The overimportance of going to college

[Fluffy Pinkie 417]

Alright so i'm going to school now and basically I've been thinking about this for a while it seems like everybody really tries to get people to go to college or university. But why go if you don;t even know what you want to go for or if you really can't afford it. I feel like the world is now trying to place college to high, If you don;t go to college it seems like you can barely get a job but if i spend years and money i don;t have i can get a job not thanks to my skill sets i feel but simply because a piece of paper says i have those skills. 

 

I'm really curious right now because i'm in college but i feel like i don't want to be because i don;t know what i want to do and the fact i'm worried about transfering to a university and being in debt. Why does it seem like nobody wants to actually see if you can learn a trade but is perfectly fine if a piece of paper says you can without actually seeing for themselves if you can learn said skills. Then ontop of it i thought general schools were meant for you to learn basics but why when you go to college very little classes actually have to do with your major and more on basic skills!. In the end why go to college simply to please others or because people say you need to to only wind up in debt and possibly have wasted you time.

 

I know people who have degrees yet only went because people said they needed to or just to have a piece of paper. I know for me i'm only going because i have no money and i wish to move but this makes it hard for me to want to learn anything because i'm learning things i do not care about and that i thought college for the most part was learning your future career. IN the end i'm curious about the fact that people are more focused on pieces of paper then actual skill sets!

[GhostPony750 958]

Today, a piece of paper is more important than experience, sadly.

Since the society screwed up everything, I guess the only thing we can do is to follow...

 

Albert Einstein and Steve Job left school, but they became really famous. But they had zero pieces of paper

[MichaelxXxTrixie 433]

It's becoming to available to everyone. College isn't no-longer for richer individuals, or seriously smart people they are trying to give everyone a college education. I can see why it'd be important in some jobs and circumstances, but I don't think it should affect every job in the world other than working at Burger King.

[Obsolete 681]

 

 

Today, a piece of paper is more important than experience, sadly.

 

Not sure I agree with that. I have a fancy Bachelor's Degree and several honor certificates and I'm still having a significantly difficult time finding work. I think employers value experience much more than they do the piece of paper, which sucks for me because I have no prior work experience and never took part in extracurricular activities. My toxic personality and inability to fake enthusiasm likely don't help matters...

 

BTW OP, even if you're not interested in the courses being offered you still shouldn't shrug off the chance to learn. That's how you find your passions after all.

[Dusknight Haze 161]

It's becoming to available to everyone. College isn't no-longer for richer individuals, or seriously smart people they are trying to give everyone a college education. I can see why it'd be important in some jobs and circumstances, but I don't think it should affect every job in the world other than working at Burger King.

 

It's becoming available to everyone. We're barely in the beginning of that process. Over half of my graduating class forewent going to a real university because they were just too poor too afford it.

 

To be honest, I'm too poor to afford it but I'm lying and scraping my way though because I really want to be the first in my family to actually do something in the world. 

 

But yes, there is an overimportance on college, but the way to fix is not to make alternatives, but rather make college cheaper and/or free in the western world, which is already true for the hyper-developed Nordic countries.

 

The United States actually has the budget to pay for every single person's college education but we choose not to because hurr durr military.

 

EDIT:

 

Not sure I agree with that. I have a fancy Bachelor's Degree and several honor certificates and I'm still having a significantly difficult time finding work. I think employers value experience much more than they do the piece of paper, which sucks for me because I have no prior work experience and never took part in extracurricular activities. My toxic personality and inability to fake enthusiasm likely don't help matters...

 

This, this, a million times, THIS! I lived in a super jobless city in high school and was always busy doing school-related things, so when I moved to a new city to get ready for college, I had literally no job experience and no one was willing to hire me aside from restaurants. That wouldn't be a problem if I didn't have coordination problems and severe, crippling social anxiety. I went on digging around for months trying to find a job that I could actually do that was in my travel range, and never find anything because everyone refused to hire people without experience.

 

That's why I'm still betting on my academics and my very specific field to get me a career out of college. If that fails, I'm totally fucked.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Dusknight Haze

[GhostPony750 958]

 

 

Not sure I agree with that. I have a fancy Bachelor's Degree and several honor certificates and I'm still having a significantly difficult time finding work. I think employers value experience much more than they do the piece of paper, which sucks for me because I have no prior work experience and never took part in extracurricular activities. My toxic personality and inability to fake enthusiasm likely don't help matters...

That's not what I meant!

Yes it's hard to get your first job, because every employers want job experience, which is just stupid because some people are trying to get their first job.

 

BUT... I don't know if there is any autodidacts here (people wo learn by themselves), but here's an exemple:

 

You are trying to find a job, but you left school at an early age for whatever reason and don't have any pieces of paper. But you are totally a genius in mathematics. And there is a guy who have a diploma in mathematics but he is just average. They're gonna hire the guy with the diploma. Einstein being a good exemple, you could do this before. But now you can't.

 

So technically: No diploma < college diploma < university diploma.

 

So autodidacts are screwed, I'm screwed. -.-

[Dusknight Haze 161]

*stuff*

 

There are reasons for this, and ways to get around it.

 

1. It exists because if we had no method of objective certification, you would have surgeons performing surgery without guarantee that they had memorized the complex layouts of organs, the processes necessary to remove and transplant them, nor the experience to know how to adjust for discrepancies in body types and chemistries, which would be disastrous for obvious reasons.

 

Certifications run the gamut from high school diploma to Ph.D and M.D. because they're the only way we can have a guarantee that they met at least some standard.

 

In the case of your example, the genius in mathematics may not know how to apply their vast knowledge as well as the person who is only average, but has proven that he can at least perform to a minimum in every day settings. 

 

It's like saying that because I have a great and mostly complete knowledge of the human body, I should be allowed to at least some degree to walk into a hospital and start making decisions and judging in operations? No!

 

2. "Autodidacts" are a dangerous concept in society. I am all for the idea of "lifelong learning", as cheesy as it sounds, but to be honest, you can teach yourself all you want by reading and by experiences available to you, but you will never be worth as much to society as a whole than someone who has proven that they have at least a requisite amount of capability to do what they are trying to do.

 

It's sad in a way, and it's annoying, but it's extremely necessary. Problems only arise when groups of people have few or no ways to access these certifications, like poor people and the American education system. Sure, it needs reform, but that is by no means a reason to abolish certifications.

 

In your case, are you a drop out of some kind? You can always get a G.E.D. Even national-level universities will take G.E.D.s if you prove you have the capability to learn with the best, and have some sort of experiences in other settings like volunteering and leadership too.

 

tl;dr Certifications are necessary to the fabric of society and there are ways to get back on track inside the system if needed

Edited September 12, 2013 by Dusknight Haze

[I used to be a stranger 7,988]

Ever understate the the impotence of spell chequing.

 

Sorry, joke I remembered, reading the title.

 

It is true that in the past the social generalization was that you would go through highschool to go into college to get a degree so that you could get a job. However, a degree is no longer a guarantee anymore and that's causing obviously a great deal of problems for people's expectations and wallets.

 

I went through a 1-year Certificate of Digital Animation to get a foot in the door of Video Games or visual graphics or something, and it didn't go anywhere.

Fast-forward two years, I'm still 10 grand in the hole but now I'm much more interested, and motivated, in getting into Mechanical Engineering, which is going to be a long process and one which I don't even have a plan yet on trying to afford.

Does this post have a moral? Not really, unless you have faith as I do that something will guide your life if you seek it.

[Scootalove 10,684]

I see that most people go to college so they can get their degree, then get a job. If you want to guide your life in your own direction, to college or not go to college that is solely your choice.

[GhostPony750 958]

@@Dusknight Haze,

For healt stuff, I agree that you would need at least a diploma to certify that you have the knowledge to make operations and stuff, just give the huge test without all the studying thing.

 

Well, in my case... I'm in an enriched program of some sort, where I'm struggling in mathematics because there is too much organization. When there is too much organization, I can't learn my way and I just can't follow.

 

But I have a really vast knowledge in History. I know the complete history of pirates, some stuff about renaissance and random facts in every domains. I also have a great knowledge in car history. I am currently trying to find a book about Catholic religion, sounds really interesting. Did you know that a pirate once became pope between 1470-1530? Yep, conspiracy in popedom.

 

But... if I don't pass math class, what can I do later with all this knowledge? Nothing. Nothing at all. These are some flaws in education system, which is a huge mess. And I'm very concerned... if I don't pass math, I'll be stuck with a terrible job for the rest of my life...

And I certainly don't need all these algebric equations in history. :/

 

These are the jobs I'd like to do: historian, car specialist, rally driver. And I'd like to restore old muscle cars. Barely any maths in this.

[Dusknight Haze 161]

Well, in my case... I'm in an enriched program of some sort, where I'm struggling in mathematics because there is too much organization. When there is too much organization, I can't learn my way and I just can't follow.

 

...

 

But... if I don't pass math class, what can I do later with all this knowledge? Nothing. Nothing at all. These are some flaws in education system, which is a huge mess. And I'm very concerned... if I don't pass math, I'll be stuck with a terrible job for the rest of my life...

And I certainly don't need all these algebric equations in history. :/

 

Hm. Well I don't claim to be familiar with your school system, but could you not get a tutor of some kind to assist you? 

 

Also, will it be all over if you fail a class? I failed over five classes in my Junior year in high school because one of my best friends committed suicide, and I am a biomedical and philosophy student at a pretty decent university in the United States. There are always multiple chances in life. Something that happens in school before you're 18 probably won't screw your entire life up.

 

I thought the same thing about math when I was your age (I even failed my Precalculus class in high school). Over time, and especially now that I'm a college student, I see its immense value and how you can bring math into anything, especially history. My European History teacher in high school actually used a lot of math in his lectures to talk about population growth, changing economics, and the trade of commodities. 

 

It can get very difficult, and some people aren't "wired" for math but I think you should do your best to persevere. Once you get there, you'll realize that you can bring equations into anything. In fact, just yesterday, I based an entire philosophical argument off of a mathematical example of justice that I created myself.

 

As for cars and automobiles, the engineering of cars is extremely math-heavy. You will need to know temperature physics, drag, friction forces and their equations, the differences between torque and speed in gear systems (and their mathematical ratios), and all sorts of other things.

 

I don't mean to scare you away, but I just think that you should do all that you can to learn the most math you can. It's just so.... useful!

 

tl;dr math is good even if it's difficult. 

 

On a topic-related note, most everyone has to take a math class in most western-world universities and colleges, so you might as well be prepared even if you don't like it, since they're way harder than high school classes.

[PonyBoy15 428]

Today, a piece of paper is more important than experience, sadly.

 

I have to agree with this gentleman. I was recently told about a professor at a top university somewhere here in the states. She was one of the best professors on campus and was paid very very well. Making 3 figures. But some students who hated her did some massive research and found out she didn't have her PHD which her resume said she did have. She was instantly fired. She had been working in that university for years. Just because you don't have a piece of paper doesn't mean you can't do the job.

 

I just recently graduated college and getting into the trade was NOT easy. It was because I was persistent and applied for the job more than 5 times until they finally called.  Like already mentioned, employers are looking for experience, but one may ask "how does one get experience, if every job reacquires experience?" Sometimes it's who you know but this isn't always the case. Some programs do offer internships.

 

I do believe having a college education is important, but many people have made a good living without it. It all depends on what you're going to do.

Edited September 12, 2013 by PonyBoy15

[Shanks 10,811]

The current college system is a complete scam, they promise you all these high paying jobs for when you are finally able to graduate but then when you do the "jobs" available to you are the same jobs that you had when you were going to school. Education is very important and all but when so many people graduate college and still can't find jobs with the skills they have learned then something is very very wrong here. And I am saying this as somebody who is returning to college (granted jr college) for the first time in 3 years, but am I doing so not because I think I am going to get some cushy job making a bazzillion dollars a year but because I want something to do other than just work at a job that I despise and there are some skills that I can learn there that can help me in the career path I am going into.

 

I am trying to become an author and one thing that will help me with that is creative writing and other similar classes like that, I feel so strongly about it that I am considering changing my major from History/Political Science to English. Granted most of the stuff I am going to write is going to be non fiction but brushing up on my writing skills still can't hurt. I am good but there are ways I could still improve one area I need a lot of help on is punctuation, my grammar is fine for the most part but all the different rules about where to put commas and stuff and all the various exceptions can be a bit confusing for me sometimes. The piece of paper probably won't help me but the skills very well might. I am a bit of a special case though so maybe I am not the best example but I do still stand by my point of skills being far more important than pieces of paper.

[Ghost 173]

  I still believe its important to go to university, even though it seems it's only getting more expensive.  Many careers require some sort of degree, but so many people are getting a bachelors now that it isn't what it used to be and no longer guarantees a job.  Still, its good to get an education and you do develop skills that can help you once you graduate.

 

  Even my professors have said that you most likely won't remember the majority of what you learn once you leave, and many end up working in fields not related to their major.  The main thing I think you gain from university is the connections you can make.  There are so many stories out there of people landing jobs through people they met in university, or people forming bands etc... that end up doing well with friends and/ or roommates from university.  You never know who you'll meet, and universities expose you to many like minded individuals who you probably wouldn't meet otherwise.  That's what I think the draw of places like Stanford and Harvard would be.  It's not always what you know, it's who you know, but knowing something doesn't hurt.

 

  Make sure you get involved in clubs, volunteer organizations and other social stuff your university has to offer.  Go to those parties on weekends with the people you meet.  You aren't wasting time, you're "networking"  .  Doing well in university is still important, but knowing the right person can play a role in landing a job once you graduate.

[~Master~ Button Mash 2,307]

Sometimes I wonder if I made the right choice of going to college. My career path does require training, but I feel I probably could have gone to a dedicated flight school and saved money, without having to take classes, instead of a collegiate flight school. I mean I'm barely scraping by right now...

[Fluffy Pinkie 417]

I agree that now it seems that they are making it easier for all people to go to college but still for many it is expensive, I do agree that some majors you should go to school for but for something lets say like language i feel you are better of simply taking classes and using youtube, Right now i am simply worried because of not having a major for sure. I thought of Avation (possibly means lots of traveling) or something peformance wise

[Discordian 6,013]

Unfortunately there's only two routes:

 

Go to college and get experience

 

Get a lot of experience

 

There is no third option unless you're lucky. Going to college will not guarantee you a job but at the same time there are a lot of jobs that say that higher education is optional but your really only gonna get that job if you have a degree so it's not really optional.

 

In that case you need to have several years of ass-kissing experience to get into a lot of the better paying jobs.

 

This creates a horribly vicious cycle. Without school, you can't get work. With school, you still can't get work and sometimes you can't even get basic jobs because of this "overqualification" bullshit.

 

The system is fucked in every direction on top of there not being enough jobs as it is in the US.

[Sylentmana 271]

I understand completely. I'm in college now and most of my classes feel completely useless. I think they make you take a bunch of unnecessary classes to make your time in school last longer so they get more money from you. College is rediculously overpriced as it is an many schools are raising the price.

[Shanks 10,811]

In that case you need to have several years of ass-kissing experience to get into a lot of the better paying jobs.

And that brings up yet another problem I have with the system that you even need to kiss ass in the first place, I work at a grocery store as a dairy clerk and I have the pleasure of working with a lot of hard working people but I unfortunately have also had the displeasure of working with brown nosers who were there only because they had the right connections and kissed enough ass to be there. There are supposed to be policies in place to prevent this or at least reduce the likelihood of it but they are little more than window dressing. 3 people in particular come to mind, one of them was a store manager I worked with that broke all kinds of labor laws and treated everyone like crap but got where he was because you guessed it he knew exactly what the right asses were to kiss and when, fortunetely he got his just desserts when he messed with the wrong people and was forced to resign but there are plenty of other people that fit this description in many other companies that are still doing what they do best.

 

The second person that comes to mind is the assistant manager who worked under this particular manager, he knew what the other guy was doing was messed up and the manager treated him as his lackey instead of part of a team but what mattered most to him was selling out. The punk later got promoted to manager, he works at a different store in the district now so it has been a while since I have had to deal with him. And the last person is someone I unfortunately still work with and that is a key carrier (low-mid ranked manager) who was promoted to that position in large part because of the influence of his brother who works at a neighboring store in the district. He is a classic cocky punk who thinks he knows your job better than you do, he has a real listening problem which is quite interesting considering he has practically zero experience as a dairy clerk when I have had over 4 years of experience as one.

 

Call me crazy but shouldn't hard work and qualifications be the determining factor in whether or not you get a job in the first place and not how much brown nosing you are able to do? We keep telling kids to "do you best" but as adults it seems the message is "bend over and take it" and "kiss butt and screw people and you will get to the top". I really think that we as a society should work toward changing that.

[PonyBoy15 428]

I understand completely. I'm in college now and most of my classes feel completely useless. I think they make you take a bunch of unnecessary classes to make your time in school last longer so they get more money from you. College is rediculously overpriced as it is an many schools are raising the price.

 

^ Agreed. My course of study in college was applied engineering and guess what class was a REQUIREMENT for me to graduate.

 

Psychology, yup psychology. What does that class have to do with engineering? I have no clue but I was forced to take it. I also had to tale a typing course, like WTF?! And of course, that all cost money. Many students have to take classes that are absolutly irrelevant to what they are studying. Mind you, Books are required for those classes as well.

 

Money talks, Education is a business, remember that.

[MelancholicMemory 2,022]

College is not necessary, and the overabundance of people seeking a college education undermines the value of the degree. In reality, you can be equally successful learning a trade, starting a business, or pursuing other paths in life. Seriously, don't let this illusion that you need a college degree sway you off of your path. Do whatever you feel is right to make you happy. I'm in college simply because I love education, and I plan on getting my PhD. Furthermore, my desired career path requires all of the training of college.

 

 

If you do go to college, keep in mind that we are going to have an over surplus of engineers in the future because everyone thinks that is where the money is now. Really, finding work won't be much easier for you because everyone thought of that. To some degree this will happen with computer science, but it is such a rapidly growing field that it is a solid one to go into. Even then, it is a field you can enter just by demonstrating great skill and knowledge of the field. You don't always need a degree. Psychology is also a good degree to pursue, especially if you plan to go to graduate school because the world is getting so crappy that we'll all need psychologists and psychiatrists. Same goes for MDs. Everything else is good in general, except anything with the word "studies" in it. African studies, Asian studies, Catholic studies, Italian studies, queer studies, gender studies, etc. are all useless degrees. They don't even make you stand out a little bit now because so many people are pursuing bachelor degrees.

 

College is not necessary, and I only advise people to take on all of the debt and time and hard work to deal with it if it aligns with their personal dreams and/or values. Good luck.

[Discordian 6,013]

College is not necessary, and the overabundance of people seeking a college education undermines the value of the degree. In reality, you can be equally successful learning a trade, starting a business, or pursuing other paths in life. Seriously, don't let this illusion that you need a college degree sway you off of your path. Do whatever you feel is right to make you happy. I'm in college simply because I love education, and I plan on getting my PhD. Furthermore, my desired career path requires all of the training of college.

 

 

If you do go to college, keep in mind that we are going to have an over surplus of engineers in the future because everyone thinks that is where the money is now. Really, finding work won't be much easier for you because everyone thought of that. To some degree this will happen with computer science, but it is such a rapidly growing field that it is a solid one to go into. Even then, it is a field you can enter just by demonstrating great skill and knowledge of the field. You don't always need a degree. Psychology is also a good degree to pursue, especially if you plan to go to graduate school because the world is getting so crappy that we'll all need psychologists and psychiatrists. Same goes for MDs. Everything else is good in general, except anything with the word "studies" in it. African studies, Asian studies, Catholic studies, Italian studies, queer studies, gender studies, etc. are all useless degrees. They don't even make you stand out a little bit now because so many people are pursuing bachelor degrees.

 

College is not necessary, and I only advise people to take on all of the debt and time and hard work to deal with it if it aligns with their personal dreams and/or values. Good luck.

Yeah, that's another thing. Because college is pushed on everyone there's going to be an abundance of people trying to get into college and just as many, if not more, people trying to get the same jobs making it just as hard to get a job as ever.

 

What's more is college is really only for people who have the drive and passion to do it. Not every career requires schooling and it's pointless to go to college if it's at all possible to make money off of something without it. Usually more creative endeavors such as art and writing fall into this category. A degree would help but not necessarily required.

 

I'm an...amateur writer myself. While going to school would maybe help me improve my vocabulary or storytelling in all honesty if I put enough effort into it I can get that same experience reading other books and studying the way they write.

 

Also consider that there are a lot of free resources online to learn something in certain fields. You don't necessarily have to go to school and get specific instruction to be good at something. Things like web development especially are fields that are more driven by self-learning and -interest and do not require schooling.

 

Though you're likely going to be doing a lot of free and sub-part-time work before you get anything decent.

 

We've all got a long road ahead of us whether we go to college or not, particularly for those of us who do not already have an established career.

[Dusknight Haze 161]

... Psychology is also a good degree to pursue....

 

I don't know if you live in the States, but in the US, Psychology is literally the worst possible degree to choose out of any of them.

 

It is the most studied and granted degree, by a large margin, and thus has the highest unemployment rate out of any degree-related occupations by a factor of 2. Like, it's literally over 20% iirc the study that this information was in. 

 

Everyone thinks that psychology is valuable because it gives you "insight into the minds of others" or it's just plain "interesting" but in reality not only is it useless as an occupation unless you're insanely talented at metaphorically cracking people's heads open, but most people pursuing psychology that I've either met (including people in my own family) or talked to via the interwebz are simply not good enough at the discipline (and don't even really think about it as a discipline) to make a solid career out of it.

 

In fact, I have a large helping of psychological issues myself, and so does my family, so we've gone the bout of professionals. From probably the 15+ people we've seen over the years, the best out of them were two self-starters that managed all of their things alone and did not join an office or someone else's practice. Of course, this takes a high degree of business sense as well, which is a valuable skill indeed.

 

As for your remarks on engineering, that is true in general, although there are a ridiculous amount of types of engineering. Electrical and mechanical are the ones overpopulated.

 

Civic, architectural, and biomedical are actually in decently high demand and will only continue to increase as the infrastructures of the United States crumbles, and as sedentary illnesses and other disabilities reach an all-time high, respectively. 

Edited September 12, 2013 by Dusknight Haze

[MelancholicMemory 2,022]

I don't know if you live in the States, but in the US, Psychology is literally the worst possible degree to choose out of any of them.

 

It is the most studied and granted degree, by a large margin, and thus has the highest unemployment rate out of any degree-related occupations by a factor of 2. Like, it's literally over 20% iirc the study that this information was in. 

 

Everyone thinks that psychology is valuable because it gives you "insight into the minds of others" or it's just plain "interesting" but in reality not only is it useless as an occupation unless you're insanely talented at metaphorically cracking people's heads open, but most people pursuing psychology that I've either met (including people in my own family) or talked to via the interwebz are simply not good enough at the discipline (and don't even really think about it as a discipline) to make a solid career out of it.

 

In fact, I have a large helping of psychological issues myself, and so does my family, so we've gone the bout of professionals. From probably the 15+ people we've seen over the years, the best out of them were two self-starters that managed all of their things alone and did not join an office or someone else's practice. Of course, this takes a high degree of business sense as well, which is a valuable skill indeed.

 

As for your remarks on engineering, that is true in general, although there are a ridiculous amount of types of engineering. Electrical and mechanical are the ones overpopulated.

 

Civic, architectural, and biomedical are actually in decently high demand and will only continue to increase as the infrastructures of the United States crumbles, and as sedentary illnesses and other disabilities reach an all-time high, respectively. 

I said it was good if you planned on going to graduate school and getting a MA or PhD (or any of the weird psychology exclusive ones). In which case, I am right. Just a bachelors degree is pretty useless, I know. Also, saying it is the worst is far from accurate. See my "studies" rant in my original post for examples.

[Fluffy Pinkie 417]

Basically for me it's tough, i think i'd be a little better going to school if i knew what i was going for. i have to say if you're going for something involving the arts usually you'd be better taking classes or watching videos instead of actually going to school, for something like psychology or lets say history then it might be best to go to a higher education center.