Psychology - being yourself

[Gekoncze 327]

To newcomers:

tl;dr types, please, leave this topic

I am highlighting parts which I think are important like this, so you know you should pay more attention to those => the core / root of the information. I am just trying to help you to understand what I want to say. You don't have to use this help of course. Let me know if it gets more confusing with the highlights or if I use them too much.

 

A lot of my thoughts / theories / ideas can change during the discussion, old posts are not guaranteed to be 100% in accordance with my actual thoughts. But the first post should always contain my actual thoughts (except the "original post" part)

 

I'll always mention "first post update" in my posts with a "change log" containing information what I added / edited / removed.

 

To brohoofers / followers:

I like you! It's always good to see there is somebody interested in the topic.

The first post is going to change frequently. Feel free to unbrohoof / unfollow it if you don't like or disagree with the statements anymore (or with the way I lead the topic etc. there can be many reasons to give a brohoof to a post or to follow a topic), but I would be happy if you pointed out why did you do so, so I can try to improve it. But you don't have to of course, that's your choice.

 

To moderators:

Feel free to point ponies people to this topic if they start discussing it somewhere else. (Edited 24.10.2013)

 

__________

 

 

What is the purpose of this topic?
The main purpose of this topic is to answer the questions around topic "being yourself". At the moment, I am mostly interested in question "How much do I have to change to be able to live in society?" Along with this I discuss topics closely connected to it like clopping. I have an incomplete theories answering some questions, but I need some input on it so I know how accurate / inaccurate they are. (I can't just say "It is like this and this. End of discussion.")

Another purpose is to keep information on this subject on some place, so people can just sent a link to it when needed to explain something. This might be useful for example for moderators.

 

What is the current subject of discussion?

nothing

 

Why did you create this topic? (= the original purpose of this topic)
Read "original post" part below.

 

Why do you write answers to questions before they are actually asked?

Because I guess people might be worried to ask and would rather leave the topic so they won't get embarassed by asking something 'obvious'. So I try to guess what might people want to ask.

 

Why are you mentioning all the obvious stuff in your posts?

It's because for some people it might not be so obvious, so I write it to avoid misunderstandings. Not because I would think that you are dumb or something..

 

You've put so much effort into creating this topic, but what if people were not interested in discussing it? Don't you think it would be a waste of time?

I don't think so. Even if my thread got only a few responses, moderators can always point people here when they start to discuss similar stuff somewhere else. I consider it to be successful when at least one person get some useful information here.

 

Are you a clopper?

No, but I tried it a few times because I was curious.

 

__________
 

 

Theories:

I am not saying they are accurate, they're just theories after all. I am looking for people who can either prove or disprove them.

 

Why do people dislike cloppers?

I guess that in many cases (not in all cases!) people are angry not because of the clopping itself, but because they find pictures of it all over the internet, which is caused by indifference / ignorance (I can't find the right word in english - I mean that they don't care about the others, that it might hurt some people to see the pictures) So you can see that the root of the problem isn't the cloppers, but the negative traits some of them have, but not all cloppers have those bad traits! Those traits also have people who don't clop!

 

People might think: "It would be better if there were no cloppers -> no problems. Solved."

But if you followed this logic and for example eliminated all cloppers, the root of the problem - ignorance - would remain untouched, but you would be happily sitting in you couch thinking that you got rid of the problem - the naughty pictures. Yeah, but because the root remains, after some time you will see naughty pictures of something else, or maybe the cloppers would appear again after some time. I don't have solution for this, but I want to point out that clopping itself is not the problem.

 

People are lazy. They're happy when they just connect cloppers and ignorance. No more thinking about it. And to slove the problem, they often choose the first thing that goes on their mind, which is eliminating (here especially killing, because they see it everywhere around them all the time)

But lazyness can be useful sometimes - for example in math and programming to optimalize algorithms, but generally it is not very useful. (See? The world is not black and white anymore, is it?)

 

If anybody wants to discuss it some more with me, feel free to ask.

 

 

__________

 

 

Original post:

 

Why am I writing this?

Today I had an interesting class of psychology. We discussed a very basic question: Why I am I and you are you? Why I am not you and you are not I? Throught many steps we got to the point of discussing children, why they can have some mental problems etc. so I thought it would be interesting to share some information with you, compare it to what happens in the mlp fandom and maybe discuss some points of it.
 
Thing that brought me to think about it
One of my close friends told me, a few days ago maybe, an interesting trait - one that are adults missing these days. A small child, when it has something on his mind, it doesn't hesitate and tell it to you without thinking if it might hurt you or not in some ways. I can remember this from my own experience.
 
Boring experience of mine
I was young a lot, I don't know what age. I had birthday I think, so I got some gift from my parents, but I didn't like it (it was some kind of mouse plushie), so I told them. Of course they got sad. Dad was still kinda ok, but mum got really depressed... So we went to the supermarket and bought something else. Of course now the first thing that would come to your mind is how bad it was from me saying that, but at that time I really didn't meant to hurt my parents.. I would never do such a thing...... Since that day, I never did it again, even thought I didn't like the gifts.
 
The problem
So now you might say "Okay, but it is good that you won't say that again right? You won't hurt your parents anymore." That's right, BUT! The problem is, that because my parents, since that day, can never really know if I really like their gifts so much. (Today I would carefully suggest them to buy me something else cause I know they would be alright with it, but this is just an example what can happen to some people in some cases) So they might do the same thing again - buy me something I don't like. In this case it is not a big problem, but in some other cases it can be when it lasts too long. For example, in very close relationships like love.
 
Theoretical example
Imagine you have two people, loving each other, but similar situation would happen. There would be for example a woman. (for the ones who might ask why did I choose women, I used random number generator <0;1) I said if the number is >= 0.5, I will choose man, so I pressed ctrl+t, typed python and generated random number with random.random() function, The result was 0.15488327418102021) She don't like that her husband for example, idk, wants her to go with him jogging, but she is worried to tell him that she don't want to. She might be able to get over it for some time, but after a few months/years, if she won't start to like it somehow, it would be really annoying for her. This is just one thing, but what if there were two, three, four? And now, what if the man was absolutely alright with her not liking it? (there are of course people who would do a disaster from it, I know) If the man knew how annoying it is for her, he would stop it immidietly, but he will never find out. So why didn't she told him? Of course that's because she was worried she might disappoint him. That he might leave her one day if she do it again more times. It's not her mistake. She just wanted to make sure he won't leave her or something, that he won't find some other woman who would accept going out jogging with him. This example is just exaggeration, but it shows the problem clearly.
 
Solution????????
Here comes the first word from the cursed brony phrase: Toleration
I know the background story about the phrase, but that doesn't matter. The information, which is hidden in it is very important. You should accept that you might not find an ideal people for a relationship. You won't find ideal friends. (or maybe if you really have big luck then yes, but the chance is small) So here comes the key word - toleration. The idea in brony comunity is good - let people choose what they like and don't laugh at them for liking it, but bronies themself have such problem. For example the eternal discussions about cloppers. (I know that his thing is overtalked, but it is really great example) What is the problem here? People say: "It is not normal to clop to colorful poníes." Yeah, that's nice from you saying that, but why would you care about it? Does it hurt anyone? What is normal? Here might come a handy argument from you: "The naughty pictures are all over the internet." Yeah, that's true, but it has nothing to do with people just being cloppers. You might think, and it may be true, that the more cloppers there are, the more pictures will be created. Yeah, but 1st - not all the cloppers demand others to draw new ones. 2nd - this is not problem about people being cloppers. It's a problem about people not careful about putting their naughty pictures on the internet! That is absolutely differend problem/subject/topic!
 
What is the connection to the original idea at the beginning?
It is simple. Some people might like to clop very much, but they would be worried to tell others, but that way, they might not enjoy doing some fun stuff with other people who like it, because each other won't know that the other one like it. That's the same with closed bronies. They are worried others, for example at school, might not like them and remove them from "their group". Unfortunetly, those days, there so many dumb people like that who do so - remove them, just because they are not following the social norms. What is sad is that some people on this forum did the same thing... removed cloppers / gore fans just because they didn't follow unwritten brony norms.
 
Conclusion:
So now we know the problem. But we can't make others to tolerate everybody of course, so why am I saying that? It's because I belive most of us don't want to make the same mistake. BUT! I might have critical holes in the idea and that's why I am writing this into discussion!
Try to ask yourself questions and feel free to share them in this topic! That's why I created this topic. I bet that there is something wrong with this wall of text and I would like to know what is it! How do I know it? Because I know myself...

Edited October 24, 2013 by Gekoncze

[GhostPony750 958]

This is... well... interesting!

 

I know it hurts to tell someone you don't like a gift, but I tend to be too much direct. But I'm trying not to hurt anyone, but I always feel bad.

 

And yep, social norms. Some think everyone should be the same. (even the government)

It's great to tolerate, but some still don't know that I am totally different from them. I guess they need to realize this situation before they can tolerate, if they don't, this tolerance wil be false. They act this way, but they don't think this way. (They would only follow the "social norms")

Well, it's complicated lol.

 

But thanks, I learned some stuff here.

[Scootalove 10,684]

Very interesting! It is hard to tell someone that you don't like a gift, but you could tell them how you feel without hurting their feelings. It is better to know the situation then tolerate than to not know on how to deal with it.

[AppleJared 87]

I read the entirety of your post, and all I have to say is this. While I appreciate another good thinker and seemingly intellectual (you seem to be) I can't agree with the clopping part. See, when you tell your parents you didn't like the gift, they went a bought another one that you actually liked. Sure, they were real sad for a while, but when they saw your genuine happiness it should make it all worth while. Same applies to every situation. You exchange a temporary sadness for a much more lasting happiness due to a genuine relationship with the other person. 

 

Back to your parents. When you said you didn't like the gift, they were sad, but not disgusted. But when you take something like clopping and r34 and show it to people who don't subscribe to that kind of stuff, it's disgusting. It's nasty. It's terrifying. It ruins what was once something wholesome and something that you enjoyed and now all you can think about when you see MLP is cloppers and r34. 

 

Now, I personally don't hate cloppers even though I can't bring myself to say I like the idea of clopping. However, as long as it isn't shoved in my face, it doesn't bother me. The fact is however, it IS shoved in my face, even when I politely take measures to move away from it. I can't look up a canon pic of AJ without seeing a pic with some human genetalia in action. (THAT'S WITH SAFE SEARCH, AMONG OTHER MEASURES.) 

 

For example. On YouTube, the show version of Winter Wrap Up video has this as the description:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyrAkwJ6WsY

 

That is what we call a disgrace. Little kids watch that video and see that shit. It's wrong. Again, I can deal with the fact that people do it. It's the fact that they shove it in our faces like that. Personally, I think people and words like that are the reason why the entire show was taken off of youtube mobile. Now I can't watch MLP anymore unless it's on TV. That's my problem with clopping and r34.

 

/end rant.

Edited October 26, 2013 by ~Chaotic Sky~
Censoring vulgar language

[Cocodrillo 1,565]

Mfw everyone pointing out specific examples instead of pointing out the principle which they were supposed to show.

 

 

 

 

Why.

 

Mfw everything else

 

 

 

 

[Gekoncze 327]

@ I'm glad I could provide you some hopefully useful information But read ahead, I realized something important.

 

@ Yup. Maybe it was not the best example, idk. As I mentioned, now I know I could really say it to them more carefully without hurting their feelings, but that time I didn't know it would hurt them so I was not looking for a way how to say it better way.

 

As a kid I absolutely missed the point of birthday, same applies on christmass! OMG how could I forget this?!?! ._. Why didn't anybody tell me while reading this? It's not about the gifts, but about the fact that there is somebody who loves us.. I was only taking care about the gift, not about them. I was appreciating something that had no value, just some stupid toy. I didn't value that they remembered me.. that they put some effort in loo?ing for the gift.. that they did it for me. It's not about the gifts.. it's about people taking care! That's the most valuable thing we can get! Oh my, how could I forget this... -.- So the thing that hurt them was that I valued material things over relationship :/ But why didn't my parents told me this? Maybe because I couldn't get it in that age, idk. This reminds me of one quote: "Things are being loved and people are being used. That's why the world is in chaos." And here comes the 2nd word from the cursed phrase ... love.

Finally I got the answer I was looking for. I knew it all the time.. I only forgot about it, as most of people do.. we should remind each other.

 

@@AppleJared As I said in my post, that's totaly differend problem.

 

as long as it isn't shoved in my face, it doesn't bother me

 

EDITED:

^ see? You're alright with them being cloppers. The problem is not them being cloppers. The problem is that there are some cloppers, who shove it into your face! So you should not dislike all cloppers for being cloppers, but you should dislike the part of cloppers for shoving it into your face. This has nothing to do with clopping. That's not the problem. The problem is showing stuff into other's faces when they don't want to see it. I hope I got what you wanted to say. I am also unhappy to see that suff all over the internet. Not because I would be touched by the pictures in any way, but that others can suffer by seeing it and those who put the pictures there don't care about them.

 

@@Cocodrillo Idk what exactly you mean. I need more information.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Gekoncze

[AppleJared 87]

 

^ see? You're alright with them being cloppers. The problem is not them being cloppers. The problem is that they shove it into your face! So you should not dislike them for being cloppers, but you should dislike them for shoving it into your face. This has nothing to do with clopping.

Well it kinda does at the same time. I get the point you're trying to make, and I have never been swayed so much in your direction of thought on the topic; so for that I tip my hat to you. At the same time, it has a lot to do with clopping. I'll just go ahead and be honest about it. The idea of clopping angers me. The thought that people do it is frustrating to me. I don't understand why people would attach something human onto fictional characters so they can fap to it. But I feel this way because I also believe that the people that do this could spend their time doing something better like having a social life or chasing a mate IRL. I couldn't imagine many cloppers saying that they would rather clop than have a real girlfriend (as pertains to straight men or gay women). So maybe I'm a little judgmental, but I feel this way because I think they could enjoy life more if they quit that. That goes for ALL porn as well, but I guess that's for another thread. 

[Gekoncze 327]

@@AppleJared Yup, you're right, but keep on mind that somebody likes privacy over socialization. It's true that except physical needs like water, food etc, we also have some mental needs like socialization, love or sexual needs and we can't just avoid those. Maybe some people are strong enough to suppress them, same goes with food, but I didn't go to that stuff deepy and I've never met such a person. With the information science have, it cannot confirm, nor disprove it.

Also, the problem is that some people would like to, and even tried to find a girlfriend/boyfriend, but just didn't find the right one, so.. I think in that case it would be alright if they clopped, but still were looking for g/bf.

 

btw I like you ^.^ you're not worried to discuss stuff

Edited October 20, 2013 by Gekoncze

[AppleJared 87]

 

 

btw I like you ^.^ you're not worried to discuss stuff

It's nice to discuss this with someone who doesn't have their head clearly up their anus. While I still can't agree with clopping, I can continue to discuss it and not turn it into a flame war and I appreciate that you do the same. I get that some people have a hard time getting a girlfriend/boyfriend, but even your average good looking person can go through the same thing. I should know. 

 

Even so, I don't give up and start fapping the second I can't find anyone. Life continues and I try again sooner or later. As far as physical needs, I can agree with the fact that some people feel like they need more sex than others, but that's the case. Anything that's not intercourse with another person is artificial (not counting things like bestiality [which again, is another topic in its entirety]). 

 

There's one more thing I wanted to bring up and ask you.

 

A while back I was watching some brony music vids on YouTube and I got pretty deep into a thread of videos that got less and less views. I can't remember which video it was or how to find it, but one of the video's comment section was having a debate on clopping, and eventually a non-clop asked a clopper if he would screw a horse in real life since the clopper fapped to pony-porn.

 

I promise I'm not making this up. The clopper responded that he probably wouldn't screw a horse, BUT HE WASN'T REALLY SURE. I think the worst part about this was, this comment had the most likes on the video, ranking up with about 42 likes if the memory serves correctly.

 

That means that around 42 cloppers agreed with the fact that they weren't sure if they would or would not take part of real life bestiality. Is this common thought among cloppers? Because honestly, if it is, I REALLY can't support clopping. Like, at all. 

[Gekoncze 327]

First post update! (I'll always mention this when I edit it - it is important to read at least the 'changelog' so you have up to date information)(I'll put all the general information like current discussed subject into the first post - look here for general info) It got rebuilded completely.

Changelog:

Reread the first part of post. ("original post" part didn't change)

 

 

It's nice to discuss this with someone who doesn't have their head clearly up their anus. While I still can't agree with clopping, I can continue to discuss it and not turn it into a flame war and I appreciate that you do the same.

 

Yup I'm glad you're helping me to keep this topic alive. Your thoughts also help me to get some new ideas.

 

I have to admit I was like that in the past (being angry and touched when somebody said something that was against my views) and even now at some times when I am really stressed or overfilled with feels, I can do it again (but when I calm down I am like wtf was I doing/saying?), so I try to avoid discussions when I am stressed out. When I think about it, most people are in stress all the time, so that might explain why do they do it, or maybe because of too strong ego, idk, that's not a subject of this discussion ^.^' I'm just thinking loudly.

 

 

As far as physical needs, I can agree with the fact that some people feel like they need more sex than others

 

Yup, that is important to point out. Needs of each person are different. I could hear that some tibetians don't need sex and suff like that because they can control it somehow, but I didn't learn much about it. On the other hand, there are some people who can get some side effects when not fapping (like nocturnal emission / wet dreams and some other problems (I had such issues in the past and it is really annoying)). The thing is which way do people choose to satisfy their needs. Some people don't need any porn or naughty pictures with ponies to do so, but some find it more enjoyable with it. So that's only a question of preference.

 

 

Anything that's not intercourse with another person is artificial

Yeah. I would like to enjoy that suff with another person (and many people too), but I didn't find anyone who would like to :/ but I am still searching, just like you (at least I got this from your post, correct me if you meant it generally).

(This applies on me If I don't count my tulpa Millie ^.^ she is always happy to do that stuff with me. The question is how much should this be considered artificial. I find her being equal to me (so I don't consider her as a 'thing' that helps me with stuff), so I don't consider it being artificial. I can discuss this with someone in tulpa discussion thread (just mention me (or quote this part of post) there))

 

 

A while back I was watching some brony music vids on YouTube and I got pretty deep into a thread of videos that got less and less views. I can't remember which video it was or how to find it, but one of the video's comment section was having a debate on clopping, and eventually a non-clop asked a clopper if he would screw a horse in real life since the clopper fapped to pony-porn. I promise I'm not making this up. The clopper responded that he probably wouldn't screw a horse, BUT HE WASN'T REALLY SURE. I think the worst part about this was, this comment had the most likes on the video, ranking up with about 42 likes if the memory serves correctly. That means that around 42 cloppers agreed with the fact that they weren't sure if they would or would not take part of real life bestiality. Is this common thought among cloppers? Because honestly, if it is, I REALLY can't support clopping. Like, at all.

i guess that was just a joke. If it wasn't then... o.O that would be really strange ._.'

I don't think that is common thing around cloppers, but I don't know many so I can't eiter prove or disprove it.

btw I don't think "like" is equal to "I think the same". It could mean for example "That was a good joke" or something, idk.

_________

 

I got an idea what might @@Cocodrillo wonder about. (I hope it is right. If not then please give me some more information so I know what you mean, so I have something to work with) First we need some examples to show it on to explain it to the others, so they know what are we talking about. Then, when they know what we are actually talking about, we can generalize it. Otherwise they'll just stare on a wall of text filled with data. (as I do in classes of math sometimes ) Examples are very useful when explaining something. I am always happy to hear from teachers some examples, because you can get to understand it more quickly then. Of course you cannot build everything just on examples, but they can help.

 

 

I hope (since this is kinda popular subject) that the reason only me and AppleJared are discussing it is because the people reading it don't know what more to say, not because nopony was reading it .. but whatever, moderators can always point them to this topic if they start to discuss it somewhere else.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Gekoncze

[An Old Head 4,815]

To moderators:

Feel free to point ponies people to this topic if they start discussing it somewhere else or if they talk about subjects dealing with something related to the subject (for example clopping or gore). At the moment, I am patient enough to discuss it with pretty much anyone, even with very close minded ones.

 

Hi there. We've actually had quite a large thread in the past that discussed clopping, and it had to be locked due to the heated and inflammatory nature that the discussion boiled down to. As such, this thread would be locked right off the bat as it would be likely to follow in the same footsteps, but it's apparent that the subject for discussion of this thread is changed every once in a while. Thus we ask that you change it from clopping to a different subject for the reasons outlined above, otherwise we must treat it like any other clopping thread. Thank you

[Gekoncze 327]

@ Um, okay, but wouldn't it be better to crearte a topic with special access to it? Something like if you want to write here, you'll have to have a voice or something. And in case of problems, we could just unvoice some people until they calm down.
If anybody wanted to discuss clop with me, feel free to PM me. (I hope discussing this in PMs is allowed ._.) The locked topic found, I hope I'll find some more info there for my research :3

__________

 

Flamewars... But is it because of intolerance or trolls? (propably both) The only solution to trolls, which is on my mind right now, is to not let people provoke you - that's what trolls want. So their success comes when people gets angry, and do you want to let trolls to be successful? The solution for intolerance might be a little bit more difficult to find..

Edited October 24, 2013 by Gekoncze

[An Old Head 4,815]

@ Um, okay, but wouldn't it be better to crearte a topic with special access to it? Something like if you want to write here, you'll have to have a voice or something. And in case of problems, we could just unvoice some people until they calm down.

If anybody wanted to discuss clop with me, feel free to PM me. (I hope discussing this in PMs is allowed ._.) The locked topic found, I hope I'll find some more info there for my research :3

__________

 

Flamewars... But is it because of intolerance or trolls? (propably both) The only solution to trolls, which is on my mind right now, is to not let people provoke you - that's what trolls want. So their success comes when people gets angry, and do you want to let trolls to be successful? The solution for intolerance might be a little bit more difficult to find..

 

If a user is acting out of line in this thread, they'll receive a respective warning, as per any other situation. For the most part this forum doesn't allow "special access" apart from some ground things - for instance, you could make a thread in the Debate Pit (exclusive to members with 40+ posts) but it must be debate-intensive. 

[Vinyl Scratch (Filly)™ 936]

 

 

@@AppleJared As I said in my post, that's totaly differend problem.

 

 

^ see? You're alright with them being cloppers. The problem is not them being cloppers. The problem is that they shove it into your face! So you should not dislike them for being cloppers, but you should dislike them for shoving it into your face. This has nothing to do with clopping. That's not the problem. The problem is showing stuff into other's faces when they don't want to see it. I hope I got what you wanted to say. I am also unhappy to see that suff all over the internet. Not because I would be touched by the pictures in any way, but that others can suffer by seeing it and those who put the pictures there don't care about them.

 

 

No, what you are saying here is completely and utterly WRONG. Let me make myself clearer here... I as a clopper, do NOT shove clop into peoples face, so you have no right to hate me for shoving clop in your face, because I don't.

 

What I am saying here is you can NOT hate cloppers for shoving clop in your face because the majority will NOT do that. It's like hating an entire country because on person from said country did something bad to you.

[Yellow Diamond 7,561]

Guys, let me reiterate Flipturn's point by saying the topic of clopping should be abandoned in favor of something else. We've already gone through that topic previously, and it was eventually closed. Please pick another issue to discuss.

 

Thank you.

[AppleJared 87]

I'm fine with dropping the subject or moving it or whatever. Honestly, I just put my 2 cents in and I've been done with the thread for a couple of days. 

 

My only question is of fairness. People can come on here and be all like "HAY GUYS I CLOP AND I'M PROUD" and no one turns their heads. Arguably because most of the other users on here clop as well, but that's not important. Then you have guys like me that don't bash cloppers persay but question it; and we're asked to quit talking about it because it's already been done. My question is why? How can we support fairness but only have room for one side of an argument? In fact, I wouldn't even call this thread an argument or debate, it was just a discussion. I can see that there might be a problem with talking about clopping in most areas, but this was calm and not heated. If people are cursing each other over the thread, yes it is a problem. But was there any of this above?

 

From how I usually carry myself, I was very calm throughout the discussion as well and specifically tailor-made my words to be the least offensive as possible, yet I am forced to feel as if I crossed the line just by having an opinion that is popular IRL and not-so-much on here. I can't say I'm not disappointed in the "suggestions" of the mods here, if only because this seems unfair. And I don't want to hear any BS on the fact of topic. If I wanted to talk about my "clopper pride" or something, there wouldn't be a problem here at all. 

 

To end, I'm not actually mad or anything, though that sounded like a rant. I just want this to be a tad more fair. I feel like that wouldn't be that hard either. 

[Gekoncze 327]

No, what you are saying here is completely and utterly WRONG. Let me make myself clearer here... I as a clopper, do NOT shove clop into peoples face, so you have no right to hate me for shoving clop in your face, because I don't. What I am saying here is you can NOT hate cloppers for shoving clop in your face because the majority will NOT do that. It's like hating an entire country because on person from said country did something bad to you.

Uh, sorry, this is just a misunderstanding. When I reread it, it really sounds like if I meant all cloppers ._. but I meant just the few ones who shove it in people faces (at least my theory is that the people who do so are just a few ones who are just heard too loudly -> thus people think majority does it) I wanted to say what you said, but I said it wrong.. thanks for your note I'll edit my post.

 

Since this post, I would like to end the discussion of cloppers until mods allow us. If you have any questions or if you find some mistake / inaccuracy in my text like Vinyl found, PM me. I have to agree with @@AppleJared that there was no reason to close the discussion here since there were no problems, but whatever.

 

Edit:

On the other hand, I have to admit that I've never tried being a mod or admin anywhere, so it might be much more difficult to handle everything than I think ^.^' I tend to simplify everything.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Gekoncze