Is Twilight Sparkle A Murderer In "Too Many Pinkie Pies?"

[Winona the Dog 1,981]

Ok so you may be reading this topic and immediately thing "NO WAY!" But just hear me out. This is the first time I'm going to go deeper within a MLP episode and I for one think Too Many Pinkie Pies is by far one of the darkest MLP episodes ever made.

In the episode, we briefly got to know Pinkie's first clone. In those few minutes, after her first initial bursts of "fun! fun! fun!", she clearly displayed her ability of rational thought and emotion. Just re-look at this scene and tell me you don't feel sorry for her.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The only thing Pinkie's clones clearly lacked was life-experience. Running around, breaking things and causing havoc ... They simply didn't know any better.




..the episode ended with Twilight blasting about 40 completely innocent ponies to Luna-knows-where. Not out of malicious intent, or an out-of-character behavior, but because she and everypony else was too focused on solving a "problem", and apparently did not even treat them as actual ponies, as seen when Dash just dumped the "original" Pinkie into the others.


They treated her along with the rest of her clones as mindless drones (is that really how they see Pinkie Pie anyway? A mindless pony?)


I know, the episode stated she was going to "send them back" to the Mirror Pond, but that's not what it looked like when watching those poor Pinkies violently exploding by the dozen, and what does "sending them back" even actually mean?

(Looks to me that Twilight meant "sending them back" seems a bit misinterpreted.)

It's not like they even existed before Pinkie went to the pond and spoke the lines "[...] solemnly sweared not to be scared, at the prospect of being doubly mared!"
Banishment as the best-case scenario. And then, what it's even like on "the other side"? What are the living conditions? How much space is there, even? So they're not only banished to the other side of a mirror, but imprisoned in a cave in the place they've been banished to?

Geez, talk about Twilight being a hypocrite.

...well, that's what I'd say if Twilight had any idea about what she had even done here at all. Which she doesn't. Heck, nopony even thought about it.

Instead, everypony in town - including Rarity and Fluttershy (!!) - literally crowded on Twilight right in front of the library, demanding her to deal with the crisis despite her not being responsible.
Twilight, under pressure and too focused on "solving the problem", doesn't give it a second thought what she's actually dealing with... and ZAP, ZAP, ZAAAP.

(Damn! Even Fluttershy is pissed!)

(The problem is "solved")

Literally, that was the darkest ending to an episode I've ever seen.
And that says a lot for an episode with +40 happily bouncing pink ponies.

I mean, I was literally sitting there at the end of the episode thinking to myself "... yeah, Pinkie learned a valuable lesson about friendship, that's nice, but I want to know WHAT THE HAY HAPPENED TO THE THREE DOZEN INNOCENT PONIES THAT TWILIGHT JUST ZAPPED?!"

(The real Pinkie you knew and loved is gone forever!)

Edited June 4, 2013 by Lady Rainicorn

[Dzastur 1,719]

I see you point. Myself, I'd like to think getting "sent back" means they're actually back in that pond - or their spirits are - and that the rock placed on the hole was meant to keep ponies from getting in...and out.

 

And, of course, once the inevitable ( ) My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, The Movie comes to pass, we'll see them again at the end:

 

Princess Celestia: "The Changelings are on their way, and there'll be too many of them. We'll be overrun!"

 

The other Mane 5: "Twilight, you've got to think of something!"

 

Princess Twilight: "We need numbers, and I can only think of one option. I don't even want to suggest it, but we have no choice..." (whispers to Applejack)

 

Applejack: "Oh no...not that. There's gotta be another way."

 

Princess Twilight: "I can't think of anything else. We have to." (Twilight whispers the solution to everyone else.)

 

Pinkie Pie: "What? What is it?"

 

*they stare at her*

 

Pinkie Pie: "Oh.....OH. You mean...`fun'?"

 

Princess Twilight: *stern nod* "Yes Pinkie, lots and lots of `fun'. Princess Celestia, we're going to assemble an army - a pink army."

[DiscordAnarchy 770]

I agree with your assesment that Twilight is a murderer. She has no qualms in hurting other critters (such as using a bird as her personal buzz horn to get others attentions) nor does she care about altering a critter's natural instincts (making the Parasprites stop eating natural food with her black magic)

[tehepicpony 22]

Yeah, I do think that screwed up, Frick twilight, YOU HAD ONE JOB, GOD DANGIT. Now, i can understand dash dumping a pinke pie into a bunch, she didn't know she was the real one (Even though she most likely isn't) You know what would have been better twi? I FRICKNG TEST, They didn't know the names of the mane 6, YOU THINK THAT WOULD HELP. So, If twi was SMART, then this could have been sloved though the power of FRICKING FRIENDSHIP. I understand, yes you can't have 40 pinke pies, but DON'T KILL THEM, THEY HAVE LIVES. (Besides the one that made the g3 face, that one should have died.) ONE MORE GOOD THING, WOULD BE TO ZAP THE PINKE THAT DIDN'T WATCH THE PANIT DRY, PINKE WOULD'T BE ABLE TO HANDLE THAT NO MATTER WHAT.

[Katella Avenue 28]

I agree with your assesment that Twilight is a murderer. She has no qualms in hurting other critters (such as using a bird as her personal buzz horn to get others attentions) nor does she care about altering a critter's natural instincts (making the Parasprites stop eating natural food with her black magic)

 

I feel that the problem with thinking like this is that we as humans don't have something as powerful as magic to deal with. If you think about it, the mage unicorns in Equestria would all have a similar mindset. They have to experiment, sometimes on live subjects to make their magic work. Either magicians as a whole are coldhearted or this is just part of the practice, like how science uses animals to an end.

[Princess Periwinkle 3,774]

(making the Parasprites stop eating natural food with her black magic)

She didn't use black magic for that. She only ever used black magic in the show to find the Crystal Heart.

 

As for the murderer question: I really don't think that's how it was. The other Pinkies were only mirror images of Pinkie. They were all tied to the same soul, and were not actually separate beings. Sending them back was only getting Pinkie out of the mirror, so to speak.

[DiscordAnarchy 770]

I feel that the problem with thinking like this is that we as humans don't have something as powerful as magic to deal with. If you think about it, the mage unicorns in Equestria would all have a similar mindset. They have to experiment, sometimes on live subjects to make their magic work. Either magicians as a whole are coldhearted or this is just part of the practice, like how science uses animals to an end.

 

There were several ways for Twilight to overcome both obsticles. The parasprites did not need their very being altered in the least bit. Now that they were sent to another city, the shall devour the building materials there. Some will be coated in paint which is posionous to animals which will kill the poor darlings!

 

She didn't use black magic for that. She only ever used black magic in the show to find the Crystal Heart.

 

As for the murderer question: I really don't think that's how it was. The other Pinkies were only mirror images of Pinkie. They were all tied to the same soul, and were not actually separate beings. Sending them back was only getting Pinkie out of the mirror, so to speak.

 

Black magic, purple magic, yellow magic - the fact is that she uses her abilities for chaotic neutral instead of good. At least Discord had every ponies' interes in mind!

[Princess Periwinkle 3,774]

Black magic, purple magic, yellow magic - the fact is that she uses her abilities for chaotic neutral instead of good. At least Discord had every ponies' interes in mind!

 

Are you kidding? I think you are kidding.

 

But just in case... Are you saying that Twilight didn't have every pony's interests in mind? The whole reason she cast the spell was in hopes that the parasprites would stop eating all the food...

 

Don't throw the phrase "black magic" around. It's not anywhere near the same as any other magic.

[tehepicpony 22]

 

 

Black magic, purple magic, yellow magic - the fact is that she uses her abilities for chaotic neutral instead of good. At least Discord had every ponies' interes in mind!

Let's not forget CHOCOLATE RAINNNNN SOME STAY DRY AND OTHERS FEEL THE PAIN.... (I Would LOVE too live in a place where there is chocolate rain )

[Scootalove 10,684]

I don't really think she is a murderer at all, even though when she did ''send the Pinkie clones back'' it did look a bit violent. But all is fair in love and, saving Ponyville from a massive takeover of chaos & anarchy by the Pinkie Pie clones.

 

But, it did show how Twilight will tackle any obstacle.

 

[DiscordAnarchy 770]

Did she really? I do not think she had everypony's interest in mind. She was looking out only for herself. The entire episode was her obsessed with being presentable to the princess. When her spell failed and the Sprites were eating Ponyville, did she use her magic to make everything into food thus causng the sprites to leave? No. She just began worrying about what the Princess may think.

 

 

What do you think of your precious Twilight now?

[Dreadmallon 353]

   Unfortunately, I do believe that is open for interpretation. However, what else are the writers to do with dozens of Pinkie Pie duplicates? I know it's sad to see so many clones clones being treated as disposable ragdolls, but I'm not sure of the alternative choice.

 

   Also, I believe the ponies, specifically Twilight, were panicking when they grabbed the real Pinkie along with the rest and began to zap them. It would also explain the no-remorse or no-second-thoughts.

[Righteous Fury 344]

I figured the other Pinkies were from alternate universes, with the mirror pond acting as a gateway. You'll notice that it looks like the original Pinkie enters the pond instead of the clone coming out, which I think is indicating that no clone was made, Pinkie simply jumped to an alternate universe.

 

 

 

They treated her along with the rest of her clones as mindless drones (is that really how they see Pinkie Pie anyway? A mindless pony?)

 

 

I figured that was just Dash being Dash. *shrug*

[pinkiefan1287 610]

Well it's hard to say if you ask me. We don't know how the mirror pool works. But I don't think Twilight is a murderer.

 

Here is an idea I have. The Mirror pool works almost the same as a unicorn and it's magic. When they cast a spell on an item to change it or make a pony float on clouds, the unicorn is giving them part of her magic. The magic well despair after a while and the unicorn well recharge their magic or get it back when the spell is done. 

 

When Pinkie Pie enters the pool, the pool cast it's spell on the user and makes a clone out of it's with magic. So it is just magic with a form. When Twilights cast the spell, the clone loses it's body and the magic returns to the pool. So they aren't really living creators if u ask me.

 

Still maybe this idea is wrong, but who knows. 

Edited June 4, 2013 by pinkiefan1287

[Proton 564]

I agree with you Rainicorn, but not completely

Yeah sure, Twilight "murdered" all of those Pinkies, but we don't know if they're actually dead, or if she sent them to alternate dimensions where their existence is admitted. She didn't know what she was doing, and neither do us.

 

Therefore, Twilight may be a murderer but she may not be one.

 

This is like the biggest mystery in the history of ponies

[fimdash 1,195]

You know, I found this episode to be extremely grim as well. "Sending them back" sounds very much like a euphemism for killing the clones. It's really dark, and I think a not as dark method would have been for the Pinkie Pie clones to have been sent back into the pond somehow (like walk into the water). Also, what if they actually zapped the wrong Pinkie Pie? It's possible that one of the Pinkie Pie clones ended up taking her place. Some people have talked about Pinkie Pie being flanderized in season 3, after all. Perhaps that's the reason why. But yeah, it definitely is a morbid ending to an episode. Excellent analysis.

[Winona the Dog 1,981]

 

 

When Pinkie Pie enters the the pool, the pool cast it's spell on the user and makes a clone out of it's with magic. So it is, is just magic with a form. When Twilights cast the spell, the clone loses it's body and the magic returns to the pool. So they aren't really living creators if u ask me.

 

I would like to agree with you on some degree, but remember Twilight said her spell to "send them back" would even affect the REAL Pinkie. I don't know, the fact that Twilight's magic could affect her as well as her clones kind of proves your fact about unicorn magic is kind of wrong.

 

Also even though clones are clones they are still living, breathing sapient beings. I actually remember a quote from Start Trek that said that .

 

Anyway I still think Twilight did in fact murder the Pinkie Clones.

[FoxyCryptid 4,327]

There's a very good point not being brought up. How do we know the clones had "life" in the first place? From the way they acted it's more likely they were just automated shells that had no soul or life of their own. The only life-force they had was from the mirror pool, and Twilight released it and sent it right back to it's source. 

Edited June 4, 2013 by Shoboni

[Winona the Dog 1,981]

There's a very good point not being brought up. How do we know the clones had "life" in the first place? From the way they acted it's more likely they were just automated shells that had no soul or life of their own. The only life-force they had was from the mirror pool, and Twilight released it and sent it right back to it's source.

 

 

 

Maybe so but from a normal ponies perspective they were still being popped like balloons.

 

Well, taking the mirror pool into consideration it should always be considered that every time the Mirror Pond is used, essentially, new life is created. New life that, on a mental level - contrary to outward appearance - is not fully matured from the start, and clearly needs guidance, perhaps even something akin to a "parent"!  Long story short the clones were pretty much too young to really take things into consideration which would be understandable for something given new life.

 

As quoted from Star Trek: "Even though clones are not considered real people, killing clones is still murder."

[SBaby 660]

Well, after Hasbro censored Derpy, I suppose anything's possible.  They could have actually been killed and maybe they just dubbed over Twilight's voice to make it look like she said 'sending them back' instead of 'kill them'. 

 

It wouldn't be the first time a cartoon did this, mind you.  In the Ocean dub of Dragonball Z, they constantly used the 'sending them to another dimension' excuse to censor any killing that happened in the show, even though they were clearly being killed. 

 

In the original Voltron cartoon, they not only censored Sven's death, to look like he was injured and came back in the end, but they also censored the death scene at the end where his brother (who was still Sven in the dub) sacrificed himself to kill Lotor.  They went further than that, though.  In the American version, they actually paid the Japanese company that made Go-Lion to create new footage to be used exclusively for the American version, so they could continue the series after that episode.  It amazes me to think of the budget that show must have had.

 

It kind of makes you wonder about alot of things though.  What about the bear scene in Season 2?  Maybe they showed the two clips backwards, to make it look like Fluttershy was giving the bear a massage.  Maybe the original version of the scene really WAS Fluttershy killing the bear.  After all, Lauren Faust once said that she had originally intended for the show to be darker and more edgy than it ended up being.

Edited June 4, 2013 by SBaby

[Suzaku 88]

One thing that I found interesting was the fact that it wasn't just the Pinkies that acted out that got "zapped back".  For example, the Pinkie Pie that made fingers out of her hoof disturbed the one next to her, thus causing BOTH to be sent back.  But was that concrete proof that the disturbed Pinkie was NOT the real one?  I mean, isn't it natural to glance over when someone addresses you?  And wouldn't it be natural for a pony to be horrified by someone blowing on one hoof and having weird appendages spring out of another?  Basically, it seemed odd to me that any Pinkie Pie who so much as glanced away from the wall was automatically regarded as being a clone, even if they did nothing actually wrong.  After all, the rules were never clearly defined.

 

For me at least, this episode left a lot of questions unanswered.

 

As to whether or not I think Twilight "killed" the clones?  I believe that in a way, she did.  Her magic likely reversed the spell that Pinkie used to clone herself, thus removing them from the world.  It didn't seem like a pleasant process, and was absolutely not voluntary.  It might have been better to "rehabilitate" the Pinkies instead.  But Twilight found a quick and easy "solution" to the problem instead.

[Iridian 71]

Twilight may be a murderer, but really, what she did was the lesser of two evils. Either get rid of all but the real one, or let them continue multiplying and terrorizing the population. She did what any rational pony would have done.

 

Also, I think that the clones were a shallower copy of Pinkie Pie, capable of only "fun!" and multiplying themselves. For example, Pinkie Pie, who loves making friends, never would have forgotten Fluttershy and Rainbow Dash's names, yet her clones did.

[SuperpoweredSuperfly 10]

You have a valid point, she might be a serial killer. That makes her even better in my opinion. The other Pinkies don't matter as long as they get the original back.

[GenderIsAnIllusion 2,177]

Calling it murder is a big accusation. Those extra pinkies never existed to begin with. And it is unknown if those Pinkies even knew they were Sentient, or if they were simply acting like robots, programmed to behave a particular way by magic. I really don't consider it murder., its more or less "Painlessly sending them from existence without any trace of their previous inexistence." If that makes sense.

[Lord Bloodpool 3]

It's debatable. 

 

Under English law, the act of murder is defined thus:

 

"Murder is when a man of sound memory, and of the age of discretion, unlawfully kills within any county of the realm any person under the Queen's peace, with malice and forethought, either expressed by the party or implied by law."

 

For the sake of the argument, let us assume that: 

• Equestrian laws are the same, if not similar, to English law.

Twilight's actions were certainly conducted with forethought; the plan to discover the "real" pinkie pie may not actually have been her own idea, but carrying out the plan certainly took some conscious and deliberate effort on her part. However, it is unlikely that her actions were malicious in any way, and this is where things get a little complicated. If her actions required forethought, but were not intended as a malicious act, the question of whether her actions could be considered as murder becomes infinitely more technical; there are (as far as I am aware) no precedents of such a case to be found anywhere, so this argument becomes the business of trained lawyers.

 

Tl;dr: It's complicated.