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Celestial Family paradox ;-)


SasQ
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I've just found something difficult to understand:

 

Luna and Celestia are the two regal sisters, right?

We don't know about any other siblings of theirs being mentioned in the original show, right?

 

So who is this prince Blueblood, which is called Celestia's nephew anyway? blink.png

 

I mean, if he is Celestia's nephew, then a nephew, by definition, is supposed to be a son of her sister. But there's only one sister we know of, and this is princess Luna. But this simply doesn't add up: Luna seems rather young (as for an Alicorn, since she's at least 1000 years old after all). And she doesn't seem to have any husband or a colt who could be the father of prince Blueblood.

 

Moreover, prince Blueblood doesn't have wings. He's not an Alicorn, but a Unicorn! :-P

Although I once speculated that Unicorns and Pegasi could be a product of Alicorns making couples with Earth Ponies and having babies with them (which caused some of these babies to be born without wings or without horns, as an effect of mixing their genes), still it doesn't explain the prince Blueblood's true origins.

 

Could anyone explain this mystery to me? Or is it just "Hasbro's Magic"? :-P

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I've just found something difficult to understand:

 

Luna and Celestia are the two regal sisters, right?

We don't know about any other siblings of theirs being mentioned in the original show, right?

 

So who is this prince Blueblood, which is called Celestia's nephew anyway? img-1337417-1-blink.png

 

I mean, if he is Celestia's nephew, then a nephew, by definition, is supposed to be a son of her sister. But there's only one sister we know of, and this is princess Luna. But this simply doesn't add up: Luna seems rather young (as for an Alicorn, since she's at least 1000 years old after all). And she doesn't seem to have any husband or a colt who could be the father of prince Blueblood.

 

Moreover, prince Blueblood doesn't have wings. He's not an Alicorn, but a Unicorn! :-P

Although I once speculated that Unicorns and Pegasi could be a product of Alicorns making couples with Earth Ponies and having babies with them (which caused some of these babies to be born without wings or without horns, as an effect of mixing their genes), still it doesn't explain the prince Blueblood's true origins.

 

Could anyone explain this mystery to me? Or is it just "Hasbro's Magic"? :-P

If I remember correctly, Blueblood is just BARELY royal at all. He's like Princess Celestia's 52nd Nephew, he's so distantly related he could probably marry Celestia if he wanted to.

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Yes, I see his manners. But what wonders me is not the manners, but family relations (bloodlines). That is, how is he actually related to Luna & Celestia to be called Celestia's nephew. Because if he's not Luna's child, then there should be some other regal sisters beyond Luna & Celestia I guess, and I wonder who they could be and where are they now.

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By Celestia you're right. I knew there was something dodgy about her family! I believe something to do with conspiracies, though if I were you I'd run for the Everfree forest as I'm sure Celestia will be sending the royal guard after you...

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Hmm... This kinda goes along with a theory of mine... My theory is that colts cannot become alicorns... I think this is why Shining Armor, Blueblood and Sombra are unicorns, not alicorns, despite their royalty... 

 

Maybe Blueblood is adopted? Celestia and Luna probably made up the 52nd Nephew thing in order to distance themselves from him due to his manners...

 

Or perhaps there is a third sibling that we haven't been shown yet? 

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(edited)

We have two explanations. First, sloppy writing, which I find to be a very unhelpful way to explain it. The second and better way requires an analogy. You may know somebody in your life that you call "aunt" or "uncle", but who are not in anyway way related to you. I know I do. It's more a title of respect and a way to show respect for your parents best friend for example. Rather than Mr. or Mrs. you say aunt or uncle.

 

Now how does this relate to the topic? Well apparently Cadence and Blueblood were "adopted" by Celestia and it's likely that the writers felt that making them her children was too complex, so they opted for niece and nephew. It also may be somewhat honorary like I described above. The other thing I heard is that Blueblood was supposed to be a Duke, but it was felt that the demographic would not understand that title.

Edited by Nature Spell
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(edited)

I'm not sure where to head with this but giveing the way MMC was written I now suspect that royalty isn't about bloodlines but more magic lineage. This line need not be passed on by Celestial or Luna directly.

 

I know I'm going out on a limb here but maybe Blueblood and Cadence may just be a part of that line but not directly related. But because of that line of magic transference they are referred as royal relations

 

This would also explain why Twilight is now a princess without being born into royality.

Edited by Argumedies
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(edited)

The other thought I had is that Blueblood is just a deadend character. Where is it mentioned that he is a prince and Celestia's nephew? I can't seem to remember.

Edited by Nature Spell
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EVERYTHING IS HASBRO MAGIC

 

This is really just speculation, but here it goes.

 

What I think is that Equestria isn't the name of the entire world. On deviantART, ~hlissner made a map of Equestria "and beyond" and you can see it here (it's way too huge to put it in the post).

 

My guess would be that there are different rulers for each country. As Celestia, Luna, and Twilight rule Equestria, another set of rulers look over Gildedale or Germaneigh, not necessarily only princesses. Possibly kings, queens, princes and princesses.

 

As for Blueblood being the nephew of Celestia, it doesn't have to be the son of Luna. Celestia could be the sister of other rulers from other countries. Of course, if he has multiple aunts or uncles, he chooses the ruler of whatever country he's in for other ponies to love him. He is a hell of a snob.

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(edited)

I have a theory... big surprise there, innit?

 

If we allow for the Crystal Spell book to be canon, which I have been told it is, then we have two cases of becoming an alicorn automatically making you a princess (Twilight & Cadence). We are aware of one other alicorn in-cannon, the unnamed princess who was the victim of the love poison in Hearts and Hooves Day.

 

From this we can infer that this alicoronation does happen often enough for there to be others that we are unaware of so far. Therefore there may have been several princesses (and perhaps princes) made in this manner. All it has to be is rare enough that the common pony doesn't realize the process (as per Rarity's reaction to Twilight being alicorned.)

 

Cadence was been referred to as Celestia's niece after her alicoronation, but apparently not before. We don't know this for sure, of course, but that implies that becoming a princess also automatically makes you a niece (or nephew) of Celestia. This harkens back to old European nobility that tended to call each other cousin, even if there was no blood shared, in order to cement their noble status via fictional relationships.

 

In which case, it is very likely that Blueblood is the child of a previous unknown alicorn and has either inherited the Prince title or is assuming it out of arrogance (likely the latter), and is claiming that as all Princes/Princesses are nieces/nephews of Celestia he is by extension as well.

Edited by Fhaolan
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Where did the 52nd nephew number come from? If that's accurate, then he actually could be a descendent of Luna from 1000 years ago, with an average of about 20 years per generation which seems reasonable by human standards (real horses would have much more closely spaced generations).

 

But I'd say more likely that he's some variety of adopted royalty like Cadence and Twilight. In fact, he could be interpreted as evidence that ascended alicorns are not immortal, if he's the son or grandson of an alicorn who isn't around anymore (someone else mentioned the alicorn in the love poison book, which is yet more evidence since she's not around regardless of having any relation to Blueblood... but I want Twilight and Celestia to be together forever sad.png)

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I have a theory... big surprise there, innit?

 

If we allow for the Crystal Spell book to be canon, which I have been told it is, then we have two cases of becoming an alicorn automatically making you a princess (Twilight & Cadence). We are aware of one other alicorn in-cannon, the unnamed princess who was the victim of the love poison in Hearts and Hooves Day.

 

From this we can infer that this alicoronation does happen often enough for there to be others that we are unaware of so far. Therefore there may have been several princesses (and perhaps princes) made in this manner. All it has to be is rare enough that the common pony doesn't realize the process (as per Rarity's reaction to Twilight being alicorned.)

 

Cadence was been referred to as Celestia's niece after her alicoronation, but apparently not before. We don't know this for sure, of course, but that implies that becoming a princess also automatically makes you a niece (or nephew) of Celestia. This harkens back to old European nobility that tended to call each other cousin, even if there was no blood shared, in order to cement their noble status via fictional relationships.

 

In which case, it is very likely that Blueblood is the child of a previous unknown alicorn and has either inherited the Prince title or is assuming it out of arrogance (likely the latter), and is claiming that as all Princes/Princesses are nieces/nephews of Celestia he is by extension as well.

The book basically states that Cadence is Celestia's adopted niece. Cadence and Celestia first met in the "strange place" where her alicorn transformation took place. I'm pretty sure Blueblood never states that he is related to Celestia. Rarity just assumes he's her nephew. It could totally be a case of mistaken identity. The only thing we know for sure is that he's a prince.

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(edited)

Hmm... This kinda goes along with a theory of mine... My theory is that colts cannot become alicorns...

 

If a Unicorn could become an Alicorn, then nothing is impossible anymore... :-|

Have you something to support your theory though?

 

I think this is why Shining Armor, Blueblood and Sombra are unicorns, not alicorns, despite their royalty...

 

I thought that they're Unicorns simply because they were born to be so ;-J

But who knows... If we have tribenders in Equestria, then we should probably expect gender benders in Season 4 ;-P

Anyway, back to the subject (because Twilicorn & stuff like that is too hard for me).

 

Maybe Blueblood is adopted?

 

Sounds very plausible.

 

Celestia and Luna probably made up the 52nd Nephew thing in order to distance themselves from him due to his manners...

 

Yeah, I'd do the same ;-)

 

As for Blueblood being the nephew of Celestia, it doesn't have to be the son of Luna. Celestia could be the sister of other rulers from other countries.

 

and

 

Or perhaps there is a third sibling that we haven't been shown yet?

 

Now that would be a twist. Although interesting, it would contradict the canon from Season 1 about two regal sisters representing the Yin/Yang balanced opposites (so it's quite likely to come if Hasbro will keep up their trend ;-P ).

 

You forgot to mention how Luna was away on the moon.

 

I didn't forget, I just didn't mention it ;-) But I referred to her millennial age in my original post.

 

So she couldnt even bare a child at that point.

 

You might be right that she couldn't. (It depends on what she could do when being imprisoned on the Moon.) And she doesn't look that old & mature ;-) Maybe in later episodes, yes, but not in 2nd one where she's Celestia's "little sister" and definitely appears so in the ending scenes.

 

And lets not forget about Cadence -- who is supposed to be her niece.

 

Good point.

 

We have two explanations. First, sloppy writing, which I find to be a very unhelpful way to explain it.

 

Yes. This is what I called "Hasbro's Magic". It's the most plausible explanation regarding the circumstances (e.g. many writers working independently etc.). But if this is the case, we can always do better and find some better explanations which they're lacking.

 

The second and better way requires an analogy. You may know somebody in your life that you call "aunt" or "uncle", but who are not in anyway way related to you. I know I do. It's more a title of respect and a way to show respect for your parents best friend for example. Rather than Mr. or Mrs. you say aunt or uncle.

 

You're right, this is another possible (and plausible) explanation. I'm myself an uncle for some relatives at my age, and I have several "aunts" which are just friends of the family. It's a bit harder to call someone a "nephew" from such reasons, but maybe this is the way to go, if, let's suppose, Celestia or Luna has some royal friend (not related to her by the bloodline), so she calls this friend's son her "nephew". Quite possible I guess.

 

Now how does this relate to the topic? Well apparently Cadence and Blueblood were "adopted" by Celestia and it's likely that the writers felt that making them her children was too complex, so they opted for niece and nephew. It also may be somewhat honorary like I described above.

 

OK, two explanations in these lines so far, and it sounds good to me.

(Oh dear Celestia, what are you, an orphanage? ;-) )

 

The other thing I heard is that Blueblood was supposed to be a Duke, but it was felt that the demographic would not understand that title.

 

Yeah... I haven't seen anyone noticing anything strange about Duke Nukem too ;-)

 

This would also explain why Twilight is now a princess without being born into royality.

 

Well, I'm not so concerned about royality stuff, as about family relationships & bloodlines. I'm aware that "prince" could be also a title, not necessary a bloodline. One can become a prince by joining the royal family or just being entitled as such by other royal entities.

 

(BTW is it "royality" or "royalty"? My spell checker underlines the former in red.)

 

The other thought I had is that Blueblood is just a deadend character. Where is it mentioned that he is a prince and Celestia's nephew? I can't seem to remember.

 

Season 1, Episode 3 "The Ticket Master", 7:45, for example.

 

(lol, I feel like one of these Jehova Witnesses quoting the Bible ;-) )

 

What I think is that Equestria isn't the name of the entire world.

 

I share this view too. Equestria is more like a country, or a federation of the three "tribes" which came to the same land to settle (see "Hearth's Warming Eve"). But ponies are sort of like stereotypical Americans in this manner: they consider their country to be the whole world ;-)

Moreover, the Everfree Forest is sometimes considered not to be a part of Equestria (e.g. Season 1, Episode 2, 3:50, where Applejack says that "folks say that it don't work the same as in Equestria").

But this is off-topic.

 

He is a hell of a snob

 

Oh she so much is! ;-)

 

If we allow for the Crystal Spell book to be canon, which I have been told it is

 

What Crystal Spell book do you mean?

 

then we have two cases of becoming an alicorn automatically making you a princess (Twilight & Cadence).

 

Wasn't Cadence always an Alicorn? (i.e. Season 2, Episode 25 "The Canterlot Wedding", 9:23, we see her being an Alicorn already, when she's a foal-sitter for little Twilight).

 

We are aware of one other alicorn in-cannon, the unnamed princess who was the victim of the love poison in Hearts and Hooves Day.

 

Hmm... I missed this detail. I'll to check it out now...

 

From this we can infer that this alicoronation does happen often enough for there to be others that we are unaware of so far. Therefore there may have been several princesses (and perhaps princes) made in this manner.

 

and

 

In fact, he could be interpreted as evidence that ascended alicorns are not immortal

 

Yeah, the only problem is that prince Blueblood is not an Alicorn at all. He's a Unicorn ;-)

 

Cadence was been referred to as Celestia's niece after her alicoronation, but apparently not before.

 

Interesting. I need to check that too.

 

We don't know this for sure, of course, but that implies that becoming a princess also automatically makes you a niece (or nephew) of Celestia. This harkens back to old European nobility that tended to call each other cousin, even if there was no blood shared, in order to cement their noble status via fictional relationships.   In which case, it is very likely that Blueblood is the child of a previous unknown alicorn and has either inherited the Prince title or is assuming it out of arrogance (likely the latter), and is claiming that as all Princes/Princesses are nieces/nephews of Celestia he is by extension as well.

 

This all seems very plausible.

 

Where did the 52nd nephew number come from?

 

I second that question. As you probably know, I'm working on reverse-engineering the canon too, so any such details and their sources are precious to me.

 

But I'd say more likely that he's some variety of adopted royalty like Cadence and Twilight.

 

Yes, this theory seems the most plausible for me.

 

but I want Twilight and Celestia to be together forever

 

Don't worry. If she will study Unicorn Magic as studious as to this time, she should ultimately find such a spell. Recall the Alicorn Amulet and its capabilities. What do you think: what makes Alicorns immortal after all? ;-) And one more thing I'll send you in my next private message.

 

Edit:

Yeah, I'm a cupcake now! ;-) Time to celebrate and make some, I guess, as when I was a muffin. Bon apetit :-)

 

img-1338976-1-Muffins05.jpg

 

If only I knew where to find such delicious nutricious blue sapphires to decorate them? ;-J I need to ask Spike...

Edited by SasQ
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What Crystal Spell book do you mean?

 

A mlp novel that was released tuesday called "Twilight Sparkle and the Crystal Heart Spell." It involves alicorn twilight asking cadence for princess advice basically. In the process we learn Cadence's backstory. She was an orphaned pegasus that was found and raised by a village of earth ponies. Some evil unicorn named Prismia tried to cast a spell to sap the love out of the village but cadence stopped and reformed her. Thats when cadence became an alicorn.

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The support to my male alicorn theory is simple... I don't think prince alicorns will exist because Hasbro won't allow it.. I don't think that male alicorns (or male anything in that matter) would be very popular among Hasbro's target demographic... In the eyes of a little girl, princess are cool and the guy is supposed to save the princess, not be the princess.. 

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The support to my male alicorn theory is simple... I don't think prince alicorns will exist because Hasbro won't allow it.. I don't think that male alicorns (or male anything in that matter) would be very popular among Hasbro's target demographic... In the eyes of a little girl, princess are cool and the guy is supposed to save the princess, not be the princess..

That's why there are only evil kings and queens and not good ones. Lauren Faust wanted Celestia to be a queen and stay away from "princess" due to her disliking the stereotypical princess.

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That's why there are only evil kings and queens and not good ones. Lauren Faust wanted Celestia to be a queen and stay away from "princess" due to her disliking the stereotypical princess.

True... It would be nice if there were a princess that got rid of this stereotype... Perhaps MLP will do that? I know that in season 4 there are plans to make a disabled pony... 

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You forgot to mention how Luna was away on the moon. So she couldnt even bare a child at that point.

 

And lets not forget about Cadence -- who is supposed to be her niece.

 

yes, that too! my brother pointed this out about a month ago and it totally puzzled me. who is Cadence related to and how?! i have tried to research this myself and found nothing in the epidsodes or wiki(s) to confirm anthing about it.

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yes, that too! my brother pointed this out about a month ago and it totally puzzled me. who is Cadence related to and how?! i have tried to research this myself and found nothing in the epidsodes or wiki(s) to confirm anthing about it.

Check the MLP Cadence Wiki... I believe her back story is there.... laugh.png I believe there is a book about her back story as well.. 

 

Yes it is! Check the link!! http://mlp.wikia.com/wiki/Princess_Cadance biggrin.png

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(edited)

 

yes, that too! my brother pointed this out about a month ago and it totally puzzled me. who is Cadence related to and how?! i have tried to research this myself and found nothing in the epidsodes or wiki(s) to confirm anthing about it.

It was never discussed in show canon, but the new book "Twilight Sparkle and the Crystal Heart Spell" has her being an orphan and raised by Earth ponies. Since it's authorized I'd take it to be canon.

Edited by Nature Spell
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(edited)

 

True... It would be nice if there were a princess that got rid of this stereotype... Perhaps MLP will do that? I know that in season 4 there are plans to make a disabled pony...

Maybe it will happen. I think the ones in the series are good role models and to be honest most of the new Disney Princess aren't bad ones either. Disabled? Scotaloo? I hope not her bgut the concept is OK.

Edited by Nature Spell
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Maybe it will happen. I think the ones in the series are good role models and to be honest most of the new Disney Princess aren't bad ones either. Disabled? Scotaloo? I hope not her bgut the concept is OK.

Might be Scootaloo.. Might not... The writers didn't say who the disabled one wold be... Personally I don't want it to be Scootaloo... I'm actually hoping they bring in a new character who will later on join the CMC... Yeah... Disney princess are ok, but there are just too many of them... I do think the MLP princess have a bit more dimension to them than the normal princess... I guess I'm just hoping for a princess like Toph from Avatar... (The cartoon Avatar... not the movie). 

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Here's a better paradox that I came up with yesterday.

So, there's a bird feeder. This bird feeder has birds inside it, which are constantly being fed by the bird feeder. How this happens is, the bird feeder turns them into cannibals. Therefore, there can only ever be one bird in the feeder, which is being fed to the only bird in the feeder!

 

Does that make sense to anyone?

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