Magica/Health/Stamina and a limited amount of Perks to specialize in skills, Skyrim does a better job to specialize the character than the classes in Morrowind and Oblivion ever did. Because of the lack of meaningful limitations in Morrowind and Oblivion the classes were essentially only a label with no real advantages.

 

You could say they removed things, and they did remove the attributes, classes and the birthsigns, but only the last of these can be said to have an actual negative effect on the character customization. Other than in name of course, I have seen enough of these debates to know that many people automaticly think "More numbers = more depth" and "Label = Necessary to Roleplay".

[Jadefire 2,796]

At the risk of starting a flamewar, there is one thing I want to say: I'm a huge Elder Scrolls fan, but I tried Morrowind once, and I didn't enjoy it very much. I would say that it wasn't very good, but I understand that different people have different opinions.

 

Anyway, change of topic time: So, which is your favored race throughout the games? For me: Argonian for life. Lizardmen are best men, after all. :3

[Lightning Fluttershy 1,844]

Well... I guess I'm the only one here who is going to vouch for Skyrim being the best? Okay. Skyrim's graphics are out of this world and the game play is amazing. The story telling leaves something to be desired but there is there is just so much to do I can overlook the flaw easily. I strongly believe the Skyrim was the best elder scrolls game.

[Evilshy 5,089]

 

I would hardly say that is a description of how Skyrim's leveling is. It is a fitting description of Oblivion's since it is exaclty the same as Morrowind's, but with a few semantics differences and a few less skills. Skyrim's system on the other hand actually present the player with meaningful limitations, unlike the two previous games(can't really comment on Daggerfall, never played it much).

 

Having a limited amount of increases to Magica/Health/Stamina and a limited amount of Perks to specialize in skills, Skyrim does a better job to specialize the character than the classes in Morrowind and Oblivion ever did. Because of the lack of meaningful limitations in Morrowind and Oblivion the classes were essentially only a label with no real advantages.

No real advantages? What? Skills can get a bonus from: race, specialization, majors/minors, and birthsigns. They are also governed by attributes.

And no limitations? You're class, custom or otherwise, along with everything else you chose in character creation, can limit you. A Mage can't just go toe-to-toe with a warrior without some serious magic. You have to have skills for armor to even work, and you can have the best weapon in the game, but you can't hit jack shit with it if you have a low weapon skill. Without security and/or sneak, there's a lot of cool stuff you miss out on early game because you can't fight your way through what's guarding it until higher levels.

 

I honestly have no idea where younger the idea that Morrowind has no limitations or advantages. Just because you CAN do everything doesn't mean it's all even remotely viable.

 

 

You could say they removed things, and they did remove the attributes, classes and the birthsigns, but only the last of these can be said to have an actual negative effect on the character customization. Other than in name of course, I have seen enough of these debates to know that many people automaticly think "More numbers = more depth" and "Label = Necessary to Roleplay".

 

With attributes gone, that pretty much halves the distinction between races (although IIRC altmer start with extra magicka). And Skyrim races don't even have weaknesses, just strengths. Without classes and major/minor skills, you don't have to choose anything to focus on because skill leveling isn't biased. Birthsigns are yet another layer of customization taken away. A birthsign could change you're entire style of play in Morrowind, and now we don't even have those. I will admit, perks are nice, but I'm sorry, perk trees just don't replace the customization of Morrowind.

 

And actually, yeah, in this case more numbers = more depth. More skills means more things have their own skill, meaning you can do A well, but not B, whereas in Skyrim, A and B are the same thing. Because obviously, all one-handed weapons are used exactly the same way (for example). Using a dagger is exactly the same as using a mace or a broadsword. Yeah, mm-hm, plenty of depth there.

 

It's just this new generation of gamers who don't want to have to think, so everything gets toned down and made really easy for them. Under the guide of streamlining, of course. This isn't directed at you, Tdroid, by the way.

[Flying Whales 311]

Anyway, change of topic time: So, which is your favored race throughout the games? For me: Argonian for life. Lizardmen are best men, after all. :3

I agree with you there totally. I love the Histskin, in opinion it's a pretty OP power espically for Argonian warriors. Their ability to breath underwater is a nice perk and so is their resistnace to disease. Plus it's just kind of fun playing as a lizard dude.

[Tdroid 234]

No real advantages? What? Skills can get a bonus from: race, specialization, majors/minors, and birthsigns. They are also governed by attributes.

And no limitations? You're class, custom or otherwise, along with everything else you chose in character creation, can limit you. A Mage can't just go toe-to-toe with a warrior without some serious magic. You have to have skills for armor to even work, and you can have the best weapon in the game, but you can't hit jack shit with it if you have a low weapon skill. Without security and/or sneak, there's a lot of cool stuff you miss out on early game because you can't fight your way through what's guarding it until higher levels.

 

I honestly have no idea where younger the idea that Morrowind has no limitations or advantages. Just because you CAN do everything doesn't mean it's all even remotely viable.

 

 

 

 

With attributes gone, that pretty much halves the distinction between races (although IIRC altmer start with extra magicka). And Skyrim races don't even have weaknesses, just strengths. Without classes and major/minor skills, you don't have to choose anything to focus on because skill leveling isn't biased. Birthsigns are yet another layer of customization taken away. A birthsign could change you're entire style of play in Morrowind, and now we don't even have those. I will admit, perks are nice, but I'm sorry, perk trees just don't replace the customization of Morrowind.

 

And actually, yeah, in this case more numbers = more depth. More skills means more things have their own skill, meaning you can do A well, but not B, whereas in Skyrim, A and B are the same thing. Because obviously, all one-handed weapons are used exactly the same way (for example). Using a dagger is exactly the same as using a mace or a broadsword. Yeah, mm-hm, plenty of depth there.

 

It's just this new generation of gamers who don't want to have to think, so everything gets toned down and made really easy for them. Under the guide of streamlining, of course. This isn't directed at you, Tdroid, by the way.

 

You bring up some good points, but you make one flawed assumption and that is that the player is not rewarded by doing everything, which is ultimately the downflall of this argument everytime I see it discussed. The game rewards a player who plays outside of the chosen skills more than a player who doesn't, and with the upper cap of the attributes the players will be pushed further and further towards a generic character by each level. They may start out pretty specialized, but that chanegs after the first ten levels or so.

 

Doing everything is, in fact, very viable in Morrowind(your example use so I use this) and ultimately the reason for this is the attribute system. Every attribute, with the exception of Intelligence, is universially useful for any given character no matter what class they have and Intelligence itself is useful for all characters that have magic based skills, which can be said to be about 1/3 to about 1/2 of the possibilities. The fact that skills is primarily determined by sheer number doesn't help the case either.

 

Would having a different starting value for different races add more depth to them? Yes, in Skyrim it would and that is because stat increases are much more limited. However, this argument also comes back to the attribute system used in TES3 which is ultimately flawed and lacking. All the racial and class stats are ultimately superficial and are not going to make much difference past the ten first levels. The same goes with the skills, it all comes down to a superficial belief, or an illusion if you will, that these things matters.

At the end of the day there are two things that matter in Morrowind when it comes to the character creator and that is the racial abilities and it is the birthsign. The rest will start out seemingly very different, but ultimately turn out in a very generic way.

Skyrim starts you out with a rather generic stat list, but pushes you further and further towards specialization.

 

The downfall of the depth in Morrowind's(and Oblivion's for that matter, being the same) character system is that it can look very deep, but if you put scrutiny to it, it turns out to be quite shallow. Is Skyrim much better in this regard? No, but at least every decision made when you level up will stay with your character and cannot be "fixed", and that it goes further and further away from a bland set up instead of closer to it.

You can try to argue that you personally have restrictions on how you play, but that ultimately serves my side of the argument more than yours since it will make a statement that the system itself pushes you towards a generic character.

And as a sidenote I could mention that even with 2 melee skills in Skyrim the weapons have more differences, because in Morrowind the weapon skill were the same weapons with a different paintjob. In Skyrim it is that + the option to get a bonus for using a specific weapon.

 

Btw: I don't take such statements about new generation gamers personally, I learned a long time ago on the Bethesda Forums(where this have been discussed to death a few times over) that this type of arguing is nothing more than trying to discredit the other side by affiliating them with "casual" gamers, which ultimately serves no purpose and, when used against people who know the tactic, it just makes your overal argument look a lot more based in Nostalgia and a sense of elitism than anything else.

 

Edit: Just to clarify, I am not telling anyone to think Skyrim is a better game than Morrowind or Oblivion because that is ultimately a subjective thing. i am only arguing about the objective facts of the games.

 

Edit2: Yes, I know I say "ultimately" a lot in this post

Edited August 30, 2012 by Tdroid

[Squeaker101 50]

I've never played Morrowwind, though I've heard a lot of positive feedback. I'll be sure to try it out asap.

 

I've only played a minimum amount of Oblivion, so I can't really comment on that either.

 

Skyrim? That I can. Skyrim is veeeeery easy to get lost in. I've spent weeks playing this one game, and will spend more time no doubt. So far my favortie race is the Orc, or Orsimer, with the Khajit following behind. I find the game to be much easier when you have a warrior build, though I hear Mage has it easy too. My favorite is a thief build though, naturally the Thieves Guild is my favorite quest.

 

Playing Skyrim makes me wanna play the other games, my only concern is the graphics. Having played Skyrim, I'll probably get bored of the older graphics. It's one of the main reasons I haven't dived into Oblivion.

[Tdroid 234]

I've never played Morrowwind, though I've heard a lot of positive feedback. I'll be sure to try it out asap.

 

I've only played a minimum amount of Oblivion, so I can't really comment on that either.

 

Skyrim? That I can. Skyrim is veeeeery easy to get lost in. I've spent weeks playing this one game, and will spend more time no doubt. So far my favortie race is the Orc, or Orsimer, with the Khajit following behind. I find the game to be much easier when you have a warrior build, though I hear Mage has it easy too. My favorite is a thief build though, naturally the Thieves Guild is my favorite quest.

 

Playing Skyrim makes me wanna play the other games, my only concern is the graphics. Having played Skyrim, I'll probably get bored of the older graphics. It's one of the main reasons I haven't dived into Oblivion.

 

If you are playing on PC there are plenty of mods that can fix that for you. If not, then I still recomend that you take a closer look at the games. The environment in both Morrowind and Oblivion are very good, even now, though the characters themselves have improved a lot. It will take a little to to get used to, but after a few hours Morrowind will look quite beautiful even Vanilla.

[Laydee Kaze 399]

Topic change~

 

What does everyone's current character look like? [Going off the last game/save you played?]

 

This one is mine :3 Screenshot is a little outdated, but meh. Still shows off her face and that. She's a Wood Elf, called Kaze ;D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Raritas 6,820]

I LOVE skyrim, however I believe It has become way to popular. I liked the others because they won't to popular, Well, I have only played Oblivion, skyrim and about an hour of morrowind but still! I just wish I could play Skyrim on PC! Stupid Intel HD Graphics

[PonyEcho 1,610]

well i have notice that each ES game feels like it been cut down because Daggerfall was huge and still the best elderscrolls game never mind rpg, i never played Morrowind , and loved Oblivion.

 

Skyrim is a mixed bag because it feel like Fallout 3 re-skinned but less it copies the perk system, lock picking, talking, ect and each one feels dumbed down the Perks system lack the impact of the choices you make and lock picking.... is the same as fall out 3.

 

also i went though most of the game on the hardest setting and didnt have to drink one health potion, is the Dovakin an relative to deadpool or something.

 

also this is a big issue i have with Skyrim, the fact that PC gamers seem to thing that mods solve everything when rely your just slaves fixing the game for Bethesda

[shotoku 47]

So here's one thing I rather liked about Skyrim, and that is the automatic regeneration of health and magic. Now don't scrutinize me for liking my games "easy", but I find the auto regeneration makes the game a lot better than Daggerfall where you had to do an extended rest after pretty much every battle. I personally don't see much of a difference from sitting and regenerating your health for free than being able to keep adventuring while your character heals. The same downside goes with Morrowind from what I remember.

 

So in that respect I also like Skyrim better because in TES 2&3 a magic-based character is almost unplayable because you run out of magic too quickly and spend too much time resting to get it back. Skyrim, you still have to wait, but I'd rather be able to make progress instead of taking and extended rest constantly.

 

Anybody else feel the same way? Also don't give me the bull where I just like things being easier, I think it actually makes the game more fun because you don't have to spend time resting and you can use magic much easier. Also Daggerfall is currently my favorite game I own (I don't have Skyrim anymore), if that shows you I don't need things easier to appreciate them.

Edited August 30, 2012 by shotoku

[Flying Whales 311]

Does anyone know of any news about the Elder Scrolls MMO that Bethesda is going to put out? I remember hearing some talk about it but I haven’t seen really anything for it.

[Evilshy 5,089]

 

You bring up some good points, but you make one flawed assumption and that is that the player is not rewarded by doing everything, which is ultimately the downflall of this argument everytime I see it discussed. The game rewards a player who plays outside of the chosen skills more than a player who doesn't, and with the upper cap of the attributes the players will be pushed further and further towards a generic character by each level. They may start out pretty specialized, but that chanegs after the first ten levels or so.

 

Doing everything is, in fact, very viable in Morrowind(your example use so I use this) and ultimately the reason for this is the attribute system. Every attribute, with the exception of Intelligence, is universially useful for any given character no matter what class they have and Intelligence itself is useful for all characters that have magic based skills, which can be said to be about 1/3 to about 1/2 of the possibilities. The fact that skills is primarily determined by sheer number doesn't help the case either.

 

Would having a different starting value for different races add more depth to them? Yes, in Skyrim it would and that is because stat increases are much more limited. However, this argument also comes back to the attribute system used in TES3 which is ultimately flawed and lacking. All the racial and class stats are ultimately superficial and are not going to make much difference past the ten first levels. The same goes with the skills, it all comes down to a superficial belief, or an illusion if you will, that these things matters.

At the end of the day there are two things that matter in Morrowind when it comes to the character creator and that is the racial abilities and it is the birthsign. The rest will start out seemingly very different, but ultimately turn out in a very generic way.

Skyrim starts you out with a rather generic stat list, but pushes you further and further towards specialization.

 

The downfall of the depth in Morrowind's(and Oblivion's for that matter, being the same) character system is that it can look very deep, but if you put scrutiny to it, it turns out to be quite shallow. Is Skyrim much better in this regard? No, but at least every decision made when you level up will stay with your character and cannot be "fixed", and that it goes further and further away from a bland set up instead of closer to it.

You can try to argue that you personally have restrictions on how you play, but that ultimately serves my side of the argument more than yours since it will make a statement that the system itself pushes you towards a generic character.

And as a sidenote I could mention that even with 2 melee skills in Skyrim the weapons have more differences, because in Morrowind the weapon skill were the same weapons with a different paintjob. In Skyrim it is that + the option to get a bonus for using a specific weapon.

 

Okay, most of this I can agree with. I guess that yes, you can do everything with enough money/patience, but it's still a more true-to-form RPG, so role playing is still a pretty big part. So yes, you can get a lot more generic as you reach higher levels, but self imposed restrictions are a big part. Hell, the introduction to the manual implies that actually playing a role is intended.

So I apologize for being rude about that. I guess I misunderstood you on that.

 

I would, however, like to point out things about the weapons. Yes, a lot of weapons are similar, but the greater variety means they can also be governed by a greater variety of attributes. A tanky Mage running Willpower and Endurance so they can use powerful magic and heavy armor can still use spears effectively, since they're governed by endurance. A speed character can still fuck things up with hand-to-hand (actually, right now I'm playing a sexy dunmer chick who doesn't wear much and looks harmless... Until she beats you to death with her bare hands. Funnest character I've played in awhile ). Agility gets light blade.

I guess that without perks trees for each one, there isn't as much difference in what they do, though, just who can use them well. Perks would be pretty awesome in Morrowind. Maybe I can find a mod for that. I have a feeling they'd be overpowered, though, so we'd also need a damage reduction across the board, or something similar... Eh, just thinking out loud here.

 

But the one thing I love in Skyrim that inreally wish were even possible in Morrowind is the left/right hands thing. I really wish I could equip whatever I wanted in either hand. Even with mods, I don't think that's possible, we'd have to make direct changes to the game engine :/

 

Also, Oblivion and Skyrim don't have spellmaking, which means they are forever dead to me not as cool.

 

So here's one thing I rather liked about Skyrim, and that is the automatic regeneration of health and magic. Now don't scrutinize me for liking my games "easy", but I find the auto regeneration makes the game a lot better than Daggerfall where you had to do an extended rest after pretty much every battle. I personally don't see much of a difference from sitting and regenerating your health for free than being able to keep adventuring while your character heals. The same downside goes with Morrowind from what I remember.

 

So in that respect I also like Skyrim better because in TES 2&3 a magic-based character is almost unplayable because you run out of magic too quickly and spend too much time resting to get it back. Skyrim, you still have to wait, but I'd rather be able to make progress instead of taking and extended rest constantly.

 

Anybody else feel the same way? Also don't give me the bull where I just like things being easier, I think it actually makes the game more fun because you don't have to spend time resting and you can use magic much easier. Also Daggerfall is currently my favorite game I own (I don't have Skyrim anymore), if that shows you I don't need things easier to appreciate them.

 

 

That's what potions are for. And yeah, mages are a bitch to play early game, but once you're higher level, you destroy everything like it's nothing. And I actually really dislike health regen. It takes out the sense of urgency, you don't have to commit to a battle. Just run away and regen health until you can jump back into the fight. In Morrowind, you have to be damn sure that everything is safe before you sleep to regain health. Or just bring potions with you.

 

I do dislike that Morrowind doesn't have magicka regen, and I use a mod that gives it to me. It's slow, but it's good enough for me.

[AnonBrony 1,467]

Does anyone know of any news about the Elder Scrolls MMO that Bethesda is going to put out? I remember hearing some talk about it but I haven’t seen really anything for it.

 

I Hear its gonna be fricken amazing. imo lol. But other than the stuff they showed at E3 back in June, i havn't heard much from it either.

I wouldn't know what faction to choose though. Except i'm not choosing The Aldmeri... damn Elfs...

[Tdroid 234]

Also, Oblivion and Skyrim don't have spellmaking, which means they are forever dead to me not as cool.

 

Actuallly, Oblivion have spellmaking, you just have to gain access to the Arcane University or have the Wizards Tower DLC to use it. Agree that it is sad that it isn't there in Skyrim

 

.

So I apologize for being rude about that. I guess I misunderstood you on that.

 

No problem, I have been in enough of these debates to know not to take what said seriously, but to calmly dismis the arguments at hand instead. But to be honest, I hadn't expected any conscent at all, so I was pleasantly surprised

[HecateSix 45]

Never played any except for Skyrim, which in my opinion is amazing, so if was Oblivion was ten times better, HOW GOOD IS MORROWIND?!

 

Also, who likes the Falmer?

[Tdroid 234]

Never played any except for Skyrim, which in my opinion is amazing, so if was Oblivion was ten times better, HOW GOOD IS MORROWIND?!

 

Also, who likes the Falmer?

 

Which game is better is based entirely on opinion,so don't go into these games expecting them to be 10 times better because you might not perceive them that way. Just a friendly warning in a hopes of protecting you from disappointment

 

I think the Falmer are rather interesting, but I had hoped they were a bit more uncommon. For thousands of years nobody have seen anything of them, then suddenly they appear everywhere?